Anyone gone back to SA? How do you find it

[RICHARD-CINDY]

Hi there,

My wife and i have been in Sydney for 4 years and get our citizenship in the coming months.

We ahve had a wonderful time here but the call of Africa has been extremely strong since we had a baby.

Not having close friends and family close is challenging.

We are seriously considering moving to Cape Town end of the year.

Has anyone else moved back? How has it been? Do you have any regrets?

We know SA is not perfect but there is a soul to the country that seems to really be pulling us.

Cheers

[AllisonW]

Wow, what a debate.

We have been here just shy of seven months and i have been candid about how difficult this move was for me emotionally. I had my really hard days. Really hard. But that said, I would never ever go back to South Africa. My husband just returned from an emergency visit when his father passed away and I felt only relief when it was over. It was remarkable for me that he phoned me the day after he arrived and told me he wanted to come home, as in Melbourne.

I am amazed at some of the animosity that this kind of topic brings up. My view is simple -

1. The decision to live anywhere in the world is a personal one.
   
2. However, as a parent I could never responsibly take my kids back to SA. It would be simply wrong of me. They could never have the life there that they have here. Full stop.
   
3. I knew it was going to be hard. It's the price i know i will pay. I miss some of the vibe of SA, the family and friends etc but I am an adult. I am a mother. I cant put my children's safety behind my desires. It sucks. But its life.
   
4. I have had my moments with australia and australians but its just part of the process. What could make someone so unhappy that they would go through this whole process and then go back??? My mind boggles! You are in Australia and unfortunately you need to change and fit in, while still being as true to yourself as possible.
   

But all that said if you need to return, then you should. Its just sad when i think of friends and family of mine who would give anything to be here.

[CherylC]

Yes, but there are only little pockets of normality left, that's the point.

They say you can't polish a turd, but you can certainly roll it in glitter - which is what many Saffers are trying to do, like the 'good news' websites. The mere fact that these sites are prompted to exist, tells you everything you need to know. Sad but true.

I agree, yes, there are places (like Cape Town) where things are working. Isn't Cape Town's town council the best in South Africa? Nevermind, it still is run by a council that focuses on their goals and reaches them! Cape Town is also one of our biggest tourist destinations and will be treated as the "face of South Africa" - wish more towns/cities were run like it.

Sadly, Cape Town is not at all a fair and realistic representation of all towns and cities in the rest of South Africa.

[Renny]

I know that the cost of electricity varies around SA and I'm not really that familiar with Gauteng but I have a friend in Boksburg with a reasonable size house, pool etc. I'll ask him what his average monthly electricity bill is.

BTW, my rates in Perth is $2,104 for 12 months and I still have to cut the verge! How does that compare to rates in SA?

my parents live in PE and they pay about R700 for rates, have to cut the verge, clean the sidewalk, pick up the litter in the park accross the road, wait 2 months for them to cut the weeds on the park, wait 3 months for the street light bulb to be replaced, dont have weelie bins for rubbish and have to clean up after the dogs and the bergies ripped open the black bags in search of food, leaving the weeks rubbish in the street. If your rubbish collection day falls on a public holiday,they might come or might not come. Then you ahve to take the drive to the dump to dispose the garbage yourself.

We in cape town, so its not so bad here. . . Jippe for the DA

[Sibella]

With the off topic topic of waste... I so miss the school lunches provided in the UK - proper cooked meals by lovely dinner ladies or in summer sandwiches, salads and fruit with no waste at all!

I hate the waste at schools with all the packaged stuff going into each and every lunchbox. Will try this year to bake more of my own stuff to reduce packaging waste.

But love the free tap water available in Melbourne where ever one goes. No longer do I have to be embarrassed to ask for tap water!

[dazzmatazz]

It is quite interesting to read the threads within threads of this post.

I want to add one thing, about 5 pages ago the authors of the post said that they had been back to Cape Town for a visit and had pretty much decided to stay in OZ.

[rozellem]

I want to add one thing, about 5 pages ago the authors of the post said that they had been back to Cape Town for a visit and had pretty much decided to stay in OZ.

Yip, Richard and Cindy are still alive and well in Sydney. I believe they are going to have another baby soon too. I think when there are kids in the mix one gets to a point where you (for a brief moment) weigh up living close to grandparents vs living in safety. I cant lie and say it has never crossed my mind.

[Springjock]

I've just watched the Joe Rogan interview on South Africa (p12 on this thread).

Apart from the 'Mad Max cars' reference (WTF?) the rest is pretty accurate. Sometimes it takes an outsider to point out how crazy things are in SA.

[Emille]

I've just watched the Joe Rogan interview on South Africa (p12 on this thread).

Apart from the 'Mad Max cars' reference (WTF?) the rest is pretty accurate. Sometimes it takes an outsider to point out how crazy things are in SA.

maybe he meant the minibus taxis (which would be pretty accurate)

[Springjock]

Ha! Yes of course. I hadn't thought of that!

[RICHARD-CINDY]

Hi all

Sorry not been back to this topic in a while. Seems I am the only one

As a summary have not gone back to SA. CT is beautiful but there are no jobs there and to be honest we have really settled here now. Cindy has an awesome friend base and is happy. Chloe is now 22 months and a lot easier.

We have a new baby boy due in 4 weeks. I am sure there will be present significant challenges but we are considering getting an au pair for 6 months.

Separately we are flying to Brisbane this Friday as I have been offered an amazing job opportunity. Timing is far from ideal and I know will upset the apple cart in terms of feeling settled but we need to go see Brisbane and the suburbs and see if we can make a go of it.

Sure we still miss family. That will never change. But Australia is home. We have our citizenship ceremony coming up in February just to make it official.

All the best

[Gizmo]

Hi all

Sorry not been back to this topic in a while. Seems I am the only one

As a summary have not gone back to SA. CT is beautiful but there are no jobs there and to be honest we have really settled here now. Cindy has an awesome friend base and is happy. Chloe is now 22 months and a lot easier.

We have a new baby boy due in 4 weeks. I am sure there will be present significant challenges but we are considering getting an au pair for 6 months.

Separately we are flying to Brisbane this Friday as I have been offered an amazing job opportunity. Timing is far from ideal and I know will upset the apple cart in terms of feeling settled but we need to go see Brisbane and the suburbs and see if we can make a go of it.

Sure we still miss family. That will never change. But Australia is home. We have our citizenship ceremony coming up in February just to make it official.

All the best

So glad to hear that you guys managed to settle! I am sure that this post will give hope to those struggling to reconcile the move! Thanks so much for the update.

[Johnno]

Hi all

Sorry not been back to this topic in a while. Seems I am the only one

As a summary have not gone back to SA. CT is beautiful but there are no jobs there and to be honest we have really settled here now. Cindy has an awesome friend base and is happy. Chloe is now 22 months and a lot easier.

We have a new baby boy due in 4 weeks. I am sure there will be present significant challenges but we are considering getting an au pair for 6 months.

Separately we are flying to Brisbane this Friday as I have been offered an amazing job opportunity. Timing is far from ideal and I know will upset the apple cart in terms of feeling settled but we need to go see Brisbane and the suburbs and see if we can make a go of it.

Sure we still miss family. That will never change. But Australia is home. We have our citizenship ceremony coming up in February just to make it official.

All the best

Good to hear all is going well! As a matter of interest, will you retain your SA citizenship?

[RICHARD-CINDY]

I already have dual citizenship with a uk passport and am familiar with the process of getting approval. It is fairly straightforward albeit takes 6 months to get a reply. We applied for approval in feb 12 and got it in oct12. We did not want to,give up something we did not have to. Plus it makes getting through immigration easier when we go on holidays to SA.

Cheers

[Lyn]

Richard-Cindy

I am so pleased to hear you are all happy and settling. I believe patience is key - eventually good things come.

All the best with the job offer and bub number two.

[AndreaL]

Good to hear Richard and Cindy, and thanks for sharing your feelings, so that people going through similar emotions know that at different stages in the process it can be quite difficult, but does change.

Congrats on the citizenship and the soon to follow new bub.

[SaffaRoo]

Hi There

We are looking to move over to Australia in early 2013, so quite interesting to read everyone’s comments about potentially coming back to SA.

We have really struggled with our decision to leave SA (we love it here). My wife and I both have really good, high paying jobs. We live in a beautiful secure estate, domestic help, drive expensive cars AND have no debt to our name. Most importantly we have two beautiful children...so one could say that we are living the SA "dream".

BUT...things in SA are deteriorating little-by-little on a daily basis and this slow decline is the problem. It’s happening slowly so one tends not to over react and learn (sadly) to live with it. I have been so patient with SA and have hoped that things will improve, but they never have and sadly I don’t think they ever will. The fact is that virtually all countries to the north of us are in decline in some way or another.

Some of our reasons for leaving

1. Infrastructure is falling apart. Just watch Carte Blanche and read the news. The water system is on the verge of collapse and they need in the region of R670bn to fix it. Guess who will pay for it – the few remaining law abiding citizens that actually still pay for their municipal services. The masses will just carry on using water for free. Municipalities are broke and mismanaged and I believe this will get worse. Most municipalities (bar the DA run Western Cape) never get clean audits and are rife with corruption.
   
2. BEE / AA. Don’t be fooled, this is a BIG concern for those seeking future employment and those with kids. I work in a large corporate environment (+25,000 staff) and they are not employing white people at all. I have seen exceptionally well qualified people being turned away simply because of the colour of their skin, which is blatant racism. This in combination with the declining job vacancy rate is a recipe for worrying times ahead. In our division alone we have retrenched / not replaced 2000 people because of cost cutting. This cost cutting will continue so as to absorb the massive electricity hikes, water hikes etc etc.
   
3. Remember all the citizen uprisings that happened in 2012 which caused governments to be ousted and countries to be ungovernable? Well, I am getting an uneasy feeling that SA is heading down that same path (maybe not to the same extent though). The masses are unhappy with most everything and they are taking to the streets in violent protests. The strikes will be resolved for now, but they will rear their ugly head again year after year and become more and more violent.
   
4. As a white person you are made to feel guilty about everything you own, your job, the schools your kids go to etc.
   
5. Litter litter everywhere which shows how proud the masses are to live in SA. Very sad.
   
6. The Rand will continue to weaken. International investors have pulled out more money out of SA than has been invested in 10 years. Foreign buyers will diminish – they would rather buy from South America and other BRICS countries that can offer some form of stability.
   
7. Quota systems at Universities. The institutions will deny it, but it is rife. I know this from people working at various tertiary institutions. People with no distinctions are getting into courses above those (white) with 6 distinctions based purely on colour. This Quota system is becoming like a production line to protect AA candidates at all levels of their lives, from education to jobs etc. This in combination with the absurdly strict labour laws will protect these employees even if they can’t do the job.
   
8. Inflation is NOT 5.5% as the Reserve bank quotes. Its more like 14%. Do yourself a favour, create an excel spreadsheet showing your net salary every year for the next 20 years. Do the same with your monthly costs (using inflation of 10%). You will be shocked to see that you will eventually run out of money. Some people in my dept will have no money in 5 years. If you are part of the masses then fear not as you have free medical, free schooling, free water, free electricity, free rates and becasue you belong to a union you will be guarenteed an annual increase of 10%. Lovely!
   

I would rather be "poor" in a rich stable country than rich in country that is falling apart.

And my list could go on.

At the end of the day the choice is yours, but it would be so sad for you to move back to SA only to see your kids emigrate somewhere when they are older.

Best of luck

Edited January 15, 2013 by SaffaRoo

[DanieR]

Well written and unfortunately 100% SPOT ON Saffaroo.

[team44]

Perfectly said..couldn't agree more

[mistermoose]

Hi There

We are looking to move over to Australia in early 2013, so quite interesting to read everyone’s comments about potentially coming back to SA.

We have really struggled with our decision to leave SA (we love it here). My wife and I both have really good, high paying jobs. We live in a beautiful secure estate, domestic help, drive expensive cars AND have no debt to our name. Most importantly we have two beautiful children...so one could say that we are living the SA "dream".

BUT...things in SA are deteriorating little-by-little on a daily basis and this slow decline is the problem. It’s happening slowly so one tends not to over react and learn (sadly) to live with it. I have been so patient with SA and have hoped that things will improve, but they never have and sadly I don’t think they ever will. The fact is that virtually all countries to the north of us are in decline in some way or another.

Some of our reasons for leaving

1. Infrastructure is falling apart. Just watch Carte Blanche and read the news. The water system is on the verge of collapse and they need in the region of R670bn to fix it. Guess who will pay for it – the few remaining law abiding citizens that actually still pay for their municipal services. The masses will just carry on using water for free. Municipalities are broke and mismanaged and I believe this will get worse. Most municipalities (bar the DA run Western Cape) never get clean audits and are rife with corruption.
   
2. BEE / AA. Don’t be fooled, this is a BIG concern for those seeking future employment and those with kids. I work in a large corporate environment (+25,000 staff) and they are not employing white people at all. I have seen exceptionally well qualified people being turned away simply because of the colour of their skin, which is blatant racism. This in combination with the declining job vacancy rate is a recipe for worrying times ahead. In our division alone we have retrenched / not replaced 2000 people because of cost cutting. This cost cutting will continue so as to absorb the massive electricity hikes, water hikes etc etc.
   
3. Remember all the citizen uprisings that happened in 2012 which caused governments to be ousted and countries to be ungovernable? Well, I am getting an uneasy feeling that SA is heading down that same path (maybe not to the same extent though). The masses are unhappy with most everything and they are taking to the streets in violent protests. The strikes will be resolved for now, but they will rear their ugly head again year after year and become more and more violent.
   
4. As a white person you are made to feel guilty about everything you own, your job, the schools your kids go to etc.
   
5. Litter litter everywhere which shows how proud the masses are to live in SA. Very sad.
   
6. The Rand will continue to weaken. International investors have pulled out more money out of SA than has been invested in 10 years. Foreign buyers will diminish – they would rather buy from South America and other BRICS countries that can offer some form of stability.
   
7. Quota systems at Universities. The institutions will deny it, but it is rife. I know this from people working at various tertiary institutions. People with no distinctions are getting into courses above those (white) with 6 distinctions based purely on colour. This Quota system is becoming like a production line to protect AA candidates at all levels of their lives, from education to jobs etc. This in combination with the absurdly strict labour laws will protect these employees even if they can’t do the job.
   
8. Inflation is NOT 5.5% as the Reserve bank quotes. Its more like 14%. Do yourself a favour, create an excel spreadsheet showing your net salary every year for the next 20 years. Do the same with your monthly costs (using inflation of 10%). You will be shocked to see that you will eventually run out of money. Some people in my dept will have no money in 5 years. If you are part of the masses then fear not as you have free medical, free schooling, free water, free electricity, free rates and becasue you belong to a union you will be guarenteed an annual increase of 10%. Lovely!
   

I would rather be "poor" in a rich stable country than rich in country that is falling apart.

And my list could go on.

At the end of the day the choice is yours, but it would be so sad for you to move back to SA only to see your kids emigrate somewhere when they are older.

Best of luck

One of the best summaries of the situation we find ourselves in I've ever read. Thank you for writing it.

Even the mines are starting to close down:

http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Amplats-job-cuts-is-dangerous-ANC-20130115

Best of all, the article quotes the mining minister as being 'shocked'. What's shocking is that the big money has lasted here this long, given the violent strikes, a ruling party that 'doesn't believe in nationalisation of mines' but does believe in 'sharing the profits', and a society where the majority of the country have just voted a president back into power that has spent more time defending himself in court (and the court of public opinion) than in his office.

[Springjock]

SaffaRoo, who says you are going to be 'poor' here? If you are a successful, driven person you will live an even better life here. Too many Saffers have the mindset that a move here is a negative thing from a lifestyle aspect. Sure, it takes time to settle in and build new contacts etc, but there is no reason you can't economically successful in Australia.

[HansaPlease]

I would rather be "poor" in a rich stable country than rich in country that is falling apart.

This is a good attitude to have, but make sure you actually mean it. Many of the people that struggle to settle in Aus are ones who were wealthy in SA. Of course I'm generalising, but there is truth in this.

[SaffaRoo]

SaffaRoo, who says you are going to be 'poor' here? If you are a successful, driven person you will live an even better life here. Too many Saffers have the mindset that a move here is a negative thing from a lifestyle aspect. Sure, it takes time to settle in and build new contacts etc, but there is no reason you can't economically successful in Australia.

I had poor in "quotes" so didnt mean it literally. I was just trying to make a point about what is important.