crime in Oz

[Johnno]

So it definitely seems to be WA where people feel it most.

I've just had a look at the Facebook page for crime in Perth and most posts described the perpetrator as being indigenous. The socio economic problems associated with indigenous people seemed to me to be more acute in Perth than other capital cities because it is the hub of WA. Eastern states have more spread out centres of congregation - Sydney, Central Coast, Geelong, New Castle etc. whereas in WA it's Perth full stop.

Now of course there will be posts saying there is crime everywhere, there is more to WA than Perth etc etc etc but if you have lived in any of the other states you will know what I'm talking about and if you haven't then you won't understand what I mean.

I've always thought it a pity that so many migrants settle in the closest spot rather than exploring the rest of Australia because each state is soooo different.

I lived in Brisbane for 2 years and have had the opportunity to spend time in most major cities from Hobart to Darwin as we have offices in most regions. In fact I was in Adelaide and Port Lincoln three weeks ago. Seeing what I've seen and knowing what I know, give me Perth / WA over any of the other places :-)

[RYLC]

:)

[Mikej]

Donnycvt

Your question about crime in Australia and Johnno wrote this

I've been in Oz for 13 years (not 5 mins) and I have seen a HUGE increase in crime.

Well after checking out the statistics and reading all of Johnno's posts it seems that every single crime in Australia has either happened to Johnno himself or someone he knows. He is a very unlucky guy.

Seriously though statistically every violent crime in Australia is declining and I know the intention is to not compare with South Africa but this cannot be avoided. There are about 250 murders in Australia every year and this figure includes manslaughter. The South African statistics of about 18,000 murders excludes manslaughter (culpable homicide) and when I last looked in about 2007 there were 12,000 culpable homicides in ZA.

If you look at the Australian statistics all the violent crimes are on a downward trend and the proper way to interpret them is in conjunction with the growing population. For example in 1997 the population was about 18.5 million and there were 364 murders then in 2010 there were 260 murders with a population of about 22.3 million people.

Johnno's claim that there has been a huge increase in crime is incorrect, he is making it up.

One of the problems in Australia is the lack of sensational news so every little incident is pounced on by the media and recycled until interest fades.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Mikej

[RYLC]

Brace yourself Mikej

[Donnyvcpt]

Mike thanks for the stats, but if you read the question properly you would have seen that I asked if anyone here had experienced crime themselves or know of anyone who has. Once again SA is being pulled into it and the question has nothing to do with SA. You're quoting 250 murders or violent crimes in Australia per annum, so is that what crime means to you? What about home invasions, assault, armed robbery etc? These are the experiences people are discussing here.

I appreciate all the advice and stats, but this was meant to be about personal experiences. Feeding me regurgitated stats that I've read over and over before is a little redundant. Also I think attacking someone for sharing their views and experiences is a little disrespectful. This isn't what this thread is about, personal attacks are uncalled for.

[RYLC]

Oops - posted on wrong thread...

Edited April 15, 2014 by Crisplet

[Donnyvcpt]

Wrong thread for what crisplet?

[RYLC]

I posted a reply here instead of on another thread. Lots of tabs open LOL

[Johnno]

It's always difficult to have a sensible non-bias discussion when people do not understand the question. Mikej has launched off on a tangent to prove that murder and homicide crimes are lower in Aus (and even decreasing). If there was a prize to be won you'd be a winner but I don't think there are any prizes for common sense and Googling of those statistics but thanks for the reaffirmation. I'd hatre to think that we all moved here to avoid violent crime and it was in fact worse!

However, if you're only understanding of crime is murder and rape then I understand your lack argument. In my books, crime is crime, whether you're being beaten to a pulp at a pub or your house been ransacked whilst you're out working or your kids bicycle being stolen. Maybe I'm more honest than unlucky and I call it as I see it, nothing to hide and certainly no rose tinted glasses

[PhoenixGirl]

This is my wifes profile and i just wanted to make a comment. Maryke has lived here for 2yrs now and myself for my whole life (34yrs) in both NSW & VIC.

I just wanted to state that i have not had any experience with crime in my 34yrs in Australia. I have also gone on to ask my friends and family and they have also not been involved in any crime. I also would like to state that i have a big family 6 brothers and 38 cousins.

I used to also be on the road alot as NSW/ACT State Manager and met alot of people and businesses and again never had anyone who has been robbed, mugged or had anything stolen. So while i might just be extremly lucky it also sounds like some people on here mentioning all the crime they have been involved in may be extremly unlucky.

I have never had secruity at my house or car alarms in my old cars. We have even had times where someone has left our front door open on a main ish road for 2 days and nothing taken. Or our garage left open for the weekend with access to the house and nothing taken. Now i wouldn't suggest trying this as that would be ridiculous but its just giving you an example of what happens.

Is Australia crime free, NO. But is it as bad as some people on here are saying i would also say NO. Do i have a reason to be lying or making Australia sound better, NO.

[Mikej]

whether you're being beaten to a pulp at a pub or your house been ransacked whilst you're out working or your kids bicycle being stolen.

I specifically said that all violent crime is on the decrease and used murder as an example. "All" includes your example of being beaten to a pulp at a pub. Just because you have the perception that crime rates, have as you said, had a HUGE (your caps) increase does not make you right. You specifically said that crime rates have increased hugely. You could not be more wrong and trying to trivialise the use of statistics does not wash.

Australia is one of 4 or 5 countries with the lowest crimes rates (across the board) on earth. If the crime here worries you then you do in effect have nowhere else to go. Australia, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, New Zealand and Singapore (possibly one or two others) are experiencing less crime than anywhere on earth since the beginning of time. No other modern or historical civilization or people have ever had so much peace.

[RYLC]

Hear hear PhoenixGirl's hubby

[AndreaL]

I'm not getting this...............Donny, you are asking for peoples experiences and you have them. I happen to disagree with Johnno re crime on the up, I think it is a case of more and free media access.

Is Johnno's experience going to alter your opinion about Australia, will it change your mind about coming here?

Everyone has said that there is crime here,as to the exact numbers..... the only way to prove that is through bona fide statistics.....................even if they are regurgitated.

Those of us who have not experienced the crime that Johhno has are not looking through rose tinted glasses, we are merely expressing our experiences and that is what has been asked for here...................it is up to you if you choose to believe the best or the worse............common sense dictates it will be somehwere in between.

Crime may or may not ever affect you in Australia....................more likely is trouble finding work or finding yourself redundant, that is more of a reality here than a home invasion.

One thing, despite saying that crime has increased, Johhno still rates Perth and WA

I'm signing out of this one..............it is starting to feel like a head banging exercise..............

I'm off to enjoy my almost crime free existence of the past 8 and a half years here in Australia.

[chzaau]

Crime control South African style... http://dailysun.mobi/news/read/5393/let-s-cut-off-his-head

[Johnno]

I specifically said that all violent crime is on the decrease and used murder as an example. "All" includes your example of being beaten to a pulp at a pub. Just because you have the perception that crime rates, have as you said, had a HUGE (your caps) increase does not make you right. You specifically said that crime rates have increased hugely. You could not be more wrong and trying to trivialise the use of statistics does not wash.

Australia is one of 4 or 5 countries with the lowest crimes rates (across the board) on earth. If the crime here worries you then you do in effect have nowhere else to go. Australia, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, New Zealand and Singapore (possibly one or two others) are experiencing less crime than anywhere on earth since the beginning of time. No other modern or historical civilization or people have ever had so much peace.

Mike, you gotta take things in context and NOT rush off on a tangent. Donnyvcpt asked a specific question....

I was wondering if any of you have been or know of someone who has been a victim to crime in Oz? And also what makes you classify these areas as rough?

and I have answered him truthfully. Should I rather have lied and said, "no worries mate, I have not heard of any crime". After 13yrs in Oz it my experience and hence my perception as well as what I hear from a large group of social friends, family and work friends, I believe that there has been an increase in crime. I did not say violent crime, just crime. However I think bashings, out of control fights etc has all played a role in my perception that crime is on the increase. Will this affect anyone's pans to immigrate to Aus? I don't know and don't really care, they will do their own homework and research.

For anyone who says that they do not know anyone who has ever experienced crime, I say get out more. I have posted proof on this thread where in the last 8 weeks we have had two of our branch offices broken into. Last weekend a friends bikes stolen from their secure lock up basement garage and a friends boat broken into at the marina? The of course you drive around and see signs like this. I'd like to ask those who say they have never heard of anyone who's experienced crime in Oz, "do you think the police do this because they are bored and just waiting for a fresh batch of doughnuts.

I did not see signs like this in 2001 when we arrived. In fact I did not hear reports of much crime so maybe I'm just imagining things

[Johnno]

I'm off to enjoy my almost crime free existence of the past 8 and a half years here in Australia.

AndeaL........and so you should! No one has said that crime keeps you locked behind 8ft walls, steel security gates and electrified fencing! Again, it's not a comparison it's a simple question that was put to us by someone who does not live here. Unfortunately as with all discussions where it looks like Aus is being "picked on" it quickly turns into a slogging match with people who have been living in Oz for 5 mins defending it with their lives.....why?

I'm also not going to continue giving advice, it's all available online for everyone to see for themselves and make up their own minds but here's something to get started with.

Even the cash strapped Fed Government recognises that they need to drop $40M into a National Crime Prevention Fund (this is over an above all other crime prevention costs) then perhaps they along with the police who are always crying about being under resourced should consult with some of the "experts" on this forum and save them selves a lot of tax payers money. maybe like me they are also imagining these crimes.

http://www.news.com.au/national/australian-crime-facts-figures-report-shows-teen-are-the-most-violent-australians/story-fncynjr2-1226645615303

"The Federal Government recognises the need to support young people who are at risk of falling through the cracks of society and putting them on the right path and this is why we have invested $40 million into a National Crime Prevention Fund which allows local communities to work together to recognise local problems and develop local solutions," Mr Clare said.

and in Victoria where apparently no one is affected by crime?

http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/assaults-lead-rising-vic-crime-rate/story-e6frfku9-1226652795760

The latest police statistics, released on Wednesday, show a statewide jump in crime of 3.8 per cent, driven by big rises in assaults and drug offences.

PS! Other than my Webber braai being stolen in SA I never experienced. Does that mean that SA does not have crime? Just because it does not or has not affected you does not mean that it does not happen and don't dismiss what others see and experience.

[Donnyvcpt]

AndreaL, what is that about?

Anyway, I didn't post this question because I want people to make my mind up for me about moving to Australia or not. I've already made my mind up about that, so this was about me getting an idea about what I'm getting myself in for. To my knowledge this forum exists to share information, experiences and also to help those who want to make the move to Australia, so I should be free to ask this "reasonable" question without having to deal with people throwing hissy fits like I launched a personal attack at them. I'm not afraid of the crime in Australia, as you all should already know, I'm living in a much tougher place than Australia now and doing just fine. For those of you who need to verify that, I'm sure you'll find plenty of regurgitated statistics to support it on google. Speaking of which, during my perusing of statistics I happened upon quite a number of news paper articles reporting violent crime in Australia, but if I'm to take (some of you) your word on it, then these articles must be inaccurate. Seriously, how could I possibly question the crime in Australia right???

It's ridiculous how some people can get their panties tied into such a knot because of a question, if you didn't like the question..... you didn't need to answer it.

To those who shared, thank you once again.

[Mikej]

Donny I don't think anyone has issues with your question and to me it seems a perfectly reasonable thing to wonder about.

It is the response that crime in Australia is increasing hugely that set me off and possibly others too.

My first experience (not personally) of crime was the first week we arrived. The front page picture of our local newspaper was a policeman on his knees doing something on the road. The story was that a hoon had been arrested for burning rubber up and down the road. Witnesses identified the young offender but he maintained his innocence so the police sent out the forensic guys to collect rubber samples from the road to match his car tyres. There was a match and the hoon was successfully convicted. For a Saffer fresh out of a suburb in Jhb where 5 of our neighbours had been murdered in the preceding 18 months it was an eye opener.

[Mara]

Donny, are you not being a little bit sexist in you remarks? I am sure there were men and women that gave their opinions!

Perhaps we should close this thread and just agree to disagree.

[Donovan83]

In South Africa I would go to work and often the talk would turn to crime. Almost everyone I worked with (and I worked in a large organisation) had been directly affected by crime - about a third of people quite severely (violent home invasion, hijacking, etc). About 2 months ago I got a call from a close friend to let me know she'd been held up in her own home in Randburg.

In my family there - my mom and dad were held up, aunt and uncle shot at in their house, gran robbed (she was out) and other aunt and uncle robbed (they were also out).

My partner's family have been robbed at home 3 times in an "upmarket" suburb of Pretoria. They've been robbed SEVEN times at their small business premises - a highlight for them was when an entire taxi of sophisticated local gentlemen drove into their parking lot, stormed in and pistol whipped his 70 year old mother for access to the safe, while his father was pinned down in front of staff in the reception area.

I've lived in WA for only 18 months and only heard of once incident of crime happening to a colleague. She'd left her garage open and someone stole a toolbox.

Obviously though, since someone's experience is different and there was a sign on the side of the road the one day saying that burglaries were increasing then it's clear that Australia is descending into a crime ridden hole and we should all start putting in Trellidoors or packing our things to head somewhere else My boss has been here for almost 20 years and his experience was that when he first arrived in Perth, crime was WORSE than Zimbabwe (where he is from), but his comment is that it has definitely improved slowly over the years.

Discussing this is like asking - how long is a piece of string?

Edited April 15, 2014 by Donovan83

[Bronwyn&Co]

I think its fair to accept that everyone has their own experiences of crime in Aus, or lack thereof. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' answer to the question posed. We live in the real world and we should just take a normal amount of care/precautions.

I don't really know why people are getting worked up. It's just people seem to be 'missing' each others' point sometimes.

If someone has a different perception about/experience of crime levels why take that personally? They aren't lying. They are stating what they feel. It should be enough then to simply say 'I disagree'. End of story.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Bronwyn&Co

[Donnyvcpt]

Mike, I can see how that would seem silly to you, and if that were my first experience of crime in Oz I would probably have a good laugh, but that was still a crime. No matter how silly it seemed to you it obviously annoyed someone enough to call the cops. I think we're desensitized by crime in SA so when something small happens we tend to overlook it and because we know it could have been worse. Imagine if that kid had lost control of his car and seriously hurt or even killed someone. I think that that's what it would take for the cops to take a look here is SA. The fact that they respond to it as early as they do and deal with it as severely as they do is probably why things aren't spiraling out of control.

Mara, I can see why you would think its sexist, but I actually meant it for the women and men who were "taking it personally". So I apologize for the terms I used, but not for what I said. I think that attacking someone for having a different opinion to yours is childish and petty. As for closing the thread, you are more than welcome to as I feel I've received enough information to make my mind up as to what to look out for and expect. However, you might want to leave it open as it seems as though there are a few people who are over there already who don't seem to realize whats going on around them. And again I don't believe the question was ridiculous and I also don't see why my response was singled out to you when previous responses have people being called a liar.

Donovan, asking someone if they've been affected personally by crime is not asking how long a string is. Asking someone how long a sting is, is asking someone how long a string is. I have to go back to Phoenixgirls husbands post to make my point here. If i asked him the question personally, his response would be exactly what it was, that in his 34 years on planet earth he and everyone he knows has never experienced a single crime compared to those who have experienced some sort of crime. I could say something similar living here in Cape Town. In the 33 years living here in Cape Town I've only ever been mugged once and that was 15 years ago, never experienced a home invasion or even a pub brawl, but if you asked a friend of mine he might tell you he was hijacked, stabbed once and had his home ransacked twice. 2 polar opposite responses of personal experiences. Now if you were planning on moving to Cape Town wouldn't you want to hear both of those to help you asses what you're in for?

Bronwyn, fantastic point. Just disagree, why get worked up and get nasty.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Donnyvcpt

[Mara]

Donny, the reason I singled your response out, because it was sexist, in my opinion, however, as you have explained it was aimed at men and women.

I agree with you, from time to time we have an instance where people find it hard to let go of a subject, however, once again, just as we are not all clones of one another, we have different lifestyles, different experiences, and definitely a different outlook on life.

My view on this thread? People sometimes have a hard time letting go, if anyone dares to disagree with a statement that they have made or an opinion that they have given. . There are a number of people who then happily take them on and honestly, I say good on them!

As hosts, we try and calm the waters, reminding people that there are differing opinions and leave it at that.

[HansaPlease]

So Donny, has this thread changed your perception of what you can expect in terms of crime?

Does it seem worse than you expected, better than you expected, or are you more confused than when you started?

It's a really difficult thing to gauge, because, as you have seen, people base their opinions on what they personally have seen or experenced - and even then, the truth is hard to find because of the human tendency to over or under exaggerate based on their agenda.

[Donnyvcpt]

Hansa, in all honesty, I feel more at ease knowing what to look out for over there. I do have some concerns, which I would rather not voice here so as not to step on anyones toes. Once I've figured out how to phrase it in a more polite manner than I'm thinking it right now I'll start a new topic lol.