Anyone gone back to SA? How do you find it

[RICHARD-CINDY]

Hi there,

My wife and i have been in Sydney for 4 years and get our citizenship in the coming months.

We ahve had a wonderful time here but the call of Africa has been extremely strong since we had a baby.

Not having close friends and family close is challenging.

We are seriously considering moving to Cape Town end of the year.

Has anyone else moved back? How has it been? Do you have any regrets?

We know SA is not perfect but there is a soul to the country that seems to really be pulling us.

Cheers

[Donovan83]

If it makes you happy, go back to South Africa - or even go anywhere else.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Donovan83

[heidim]

I'm sorry you are miserable and I can't relate to your reasons, but I hope you find what you are looking for in Boksburg (or wherever you are going) and that you will offer South Africans who want to live here, a balanced view of Australia.

Best of luck

I think GottaGo is doing exactly that - BALANCED - not everyone is hopelessly in love with Australia. Yes, the majority of immigrants stay and don't go back. And it seems okay that everyone can have a dig at RSA, but heaven forbid that someone doesn't like everything about Oz.

I will never go back to RSA permanently (or maybe as they say: nevery say never). I like Australia, and will forever be grateful for the opportunity to give my children a better future, but everything here is not perfect. So people need to come over with REALISTIC expectations, that some people settle in very easily, others don't. And people also have to remember that not everything in RSA is bad. So people need to mourn the good stuff they've left behind in order to move on with their new lives, and sometimes people just need to vent. They just want a safe place to vent where they know they will not be judged. And if we let them vent without judging them, who knows, tomorrow they may feel a bit more positive.

Everyone who wants to go back: good luck. I hope that you will find true happiness and I'm sorry that you weren't able to find it in Oz.

[Donovan83]

Agreed, heidm.

[CherylC]

Cheryl, there are about 5000 Saffers in Adelaide. I know a few and they all love it. Frankly, I don't know how anyone could NOT like it.

Good to know that! Thanks! We can't wait to move there.

Just something to think about:

When people want to leave SA for Australia, you come across some people (maybe friends, maybe family and maybe people who just feel offended that you want to leave) who try and argue/convince you not to leave. In our case we got a whole cermon about how we musn't think that it is a get-rich-quick solution. Part of this 'cermon' included all technical jargon about the macro economics of RSA, etc, etc. Our mouths hung open! In the meanwhile we do realize (and have had MORE than enough time to think and re-thing everything) that we are sacrificing a lot to move to Oz, we do realize that it involves taking a step backwards and maybe we can work our way up. And mostly: we're not doing it to 'get-rich-quick' - where this man got THAT from, no one knows. We're doing it to have a better quality of life (crime wise - seeing the increase in crime in our area alone that newspapers don't alway report on (Muldersdrift)) and for our retirement.

Isn't this exactly the same that is happening here: those who stay behind might want to debate/argue/ convince those who want to leave Australia for SA in the same way? Maybe it is a human thing.

(By the way, this 'cermon' came from an aunt's boyfriend who happens to be a heart surgeon who is doing very well for himself here in Johannesburg. He doesn't watch TV and has no idea what is happening in the public schools and small towns. He barely aware of the newly added 16% a year electricity increase over the next three years, the tyre tax that has become a reality now, of the looming water crises that RSA is facing and that people are starting to invest in bottling companies, etc. These are things that don't always reach the newspapers).

I'd say: everyone has their own motivation to leave RSA of even Oz, but feel that you need to do as much homework as you can. It is an expensive and emotional decision either way.

[Springjock]

The phenomenon is similar, but different.

Saffers in SA don't want people to leave because its a painful validation that SA is going down the tubes. They don't want to look silly as the last ones to leave or be victims of violent crime when all of their family and friends had the good sense to leave. In some cases, it's just families reacting to the process of being separated. You are right in saying that the heart surgeon is out of touch with reality. You won't find an economist in the world who will tell you that SA is the best bet.

Saffers in Oz don't like it when fellow Saffers leave Oz because although they emigrated for personal reasons (the safety of their nearest and dearest), it's still nice to know that others think like you do. It validates the painful decision they had to make to come here in the first place. At the same time, Saffers in OZ get annoyed with other Saffers who leave here and give idiotic reasons like 'it's a nanny state' or 'it's "too" safe, I like a bit of danger in my life" because, well, no-one likes a bulsh1tter.

[Lyn]

To answer the topic - one of my dear friends moved to Perth. They had done a one month LSD and her hubby loved it - they met up with cozis and aunties etc- couldnt wait to get back here to start their new lives in a first world country. PR granted they moved over - after eight months hubby was not settling and missing SA. Everything he had whinged about he seemed to want back in his life. Packed up the family - kids were not impressed - moved back to Durban, work was not easy to come by, parents got on his nerves, he got attacked, and ..... same old. One year later they were back in Perth. He is now happy, he just had to go the long way around to find his happiness. This has drained their finances.

Some folk just dont settle - five years is an awfully long time to live in a coma. I understand, I lived in a daze for over a year, crying everyday. We had said we would not return until we had given Aus at least 3 years. The first was dreadful, the second things improved, I dont know where the third and forth went.

I dont understand this vibe thing - The only vibe I got was the jitters. I was no longer comfortable in my own home. I was in Melbourne city over Christmas - Id say it had a vibe. Chinatown, smelly alleyways, great food, street artists, music, trams, horses, Canbra is a little sleepy - but I love it that way.

I think if I was truely unhappy after five years like the Martins, I would get my citizenship, take care of my kids till they can care for themselves - and head back to South Africa to find what is stopping me from enjoying life in Aus. Guaranteed its tough on arrival, financially draining - you persevere - things do get better. You have to create your own happiness - and sometimes its not where you think it is - as with my friends husband.

[Mikej]

you come across some people (maybe friends, maybe family and maybe people who just feel offended that you want to leave)

Whites leaving SA are often vilified for abandoning their country. It is conspicuous that people leaving other countries carry no such stigma nor are they burdened with guilt. Why should white South Africans be singled out as uniquely ignonimous in this activity?

[Gizmo]

The "vibe" thing has come up before in another topic. I remember at the time that I poo-pooed the whole thing, but, after some thought, I think I understand what Gottogo means.

Cape Town is extremely vibrant and I would agree that Perth is definitely much less so. I think that this is because of two factors - the Western Cape gets most of its capital from tourism. This gives it a huge holiday-feeling which has a certain fun and playful vibe. The second factor is the people. This one is more difficult to explain - but by means of example, I will use the "Shoe-shine" man. I would hazard that most Cape Townians who spent any amount of time in the city would remember him. He had this "throne-chair" and was stationed outside Sergeant Peppers between St Georges Mall and Green Market square. I would peddle his trade in the most theatrical way, yelling "shoe-shine", telling jokes etc. He was a complete character and gave life to that part of the mall. This is not an isolated case - Cape Town has heaps and heaps of similar people who give this fabulous colourful vibrancy to the City.

In Perth, people are more reserved - the only shoe-shine character I have seen is the Perth crazy-lady. (The woman who cycles around with Aussie flags all over her bike, singing at the top of her voice and often having some heated commentary). But, in her case, its not cultural vibrancy - she really is crazy.

I think maybe the vibrancy factor has a lot to do with the African culture, but maybe I am on a completely different tangent to Gottogo.

[JaMy]

A bit off the Topic. The American Peace Corps send approximately 5,000 people overseas for a 24-27 month period, every year. Approximately 35% of these volunteers every year terminate early. They use a fairly rigorous method to identify the most suitable candidates and to limit early terminations which negatively impact on their recourses. Most immigrants don't do any sort of compatibility analysis before they move and my humble guess is that the success rate is a lot worse. Ignoring any valid reason to return to your Country of origin. We are just not all equipped to move, for some people just a move between cities within a country is an emotional experience an so much more moving Country. There will be good and bad experiences in every move. You can not just rely on your circumstances or experiences to move from or return to your Country of origin. Again, my less then educated opinion, it has more to do with how we handle these experiences which makes us suitable or not suitable to immigrate. Not all of us are immigrants, some are stayers, in their Country irrespective of circumstances and others are just travellers with no fixed address.

[bundyman]

Moved to Perth...did not settle, went back to SA for 6 years, back in Perth now.......got what I needed to get out of my system, been there done that. Second time is much better, I understand now why I moved to Auss in the first place.

[Johnno]

He barely aware of the newly added 16% a year electricity increase over the next three years, the tyre tax that has become a reality now, of the looming water crises that RSA is facing and that people are starting to invest in bottling companies, etc. These are things that don't always reach the newspapers).

I'd say: everyone has their own motivation to leave RSA of even Oz, but feel that you need to do as much homework as you can. It is an expensive and emotional decision either way.

CherylC, If I am not mistaken you mentioned that you were intending on settling in Adelaide. Australia has also seen a huge increase in utilities, especially electricity. In fact Adelaide (South Australia) rates as one of the most expensive places IN THE WORLD for electricity. http://www.adelaiden...3-1226305741810

"Household electricity prices in Australia have risen by more than 40 per cent since 2007, and are projected to rise by another 30 per cent by 2013-14," he said.

As for bottled water, it's all us Ozzies drink. Most Oz cities have some form of water restrictions Not for drinking but for watering garden, washing car etc), even if you have a borehole.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Johnno

[Fish]

CherylC, If I am not mistaken you mentioned that you were intending on settling in Adelaide. Australia has also seen a huge increase in utilities, especially electricity. In fact Adelaide (South Australia) rates as one of the most expensive places IN THE WORLD for electricity. http://www.adelaiden...3-1226305741810

As for bottled water, it's all us Ozzies drink. Most Oz cities have some form of water restrictions Not for drinking but for watering garden, washing car etc), even if you have a borehole.

Hi Johnno, while not wanting to totally invalidate your point just a note that many of these "most expensive in the world" articles we are seeing lately are not factually correct.

They usually base the comparison solely on exchange rate ignoring local wages so they are not a true comparison of percentage of salary spent in each country.

Because Australia's exchange rate has climbed hugely against other major currencies (due to AUD rises and other currency slumps) it suddenly appears like Australia has got 50% dearer in these exchange rate comparison studies even when the percentage of salary we are spending on something has not changed at all. It can be very misleading.

[Johnno]

Fish, I agree. Whilst making direct comparisons one does need to take rate of exchange into consideration but there's no disputing that electricity costs have increased on par, if not more in Australia than most other countries. When a report states that electricity (for example in Perth) has increased 30%, they're not comparing it with overseas prices but rather what the same unit of electricity cost in the same city, a few years earlier. I merely mentioned the cost of electricity because CherylC had raised it as a concern for what appears to be ever increasing costs in SA. Fact is, electricity has become more expensive the world over, even UK is complaining bitterly about these increasing costs.

edit: Fish, another thing to consider is that not everyone in Australia earns "big bucks". I feel for the pensioners who are on fixed government pensions. Here's a quote (comment) from the article that I linked.

I live in South Australia. There is 4 people in my home. I do not have expensive pools or luxury televisions and expensive things in my home that would cause drastic electricity consumption... but I forked out just over $900 for my last quarterly bill. I am a single parent and a university student and struggling to save what little money I can to get nice things for myself and my children but I had to hand it all over to the electricity company 2 weeks ago. I know to some it might not sound like much .....but then again I dont get much.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Johnno

[Johnno]

Skype wasn't going to be much use for me when I received the call to say my mother had terminal cancer and was given "weeks" to live. Thankfully I was able to fly home immediately (not knowing for how long I would need to be there) and she passed away just short of 3 weeks later.

I have been in Australia for 5 years next month and not a day goes by without me wishing I was back home. I feel like I am stagnating here and I need the joy & vibrancy that is life in Cape Town. Living here, for me, is like being in a coma.

I'm quite sure Richard & Cndy won't post here again because everyone will tell them they are mad, irresponsible and stupid for moving home. Don't bother telling me that. I know where I want to be. Watching my mother die made me realise I am not afraid of dying, but I am afraid of NOT living the life I need to.

It is amazing how few people REALLY post how they feel once they get here. Have you noticed?

Anyway, good luck to you all.

About a year after arriving in Oz I was having dinner with clients in Melbourne. One of the Aussie guys asked me how I was enjoying Oz and if I managed to go 'home' for visits? I said that home was in Oz. He looked at me and said "nah mate, home is where your mother is". That night I booked tickets for our first holiday "back home" and since then it's become tradition, we go home once a year! It feels good and trust me, home really is where your mother is?

Edited January 11, 2013 by Johnno

[Fish]

Fish, I agree. Whilst making direct comparisons one does need to take rate of exchange into consideration but there's no disputing that electricity costs have increased on par, if not more in Australia than most other countries....

Yes, I wanted to particular address that link and those inaccurate headlines, nothing more. I hear people in various countries complaining of steeply rising utilities on various forums but haven't studied whether Australia's prices have risen more or less than other countries so wouldn't even like to speculate on that. They certainly have risen though.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Fish

[Emille]

i find the price of utilities in australia quite frankly shocking

i wouldnt be surprised if its the most expensive in the world

in fact, most things in australia are the most expensive in the world

uk was dirt cheap compared to aus

Edited January 11, 2013 by Emille

[Emille]

but to get back to the topic - i am going to south africa soon - and my am really SCARED - scared of sleeping at night

i even requested rates of (i) guard at the house and (ii) bodyguards... if only i could afford it (R6000 to have a guard at night at the house for a month..!)

I am not used to watching my back whilst awake and asleep anymore

wish my parents could visit me every here in Aus - i wouldve never gone back again

i know i am paranoid - but that does not mean nobodys following me

[Springjock]

Kinda puts the price of utilities in perspective eh boet? We don't earn big bucks here and I can't say I have ever sweated a utility bill. However in SA, I used to dread the totally unfair R10k electricity bill I could expect each July.....

[Johnno]

but to get back to the topic - i am going to south africa soon - and my am really SCARED - scared of sleeping at night

i even requested rates of (i) guard at the house and (ii) bodyguards... if only i could afford it (R6000 to have a guard at night at the house for a month..!)

I am not used to watching my back whilst awake and asleep anymore

wish my parents could visit me every here in Aus - i wouldve never gone back again

i know i am paranoid - but that does not mean nobodys following me

don't be silly Emille! I've just come back from CT (yes the plane was packed both ways) and other than attending a friends fathers funeral, we had a joll.

[CherylC]

(By the way, this 'cermon' came from an aunt's boyfriend who happens to be a heart surgeon who is doing very well for himself here in Johannesburg. He doesn't watch TV and has no idea what is happening in the public schools and small towns. He barely aware of the newly added 16% a year electricity increase over the next three years, the tyre tax that has become a reality now, of the looming water crises that RSA is facing and that people are starting to invest in bottling companies, etc. These are things that don't always reach the newspapers).

@ Johnno: If you put my quote into context as it was intended in my original comment, you'd see that I was not comparing utility bills but trying to get the point across that some people can turn a blind eye to what is happening in the country they are trying to defend. I am very aware of general electricity bill increases, and people drinking bottled water all over the world - this guy wasn't.

As for the Ozzies drinking bottled water, I have one question: is it also due to a failing infrastructure (like in SA) OR is it because of drought and water shortages? This point was also part of aforementioned comment and not because I'm 'in the dark' about Ozzies also drinking bottled water.

How soon are you returning to SA? It still remains your choice in the end whether you stay or return and I hope you and your family will be happy soon!

[Johnno]

Kinda puts the price of utilities in perspective eh boet? We don't earn big bucks here and I can't say I have ever sweated a utility bill. However in SA, I used to dread the totally unfair R10k electricity bill I could expect each July.....

Crikey Springjock, R10K, was that for a month? I have a house in CT, not a mansion but average size with pool and a separate flat. It costs us (6 people, 4 adults 2 kids) R850 per month and that was as recent as Nov last year! My brother has a bigger house with pool etc and he tells me that he spends about R1,000 per month on electricity.

[Johnno]

(By the way, this 'cermon' came from an aunt's boyfriend who happens to be a heart surgeon who is doing very well for himself here in Johannesburg. He doesn't watch TV and has no idea what is happening in the public schools and small towns. He barely aware of the newly added 16% a year electricity increase over the next three years, the tyre tax that has become a reality now, of the looming water crises that RSA is facing and that people are starting to invest in bottling companies, etc. These are things that don't always reach the newspapers).

@ Johnno: If you put my quote into context as it was intended in my original comment, you'd see that I was not comparing utility bills but trying to get the point across that some people can turn a blind eye to what is happening in the country they are trying to defend. I am very aware of general electricity bill increases, and people drinking bottled water all over the world - this guy wasn't.

As for the Ozzies drinking bottled water, I have one question: is it also due to a failing infrastructure (like in SA) OR is it because of drought and water shortages? This point was also part of aforementioned comment and not because I'm 'in the dark' about Ozzies also drinking bottled water.

How soon are you returning to SA? It still remains your choice in the end whether you stay or return and I hope you and your family will be happy soon!

Hi CherylC, it's difficult to generalise and since I've only lived in CT, Perth and Brisbane I can only comment on those cities. Perth water has quite a high lime content (as in limestone) and it really should be filtered. After a few weeks the inside of the kettle is coated with lime scale, same for glass shower doors.So we choose not to drink it unless it's been filtered. Brisbane house had water filters fitted on the main water supply to the house so I can only assume that the previous owners did it for a reason. My CT house has no filters and the water tastes just fine, we drink straight from the tap. It does not stain the glass shower doors and I'm not aware of anyone's kettle getting scaled up by the water. Having said that Australia is a huge country and not only does weather change form region to region but so does the cost and quality of the utilities change.

Quite honestly, after 12 years in Oz I've learnt from these forums that one should never mention anything about SA in a positive light because straight away you will be accused of defending SA and then people want to know why you don't return. These sites are mostly frequented by people who are in the process of wanting to leave SA or they've recently arrived in their new country.......both come to these discussions to seek confirmation that they have made, or are about to make the right choice. It's really quite simple. If it feels right then it is right, don't worry about what other people think or do.

[Emille]

don't be silly Emille! I've just come back from CT (yes the plane was packed both ways) and other than attending a friends fathers funeral, we had a joll.

thats good to know!!!!! thats the one thing when you dont live there anymore is you get so used to safety and the stories you hear from SA makes you think the place is 'on fire'

Edited January 11, 2013 by Emille

[Emille]

Kinda puts the price of utilities in perspective eh boet? We don't earn big bucks here and I can't say I have ever sweated a utility bill. However in SA, I used to dread the totally unfair R10k electricity bill I could expect each July.....

i left sa 4 years ago so never had R10k electricity bills. OK here some of my bills (not just utility):

electricity 240 (every 2 months) = R2200 x 6 a year

gas 200 (every 3 months) = R1800 x 4 a year

water use 200 (every 3 months) = R1800 x 4 a year

water annual 228 (every 3 months) = R2100 x 4 a year (this is for the 'privilage to use water only - no drop used yet)

phone & internet 75 monthly = R700 x 12 a year

if you want a plumber, your fridge, your automatic gate or whatever sorted it cost you $150-$250 callout and sometimes $30 every 15 mins after that!

car registration 292 (every 6 months) = R2600 x 2 a year

property tax 317 (every 3 months) = R2900 x 4 a year

medical insurance (hospital plan only) - $210 monthly = R1900 x 12 a year (on top of this, my normal doctors bill/excess was $1700 in 2012 and we are a healthy family)

life insurance - 172 monthly = R1500 x 12 a year

wont tell you what my mortgage is - put it this way I can buy a house in one of CT's best suburbs with that

a dread every time i see a utility bill in the post

eating out has become an absolute luxury for us - easily $120-$200 for a relatively 'average' restaurant - a far cry from our Michelin star meals in Europe and the 'top 10' in SA

Edited January 11, 2013 by Emille

[Johnno]

thats good to know!!!!!

@Emille, seriously though, it's nothing to worry about. We travel to CT quite regularly and one thing we never do is take our personal safety fore-granted. Just as we're about to leave I give my daughter (and wife) a little talk (reminder) about personal safety, like leaving things like handbags in the car in view of everyone etc. A few weeks ago (here in Perth) my daughter left her purse on the back seat of my car. I told her to hide it and she said but why, that there was no money in it. I explained that someone wanting it would smash the window before they found it empty. Please don't think I'm being patronising but a little attention to simple details can save you a lot of heartache and hassle. I've also taken security at our CT home seriously. Certainly not over the top but we pay attention to details that we'd probably not worry about in Oz. Don't be paranoid, just be careful and mindful of your personal security and have fun.

PS! We were so stoked to be in CT with the (twede nuwe jaar) carnival. Now that's a vibe unique to CT