dme Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Personally I would not hesitate to go to Australia if I am young and energetic to build a new career, without to many responsibilities. If I am older I will only go if I am sure of a well job, or can afford to live of savings or a passive income.What age would you define as being young or old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2mindsNoMore Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 KarinWiseThank you for your honesty, I really appreciate it.Due to personal circumstances we have delayed our move by approximately two years. But what my husband and I have also said is that when we leave SA we will be leaving so much behind and therefore we would have to make very, very sure that in the end it is all worth it. We are in our early 40's and to start over at this age will be hard. Also like DanieR said work is scarce in Australia, like it is in SA, but at least we have jobs here in SA now, so to resign from these jobs is a very scary thought. And like SandraDee I also wish I had a crystal ball to see what the future will hold, because the main reason why we are considering this big move is for the future of our children... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranvilleMay15 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 My observation so far is that with most of the complaints I see on this forum with regards to unhappiness in Aus is unfounded. All the nay sayers have so far told us about their PERSONAL circumstances that make it difficult for them to stay or go back to SA. I really think it is unfair to generalise based on your own personal circumstances. Those are your circumstances. I would venture a guess that if eg KarinWise were 1) younger - then she would not have needed to pay R1000000 for a visa! That would piss me off as well! If I lost money with the move, then I would also be unhappy I suppose. But the real question is this...All things being equal and you relocate to Oz with a 'normal' visa, you select a suitable area to live....then the chances are very high indeed that you will be happy and safe in OZ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreshStart Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Moving is tough, no two ways about it.I think we often see ourselves at our best on the Forum, not the worst. I also think it's much easier for some that others, not just in age.It's tough on family, on support, on coming to terms that you won't readily see them and that you lack that support that you may have taken for grated. It's housework and chores, saying goodbye to cheap travel, overseas holidays etc. Then there is work, even in starting in our mid/late 30's it's tough, no super, savings ETC, you are starting from scratch. You'll work longer and harder hours and for years to come.I love Australia, but if I didn't have kids I probably would have stayed in Cape Town, it's a beautiful place, has a great community, vibe and some of the best scenery around, it's no wonder it's regularly voted a top tourist destination. We were half way through paying off our home and we free of consumer debt, and lived comfortable lives and our family and lifelong friends are still there.But we DO have kids, and there is no doubt in my mind the sacrifices we've made for them will pay off, that they'll have a fair go, that their future isn't limited by the colour of their skin, but by merit, that they can dream big and choose a path of their own. That I won't have sleepless nights worrying about their physical safety etc. In having children it was a choice to lay down my life for theirs.That was, and is reason enough for us. We had other options as a Citizen, here, NZ, and through ancestory the UK, and work, the USA, but we chose here and despite everything mentioned about, have found Australia the right fit for us.CheersMatt Edited August 17, 2015 by AFreshStart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranvilleMay15 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Yes it is tough moving......and coming from CT I do agree that Western Cape is undoubtedly an excellent place to live for families. I live in Durbanville and it is beautiful here. BUT.....A few months ago we had a house robbery in our street. A neighbour saw the robbers enter the house and radioed the neighbourhood watch and police. Long story short.....Shots were fired in our street as well as flashbangs exploded. Please note...not the Cape Flats....Not JoBurg but Durbanville Cape Town.But also unfortunedly the ANC are again seriously considering decreasing the amount of provinces in SA...this will in my opinion lead to the Western Cape province merging with eg Northern Cape/ Eastern Province.....see how that affects possible voting pattern/possible change of WC ruling party of the region...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanieR Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 RedPanda Australia will still be my first choice, especially if I can be where the sun shines! If I liked cold weather Canada would be another option. You will see my post was just intended to be a warning regarding finances/jobs. DME I refer to a "young age" more in the sense of risk/dependants and flexibility to move. When you move with a wife and kids you carry a huge responsibility and need to be prepared for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcodasilva Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Hi All,I am going through the process of trying to get a PR Visa, my thoughts thus far is that dealing with the unknown of whether one is going to get a Visa or not is the worst by far. Once you have a definitive answer, then at least you can set your path, execute your plan and deal with the pains of moving to a new country, and in my opinion enjoy the excitement of a new opportunity and a safe and dynamic country. I cannot wait to get a Visa for my family and I. NB: I leave behind a MD position, small debts on two cars and a fully paid off house. I still believe 100% that Australia will bring more to the da Silva family and most importantly my little one will have safety and a fair chance of succeeding based on her skills and ability, not anything else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPanda Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I don't think anyone on this forum is qualified to do anything but speak from personal experience of how they are experiencing the move. The onus is on the reader/listener to determine how much they think they are like the person telling the story, and through that to determine how applicable the advice is to them. It's not possible to speak as anyone but yourself, unless you have undertaken a large survey and done an objective study of the results. So I think it's absolutely correct of KarinWise to tell her story exactly the way she does, exactly the way she feels. Someone who reads it should ask themselves if they are: a similar age as the storyteller, of similar financial standing, with similar distribution of family, feel the same way about weather...etcIn the end, nobody is saying: South Africa is bad(all of it, for everyone)./ Australia is good(all of it, for everyone)./ Australia is bad(all of it, for everyone). It isn't possible to say such a thing, because people are different. I like cinnamon, I love it, I think it's the best spice in the world, I would recommend every single soul eat some during their lifetime, and in fact they should dispense it freely at coffee shops! I still can't say:"Cinnamon is good." Because it's not true, my husband hates the stuff.And that is what the forum is about. Every person says whether they like Australia, and why. And the reader can use the information to help them make up their own minds.So I hope people keep telling their stories, exactly the way they experience them. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranvilleMay15 Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 I think that sounds fair RedPanda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarinWise Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Thank you Red Panda, You sound like such a fair, balanced and lovely person.It's true, we can only tell the story from our own perspective, and I would say any young person or people with young children should make the move. Australia has some great things to offer young families. I do not have a hugely positive feeling about SA (don't get me wrong-I love the place-but it is sooooo heading in the wrong direction) .It was just the wrong decision me me at my stage of life, mainly financially.My husband and I face quite an uncertain future here, and it's scary at times -actually most times.There is nothing worse than financial worries, even all the daily happenings in SA pale by comparison.So, my story is just a small warning that things do not always work out a planned. Specially when you are older.Having said that, I am looking forward to a warmer climate, I just have a sunnier disposition and more energy when the sun shines.Good luck to all you guys out there making the move-may at all go well, and may you prosper here in Australia. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Not all of us experience the journey the same way... and especially not if you are older... but for the young families... I think the future for your children in a first world country is absolutely priceless! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donovan83 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I would venture a guess that if eg KarinWise were 1) younger -I'm younger and also don't like Melbourne. If Melbourne was my first taste of Australia, I'd probably have tarred the entire country with the same brush because I wouldn't have the benefit of knowing how different each state is - the only reason I still really like Australia as a country is because I know it's not all like Victoria.Victoria isn't ALL bad, it does have great career/job opportunities, excellent night life and stuff like that. For me, it's a chapter in my life, but it's not where I'm going to settle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellfish Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) Life and business is so different in this country, and not in a good way..Very generalised statement.Melbourne may not be everyone's cup of tea but as a financial hub of Australia and not as expensive as Sydney, it will and truly be some people's only option. Edited August 18, 2015 by Shellfish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oosie Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 We were older when we came and I must admit it wasn't easy but thankfully after 7 years we can say we are really happy and settled. We still have our one daughter and 2 grandchildren in SA but we came to a place where we all accepted this is our life. We don't compare Aus to SA anymore because that make you battle to settle down in this wonderful country that opened its doors for us. We live in Ballarat about 100km from Melbourne and much colder than Melbourne but even with that we made peace and we don't let the weather play a role in our happiness. We made lots of friends, SAfrican friends and Aussie friends and attend a wonderful church. And I must just add Melbourne has been voted the best liveable city in the World for the 5 th time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donovan83 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Melbourne may not be everyone's cup of tea but as a financial hub of Australia and not as expensive as Sydney, it will and truly be some people's only option. Without a doubt, you've summarised the biggest thing that Melbourne has going for it - a potentially HUGE gap between your income (which, for most roles/industries, is similar if not the same as Sydney salaries) and your costs.Melbourne is incredibly cheap... or rather, it's probably just a little bit cheap, but Sydney is incredibly expensive. Melbourne is a great place to start off and build up some dollars by renting a cheap apartment (they're in oversupply in the CBD/Docklands/Southbank, so it's easy to negotiate a lower cost of rent), keeping costs low and earning as much as you can.Perth had incomes similar to Melbourne, but the cost of living was just sky high during the height of the mining boom. Rent was $450 a week for a place that might be $330 a week in Melbourne - although I see this is changing (Perth is getting cheaper). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXB2OZ Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I am going to stand up and say that we had our choice of countries and cities and we chose Melbourne, we did not settle for Melbourne.I am very happy with my choice. Yes, the winters are cold, but it keeps the spiders at bay, so there is definitely an upside. The winters are colder than Cape Town, but not as wet, they are warmer than New York and less grey than London.The summers are mild and lovely, the beaches are glorious, the countryside is stunning, the cultural variety is amazing, the historical buildings are enchanting, the people are warm and friendly.Just to add some balance to the mix.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreshStart Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Melbourne is incredibly cheap... or rather, it's probably just a little bit cheap, but Sydney is incredibly expensive. Melbourne is a great place to start off and build up some dollars by renting a cheap apartment (they're in oversupply in the CBD/Docklands/Southbank, so it's easy to negotiate a lower cost of rent), keeping costs low and earning as much as you can.Donovan83,I'm intrigued as to the cost difference? It is just rent? What makes it that much more expensive?We were given the choice of working/living in Melbourne or Sydney through my wife's company (one of the big 4) and chose Sydney. The rent is higher, but can't see the other costs being radically different? Transport via bus into the City and back is +- $4.00 a day. Groceries seems to be a similar costs. I guess depending on where you eat it could be more expensive, but in the CBD there are loads of places to get a great lunch for under $10 - 2 sushi rolls and large udon noodles with tempura prawn, or a killer burger and truffle fries etc. Coffee is around $3.50 a cup at an artisan roastery.I've heard Perth prices for food and coffee are really expensive though, but property prices are dropping. The going rental on a place like ours, 2-bedrooms with loft space, 2 bathrooms, parking bay and storage etc is around $700 a week but we live 8-10-mins away from the CBD, so pay a premium for proximity, but it saves on transport, needing another car, and being close to home for family, means staying later in the mornings and home earlier in the evenings, which for us are worth the added expense.CheersMatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPanda Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 From our experience on the LSD trip, and listening to what people say, I don't think (apart from rent) that there is any one major price difference item, just that everything is that little bit cheaper. Like $3,70 a day public transport cap (if I remember correctly). So I don't think it's a big thing, just a lot of little things adding up every day, every week, every month... Melbourne also has toll-routes but they can easily be avoided. Coffee might be $3.40 (which is what we mostly found). I wouldn't know about groceries, never bought any in Sydney.But I'll also be interested in hearing from anyone who's lived in both cities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I am truly blessed to live in Melbourne.. we first went to Brisbane, took us 6 months to absolutely know it was not for us, could not handle the humidity. Instead of running the place down, continously, we just moved to Melbourne! For some I know it is not easy to just move, I feel for them. I do, however feel that if a person hates Melbourne to such an extent, then they should move, or accept that this is where they make their livelihood and be thankful.If Brisbane had been the only place for us to make a living, we would all have adjusted to loving it, as well! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donovan83 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I'm intrigued as to the cost difference? It is just rent? What makes it that much more expensive?It boils down to property costs. As for rent - it costs me about the same to rent a 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom apartment with views on a high level as it did for me to rent a 1 bedroom, 1 bathroom tiny little flat in Perth. It's also much cheaper to buy than Sydney or Perth, although as you rightly mention, Perth is dropping. As lovely as Sydney is (beautiful, sunny, etc), I couldn't stomach the cost of buying/renting there - and to be honest I wouldn't buy in Sydney as I believe it's in one moer of a bubble. I doubt it'd drop much (maybe 30%?), and there are a million and one reasons why it might not.... but it's like they always say, nobody thinks it is a bubble until it bursts. Then everyone sees that the obvious bubble was obvious. Perth has its bad sides too. When I lived there it was the height of the boom, groceries and living costs were largely the same as Sydney, but rent and real estate had become so overinflated. I'm glad to see prices dropping there... I plan to go back there (for good!) in a few years, so it'll be nice to not pay boom time prices for a property. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottg Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 we don't let the weather play a role in our happiness....... ...............And I must just add Melbourne has been voted the best liveable city in the World for the 5 th time. Just read an article yesterday which supports what you said!!The survey found that people living in colder areas like Canada, UK, Sweden happen to be more happier however found no correlation between weather and happiness. Another article mentioned making your own sunshine and it all starts from within. Then contradiction to this another article states "Queensland lifestyle and the weather are conducive to happiness" http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/what-makes-happy-healthy-australians/story-fniym874-1227443868974.......but not for men.Then another talks about the golden triangle of happines: A loving partner, up to $100,000 of household income and a social activity that offers a sense of purpose is the new http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/deakin-university-surveys-reveal-golden-triangle-of-happiness/story-fneuz9ev-1226672800578Now which one is it now actually? For me the $100k and a nice cold beer sounds good! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellfish Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Just read an article yesterday which supports what you said!!The survey found that people living in colder areas like Canada, UK, Sweden happen to be more happier however found no correlation between weather and happiness. Apparently people in colder climates have more sex (being indoors more) and that's why they are happier - just a theory but it makes sense 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RYLC Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) The posts on this thread highlight a few things for me that people should consider:Truly know yourself. What makes you tick, how connected you are to your family / community, the fact that you feel like somebody when people know who you are or not etcThe cost of your visa is the price of poker. If you come later in life it will cost you more. Just a fact of life and a choice you have made.The older you are when you move, the more set in your ways you may be. Know this about yourself so that you can make allowances. Father in law is a case in point and refuses to adapt and as a result is not happy. He knows it is a better life here as a retiree (on a very low income) than it would be if they had stayed. His friends in RSA tell him all the time.Don't follow family or adult children here. Have your own reasons for moving and make sure they align with what you want in life. This was the case for my in-laws.Volunteer in the community to help with feeling the sense of belonging you crave. It really helps.If something is not to your liking then make changes. It's not the place - it's your take on it. If it doesn't suit you then move.As far as being taken advantage of in business: my in-laws migrated from Zim to RSA and were also taken advantage of. It's the law of the jungle because they didn't know what they didn't know. Did it make the Saffas bad people? I don't know. They probably didn't know that the in-laws were unaware of certain things. The in-laws were operating the Zim way without realising that there was a Saffa way.If all else fails please get some professional help with working out a new normal for yourself. A life coach, a councellor, your pastor, etc. It is not necessary to be so unhappy with your life (particularly in a first world country where anything is possible). Edited August 19, 2015 by RYLC 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPanda Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 RYLC, if I could like your post repeatedly, I would!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 I agree with RYLC... my opinion as well, I am just not so good with expressing it so well! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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