crime in Oz

[AndreaL]

Maybe as a host, I'm feeling that the same is happening in reverse Bronwyn, that anyone who has a different opinion to Johhno is attacked by him and called fools or ostriches.............. I don't believe that anyone has tried to suggest that Australia is Utopia.

I'm believe that the truth is somewhere in the middle, and that any reasonable person will be able to work that out.

On the other thread, Johnno had basically called Patrice a fool, and there is no need for that..............Johnno is just as entitled to his opinion and to share his personal experience as anyone else on the forum, but I don't think people would say anything if he did it without casting aspersions on other peoples credibility or experience.

In fact, it is time it stopped on all sides.................I suppose each of us will sit in one camp or the other, but we should be able to do it without belittling others.....................I hope so anyway.

[Bronwyn&Co]

Some people can dish it out well enough

http://www.saaustralia.org/index.php/topic/42298-2-white/page-2

I'm sure he can handle it.

[AndreaL]

I'm sure he can...........lol...........I just don't like conflict and would like to get this issue/thread back to where it should be, without any personal stuff.

[Johnno]

I'm sure he can...........lol...........I just don't like conflict and would like to get this issue/thread back to where it should be, without any personal stuff.

AndreaL, as the moderator (host) of this discussion board one would expect that you would allow yourself to have a bit more of a balanced view. On this thread I am answering a question posted by Donny the thread originator yet you and others see reason to turn the thread into a "pissing competition" between crime in SA and Oz. Please don't be offended by that definition, after all we're all trying our very best to be Aussies and that is Australian slang at its best. Donny did not ask if you feel happier/safer/luckier in Oz, he asked...(highlighted in red)

Hey everyone, I've been reading through a couple of topics now and realized that a few people mentioned that there are a couple of rough areas, especially in Melbourne. I was wondering if any of you have been or know of someone who has been a victim to crime in Oz? And also what makes you classify these areas as rough? My fil showed me a clip of someone, looked asian, trying to break into a house in Perth. In the clip he's comes in through the gate, bare chested and holding a machete. The alarm went off and frightened him away. There's a special page on Facebook dedicated to crime in Oz.

In reply to Donny's question I have done nothing but offer my 100% truthful and accurate personal experiences (which is what he asked for), even posting links to news stories, crime stats and posted personal photos. As a thanks I've been ridiculed by those members who seem to think that crime never happens in Oz. Yet using a website link that you posted of Qld, one would be hard pressed to find a neighbourhood where some sort of crime has not been reported in reasonably high numbers. My pics attached in previous posts speaks for themselves. Given my experience I will however not sit back and see someone like Donnie receive bad information like, "we don't lock our car, house or make any effort to secure our valuables, crime does not happen".

If you or any other members have interpreted my input as trying to put a negative slant on all things Australia or if anyone believes that I'm so unhappy in Oz that I should leave as I'd be happier in SA then let me assure you, you are wrong. If people do not want to read my posts they have the option of putting me on ignore, but as per my many posts, I'm happy to backup everything that I have posted and that in it's own is a lot more than other people just having a warm and fuzzy feeling.

If you do not want a balanced view which may in some cases paint Australia in a slightly less than perfect light then you should warn people when they sign up to the board. That will save people like me trying to post a balanced and honest view without wasting a lot of time and effort.

edit! PS! I have made roughly 320 posts and have 192 "likes" which according to your DB ratings, rates my contribution as "excellent". I find it offensive that you would think that my behaviour is "troll like".

Edited April 28, 2014 by Johnno

[Sunnyskies]

OK, I just can't resist!

This is like watching an argument between two of my siblings. As much as I enjoy watching the verbal ping pong provided it doesn't dig too deep I think that we should all adopt an approach on occasion of just ignoring the conversation. That way the topic peters out other than for true comments relating to the issue at hand.

I do agree that hosts should watch that they don't land up falling into the trap of trying to have the final word. Sometimes we just need to agree to disagree or recognise that we have different perspectives.

I think we all get the picture, from all sides. Yes there is crime, no its not as high as in South Africa, yes practice a few basic precautions and you should be OK in Aus (you may be lucky and leave everything open for 20 years with nothing ever happening or be unlucky like us and be the subject of crime 1 month after arriving in Australia) and even if you are the victim of crime it is likely that it won't be as serious as in South Africa.

Back to the actual topic, for those thinking of moving to Victoria there is a similar website to Queensland where you can check your crime stats at http://www.vicpolicenews.com.au/my-place.html.

Looking at the stats for my suburb in particular I noted that you are not very likely to be killed (actually extremely unlikely - of the 7 fatalities in my municipality in the last year 4 were of the elderly and 2 were jay walking), you are way more likely to have something stolen out of your car than have your car stolen (but interestingly if your car is stolen you are more likely to drive an Audi than any other car) and if something is stolen out of your car it may be your service log book (!). There has been a decrease in assault but an increase in house burglaries, car theft and more detection of drug related crimes. There has also been an increase in what is classified as "crimes against property" which include graffiti.

[Johnno]

Good post Sunnyskies but likewise I see you also reach straight for the comparison to SA....why? SA is the lowest common denominator for crime and any comparison with SA is useless as the crime rate and violence in SA makes crime elsewhere in the world look like a non event. Your link proves that anyone not locking their cars, homes or taking basic security measures runs the risk of being a victim of crime. Not murder, not hijacking, just crime and that's the question that Donny has asked.

[Sunnyskies]

OK, I'll engage for now...

I only compare to SA in para 3 because that is the common denominator between people on the forum and is my point of reference. Not much point in comparing to crime in the UK or elsewhere as I've never lived in the UK or anywhere other than South Africa or Australia, so I don't think that I can compare to anywhere else. On your point that SA is the lowest common denominator for crime, that may or may not be true, as you may find that the stats for El Salvador are also appalling (but as I would hazard a guess that most of us haven't lived in El Salvador and aren't planning on moving there so we wouldn't use that as a point of reference).

Anyway, the point of my post was actually the last two paragraphs, which relate to crime in Australia and the stats that the Victorian police post on their website updated every 3 months. Those figures are not compared to anywhere other than Australia and other than to the same area in which the same stats were measured for the previous 12 month period on a 3 month rolling basis. If anyone is interested in crime in Australia then they should probably try and source stats for Australia, which gives both an indication of what crimes are being committed and how many.

Just to edit, as I see the stats are being used in the "war of words" - although some crime is up, the numbers also indicate an improvement in policing as the police commissioner says in relation to the increased % for drug offences - "our drug detections have increased by 4.8%. This is very pleasing."

Edited April 28, 2014 by Sunnyskies

[BriD]

I will add this here as well as it is in reference to this thread also...

Firstly...I am a new arrival in Australia...with hardly any experience of being Australian or living here under my belt...and I openly admit that.

On this topic...what is what don't you like about Aus and the other thread on crime...Johnno...I do get where you are coming from saying that that was the question and it was not requested as a comparison. However, on pondering this point while watching this battle on this thread...I do wish to just add a thought into the mix.

I speak only for myself here...but I believe I could in fact represent many of the new arrivals on this forum when I say...it is virtually impossible to ask a new arrival what crime is like in Aus without us automatically comparing it to where we came from. It is one of the biggest reasons for this insane life change that we all have embarked on...a hope of life in a "Safer" country. Perhaps you who is essentially Australian now with so many years under your belt can separate the two...perhaps enough years have passed for you to do that without consciously working at not comparing...but I fear for me and perhaps many other South Africans who are newly arrived...this is a near impossible ask.

Yes, there is crime in Australia. There is no place without crime. Yes, some people come here with rose tinted glasses...sometimes you cannot help having those glasses on...you need to find the reasons to compel you to leave everything you have ever known behind. You come with high expectations...you try tell yourself to be more realistic...but sometimes you cannot get there until reality hits you in your face. There are some things that no one can prepare you for...you just have to walk the road and find out for yourself.

While being honest is definitely preferable...and I have always believed in an open and honest approach on all topics...I do think that sometimes things can start getting a bit warped...not intentionally perhaps...but I know had I read this when I was still in RSA, I would probably be freaked out. But the facts of the matter is...we will compare...it is impossible not to. Australia has crime, RSA has MORE crime. So ultimately, you are still safer here than you would be back in RSA.

So all I ask really, specially from you Johnno in the kindest way...is a bit more understanding when it comes to the fact that we are not all here as long as you have been and cannot just separate things as easily. Given a few years, maybe then...but for me personally...definitely not now. It is not possible.

[Donnyvcpt]

I'm interested in the crime in Australia sunnyskies, but I'm less interested in stats and more interested in personal experiences and encounters. My goodness, I've been saying that so many times that it's borderline ridiculous. If anyone's had an encounter, I would like to hear about it what's the big deal about that? I have, and this may surprise you, googled the stats before starting the thread.

Anyway thanks for the input.

Thanks brid I've been following your journal and it makes for a very good and inspiring read. I understand where you're coming from in terms of newbies not being able to resist the urge to compare. I was not aware of the home invasions for instance, but now that I know what the most common happenings are I feel like I would take appropriate precautions where I would perhaps not have if I didn't start this thread.

On a side note brid, has your hubby found work yet?

[BriD]

Donny, fortunately all I can tell you is that in my just under 3 months of life in Aus, I have not been a victim of or know anyone personally that has been a victim of crime in Australia.

[Sunnyskies]

I gave my personal experience in post #6 to this thread - strangely enough I am one of the people on the forum who has suffered what I think is one of the worst crimes (as it can end so badly) - home invasion, but we survived and lived to tell the tale. My Aussie friends are all gobsmacked when I tell them.

[BriD]

Yes. ..I can understand how the information given has been useful.

Hubby not found work yet. .. But has a very hopeful possibility... we hoping this is the one. Maybe we'll know this week. Thanks for the thoughts

[patrice]

Some people can dish it out well enough

I'm sure he can handle it.

Thanks for your concern - but no worries - I don't concern myself with such distasteful uninformed comments - I always leave what I consider 'gutter talk' to those who seem more at home with it. I will however always speak out when someone is being condescending, disrespectful, misleading, aggressive and biased, or as in this instance, when people appear so insecure, fickle and judgemental that they resort to playing the person and not the issue, especially if one has an opposing view. You may note that I am respectful, address the 'issue' and do not lower myself to calling people names, honestly that belongs in the reformatory school yard - where the delinquents have their tantrums when they disagree or feel threatened.

As always, our experience is different, each to their own, but the are limits of basic decency which some seem so arrogant they forget, or perhaps never learnt.

[Bronwyn&Co]

Thanks for your concern - but no worries - I don't concern myself with such distasteful uninformed comments - I always leave what I consider 'gutter talk' to those who seem more at home with it. I will however always speak out when someone is being condescending, disrespectful, misleading, aggressive and biased, or as in this instance, when people appear so insecure, fickle and judgemental that they resort to playing the person and not the issue, especially if one has an opposing view. You may note that I am respectful, address the 'issue' and do not lower myself to calling people names, honestly that belongs in the reformatory school yard - where the delinquents have their tantrums when they disagree or feel threatened.

As always, our experience is different, each to their own, but the are limits of basic decency which some seem so arrogant they forget, or perhaps never learnt.

Patrice if you are referring to me could you direct me to where I previously called you a name?

Also, I sincerely hope you did not just insult me by saying I at home in the gutter. If that is the case I find you beneath contempt.

You have a particularly mean way of addressing people and you somehow seem to think your behaviour is beyond reproach.

You are a sanctimonious, pompous ass. That's being called a name.

[AndreaL]

O.K

Johnno, I am trying to be balanced and in doing so, find that your constant references to people who don't share your views (and they are your honest views) as burying their head in the sand or wearing rose tinted glasses etc, very frustrating, just as you believe you have shared your experience, so does everyone else. It isn't a pissing contest and yes, Donny has asked if anyone has, or knows someone affected by crime. I'm pretty sure that has been addressed, many times. Also, there is a reason for asking these questions, sometimes you have to read between the lines..............he simply wants to know if his wife will be safe when he is at work,and In the same way that you expect that your honesty should not be questioned, neither should mine in stating that I feel safe, happy and sleep well.................it has to work both ways Johnno.

I believe the troll comment belongs to someone else, not me.

Sunnyskies, it's not about having the last word, it is about stepping in when a thread becomes less about the topic at hand and more about "having a go", and there is a fair bit of that on both sides...............

I sincerely do not get why this has to descend into an argument, there is no right or wrong answer here, only people's honest opinions.

Let us all make an effort to keep any personal comments out of it..........we can disagree without doing that. If we can't the likely outcome is that the thread will be closed down.

One last try for all of us (including myself) to keep this on track.

[Mara]

Wow guys, don't you think there has been enough biting and shoving, to last a long long time?

I think the original question has been answered, if however more answers are required, may I suggest a poll is set up, perhaps that may be more definitive.

I think that it is time that this topic is closed...as it is leading nowhere, so I will oblige and do so!