Anyone gone back to SA? How do you find it

[RICHARD-CINDY]

Hi there,

My wife and i have been in Sydney for 4 years and get our citizenship in the coming months.

We ahve had a wonderful time here but the call of Africa has been extremely strong since we had a baby.

Not having close friends and family close is challenging.

We are seriously considering moving to Cape Town end of the year.

Has anyone else moved back? How has it been? Do you have any regrets?

We know SA is not perfect but there is a soul to the country that seems to really be pulling us.

Cheers

[Erik]

Make sure you get citizenship first - don't want to get here and then decide you have actually left the place behind a while ago.

It's going to be challenging coming back here, but each to his own. Good luck.

[RICHARD-CINDY]

Yeah that is our intention. Get citizenship and then make the decision. It is really difficult and there are pros and cons of each.

[Short&Tall]

Have you been able to have a LSD in the other direction?

A friend sold up (from the UK) and moved back shortly after having a kid - they were after the larger spaces (they had been living in London).

They had only been back on holiday prior to that and it was a bit of a shock to the system.

The bigger spaces they were after scared them when they were looking at it in reality and BEE provided job problems - they rented a short while and moved back to the UK again.

My saying is that it is better to try something and make a mistake than have regrets.

If it is niggling at you go take a look - but hang onto that citizenship - then you can always come back again!

[RICHARD-CINDY]

We are going to do a look see in May. We decided to go out of season when people were not on holiday and the weather was average - ie not holiday mode.

From there we should have a good idea of what our decision is but will setlle it once we get our AU passports.

Further, we will not leave Oz unless i have a job lined up.

Hopping from country to country is no ideal career wise so we want to make sure - as best possible - a move is the right thing

[Joeemm]

I have to say that for me, having a child only served to cement my decision to stay in Australia. In spite of having family (including Granma) in SA, I can see no reason I should swop the peaceful, secure, happy life we have in Australia for a very doubtful, risk ridden life back in SA. Every aspect of life (barring the wild-life, which is unique in Africa) is better for us here. We may go for a visit sometime, but I see no reason to put my family at risk (I'd even go so far on some days to say in physical danger, too much ??) and move back to SA.

By all accounts South Africa is getting generally harder to live in, not easier. Australia continually comes up on UN lists of best places to live in the world! South Africa seems to slip further and further down the lists.Sorry, I'll stop ranting ;-) but as you can see I feel strongly about this, still I reconise you right to choose for yourselves, so good luck and all the best with the LSD.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Joeemm

[Dryad]

I have never been to Oz, so have no idea how the Cape compares. However I am currently living in Cape Town, Parow area. I am not trying to put you off but maybe keep this in the back of your mind.

Everything is becoming more and more expensive each month, I buy more or less the same things each month and can see how thing go up, not by cents by Rands. Silly example bought Finish dishwasher powder in December R 40, when I bought end of last month R48, that is a 20% increase in 4 months. Petrol price keeps going up from Jan 2012 total increase is R1.33, thus petrol is n R11.59 for unleaded 93. The last increase was 71c of which 28c was increase on levies. The latest price increase will still hit the price of everything we buy, will wait and see the end of the month. The average salary increase is about 7% per year.

Regarding work, please do not see these comments as offending not my intention to insult anyone. If you are not black you will mostly probably not find work easily. I am a white female and have been looking for more than 3 months for other work and had 2 interview for post that were not AA or BEEE, I probably sent my CV to between 50 to 100 different position, most of these adds appear latter again with the phrase added AA / BEEE position and sometime these post are advertise for weeks / months without being filled. The companies need the position to be AA / BEEE or else they cannot contract to any government as their BEEE status falls below the required level. If you are a white male it would probably be more difficult unless you have a skill which is in high demand and not restricted to BEEE position, however I do not think there are many positions left like that. I hear the same stories from our coloured friends, male and female, they are not dark enough for AA/BEEE.

As far as I can see the Cape is safer than the other regions and mostly under DA rule. Cape Town is cleaner than it used to be, they are repairing roads and upgrading them. Most people still have alarms and I think everyone has burglar bars etc. I drive with my windows up and doors lock as there has been quite a few cases of late were there was smash and grabs at traffic lights, there is beggars and vendors at more or less every light and you can never be sure who might be a criminal element . The atm 2 blocks from our home was bomb last month and there were gunshots as well. We live in a more upmarket area and have people regular knocking our doors looking for money or food.

The education seems to be in disarray, I heard that they will be change the curriculum again as the one currently being followed has been a disaster, I am not 100% sure of this, so someone with more info might give you a better idea. It does appear if the schools in the Cape is in higher demand as pupils from the Eastern Cape has flocked here for a better education. However it also appears that overseas nations are reluctant to accept our newer qualified people as they feel the standard is not very good anymore.

Sorry very long post…. Maybe if you want more of my opinions you should PM me.

[Riekie]

Maybe your lack of a support system since the birth of the baby is clouding your judgement a bit... Grandparents could always come & visit.

You must do what you think best for your family, but make sure you're doing it for the right reasons and not trying to fix a temporary "problem" with a decision with long term effects you did not anticipate or want for your family.

If you do decide to go, go for an extended visit 1st and use it as an LSD - like others suggested. Rent a house, buy your own groceries, apply for jobs... See how you go...

Hope you figure out what's best for you and good luck with everything!

[Merciafryer]

Hi

I have been in law enforcement for about 25 years and have seen terrible things happening! And it is getting worse by the day. I cannot take the strain of seeing the pain and suffering of the victims and loved ones anymore. That is why we decided to take our family to a safe country!!!!!!!!

Please think carefully before you make that decision!!!!!!!!!

[candivw]

How old is your baby? The first 18 months -2 years is very tough and you feel like you need help but after thy it gets better. Do you have Any close friends that can help you out with some support here in oz??

[Batigol]

You definitely need support.

I'm not the best at Stats, but i'm pretty confident 75% at least of forumers here are leaving or have left SA to Oz, not the other way round. Why so, in your opinion??

Needless to say 99.9% of them are white families.

[benp]

Important thing is to get your citizenship sorted, that way door is always open for you to come back. And also much less pressure on you mentally as you will always know that you have a choice of catching a first plane back to Oz if things do not work out.

[Sa2Nz2Oz]

Ok, I havent been here for almost 2.5 years now, please excuse my info on my membership status - its way out of date! I have been back here in SA now since Sept 2009. Ive lived in New Zealand 4.5 years and Australia about 2 years. I came back to SA during the World econimic crunch, it hit Australia earlier than SA. I lost my job due to the situation and it really affected my confidence, luckily I did find some work again and returned to SA for a holiday, after getting back to Australia my sister offered me a business oppertunity in SA with her and after long and hard thinking I decided to go. I was exited and very optimistic about everything. Business started after I had to invest more than was planned for and things were not working the way that we thought. Anyway im still in the business and not happy with how it turned out to be.

Luckily I am a Citizen of NZ and can live and work in Aus, im also lucky I do not have children to worry about! I am really wanting to be back in Australia someday and all depends when I can get some money back from the business.

South Africa - has its natural beauty and things you are used to but there are lots of worrying issues here. Firstly to come back here you must be sure of a good job that pays you lots so that you can live in a safe area, afford living here like groceries, medical, insurances, electricity, rates, taxes, tolls, fuel and the list can go on and on, cost of living here is very expensive. Another thing lots of families come back here thinking they will have the same lifestyle before they left overseas but I cant even afford to see my own country's beautiful sites anymore. You can see a definite divide between the haves and have nots!

Everyone worries so much about the crime here and thats their number one about SA, yes there is lots of crime happening but doesnt hit the media, you see something in papers now and then but then you meet the people who have been hijacked, robbed, scammed etc and then you know how rife it is.

Its the corruption, mismanagement, lies, political mud flinging, political mutterings, corrupt police/traffic force that worry me the most. There is so much going on here if you are aware of it, some people with huge amounts of money are so isolated in their little world it doesnt bother them.

Our councils are bankrupt , hospitals with no medicine or equipment, schools without teachers or facilities but our councils still wastes money changing names of streets and towns - I really dont know where some of these towns are with these new names? Even the local black people are disillusioned with government's lack of giving back to their own citizens but they still vote for them??? Even our enviroment is under stress, our rivers and waters are all so polluted around major cities its a disgrace to be living near those areas, the litter I see around the place is so evident after living in a clean country. My list could carry on and on till I bore you all.

You are welcome to ask more specific questions and I will try and answer them as neutrally as possible.

[zoot]

I think Riekie's suggestion is excellent - go for a trip as if you mean to stay and then see how it goes. If you both will need to work see how much childcare costs and the standard, see how much a decent house in a decent area would cost, see what maintaining the lifestyle you would like would cost. The thing is to move back you need to be able to support yourself and your family in a way that doesnt cost you too much in the non financial areas. You cant live on the beauty of the country and family goodwill will only last so long if you have to become completely dependent on them due to financial hardship.

The other thing to consider is how much will it take if you decide that SA is not for you after all and you decide to move back to Oz, cause you will also need to factor that into your planning. It is no use just having an Oz passport if you are stuck in South Africa with no money and no way to get back.

[RICHARD-CINDY]

Thanks everyone.

Our baby is 11 months old and you right the lack of a support network is a huge factor for sure.

The first few months were extremely challenging but things have got alot easier and probably will get even easier.

I do not know CT well, so guess can only have some further clarity after checking it out.

Regarding employment, i am relatively highly skilled and based on discussions with recruitment consultants, understand my salary would be relatively high, albeit the market is small in CT which is why i would never leave AU without a job to go to in SA.

Cheers

[Impatient]

You have to do what's best for you and your family Rich, but don't forget your initial reasons for leaving and how anxious you were.

I would never forgive myself if anything happened to the boys if I took them back. I also don't want to be the parent standing at the airport in 15 years from now, waving my kids goodbye. Remember what you loose in the long term.

Good luck either way..

Mel

[rozellem]

Richard and Cindy,

Probably useless info, but here goes.

My sister and her family live in the UK and my brother in law has wanted to return to RSA for about 4 years. He is a Mechanical/Industrial Engineer and normally works in big factories. He has come up against a few problems. The manufacturing industry has all but moved to China, BEE and all that, too many applicants for one position and as soon as they hear that he is abroad they do not even consider him for a interview (although they know he is fully prepared to fly out for a face to face). He did have a interview earlier this year when a representative of a RSA company came to London for business. He made it to the final 3, but the company went for a guy straight out of Uni in the end, they told him that their budget was very stretched and can pay the graduate a much reduced package.

All the best.

[heidim]

Dear Richard and Cindy,

Ultimately the decision is yours and my philosophy is it doesn't help to stick it out in a situation that makes you unhappy and depressed. You don't want your child to grow up with a sad and depressed mommy and daddy.

With that said, just keep in mind that the situation in RSA may ultimately also make you unhappy and depressed. I am a lecturer at a well known public University. The education system in this country is going from worst to $%^$&$% worse. If you want a decent proper education for your kids, it has to be a private school and I doubt that your children will get an internationally accredited degree in 20 years at a RSA university. The universities here are over crowded and there are not enough universities for the demand out there. Personally I think it's just a matter of time before government will also place quotas on how many whites are allowed to attend university. So you will have to factor in the financial implications that you may need to send them oversees to get a decent qualification (that is if any oversees country will accept a RSA matric certificate). Also keeping in mind that you'll earn rands and have to pay in $ or pounds and with the exchange rate getting worse by the day, you'll have to save a hell of a lot!

My husband is an accountant in local government. The corruption, wrong spending of money, problems with taxes and billing systems are ridiculous. What we see on the news, is barely the tip of the ice berg. The inside information he has about local government spending is hair raising!

I do not let my kids (2 & 4) play outside in the front garden as it means I have to leave the front door open so that they can get in and out of the house. Leaving the front door open is a big NO NO here as we will most likely be attacked should someone notice an open door. In the back yard we have a pool, which means my kids don't get to play outside unless I sit with them the whole time. So they're basically stuck in the house.

My 13 year old wanted a bike for her birthday last year which we refused as it is too dangerous to ride a bike in the street and our yard is too small. At 13 years of age she does not know how to ride a two wheel bike as she only had a small bike with training wheels....(we did promise her a bike when we move to Oz though!).

If you have the money to relocate to RSA and back to Oz again should it not work, then I guess you are in a great position. Otherwise I would be very careful and give it a bit of time and lots of thought before finally making the decision.

[Lyn]

Richard and Cindy,

I have just returned from a two week visit to South Africa.

South Africa is still a beautiful country, great airports, good malls, friendly folk and a great vibe too along with corruption, crime, BEE, unemployment, shocking driving skills, poverty, service delivery etc Nothing has changed for the better in my opinion.

My only suggestion with regards longing for family - I put myself out there, quite embarrasing and desperate - joined a group of like minded people, and slowly met more people and made great friendships - when in SAfrica I truely missed my new family in Aus - I couldnt wait to get back to them.

Maybe like me, you need to go back and see for yourselves. Validate the reasons why you moved. I dont want to sound pessimistic, but will bub be free to play, get a decent education, and a good job in South Africa ? Sometimes we as parents have to suffer a little heartache for our kids.

I wish you all the best with your difficult decision.

[miraclebabycaw]

Not trying to sound nasty but I can't think of a better way to put this. This is MY personal opinion and I am not trying to offend anyone. Becoming a good parent is all about putting the interests of your child first not about putting your interests first and expecting your childs to follow and fit in. If you want to live your life for yourselves then don't have kids. That being said, you have to make the decisions that YOU think will be of the best interest for your kid/s, not because you are lonely and missing family and need help, but because that is your duty as a parent. If you firmly believe that your child/ren will benefit from returning to South Africa then go for it and don't let anyone stop you as this is the right choice for you and your family, but if there is even the slightest bit of doubt, put your feelings on a back burner, be a good parent and stay in Oz for the sake of your kid/s.

Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

[Springjock]

Each to their own but if you dont have relative safety and a good chance of a decent future, you have nothing. I wish my son could grow up closer to his family in SA, but I'm not willing to risk his life for it. Skype will just have to do.

Good luck

[Lynnie]

We have been here for a year and went back in Dec for a 2 week visit... we were HORRIFIED!!! I can't believe we lived in that environment for so long... It is EXTREMELY hard to be away from our loved ones... BUT we can NEVER live in SA again, all that stress and tension - no thanks!!. Think of your child and his future.

But - you have to decide what is best for your family and their future - dink mooi

[bbop]

Have another baby! Things are different when there are two - less stress as you have been there before!....

[Emille]

Dear Richard and Cindy,

Ultimately the decision is yours and my philosophy is it doesn't help to stick it out in a situation that makes you unhappy and depressed. You don't want your child to grow up with a sad and depressed mommy and daddy.

With that said, just keep in mind that the situation in RSA may ultimately also make you unhappy and depressed. I am a lecturer at a well known public University. The education system in this country is going from worst to $%^$&$% worse. If you want a decent proper education for your kids, it has to be a private school and I doubt that your children will get an internationally accredited degree in 20 years at a RSA university. The universities here are over crowded and there are not enough universities for the demand out there. Personally I think it's just a matter of time before government will also place quotas on how many whites are allowed to attend university. So you will have to factor in the financial implications that you may need to send them oversees to get a decent qualification (that is if any oversees country will accept a RSA matric certificate). Also keeping in mind that you'll earn rands and have to pay in $ or pounds and with the exchange rate getting worse by the day, you'll have to save a hell of a lot!

My husband is an accountant in local government. The corruption, wrong spending of money, problems with taxes and billing systems are ridiculous. What we see on the news, is barely the tip of the ice berg. The inside information he has about local government spending is hair raising!

I do not let my kids (2 & 4) play outside in the front garden as it means I have to leave the front door open so that they can get in and out of the house. Leaving the front door open is a big NO NO here as we will most likely be attacked should someone notice an open door. In the back yard we have a pool, which means my kids don't get to play outside unless I sit with them the whole time. So they're basically stuck in the house.

My 13 year old wanted a bike for her birthday last year which we refused as it is too dangerous to ride a bike in the street and our yard is too small. At 13 years of age she does not know how to ride a two wheel bike as she only had a small bike with training wheels....(we did promise her a bike when we move to Oz though!).

If you have the money to relocate to RSA and back to Oz again should it not work, then I guess you are in a great position. Otherwise I would be very careful and give it a bit of time and lots of thought before finally making the decision.

your post almost made me cry - its so so bad that sa has become like his - i have a 2 and 4 year old and i cannot imagine leaving them in the house 24/7 - its so sad they cannot have a bike! - I wish you all the best and success and hope you can be in Aus asap

Edited April 15, 2012 by Emille

[Emille]

Hi there,

My wife and i have been in Sydney for 4 years and get our citizenship in the coming months.

We ahve had a wonderful time here but the call of Africa has been extremely strong since we had a baby.

Not having close friends and family close is challenging.

We are seriously considering moving to Cape Town end of the year.

Has anyone else moved back? How has it been? Do you have any regrets?

We know SA is not perfect but there is a soul to the country that seems to really be pulling us.

Cheers

my suggestion is that you move back if you want after getting citizenship, but minimise all costs, e.g. keep your furniture stored here, rent in sa and dont buy - until about 2 years - by that time you should know you made the right move or not.

just visiting is not going to give you a true reflection and living there for 6 months or a 1 year wont do it either - as you would experience an initial 'honeymoon' period but this will wear off. i hope for your sake that your friends and family are close in CT as if they are in Joburg etc. and not in CT you may see them once or twice a year anyway.

one forget about the reasons you left and also seem to remember the good things about SA and not the bad and compare the bad of Aus to the good in SA. unless you moved overseas initially because 'you wanted to travel/see the world' (and not any negatives in SA) - you will find that you feel the same way after a while that you felt before you left in the first place

we moved to UK, moved back to CT and it took us 1 year, after spending a fortune on removals and on buying a house and car etc. (all which had to be sold at a loss before we moved to Aus).

I have peace of mind now and dont want to be anywhere but here

but the lesson i have learned was to do what you have to do, but minimise the cost (I estimate the cost of moving back to SA at around R500k). this couldve been little more than a few airtickets if we were more cautious

Edited April 15, 2012 by Emille

[Sa2Nz2Oz]

My last post on previous page was just my impression being back here in SA, I havent given any ideas as to going back or not and what to plan for. If one is considering going back to SA yes make sure you have legalities to return back to Aus if needed, yes maybe dont bring your stuff back with you and just get furnished rental in SA - you never know, your feelings change when you return especially if youve been living in Aus/NZ for longer than 2 years. Its also no good if one is not happy with where you are, Philosophy - If you never try you will never know.