IMPORTANT TO ME

[Karen-in-Brisbane]

I think Jenny's title reflects that her topic is IMPORTANT to her and she wants as many forumites as possible to read it so she gets a balanced view. Nothing wrong with it.

I think everyone should be supportive and honest as you all know how difficult this decision is for everyone to make.

Play fair!!!

[Good Witch]

Play fair!!!

That works BOTH ways... I do not think that Jenny is 'playing fair' with the title of her post. It is misleading...

[JennyG]

Andi, I'm just going to ignore what you said in your previous 2 posts. I see that you are trying to pick a fight here! Unfortunately for you, you picked the wrong person. I am a good spirited person who hates confrontation so sorry if I do not reply to your posts!

Cheers!

P.S. The moderators is more than welcome to chance the topic of the post. It is fine by me!

[JennyG]

I think Jenny's title reflects that her topic is IMPORTANT to her and she wants as many forumites as possible to read it so she gets a balanced view. Nothing wrong with it.

I think everyone should be supportive and honest as you all know how difficult this decision is for everyone to make.

Play fair!!!

Thanks K! You do know what I am going through!

[patrice]

Hi Jenny

We all were rather uncertian in this 'huge' decision, but ..... the facts are :

You asked this question on a number of previous posts,

going back

pulling out

then you devised this rather 'dramatic' post, which I believe is very misleading and therefore not honest. You then asked essentially the same question, and specified that you want 'honest' replies, in doing so, (in my opinion) you actually implied that the views you had already received were not honest (or at worst lies).

We are all here to help each other, each persons experience is very different, and playing 'fair' and respecting peoples views and their different experience is important, regardless of weather you agree or disagree.

Pointing out these facts is not 'picking a fight' as you were quick to assume, and telling some one (Andi & Gunther) who has taken the time to express their view, that you will ignore them is, again, not exactly very mature or respectful.

With respect, I believe the guys here have given you their honest views, which in my opinion, is more than you have given them.

I met a family on a flight back to perth recently, heard them talking africaans and introduced myself, I understood that they had their visa's, and were on a 'look-see' visit, to get their passports stamped (within the visa entry period), and by doing so, they now have a few years to decide before their visa's expire, as they too were very unsure of what to do, especially given the economic climate at the moment. Maybe something you should consider ?

Good luck with your decision and I hope the views and experience you have received (albeit by an intentionally misleading 'strategy') from the very helpfull guys here will help you make an informed decision.

Edited April 6, 2009 by patrice

[duToits]

I don't know how valuable my comments would be as we have only been here for just short of 3 months. Are we battling, yes, of course. The job market isnt what it was but both my husband and i have secured some sort of work despite that. We do miss family and friends and the comforts we had back home. We dont stock our fridge with food, we live day to day, we are renting the cheapest place we can afford and do not have a car. That said, i am happy here, my hubby is happy here and we wont go back.

Of course there are problems here, there are problems everywhere and if you want to move somewhere without problems, perhaps heaven would be right for you. There is no such thing as Utopia, but think about this... a top headline story here was when a 60 year old man was killed when crossing the road, he stepped in front of a vehicle and that was it. Would that even make news in South Africa? Maybe if it was a famous person. Then this well known judge lied to get out of a $70 speeding ticket or something like that and he faces a jail sentence....wouldn't you want to live in a place where you can voice your opinion, where the errors of governmet are addressed on tv and where you can happily sleep with your windows open or walk without constantly checking who may be following you. My greatest disturbance is the chattering of birds when the sun rises.

Thats my opinion anyway, but everyone needs to decide what is important to them and what they can cope with. The decision is the hard part, once you have made it stick with it and accept that either way, whatever you choose there will be consequences, that is life.

[polly]

I have to agree with Patrice. I feel the same way. Well put.

Jenny, this decision is something you guys will have to make. You are taking the risk and need to be responsible for your own decisions. We can't give you an easy 'out'. There are absolutely no guarantees in this, or in life. You are the one who will have to live with your decisions. I know it is hard and it is a HUGE responsibility, because it affects more than just yourself. Read through other posts, people's diaries, the posts about people returning, etc. Think hard about it and how you feel. If you are looking for reasons NOT to leave, then you are not ready to move. You cannot emigrate and try to keep the back door open for 'just in case'. Then you will fail.

[MannyT]

By the way! Did you guys see the amount of views this thread got!!

I can say my little research project was a SUCCESS!!

Any more comments are welcome!

Special thanks to the replies from the 'oldies' on this forum!

Interesting Jenny, very interesting, I wonder what the real intention of your original post was.

Andi & Gunther and Patrice have pretty much articulated my own thoughts regarding your original post.

Quote " I can say my little research project was a success" How did you arrive at that conclusion??. When I commenced my reply your post had received 81 replies (37 FROM YOU) and 2006 views, if that was your goal, then welll done.

I was rather bemused by your vain attempt to condition people and the tone of their responses, by your comments.

Nothing to hide nothing to fear.

Enjoy!

Manny

Edited April 7, 2009 by MannyT

[mikeb]

JennyR

So what if the title is misleading, it got my attention and was very interesting reading.

In my opinion "HansieSlimBergWilKlim" summed it up nicely.

Perhaps someone can explain why so much emphasis is placed on "immigration" and "permanent" ?

I don't know what immigration actually means......is it the right to live in another country or striving to

integrate and become something else by ignoring your roots ?

"Doesn't matter how long you live in China - you will never be Chinese !" dunno who said that but makes sense to me.

We have lived in many places and Australia will probably not be the last. Does it really matter if you come and

live here and then decide to move on for whatever reasons ?

Someone said that it is all about what stage of your life you are in and I tend to agree with that. If it provides

what you need at a particular stage of your life then live it. If circumstances change then there are plenty of

other places in the world to live in, all you need is a job and the will to go.

So maybe looking for the permanent one size fits all solution is not the way to go, perhaps it is simply a

matter of going for it if it feels right and not allowing anyone to make you feel guilty about your choices.

There seems to be a tendency amongst saffers to continually feel the need to justify their choices to one

another particularly wrt to AUS, no idea why ?

Been here a year and counting and yes there are many good and not so good things.

The major plus is that it is safe and secure and that pretty much outweighs the bad stuff for most people.

We find it a bit mono-cultural, isolated from the rest of world and very expensive to maintain the standard of

living that you may have had elsewhere. This in itself is not a bad thing as you do learn the difference between

things you want and things you need rather quickly !

We have PR and came to a job so it wasn't to hard.

For us maybe we will move on and return one day, who knows, whatever happens it will be a life lived and

hopefully a lot of fun along the way.

For now life is good in AUS :-)

mike

An aftertought :

It doesn't matter where you go politicians will always be dic$%@ads ?

The barbarians that have hijacked SA are not that different from politicians the world over except they are

so arrogant that they couldn't be bothered to hire a decent public relations machine to put a positive spin on

their actions.

[JennyG]

Hi Jenny

We all were rather uncertian in this 'huge' decision, but ..... the facts are :

You asked this question on a number of previous posts,

going back

pulling out

then you devised this rather 'dramatic' post, which I believe is very misleading and therefore not honest. You then asked essentially the same question, and specified that you want 'honest' replies, in doing so, (in my opinion) you actually implied that the views you had already received were not honest (or at worst lies).

Hi Patrice, did you ever think that perhaps I did not get all the answers from my previous two threads, or more perhaps these two threads that you are referring to opened some more questions for me.

Re the dishonesty and misleading. As I said before it was merely a strategy. With this 'dramatic' topic as you all say I got a lot of views and with that a lot of responses. I am in sales and marketing and sometimes one use methods to draw people attention. So crucify me for this!

[JennyG]

Interesting Jenny, very interesting, I wonder what the real intention of your original post was.

Quote " I can say my little research project was a success" How did you arrive at that conclusion: When I commenced my reply your post had received 81 replies (37 FROM YOU) and 2006 views, if that was your goal, then welll done.

What do you mean Manny with what the real intention of my original post was? I got what I searched for and I can also gladly say that with this post I helped a lot op others too! I received HUGE support! From Pm's and personnel emails. Again I want to make use of this opportunity to thank those ones who contributed in my search for the REAL LIFE IN AUS.

Re the research project: I did not say that to brag! Do you think my life is so sad that I will deliberately put a thread on this post to get the most views??? Hey Manny, I can guarantee you my life is much more excited than that!

[JennyG]

I was rather bemused by your vain attempt to condition the tone of the responses by your comments.

Ouch! That hurts! Hope you feel good about this comment you made! Not even gonna try and defend myself with what you said here!

[JennyG]

I don't know how valuable my comments would be as we have only been here for just short of 3 months. Are we battling, yes, of course. The job market isnt what it was but both my husband and i have secured some sort of work despite that. We do miss family and friends and the comforts we had back home. We dont stock our fridge with food, we live day to day, we are renting the cheapest place we can afford and do not have a car. That said, i am happy here, my hubby is happy here and we wont go back.

Of course there are problems here, there are problems everywhere and if you want to move somewhere without problems, perhaps heaven would be right for you. There is no such thing as Utopia, but think about this... a top headline story here was when a 60 year old man was killed when crossing the road, he stepped in front of a vehicle and that was it. Would that even make news in South Africa? Maybe if it was a famous person. Then this well known judge lied to get out of a $70 speeding ticket or something like that and he faces a jail sentence....wouldn't you want to live in a place where you can voice your opinion, where the errors of governmet are addressed on tv and where you can happily sleep with your windows open or walk without constantly checking who may be following you. My greatest disturbance is the chattering of birds when the sun rises.

Thats my opinion anyway, but everyone needs to decide what is important to them and what they can cope with. The decision is the hard part, once you have made it stick with it and accept that either way, whatever you choose there will be consequences, that is life.

Hi J&J, you comments are very valuable to me as with all the others!

Yes, I released that Aus also has it good shares of problems. At least the news headlines are not that dramatic as in SA!

Thanks for your input!

[JennyG]

JennyR

So what if the title is misleading, it got my attention and was very interesting reading.

In my opinion "HansieSlimBergWilKlim" summed it up nicely.

Perhaps someone can explain why so much emphasis is placed on "immigration" and "permanent" ?

I don't know what immigration actually means......is it the right to live in another country or striving to

integrate and become something else by ignoring your roots ?

"Doesn't matter how long you live in China - you will never be Chinese !" dunno who said that but makes sense to me.

We have lived in many places and Australia will probably not be the last. Does it really matter if you come and

live here and then decide to move on for whatever reasons ?

Someone said that it is all about what stage of your life you are in and I tend to agree with that. If it provides

what you need at a particular stage of your life then live it. If circumstances change then there are plenty of

other places in the world to live in, all you need is a job and the will to go.

So maybe looking for the permanent one size fits all solution is not the way to go, perhaps it is simply a

matter of going for it if it feels right and not allowing anyone to make you feel guilty about your choices.

There seems to be a tendency amongst saffers to continually feel the need to justify their choices to one

another particularly wrt to AUS, no idea why ?

Been here a year and counting and yes there are many good and not so good things.

The major plus is that it is safe and secure and that pretty much outweighs the bad stuff for most people.

We find it a bit mono-cultural, isolated from the rest of world and very expensive to maintain the standard of

living that you may have had elsewhere. This in itself is not a bad thing as you do learn the difference between

things you want and things you need rather quickly !

We have PR and came to a job so it wasn't to hard.

For us maybe we will move on and return one day, who knows, whatever happens it will be a life lived and

hopefully a lot of fun along the way.

For now life is good in AUS :-)

mike

An aftertought :

It doesn't matter where you go politicians will always be dic$%@ads ?

The barbarians that have hijacked SA are not that different from politicians the world over except they are

so arrogant that they couldn't be bothered to hire a decent public relations machine to put a positive spin on

their actions.

Thanks Mike! I do not understand myself what the fuss is all about the the 'misleading heading'?? In that way I got your attention which I am very glad for! Wow! You surely start making me think about this going to Oz thing in a different way! And you are SO right!! If I do decide to go to Aus and don't like it, no one forces me to stay!! Wow, suddenly I feel like this huge burden is off my shoulders! Very insightful post! Thank you!

And yes indeed! Hansie also put it PERFECTLY!!

P.S. One thing that someone mentioned to me one day that I forgot about was that Aus is isolated from the rest of the world. Something to think about!

[MayC]

In short, I'm not going to go in detail into every PM I received cause that will take ages! It was just interesting for me that people coming forward and admitting they are not happy in Oz. And this is not hear say! I think a lot of people are scared to voice their true opinions! Anyway, there is stories of marriages breaking up because one of the partners doesn't cope. People having tremendous problems with teenagers. People see that their children is changing for the bad. Some of the schools is not up to standard and some say it is even worse than schools in SA. Some also has a problem with the health system. Struggling to find jobs. Being treated unfairly at work because you are an immigrant. There is also some people that say they wish SA will collapse so that it can justify their move. Some people who was financially strong in SA and lost everything in Oz due to bad business deals. People being affected by crime in Oz. Now I must stop because I'm going to get slammed for this!!

Please people, I'm not sucking this out of my thumb. This is stories from people that PM me. And now you would say that if Oz is so bad why do you want to move over? Because, bad and evil is everywhere. Oz is definitely far better than SA re crime, corruption, safety etc etc. Once again, I want to hear the bad so that I can prepare myself! Thats all!

If you want to hear more than you can PM me. Don't want to give the idea that I'm starting a anti-Oz thing here!

Hi JennyR

I've been following the progress on this site for some time, and MANY people have asked the questions you are asking. In my opinion - YOU CAN'T ASK ENOUGH! and I completely understand how everyone continues to raise this issue. No matter how many times I see the same questions and responses, I need to hear it often in order to collate as much information as possible and align my expectations with reality. Because I am still in ZA, it is difficult for me to compare my day-do-day activities in ZA and imagine them in OZ. I especially like your questions:

- Treated differently at work because you are an immigrant

- What is the health care like compared to ZA. Availability and quality

- Partners and children not coping

These are very interesting questions and I have not seen much feedback - specifically on healthcare: what are the doctors like, are you able to get an appointment easily, quality of hospitals, accissibility of hospitals i.e. if you need surgery (do you have waiting lists, similare to Canada) etc. etc. etc.

As a newby, and someone who reads this site daily, I find ALL your posts informative and I encourage you to continue asking questions over and over again....whether you know it or not....you are doing it on my behalf as well.

Kind regards

May

[Karen-in-Brisbane]

Well said May!!!! My thoughts exactly.

K

[JennyG]

Hi May! Thank you! I received a lot of mails from other people still in SA who said they are grateful for the amount of information shared! So I am glad this is not only helping me!

You are right! There is still some untouched issues like the health system in Aus. What I received was that the government health system is not up to standard. Now, I do not know but perhaps this differ from state to state. With some of the feedback I received was that with some doctors you can't make an appointment with. You go and sit and wait until one can see you. Sometimes you have to wait for weeks and weeks if you want to see a specialist. But on the other hand someone told me that if it is an emergency you'll get an appointment in a day or 2. Mmmmmmmmmmmm let me think what else. Oh yes, dentist - extremely expensive!

That is the info I received. Maybe the other forum-ates can enlighten us a bit more on this. I will advise if you do not get adequate response here to start a separate thread for this - one with a less misleading topic Or maybe you should go back on previous threads - I do not know if this been touch on before!

As for the treated different because you are a immigrant. Almost think it has been mentioned before. Can't recall the thread topic.

Partners not coping. Yes, most definitely. A lot of cases that either the husband or wife is happy and the other one not. This put tremendous stress on marriages. Heard of marriages breaking up because of this. I also think that if a marriage is a bit shaky before you go than this whole immigration thing just put some more stress on a marriage. That my opinion.

Children - seems to me some adapt very well and some not. Few Saffers unhappy with their teens.

Hope this helps and that others can contribute to May's questions or perhaps start a new thread!

[Good Witch]

Hi JennyR

I've been following the progress on this site for some time, and MANY people have asked the questions you are asking. In my opinion - YOU CAN'T ASK ENOUGH! and I completely understand how everyone continues to raise this issue. No matter how many times I see the same questions and responses, I need to hear it often in order to collate as much information as possible and align my expectations with reality. Because I am still in ZA, it is difficult for me to compare my day-do-day activities in ZA and imagine them in OZ. I especially like your questions:

- Treated differently at work because you are an immigrant

- What is the health care like compared to ZA. Availability and quality

- Partners and children not coping

These are very interesting questions and I have not seen much feedback - specifically on healthcare: what are the doctors like, are you able to get an appointment easily, quality of hospitals, accissibility of hospitals i.e. if you need surgery (do you have waiting lists, similare to Canada) etc. etc. etc.

As a newby, and someone who reads this site daily, I find ALL your posts informative and I encourage you to continue asking questions over and over again....whether you know it or not....you are doing it on my behalf as well.

Kind regards

May

May,

Nobody is disputing Jenny's right to ask, and ask and ask again, that is exactly what this forum is here for! Objection has however been made at things like the misleading title she used, and her very dubious motives (not to mention her insinuations that previous responses to the same question posed by her on 2 other threads were dishonest.)

If future forumites hope to gain answers from this post,it is unlikely that they will find it using the search facility under the current title of: IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT, PLEASE READ, PLEASE READ, PLEASE READ... in any event, which defeats the object.

There are people who's 457 visas have expired and who may very well be forced to leave Aus soon as a result, people who are in REAL trouble, who's cases are REALLY urgent and who need support and help from members on this forum. When we see a post containing a dramatic and highly misleading title as this one posted by Jenny does, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth to discover that it is NOT as urgent as the title suggests, this is called 'crying wolf.'

[MayC]

JennyR...forgot to add:

Don't get involved in catfights, most people skip over certain posts and move on to the ones which are helpful. When I see one of your posts, I assume you're going to say something interesting - don't give me unnecessary reading...please...

best regards

May

[JennyG]

Hi May!

Noted!

Jen

[Karen-in-Brisbane]

Andi - I really think you are over-reacting.

I am sure Jenny's motives were without any form of negativity.

[Antoinette]

Some helpfull advice

There are many people on this forum who are very anxious about their applications and futures. Jenny's strategy was to abuse and pry on these fears to get attention. It is distastefull and dishonest. Jenny skat. You belong in South Africa where dishonesty and selfimportance can be called strategy.

AND, any person who asks for third-hand stories to base their decicions upon, will believe anything they are told so why bother.

Poplap, my first impression was that you are a stirrer, or a troll. I still feel the same.

Everybody has a story. Everybody's story is equally important. Have you ever for once considered what the forum would be like if everybody behaved like you. Like little prima donnas who had an anxiety attack. Trust me you are not the first to have an anxiety attack, but you are the first to act as if Australia has just declared that it is closing its borders.

As for being nice..

Grrrr...!

So here is my advice:

It is great here.

No wait, it's not.

O no, it really is.

Now I am not so sure.

No, it really sucks here, you must definately not come.

Come. Drop everything and come.

There, I hope I've helped you make up your mind!

I can tell you a lot of negative stories. You know what. We do not dwell on them because we know what is important to us in life and we get that here. You should try that someday instead of trying to figure out why people are going to Oz. One thing they do not like here in Oz is people who seek attention. Good luck, skattie.

[JennyG]

My pleasure Jill!

I knew this post will help me and others! And I am SO thankful for all the wonderful, insightful replies I got! And WITH NO FIGHTS! So you guys are the

As I said before! Think I should consider moving cause by the looks of it all the nice South Africans is now in Oz

Oh boy! I can see what is happening here! The devil is playing tricks and I am not going to give him the satisfaction!

Please, also as asked by May, only post useful information!

Have a blessed day!

Jen

[Antoinette]

Oh boy! I can see what is happening here! The devil is playing tricks and I am not going to give him the satisfaction!

Have a blessed day!

Jen

The only one who played any tricks was you!

[Riekie]

Jenny, the bottom line is: immigration is not an exact science so you'll always have various opinions on every aspect thereof. As far as migration goes, 1+1 is not 2, so you will never get the "right" answer. It is impossible to make a list of questions and put one correct answer against it.

People experience everything differently and even coming to Australia is a breeze for some (got the job, the visa, the paid airline tickets, paid removal etc.) and a nightmare for others (no job, no money, 4 suitcases and loads of enthusiasm). The answers you'll get will be based on all these individual experiences and no answer will be the same - however, everything everyone share on this forum comes from the heart and is the honest opinion the way they see & experience things. To mention one example : People who'd been here 6 months, who still battle to make friends will naturally be a bit more sceptic about friendships, whereas people who'd been here for 5 years, will rave about their wonderful and huge circle of friends. Although their opinions are different, it is the honest truth from their point of view.

You should also remember that people are more likely to share good news than bad news. People generally don't tell the whole world that they had a nervous breakdown but will shout from the rooftops when their Visa is approved. It is only human and its not because they want to keep the truth from anyone.

The thing is: you will never know all the answers and definitely not until you get here and experience things for yourself. All you can do is to trust your own decision and have an open mind about the rest.