crime in Oz

[HansaPlease]

I'm also noticing all this talk of anti-social behaviour. Seems very contradictory to the whole aussies are friendly and helpful concept.

.

Aussies ARE generally friendly and helpful... It's just the anti-social ones who aren't!

I'll try to draw up a list of all the friendly ones for you and the ones to avoid. Might take a while though because there are over 20 million people. Check back on this thread in 2018 for the full list. By then the population would have increased and I'll have to start again.

I know I'm poking fun, but I'm sure you get my point.

Wow, and I Googled for "parties in Perth that went off quietly without gatecrashers, assaults or police being called" and was HORRIFIED to see there were none - not one.

Although I chuckled - This really hits the nail on the head very well OBD.

[Donnyvcpt]

Lol Hansa I see you have time to kill.....yeah I noticed what a dumb thing that was to say after I hit the post tab lol. But ahhhh seeing as though you're offering I'll wait on that list.

[Johnno]

Wow, and I Googled for "parties in Perth that went off quietly without gatecrashers, assaults or police being called" and was HORRIFIED to see there were none - not one.

Of course crap happens - it just doesn't happen nearly as much as in the armpit of the 3rd world we come from.

A gatecrashed party there would have to have at least two murders and someone "important" (by that I mean self-important) inconvenienced before it made the papers.

HAHA, now try Googling "people who do not get raped and murdered in SA" and there's also none, not one. That's because as far as news and headlines goes it's the age old saying........ "if it bleeds it leads".

I went to SA last year for my nephews 21st where his parents hired a sports bar for the night. Not a single gate crasher or uninvited guest causing problems. As soon as people saw it was a closed party they were happy to be on their way! The only problem we had was one invited guests got really pissed and started making trouble. But after speaking to him a few times he soon found himself sitting on his arse with a sore jaw and all he could mutter was "wie is die ou-ballie wat my gemoer" and then he bought me a beer......problem sorted

It's year 12 "prom nights" here and I've just heard that parents can be fined $4,000 for throwing an after party without a permit and/or police permission.

[HansaPlease]

Lol Hansa I see you have time to kill.....yeah I noticed what a dumb thing that was to say after I hit the post tab lol. But ahhhh seeing as though you're offering I'll wait on that list.

Look, I must admit, it did take me by surprise when I got to Aus to find that anti social behaviour is far more prevalent than you expect because on the whole the Australian people are a peaceful, friendly, law abiding society. Public transport can be an eye opener.

It only take a few to ruin it for the masses. You don't remember the 300 commuters on your train who behaved impeccably - but that one loud mouth drunken yob sticks on your brain for the rest of the day/week/month. Again, you forget about the hundreds of peaceful commutes you've had in the past year and you focus on the few idiots you've seen here and there.

I think you notice or come across it more in Aus because society is less separated. Public transport is a big leveller.

Edited April 7, 2014 by HansaPlease

[Bronwyn&Co]

Finally, thanks Johno, you got what I was really asking. This was never meant to be a competition between the 2 countries. I still live in SA and I see all the crime happening around me here, even the crime you guys might not hear of, so I really just wanted to hear honest encounters or experiences of crime in OZ.

The main concern seems to be petty theft and home invasion, not overlooking the murders, but you guys mentioned 4 murders that happened nation wide so I really can't see that as a major threat.

Based on what you guys are saying, I will definitely be securing my property once I land over there, and while I'm renting, I'll discuss installing safety equipment with the owner. I don't see any point in making yourself a target.

I'm also noticing all this talk of anti-social behaviour. Seems very contradictory to the whole aussies are friendly and helpful concept.

Can't wait to see for myself.....preferably not in Lake grace though.

Donny just a quick correction, those murders were all in Brisbane since November, I was just mentioning about students. There would be a fair few deaths in other states too. Sorry I know it's labouring the point.

Also if you don't mind another small word of advice - don't discuss security upgrades with your new landlords, because it's very unlikely to be well received. You will never land a rental, or they will just say no and think you are 'difficult'

[OubaasDik]

Look, I must admit, it did take me by surprise when I got to Aus to find that anti social behaviour is far more prevalent than you expect because on the whole the Australian people are a peaceful, friendly, law abiding society. Public transport can be an eye opener.

It only take a few to ruin it for the masses. You don't remember the 300 commuters on your train who behaved impeccably - but that one loud mouth drunken yob sticks on your brain for the rest of the day/week/month. Again, you forget about the hundreds of peaceful commutes you've had in the past year and you focus on the few idiots you've seen here and there.

I think you notice or come across it more in Aus because society is less separated. Public transport is a big leveller.

Agreed.

Seen some sights on the Perth trains. Never knew girls could get that incapacitated by the demon drink - Christmas party time can be an eye-opener.

HAHA, now try Googling "people who do not get raped and murdered in SA" and there's also none, not one. That's because as far as news and headlines goes it's the age old saying........ "if it bleeds it leads".

Agreed there, too. Which is the point I was trying to make.

[Johnno]

Look, I must admit, it did take me by surprise when I got to Aus to find that anti social behaviour is far more prevalent than you expect because on the whole the Australian people are a peaceful, friendly, law abiding society. Public transport can be an eye opener.

It only take a few to ruin it for the masses. You don't remember the 300 commuters on your train who behaved impeccably - but that one loud mouth drunken yob sticks on your brain for the rest of the day/week/month. Again, you forget about the hundreds of peaceful commutes you've had in the past year and you focus on the few idiots you've seen here and there.

I think you notice or come across it more in Aus because society is less separated. Public transport is a big leveller.

Totally agree HansaPlease! It was not only an eye-opener but huge disappointment for me when I saw firs-hand the extent of anti social behaviour amongst the youth. There's a lot of really good kids, in fact the majority are good kids but jaslaaik some of these other okies need a snot klup!

SA is not only a society separated by race but also divide by class.Typically everyone in a particular neighbourhood would be roughly of the same class, morals and income bracket. That means that there is not a huge class divide in the local school which draws students from the local area. Here in WA the government forces classes together by insisting that Homes West (state housing) is represented in all neighbourhoods and developments. A friend of mine is involved with one of WA's largest home developers and he was telling me that one in ten homes in new developments are state houses. This way the government avoids creating "slums" or neighbourhoods consisting of mainly poor welfare dependent families. It seems to work because I am yet to see a "slum area" in Australia. Sure you get some dodgy areas but no slums.

[Fish]

Totally agree HansaPlease! It was not only an eye-opener but huge disappointment for me when I saw firs-hand the extent of anti social behaviour amongst the youth. There's a lot of really good kids, in fact the majority are good kids but jaslaaik some of these other okies need a snot klup!

SA is not only a society separated by race but also divide by class.Typically everyone in a particular neighbourhood would be roughly of the same class, morals and income bracket. That means that there is not a huge class divide in the local school which draws students from the local area. Here in WA the government forces classes together by insisting that Homes West (state housing) is represented in all neighbourhoods and developments. A friend of mine is involved with one of WA's largest home developers and he was telling me that one in ten homes in new developments are state houses. This way the government avoids creating "slums" or neighbourhoods consisting of mainly poor welfare dependent families. It seems to work because I am yet to see a "slum area" in Australia. Sure you get some dodgy areas but no slums.

Interesting. Conversely, I notice very little anti-social behaviour where I live in Brisbane, youth or otherwise.

"A friend of mine is involved with one of WA's largest home developers and he was telling me that one in ten homes in new developments are state houses."...new developments wouldn't be the equivalent to the high socio-economic type of suburbs you were thinking of in SA would they ?

Edited April 7, 2014 by Fish

[Sunnyskies]

You don't get slums in Australia because of the minimum wage and Centrelink benefits. I agree it is a class thing, as not even money or race can buy class and there can be all sorts even in so called good areas.

Plenty of examples of anti-social behaviour in European countries too, so I wouldn't lable it an Aussie thing. Again, it is something that hits the news as a) it is sensationalism (which the media loves) and the news is generally locally focused and if you don't have a lot to report on even this becomes newsworthy - there was an interesting discussion on how something should be determined to be newsworthy on the ABC a few weeks ago and on the basis of how the person being interviewed determined if something is newsworthy we could loose all the 24 hour news channels as most of what they report is apparently not newsworthy but rather titillation or sensationalism dressed up as news.

Having said all that I agree with Fish that anti-social behaviour is not the norm where I live in Melbourne.

[Johnno]

We've also been very lucky in our neighbourhood in so far that it's an older area and not many families with teenagers. In fact shortly after we bought our house the family next door threw an 18th birthday party. The came over and told us that they were going to have a party that would go on quite late. The music was not very loud and at about 11pm the music could hardly be heard, there was more talking and loud voices but nothing to worry about and I thought, geeze, bloody woesies, even I throw better parties than that! Well, at 11:30 I sat bolt upright in bed, I though a jet had crashed into my front garden! The music was so loud that my bedroom and lounge room windows were vibrating. I quickly took back my thoughts, crikey these okes can gooi a party!!!! They had an almighty party but luckily for us quiet souls it was a one-off so no issues. It turns out that once all the oldies and families with young kids had left, the hired mobile techno disco man arrived and blew the joint wide open! A few broken bottles in the road and a few tossed in my front garden but no damage and no harm done. They had security guards at the door (proper bounces) informed the police who made a few turns past the house throughout the night and all went well. I'm not so sure they enjoyed me mowing my lawn at 7:30am the next morning

[Johnno]

This is why I say barrier security (i.e. Trellidor and burglar bar type security) is going to become more popular in Aus. Just here in Perth we have seen an explosion of drug dependent people fuelling their addiction by breaking into homes.

These people must have been off their face because no sane person, regardless of how desperate does this an old defenceless family pet! http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/latest/a/22490633/home-invaders-break-dogs-legs/

Someone also said that public transport is a "levelling factor" and how true, Look at this drug fuelled imbecile who's only means of survival is my tax money and look at the thanks we get!! This was in Fremantle on Monday http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/latest/a/22479033/bus-rage-passenger-charged/

I had to pinch myself yesterday afternoon listening to 882 6PR talk back radio station where they were talking about home invasions. The amount of people who call in saying that they have been hit a number times in a 12 month period was shocking.

[Donovan83]

How many of those people were raped? Tied up? Murdered? Burned with an iron? How many had their children's heads shoved into boiling hot water?

In most cases the perpetrators are arrested, sentenced and removed from the streets to serve some time.

The same cannot be said in SA.

[Johnno]

How many of those people were raped? Tied up? Murdered? Burned with an iron? How many had their children's heads shoved into boiling hot water?

In most cases the perpetrators are arrested, sentenced and removed from the streets to serve some time.

The same cannot be said in SA.

Donnyvcpt who's still living in SA has asked a simple question about crime in Oz and all he expects is a simple, HONEST and REALISTIC answer, not some self justification comparison between crime in SA and Oz. If crime in Oz was as prevalent and as violent as SA, I doubt any of us would be sitting here on an expat forum. Fact is,crime happens, a lot! I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, fortunately like most first world countries the police force are effective and these offenders are dealt with, albeit not well enough in my books!

PS! Saffa friends of ours in Kinross (WA) who are forever posting SA crime stories on their FB page saying how concerned they are for family back home and how lucky they are to sleep at night in Aus had their front door kicked off the hinges and their home ransacked in broad daylight. Not a word on FB? I asked why not splurge it all over FB and they said that they did not want their family and friends in SA to worry about them. Yeah right, more like piss themselves laughing!!

edit: I've been in Oz for 13 years (not 5 mins) and I have seen a HUGE increase in crime. Thirteen years ago it was quite rare to hear of home invasions and all the vandalism that we see so often but choose to ignore.....because it does not happen in Oz

Edited April 9, 2014 by Johnno

[RYLC]

So perhaps we can let Donnyvcpt tell us if all this discussion has put him off coming or not.

The truth is that nowhere is crime free (as previously stated by quite a few others) and we see what we look for. Me: I see no crime. Is there crime in Adelaide. Sure thing. Is it in my world - no. Did I have that option in RSA - no. Crime visited me in my home. I didn't look for it - it was in my face.

Donnyvcpt will not get a satisfactory answer until he has visited Australia himself and can make his own decision. For every post about things being safe and wonderful here there will be a contradictory post about a crime that has taken place. Only Donnyvcpt can answer his own question. The rest of us are just going round in circles

[Johnno]

The idea is not to put any one off, it's to give them the truth in the answers that they are looking for. People who's homes are invaded (whether in SA or Oz) do not go looking for crime either, it comes to them.

Check this out. Poor bloke breaks down and this is what he finds in the morning. Luckily no one was raped, tied up and murdered but STILL this pisses me off and why I tell my son that if his car runs out of fuel or he gets a flat tyre, never leave it on the side of the road!! This is Whitfords Avenue, Hillary's. Google the area, quite "upmarket"

[RYLC]

Notwithstanding, let's now let Donnyvcpt decide for himself.

Google the area, quite "upmarket"

There are those who could argue that being known as "upmarket" would be the problem as Australia really dislikes a tall poppy.

Anyway last "circle" for me

Edited April 9, 2014 by Crisplet

[Johnno]

Here's what Donnycpt wrote in his opening thread to which I have answered.

Hey everyone, I've been reading through a couple of topics now and realized that a few people mentioned that there are a couple of rough areas, especially in Melbourne. I was wondering if any of you have been or know of someone who has been a victim to crime in Oz? And also what makes you classify these areas as rough? My fil showed me a clip of someone, looked asian, trying to break into a house in Perth. In the clip he's comes in through the gate, bare chested and holding a machete. The alarm went off and frightened him away. There's a special page on Facebook dedicated to crime in Oz.

I answered him but it appears that telling the truth and saying it as it is, is a bit too much for some who clearly do not want face reality.

I do not believe that he was fishing to see if it's "okay to immigrate", it's clear that he's already made up his mind and he'll get all the support he needs, especially from me. I'm happy to share all my experiences with anyone who's considering a move to Aus but I'll speak of the good the bad and the ugly. If that gives them doubts then tough,I'd rather they have doubts before they leave than after being horribly surprise when they leave their front door open and have their gear knocked off.

Notwithstanding, let's now let Donnyvcpt decide for himself.

There are those who could argue that being known as "upmarket" would be the problem as Australia really dislikes a tall poppy.

Anyway last "circle" for me

Are you saying that because of the tall poppy syndrome in Aus, the not so well off people trawl the "upmarket neighbourhoods" and destroy their private property?

Edited April 9, 2014 by Johnno

[Fish]

...edit: I've been in Oz for 13 years (not 5 mins) and I have seen a HUGE increase in crime. Thirteen years ago it was quite rare to hear of home invasions and all the vandalism that we see so often but choose to ignore.....because it does not happen in Oz

Just to add an alternative experience for the OP, I haven't noticed a huge increase in crime. Also I would say I heard about home invasions and vandalism roughly the same amount 13 years ago as now. Stats may tell a different story just adding my general observation. Not invalidating your experience btw Johnno just adding mine. Hopefully a mix of opinions will help the OP.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Fish

[RYLC]

Are you saying that because of the tall poppy syndrome in Aus, the not so well off people trawl the "upmarket neighbourhoods" and destroy their private property?

Yes I am. Usually youth using graffiti or bad tenants who trash a rental house because the landlord is "rich". Happens to migrants and locals alike. Lots of Aussie forums with stories.

And I don't have a problem with your answers or pointing out where crime does happen. It's just that for every crime story there is a story of feeling safe and it has reached the point where we are going round in circles.

Donnyvcpt will have to go on faith if he has chosen to come because we can't explain it to him. The only answer to his question is, no, there is no Utopia anywhere in the world but as for the detail, it will depend where he settles.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Crisplet

[Kurkprop]

A couple of weeks ago my husband was off with the fairies one morning and forgot to CLOSE our front door, let alone lock it!!! HE also forgot to roll down the garage door!!! There was nobody at home for most of the day. I arrived home from work and noticed the garage door wide open. Two mountain bikes, a racing bike, several kids bikes, tools etc sitting untouched. Then realised the front door was also wide open. House completely as we left it. Here in Canberra you are not allowed to have a fence around the front of your property so the garage and the front door face directly onto the street with no fence around around our front yard. I don't know how many people must have walked past our house that day. Couldn't believe that nothing was nicked.

Another time, I was off with the fairies. I had parked in a very busy open air car park in the centre of Canberra. After we returned to the car and I had loaded all the kids in the car, I forgot to put our pram in the car and drove off. The next day I realised it wasn't in the boot when I wanted to use it again. Thought back to when I last used it and remembered I had it in that car park. Drove back there not expecting to find it but sure enough, there was the pram right where I left it over 24 hours earlier...

I have lived in Canberra since 2002 and I know only one person who has had a break in at their house. A junky broke through their laundry window, cutting himself to shreds in the process and bleeding all over their white carpet. He stole some coins in a dish and then left. The cops caught him a couple of hours later.

ACT Police publish quarterly crime stats for Canberra. Here are the stats for my suburb between 1 April 2014 - 31 March 2014.

Homicide

0

Assault

1

Sexual assault

0

Offences against a person

0

Burglary

4

Robbery

0

Theft (excluding Motor Vehicles)

6

Motor vehicle theft

0

Property damage

5

Other offences

6

Traffic Infringement Notices

2

Road fatality

0

Road collision with injury

0

Edited April 10, 2014 by Kurkprop

[Bronwyn&Co]

I just have to ask though - what gives any government the right to tell people they may not build walls in front of their houses? Are we living in North Korea?

Anybody else like me who hates living in a nanny state beware. I find it highly objectionable and in fact an unconstitutional violation of my rights.

There are even signs in our mall telling us to stay on the left of the escalators.

It's the principle. It's not good enough! Sorry.

[AndreaL]

I thought that yes, crime will have increased in the past 10 years because the population has increased dramatically, and we are probably more aware of crime in our areas because of social media..................taking Johnno's view that crime has increased in the past 10 years, and Fish's that it hasn't, I thought I would dig up some figures..............these are from the Australian Institute of Criminology.

Of the five categories of violent crime, four recorded a drop in the number of victims

between 2009 and 2010. These were homicide, assault, sexual assault and robbery.

3

Chapter 1: Recorded crime

•

The number of victims of kidnappings/abductions increased between 2009 and

2010 by 39 people. However, the number of kidnappings/abductions in 2010

represents a 23 percent decrease since a peak in 2008, when 788 kidnapping/

abductions were recorded.

•

Overall, the number of victims of homicide has been in decline since 1996. In 1996,

there were 354 victims of homicide in Australia compared with 260 in 2010. This is

a decrease of 27 percent.

•

Since 1996, assault has been the category of violent crime with the greatest number

of victims annually. In 2010, 171,083 people were the victim of assault in Australia.

•

The number of victims of robbery in 2010 is the lowest on record since 1996, with

14,582 victims. Robbery victim numbers peaked in 2001 with 26,591 victims.

•

Sexual assault victim numbers have been decreasing since 2008, by approximately

four percent per year

Over the seven year period 2003 to 2010, the number of victims across all violent

crimes has fluctuated, with no consistent pattern of increase or decrease being

evident

"

Property crime comprises UEWI (also referred to as break and enter or burglary),

MVT and ‘other’ theft, which includes offences such as pickpocketing, bag snatching,

shoplifting and bicycle theft"....................

Despite the number of victims decreasing since 2009 across all three categories,

Australia still experienced high levels of property crime in 2010.

•

There were 17,638 fewer victims of ‘other’ theft in 2010 than were recorded in 2009;

a four percent decrease.

•

The number of victims of MVT has been in a state of decline since 2001, when there

were 139,984 recorded victims compared with 54,736 victims in 2010. This is a total

decrease of 61 percent.

•

The 185,193 difference between the numbers of recorded victims of UEWI in 1996

and those in 2010 represented a 46 percent decline over the 15 year period.

Assault seems to have increased, most assaults are perpetrated by someone known to the victim.....................up to 54% murder victims knew their offender intimately, either as a partner or friend, 38% of female victims were killed by an intimate partner.

Only 13% of homicides are with a firearm, 39% with knives and the rest with a variety or unknown weapon.

Crime is very different here, both victims and perpetrators, http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/0/B/6/%7B0B619F44-B18B-47B4-9B59-F87BA643CBAA%7Dfacts11.pdf

[Kurkprop]

I just have to ask though - what gives any government the right to tell people they may not build walls in front of their houses? Are we living in North Korea?

Bronwyn the reason for fencing restrictions in Canberra is this:

"Generally, no fences are permitted forward of the front of a residence/building. The aim is to create pleasant, open streetscapes and support Canberra's garden city character."

https://www.canberraconnect.act.gov.au/app/answers/detail/a_id/95/~/residential-fence-information-for-the-act

I don't mind the fencing rule at all. I really like the open feel of the suburbs and was shocked when I returned to Pretoria. I had forgotten what it is like to live behind high walls/ fences with rolls of barbed wire everywhere. I don't think this makes it a nanny state at all, just a nice place to live

[Toitjie]

Hi Bronwyn - it has to do with the fact that Canberra is 100% a planned city, and something about keeping the aesthetic nature. I will read a little more up on it but I will say, it's a beautiful city and it's a joy driving around looking at houses without 6 foot fences and barbed wire all around.

[AndreaL]

There are rational arguments against surrounding properties with high fences and walls, mainly that crime increases, because intruders are better able to commit crime unseen, another argument is that too much security promotes a fortress mentality and that environmental design should reduce crime, while maintaining aesthetic appearance.

The obvious first choice is well lit front doors and walk ways and fewer things like large shrubs etc that crims can hide behind.

I think that open design encourages a sense of neighbourliness and community, you get to know your neighbours and are more aware if something doesn't seem right.

If I am away on bin pick-up day, usually one of my neighbours will put my bin back and keep an eye out for anything unusual.