Anyone gone back to SA? How do you find it

[RICHARD-CINDY]

Hi there,

My wife and i have been in Sydney for 4 years and get our citizenship in the coming months.

We ahve had a wonderful time here but the call of Africa has been extremely strong since we had a baby.

Not having close friends and family close is challenging.

We are seriously considering moving to Cape Town end of the year.

Has anyone else moved back? How has it been? Do you have any regrets?

We know SA is not perfect but there is a soul to the country that seems to really be pulling us.

Cheers

[HansieSlimBergWilKlim]

The world is a global village now. Thousands of young western families are living in very exotic places these days. Even places consiered to be unsafe.

If you are able to, go back until your baby is primary or middle school age and perhaps even consider having baby number two over there. Don’t be tempted to live in a hellhole like Jhb, live somewhere nice and make the most of it. Cape Town would be ideal. Enjoy all the country has to offer. Travel, see as much of Southern Africa as possible and spend a lot of time with your family. You have experienced Australia first hand. Relate your experience and offer advice about Australia to fellow South Africans while you are there. The ones who want to leave will hang off your every word and the ones who don't want to leave will relish the fact that you have 'come home'.

But of course all things considered, make sure the move is not going to ruin your career. Australia will always be there when you want to return, or anywhere else in the world for that matter.

[vaughanroe]

My Brother in Law and sister moved back to South Africa around 5 yrs ago after living for 4 yrs in Perth.

They moved back to Perth in January this year.

In the 5 years they were there they notice no improvements. A decline in the health care industry and hospitals (my brother in law was working in the industry).

The result was that they left one daughter behind in SA as she is now 18 and wants to stay with her boyfriend.

The move costs money and a little time which they will never get back. They are happy to be back in Perth and I am happy they are here too which I know is selfish.

I reckon if you want to go so badly then go. Scratch that itch. Scratch it hard! The alternative is you could fly family this way instead and who knows,l they might like it so much they decide to stay.

Good luck with your decision.

[Enrica]

I have been going back to SA every year at least once a year since we left. South Africa has gone into a very steady decline, the decay is everywhere. I liken South Africa to a large oil tanker , the engines were switch off , but the momentum will carry it for a far distance, but eventually that tanker will run aground just like all the African States to the north of the borders.

I spent 3 weeks in January /february this year as my father was ill, and I can only tell you from experience that the medical system like the education system and the infrastrcture is in serious trouble. My father was at one of the top pprivate clinics in Johannesburg , and it was absolutly scary , what is considered today to be private nursing care in South Africa. I miss my family and my friends , but I certainly cannot justify putting my family in harms way , I hold onto the reason way I left in the first place, and today the situation in South Africa is even worse than 12 years ago.

My friends that are in business there , are all complaining that business is really bad, unemployment is getting worse everyday, and as this happens , you can only imagine that the crime rate will rise even more.

I can understand if you dont have kids that the appeal might be there to return back to South Africa, but when you have kids that puts a different perspective on the situation. It does not matter how much money you earn, how high your electrci and barb wire fences are , all it take is a ZAR 1.00 bullit to change everyones life.

But on the other hand , if you are that unhappy here , then go back, but life there is not what you remember it to be.

Good luck with your decision.

[Whynot]

Hi,

I have to agree with HeidiM. They have three girls and one would think life would be better for boys, but that is unfortunately not the case.

We have two boys; age 16 and 14. The first thing that they put on our list when we spoke about immigrating was bicycles! They last drove little BMX bicycles when they were about 8, and could only drive it in the yard when we were outside with them.

Although our boys are teenagers, we don’t allow them to play soccer outside or even swim on their own – we have a big open yard. So driving a bicycle in the street is a HUGE NO. We also can’t let them walk in the street from school as several of their mates have been robbed of their cell phones and even bicycles.

And no, we are not over protective either!

We stay on a small holding and unfortunately neighbours of ours have been targeted while pruning roses in their own garden in daylight (while being armed!). Others were victims of an armed robbery after an evening braai. They shot and killed the wife as she was clearing the dishes!

Over the Easter weekend, we had fairly minor incidents at three of our neighbours and I suppose the only reason why we are really aware of the crimes is because we all belong to the neighbourhood watch.

As a community we have a very active neighbourhood watch, that helps a lot, but it does not change the fact that we live like prisoners in our own homes. For personal security, we have the neighbourhood watch, an alarm system with panic buttons, armed response, cameras, perimeter beams and electric fencing and with all of that we still live in one of the quietest areas within Centurion when it comes to crime statistics according to the SAPS.

Think twice!

[Donovan83]

Mariaan I think you guys are going to LOVE Perth. There are separate cycle tracks EVERYWHERE and you and your little (well... not so little) ones will be able to cycle all over the place.

Funny how many times bicycles were mentioned here... It's something I long to do every day. I LOVE cycling, it's something I used to do so much. I cycled home from school (it was safer back then, less taxis and crime) until my bicycle (and its replacement) was stolen in a robbery. When I was in Perth I cycled a HUGE amount and did a lot of sightseeing, it felt so amazing and was so integrated into the lifestyle.

In SA if I want to cycle I have to go to a reserve or fenced off bike park like Groenkloof, pay and then go cycle. And to get there I must drive 60km... how stupid. Drive 60km to cycle 20km in the name of safety and security.

[Sibella]

Dear Richard and Cindy,

Ultimately the decision is yours and my philosophy is it doesn't help to stick it out in a situation that makes you unhappy and depressed. You don't want your child to grow up with a sad and depressed mommy and daddy.

With that said, just keep in mind that the situation in RSA may ultimately also make you unhappy and depressed. I am a lecturer at a well known public University. The education system in this country is going from worst to $%^$&$% worse. If you want a decent proper education for your kids, it has to be a private school and I doubt that your children will get an internationally accredited degree in 20 years at a RSA university. The universities here are over crowded and there are not enough universities for the demand out there. Personally I think it's just a matter of time before government will also place quotas on how many whites are allowed to attend university. So you will have to factor in the financial implications that you may need to send them oversees to get a decent qualification (that is if any oversees country will accept a RSA matric certificate). Also keeping in mind that you'll earn rands and have to pay in $ or pounds and with the exchange rate getting worse by the day, you'll have to save a hell of a lot!

My husband is an accountant in local government. The corruption, wrong spending of money, problems with taxes and billing systems are ridiculous. What we see on the news, is barely the tip of the ice berg. The inside information he has about local government spending is hair raising!

I do not let my kids (2 & 4) play outside in the front garden as it means I have to leave the front door open so that they can get in and out of the house. Leaving the front door open is a big NO NO here as we will most likely be attacked should someone notice an open door. In the back yard we have a pool, which means my kids don't get to play outside unless I sit with them the whole time. So they're basically stuck in the house.

My 13 year old wanted a bike for her birthday last year which we refused as it is too dangerous to ride a bike in the street and our yard is too small. At 13 years of age she does not know how to ride a two wheel bike as she only had a small bike with training wheels....(we did promise her a bike when we move to Oz though!).

If you have the money to relocate to RSA and back to Oz again should it not work, then I guess you are in a great position. Otherwise I would be very careful and give it a bit of time and lots of thought before finally making the decision.

Yes this is really sad, I've already forgot the way we lived... My kids have a glorious life here, they play outside nearly every day with the neighbours kids (mostly because none of the neighbourhood parents want them in the houses anymore cause they wreck it, haha). So around 5pm I go for a walk with my baby in the sling and the kids either tag along on their scooters or bikes or keep playing until I get back and then I nag them to come in but they normally only do once it's too dark to see (it's autumn here in Melbourne but beautiful weather).

[Chocaholic]

Hi there - I understand what you are going through - having small children is TOUGH! And with no support even so much tougher. Which is why we postponed leaving South Africa for as long as we could so that we could benefit from granny and nanny and all that. But - as someone previously posted - they are only small (and hard work) for I would say 2 to maybe 3 years tops - then they are off to kindy, you get a breather and things get easier and easier. If you regret that the grandparents cannot be part of your children's life - yes, that's sad, but at the end of the day, not half as sad as the future your child might be facing in S.A. (too pessimistic, am I? Well, hell, yes, that's why we are now here in Oz after all, right?)

Please think of this very long and hard. I suppose once you have your citizenship it is probably easy enough for you to move back here again (which you probably will) - but, what if something does happen to your kid over there? I don't know .......

I just know every time when I see our children running freely outside with the neighbourhood kids, often still late in the evening, back and forth to each others houses or to the park with their bikes or playing games in the (quiet) road.......every time I see this I just know we have made the right decision and that they would never have this freedom there.

Not to speak even of their future here - if they do well in school they have the whole world open to them - they can study whereever they want, become whatever they want - no BEE and admission restrictions to Varsity because they are the wrong colour.......

Good luck with your decision - may it be the right one for you..

[Annelie Siemens]

It just amazes me that people only use this country to get their citizenship, and then go back to RSA, and if things don't work out they have a back door.

I get very annoyed, when I read things like this. It took us 3 yrs to get our visa, and there is so many people out there, who will give everything to come here, and they don't get in.

We have been here for a month now, and the chances of us going back is very scarce. We moved here for our son(19mnths) future, because I will not allow my son to be discrimanated against when he grows older.

But hey, each to their own, but I still don't think it is fair to stay in a country only to get your citizenship, and then all of a sudden africa is calling, except for family and friends(who will be living their own lives in any case) , what in africa is calling you?

[HansieSlimBergWilKlim]

It just amazes me that people only use this country to get their citizenship, and then go back to RSA, and if things don't work out they have a back door.

I get very annoyed, when I read things like this. It took us 3 yrs to get our visa, and there is so many people out there, who will give everything to come here, and they don't get in.

We have been here for a month now, and the chances of us going back is very scarce. We moved here for our son(19mnths) future, because I will not allow my son to be discrimanated against when he grows older.

But hey, each to their own, but I still don't think it is fair to stay in a country only to get your citizenship, and then all of a sudden africa is calling, except for family and friends(who will be living their own lives in any case) , what in africa is calling you?

Some people just like moving around. Why would you have a problem with that?

[Annelie Siemens]

Because why always wait until you have a passport in your hand to then start thinking about moving around......if you want to move around, that is awesome, but then do it without first waiting to have your bread buttered on both sides.

[Biker]

Hi,

I haven't been back to SA in 2.3 years and on a recent holiday was shocked at how expensive everyday shopping became.

I did find people friendly, but that was probably because I was in holiday mode. Then I went to City of Joburg - they still owe me money from 2 years ago.

There were massive queues! I have worked at CoJ some 5 years ago and predicted this demise, but what a shocking eye opener.

Just take a look at where your tax money is going to be spend as I'm not sure it is worth it.

[Kas]

It just amazes me that people only use this country to get their citizenship, and then go back to RSA, and if things don't work out they have a back door.

I get very annoyed, when I read things like this. It took us 3 yrs to get our visa, and there is so many people out there, who will give everything to come here, and they don't get in.

We have been here for a month now, and the chances of us going back is very scarce. We moved here for our son(19mnths) future, because I will not allow my son to be discrimanated against when he grows older.

But hey, each to their own, but I still don't think it is fair to stay in a country only to get your citizenship, and then all of a sudden africa is calling, except for family and friends(who will be living their own lives in any case) , what in africa is calling you?

Annelie I really think your judgement is misplaced. Richard and Cindy have not used Australia, as you say. I'm quite sure they moved here with every intention of making this their home, but 4 years down the line, and after having their first baby, they miss South Africa and feel a pull to move back there. Whilst of course you are entitled to the opinion that it will never happen to you, why would you get so annoyed and judge somebody else that feels differently to you? You had the privelage of having your baby in South Africa where I assume you had some sort of a support system. Having the first child can be extremely challenging and hard for some (I know it was for me), and to go through this life changing experience without the support of good friends and family must be so difficult. As you have not experienced this again I ask why you are judging Richard and Cindy on having these feelings? I can see you have made the best possible choice for your family, your son, but remember that everybody's circumstances are different, and ultimately we all need to make choices that are right for us. This forum should be for us to voice our opinions for sure, but not judge others for theirs. It sounds like you really wanted to move here and went through a lot to get here, but Richard and Cindy's choices have no bearing on that or the other people in SA who would love to live in Australia. They have every right to gain citizenship here (after all we're all entitled to secure a positive future for our children) and move back home if they are terribly unhappy in Australia. They are extremely lucky to have the choice they have, why shouldn't they take advantage of it?

Edited April 23, 2012 by Kas

[RICHARD-CINDY]

Thanks Kas, well said!!

We are still deciding on what to do and expect it to take us at least until the end of the year to make any decision.

[bundyman]

Annelie.....stop being a typical South African and judging others.People like you make me sick, there life there choice....if you have nothing constructive to offer......don't comment

[Bloubok]

I currently live in the USA, but we are planning to move to Australia, that is why I'm here.

I had a baby 3 and a half years ago, and was so alone. We wanted to move back too, to Cape Town. But, and please remember this: not only do children get easier, but you will get used to it. And your family can always visit.

If your heart pines, go back for a nice long visit, your plan to visit off-season sounds great.

So, my advice is nothing you have not heard, I just wanted to say that I understand it is hard to be so happy on the one hand with a new baby, only to realize that you can't share your joy with your family on a daily basis.

[Fish]

Thanks Kas, well said!!

We are still deciding on what to do and expect it to take us at least until the end of the year to make any decision.

Congratulations on your bub...aren't babies the most wonderful thing !!!

Edited April 23, 2012 by Fish

[Gabby]

Well said Kaz. Annelie don't judge!

Edited April 23, 2012 by Gabby

[Bosluis]

I've been living in Aus for 8 years about,still miss SA now and then but after reading these posts I think I'll stay for another 8 years or so

[mella]

Richard and Cindy, Good luck with your decision.

We are on our way to Perth in a months time and I sure hope we dont have to make this decision in 4 years time. It was already so difficult making the decision to leave all our family and friends in SA. I cant imagine making friends again and then leave again!!

Good luck!

[Superkruz]

I think poor old Charles Nqakula's short-sighted statement in

will come back to haunt him (and the country). It was repeated in

edition of Carte Blanche on emigration by whites from SA. Edited April 24, 2012 by Superkruz

[Superkruz]

is an interesting video clip (from a USA perspective) on white guilt and the victim mentality (stemming from slavery) many blacks have. In a way this is applicable to SA blacks who embrace victimhood stemming from apartheid.

[Springjock]

Its a decision I could only make if the following things were in place

1) crime levels drop the point that I would not worry about being a victim, or a loved one being a victim, on a daily basis.

2) society changes to the extent that life is cherished and regarded above all other material things

3) that society and the business sector reflects true democratic and non-discriminatory principles.

4) that life and society is such that I can see a happy and productive future for my son.

I sincerely hope this day comes, but I just cant see it.

[jas1]

we moved to UK, moved back to CT and it took us 1 year, after spending a fortune on removals and on buying a house and car etc. (all which had to be sold at a loss before we moved to Aus).

What made you choose not to stay in the UK Emille?

[Katerina]

Hi Richard & Cindy

Friends of ours moved back to Ctn after a couple of years in Sydney as they had 3 boys under the age of 5 and were missing family support too much. At the time we couldn't understand it, but now that we are new arrivals in Sydney....I have a better perspective of what they were probably going through.

Basically it's a trade off of security and efficient living (here in Aus) for the support and companionship of family and friends (in SA). Tough decision. Good luck!

[Emille]

What made you choose not to stay in the UK Emille?

weather mostly but also naivitivity that south africa will change. i did not like uk lifestyle