Anyone gone back to SA? How do you find it

[RICHARD-CINDY]

Hi there,

My wife and i have been in Sydney for 4 years and get our citizenship in the coming months.

We ahve had a wonderful time here but the call of Africa has been extremely strong since we had a baby.

Not having close friends and family close is challenging.

We are seriously considering moving to Cape Town end of the year.

Has anyone else moved back? How has it been? Do you have any regrets?

We know SA is not perfect but there is a soul to the country that seems to really be pulling us.

Cheers

[RICHARD-CINDY]

Thanks for all the comments.

Just as way of an update, we went to look at Cape Town to consider our options and whilst it is beautiful, it is nothing on Sydney. Further, work opportunities appear very limited and everyone commented the cost of living has gone up dramatically. I am against going back, albeit Cindy is not 100% convinced yet.

We have made some changes and our daughter is in daycare twice a week which has made a huge difference. We going to be moving out to St Ives way at the end of the year as we require more space and the Lord has blessed us with a big surprise with a soon to be new addition to the family.

As many people said, i think when the kids get 3 years and over things really will get alot easier - lets hope it is a quick 3 years!!!

[miraclebabycaw]

Hey guys. Congratulations on the "new" news. Probably a bit daunting right now but remember the Lord never gives you more than he knows you can handle. Your wife getting a bit of time without the little one I am sure is helping tremendously. The second one will be much easier you will see. You kind of sit thinking you have to be a super mom for your first one and get so upset when you are not, but with the second one you learn that you can chill a bit and disaster won't break out as a result of it. Good luck finding a new place to live. A change is as good as a holiday so they say. I hope you will be both a bit happier there.

All the best

Shona

[LizM]

Hey Richard and Cindy,

Firstly congrats on the pregnancy . You will find St Ives is "full" of South Africans, so hopefully it will feel a little more like "home" even though your family aren't there.

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in as I grew up in Oz but have lived in South Africa for 6.5yrs after I married my hubby. I am blessed with amazing in-laws (parents, sisters, brothers etc). But, even so, having had my 2 boys here I have found it incredibly difficult to be away from my family., especially since I KNOW what type of life and support there is in Oz.

I don't think you can compare when you start thinking about your children. You don't HAVE to have private medical aid or send your kids to private schools in Oz. People talk about the amazing "quality of life" here and when they do, they are referring to being able to have domestics and gardeners.

My definition of quality of life is very different! Being able to have my windows open in the middle of the night with NO buglar bars on them is quality of life for me. Not being worried about my kids playing out in the front garden behind a picket fence is quality of life for me. Being able to catch public transport. Quality. Cleanliness of cities (of course when I was living in Oz I thought it wasn't - only when you come to SA do you realise how clean it is!). Quality. Social security. Quality (even though Aussies complain about it).

And the "standard of living" and "quality of life" everyone refers to here costs a LOT of money. Many of the people I know get by because they are living on credit. It's crippling. In Oz, if you earn an average wage, you can live a pretty decent life. My parents visited us these last 2 weeks unexpectedly dur to my dad's mum being sick, and they couldn't get over how much everything costs when compared to our salaries. They were horrified.

I could go on. I love my family here. I understand what it is to miss family too (especially with little ones). But for me, I can't wait to leave and go back home.

[Guest May]

Wow Liz. that was powerful. Coming from someone who has experienced life on both sides. One could ask whether you are being nostalgic however I so agree with you on the quality of life.....quality of life for me is knowing that I in Aus I will live further than my driveway here if you know my meaning. Everyone goes on and on abt material joys and I say whats the point if tomorow you lose a loved one through crime. Thank you for your input. awesome and comforting.

[Donovan83]

Wow Liz. that was powerful. Coming from someone who has experienced life on both sides. One could ask whether you are being nostalgic however I so agree with you on the quality of life.....quality of life for me is knowing that I in Aus I will live further than my driveway here if you know my meaning. Everyone goes on and on abt material joys and I say whats the point if tomorow you lose a loved one through crime. Thank you for your input. awesome and comforting.

It's basically a toss up between two options - would you rather make the bed you sleep in or be murdered in it?

[Bosluis]

Come to Adelaide , its the cheapest city in aus,

[Fish]

Come to Adelaide , its the cheapest city in aus,

Not any more

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/realestate/news/brisbane-most-affordable/story-fndctlxg-1226435409099

[Bosluis]

At least we are going to get a super highway of 2,4 kilometres, cant wait , dont know why they use super anyway, nothing super about it .

[Bronwyn&Co]

At least we are going to get a super highway of 2,4 kilometres, cant wait , dont know why they use super anyway, nothing super about it .

It's just a highway, but to Adelaide it's Super to have one! At least I'm guessing it will run in both directions at once. Bosluis I think the 2,4kms is just the bridge part. I think the actual highway is longer? Anyway, it's about time. To call Adelaide the 20 minute city is ridiculous.

[6lie]

It is very sad, but this is true. I sit in exactly the same position. I am too scared to let my daughter (aged 6) play outside alone, even though we have a wall in front of the house, electric gate and electric fence all around. I'm just not prepared to take a risk. She also doesn't have the opportunity to ride a bike as there is no way I will let her into the street and our yard is not bike friendly. The last time she rode a bike was more than a year ago while we were camping. I am sure we will all enjoy the freedom OZ has to offer us once we arrive and start living life the way it should be lived - not being a prisoner in my own home.

Edited August 30, 2012 by 6lie

[Kat B]

You have to do what's best for you and your family Rich, but don't forget your initial reasons for leaving and how anxious you were.

I would never forgive myself if anything happened to the boys if I took them back. I also don't want to be the parent standing at the airport in 15 years from now, waving my kids goodbye. Remember what you loose in the long term.

Good luck either way..

Mel

This for me has probably been the best response so far... thinking ahead to the day that you may end up waving your kids goodbye at the airport...

[Tee]

Again, I am late on a topic but wanna add my 2c if you don't mind.

Years ago we passed up an opportunity to move to Canada because we thought we could make a difference, things would get better and wanted to be close to family and friends.

After 15 years, the country is in worse trouble than ever before. I have since had children who are now (2 of them) school age and we're already thinking about them growing up, leaving the house, clubbing/jolling and driving the streets alone at night one day!

It's one thing to have a BABY and want to be close to parents. It's another when those babies are CHILDREN, TEENS and then ADULTS...what then?

Try to think of the future and not just the present.

When did we change our minds about staying in SA again? After getting tired of reading about the children traumatised by crime, my own nephew included. Too many families, some known personally, touched by violent crime leaving traumatised children to try to pick up the pieces and make sense of it all. Children witnessing awful things happening in their own homes. Some orphaned in the process. Their memories cannot be erased.

In one terrible week, I made my mind up to stop being a survivor/warrior, to stop making excuses and justifying how we lived, to stop ignoring what was going on in my own social circle. I want to give my children a different life. I'm now thinking about them and not me.

Good luck going forward, change your perception of how you view life and what you want out of it, and enjoy your precious child (they grow up super fast even tho the 1st year drags on)!!!!

[RAD]

Richard and Cindy all the best with your future.

Seriously off topic but Tee, I am so happy to hear the word " jolling". Seems like forever since I last heard it.

[Tee]

Ha ha "lekker" I'm glad

[Lynnie]

Baie sterkte Tee :ilikeit:

[C&GJBay]

It's basically a toss up between two options - would you rather make the bed you sleep in or be murdered in it?

This is kind of a harsh way to put things, but very succint & true, if you think about it.

Unfortunately I never had a maid in South Africa, so for me, there was no toss up & i may have been very annoyed had I had to make my bed & be murdered in it!

(its a joke & I dont mean to detract from the realities of crime...)

[Bloubulletjie]

I see it this way. You only have one mom (RSA), and is a birth connection with its earthly non-replaceable. In the case you get seperated from the support structure of your mom (ex friends and family) and you fall in the hands of a new carer (OZ), it all depends on how willing you are to accept the new person and trust the new person to support and love you. I guess it is like a second marriage (I'm 22 years with my wife and is therefore not talking with experience) where you find a new person to understand and initially blinded through love dont see the noncompatables. You definately need friends (obviously most pioneering families will have new friends) and if you are a introvert like me you will struggle to find the life long old know you better than yourselve (and is happy to like you wards and all) friend when you obviously need one desperately. I am fortunate to have found good Australian friends (being here six years now) through mostly friends of our kids from school, and mostly I dont give up. I guys the last is relevant to giving up on RSA in the first place, but all comes into perspective once your kids are starting to do good at school and starts talking the new TAAL with an Ozzie accent and the rest and is proud to be Ozzie. I am proud to wear my bokke green and gold, sitting arround with a kiwi and ozzie watching a game, knowing I am of europeen genepool, born and bread in Afrika, and living here in Australia with my wife and two kids looking forward to life and future. In the end there is not a wrong choice, just a new entry in your diary as long as you know what you want. Who knows?

[EliznaCobus]

I can understand if people consider returning to SA. We can't even untie the bonds that are keeping us here, yet we received PR visas on 13 Dec 2012...

Suddenly it seems extreme and unnecessary to leave the country - and older parents - and start over somewhere new. Suddenly it hit us that we are 47 and 43 yrs of age, we don't have jobs lines up in Oz, we are happy with our working and living environments, our kids are in Gr2 and Gr3 this year and loves school and friends, no one in our household or family or immediate circle of friends have been affected by either crime or AA. Our talks of leaving SA is now breaking our parents' hearts...they would not be able to visit due to ill health, they feel they'll never see us again, also insist that we keep trusting the Lord and remind Him of Biblical promises for ongoing and future provision and protection for ourselves and our kids inspite of prohibitive tertiary education/employment policies and high/brutal crime statistics in SA.....

I'm certainly not judging any one who is thinking of returning to SA. Emotions, uncertainties, loyalties, facts, logic, commonsense, hope and faith can get badly mixed-up....causing confusion, blurring clarity of vision.

Edited January 7, 2013 by EliznaCobus

[Jordy]

Having lived in Australia for almost 5 years, I cannot understand anyone wanting to stay in South Africa. My opinion is that what South Africans living in RSA think is a normal and acceptable way of living, is actually abnormal and unacceptable. But they won't see this because they have no other perception of any other way of life.

[Mara]

I do understand that those leaving RSA and leaving family behind, have a huge sense of obligation towards those people, HOWEVER, for me the greatest obligation that I thought we had, was towards our CHILDREN.

Although we could make do, there had to be a better future for them. I am so thankful we made the move, even though hubby and I were both 44 at the time, our only regret, we should have done it much, much, sooner! We have now been gone 19 years and I still have two sisters in Johannesburg, who visit me in Australia for some time out of the stress that they live in.

[AndreaL]

I agree with Mara and can remember a similar thread to this some years ago. My parents emigrated to South Africa in their 30's. This was in the 80's with no Internet to do research and a time when people didn't have the money to go and have a look. You just took a huge leap of faith and jumped in. My folks arrived with 3 kids, my Mother expectant with the 4th and £ 50.

I know we all feel a responsibility to our parents, but the fact is that all creatures must leave their parents and venture out on their own. I also believe that when you commit to a relationship, your responsibility then lies with that person and any children you might have. My wise Scottish father has a saying, " Me and ma ane", which means me and my own....his wife and his children first and then parents, siblings etc after that.

We are so fortunate to live in a time of Skype and more realistic air travel prices, the world has become much smaller and especially for those in Perth you are only maybe 9 hours away from seeing family if circumstances dictate. You can still have wonderful relationships with family....I do... I just don't physically see them as much as I would like.

Like Mara, my only wish is that we had done this sooner.

BTW Richard and Cindy, it's been some time since we heard from you, I hope things are more settled for you and perhaps your new addition has been born. A the end of the day it is your decision to make and must be one that you are both happy with.

Edited January 7, 2013 by AndreaL

[Oosie]

I agree with Mara and AndreaL. We came to Auatralia 4 and 1/2 years ago on a 457, my husband was 52 and myself 47. We received our PR within a year and are Aussie citizens now. We are so happy and wished we did it sooner in our lives. We still have a married daughter in South Africa and that is the only challenge but we will still not change anything, the best decision we ever made.

All the best

Linda

[Springjock]

There can't be any 'common sense' or 'logic' involved in a decision to go back to SA (or change your mind about leaving SA in the first place). Only emotion can drive such a decision.

Leaving family behind is always tough and I would love my son to be able to grow up with his grandparents, aunties, uncles, cousins etc around him.

The bottom line is that my son's life is more important to me than anything else in the world. My job as a father is to protect him and give the best life possible. Everything else is secondary. It's a tough call, but if you have your priorities right, it makes sense.

It's a tough call, but a call that must be made.

[Mikej]

Hello EliznaCobus.

The best reason for you leave SA is the future of your children. If you stay they will one day be the ones trying to leave and feeling obliged to stay because of their aeging parents and SA in 15 years is going to be a very different place.

We also have young children and feel grateful and at peace with the idea that they are growing up in a normal environment where they are free to be kids and have no pressure to leave.

Good luck.

Mikej

[Donovan83]

We are so fortunate to live in a time of Skype and more realistic air travel prices, the world has become much smaller and especially for those in Perth you are only maybe 9 hours away from seeing family if circumstances dictate. You can still have wonderful relationships with family....I do... I just don't physically see them as much as I would like,

This is so true - my parents came to visit me in December and it felt like we'd seen each other just the same as when I lived there. Sure it'd be nice to go visit on a Sunday like I used to, but we have our Skypes and I still speak to them almost every day. I know it was only 3 months, but when I saw them I honestly didn't feel like I hadn't seen them for 3 months, in fact, we actually had no news to share since we had had our "visits" every week anyway!