IMPORTANT TO ME

[Rison]

Hi there

I never doubted my decision to come to Australia but there were many highs and lows during the immigration process. I ask myself, when does this process end? When you get Citizenship?

On paper maybe, but emotionally it continues. I think you will always get different answers, because our experiences and views change as we go through every stage of the immigration process. For me it remains a day to day affair while I re-establish my life in Australia. The thing is, you really begin all over again. This may sound exciting, but VERY VERY HARD to do. What comforts me is to see how many South Africans have successfully adapted to Australia (and you see them everywhere) and they are well accepted by Australians. You should be thinking - 'well if they made it, so can we'

Riaan

[JennyG]

Hi JennyR

You are about to make a life changing decision and you are correct to be very scared. You have no idea what you are letting yourself in for. There are two factors you have to consider. The first is the push factor and the second is the pull factor. If the push factor is not strong enough you will regret immigrating to Aus because when times get tough (and they will) you will need this push factor to fall back on in your mind and to reassure yourself that you have done the right thing. It’s good if there is a strong pull factor also. Like being offered your dream job or having a company sponsor your move. You know, some wonderful opportunity that you just can’t say no to.

A little bit about my situation. This year was my 20th anniversary of being in Aus. I came out with my husband in 1989. We took up citizenship as soon as we could. We also kept our SA citizenship and this has been a good decision for us as we go back to visit quite often. I have never given up my SA roots and never will. It is who I am. My family are all there and they don’t have any intention of leaving and I have never put pressure on them to make the move either.

My only child was born here 14 years ago. I didn't have any more because I couldn't afford the child care. I am petrified that he is going to turn into one of the unruly yobs that I see each and every day. But I don’t think he will because I am throwing every single resource I can think of his way. Like a good education, teaching moral values, manners, monitoring his circle of friends etc. It’s hard work. Especially when you are doing it yourselves as parents and don’t have the family network to support you.

The ‘novelty’ factor of life in Aus has well and truly worn off and I find myself finding fault with the place (exactly as the born and bred Aussies do). Like my taxes being wasted on stupid things and the calibre of politicians we have to vote for. Or all the red tape you have to go through to get anything done. Or the increasing crime and violence.

Just to give you an example this is my life in a nutshell at the moment: I am working full time so that we can afford to send my son to a very posh and extremely expensive private school. My husband is self employed and works long hours and travels a lot. This has enabled us to buy a home (we came here with nothing), go on lovely overseas trips and being able to pay all our bills.

I spend my week-ends shopping, doing housework, phoning family, sorting out paperwork and feeling guilty about not doing a million other things that I have been putting off. I have a few nice hobbies that I very rarely get a chance to enjoy because here just isn’t enough time in the day. We have a beautiful beach nearby but I am too tired to go. It’s a schlep getting the sand out of the car afterwards, washing the towels, cleaning the dog, so I don’t bother. There are beautiful parks to enjoy. They have lots and lots of gumtrees. And I am getting pretty sick and tired of gumtrees. Last night I was ironing until 9.30pm. This morning I will add to the ironing pile again with more washing. We’ll go out to lunch as a family today at a nice cafe with perhaps a glass of wine each and a good coffee afterwards. This will set us back about $150.

Trivial things like if your neighbours are nice or not (you are not always going to have the same ones), or the fact that you can see kids in the street on their bicycles (these same cute kids will turn into teenagers in a few years time and try and explode your wheelie bin or your post box). What I am trying to get at is that things change constantly. You will grow and change as well. Depending on what stage of your life you are in, Aus is not going to satisfy your needs at each and every stage of your life. Bad things will happen to you here too. We have been burgled 4 times over the years, our car windows smashed and I was hit by a car while out cycling. There is risk and danger in each and every country.

Yes there are big gaps in the health system. 95% of government schools are not up to expectations. Some private schools are better but even in these so called good schools your child will be exposed to the ‘great unwashed’. The cost of living is high. The dentists are mostly hopeless. The doctors are inadequate. But on the plus side my son has wonderful opportunities for his future here (I just hope he appreciates it and does something with his life).

Yes we have done the right thing coming here. Yes I would do it again. But the sadness of not being able to drop in at my sister’s house for a cup of tea or sharing birthday parties and Christmas with my family has a huge impact. Depression is a very real risk. Good luck with your decision.

Hi Hansie Slim

Well described! That is the thing! The pull factor is absent!

Wow! 20 years in Oz! Now this is what makes my research 100% worth it! Talking to people thats been in Oz for years and years!

My greatest fear is also my daughter that will turn out one of those teens in Oz. Thanks to Mara she set some of those fears at ease.

Re the burglaries, you see! I was so uninformed before I start asking all this questions. I really thought that there was no crime in Oz! Sorry for sounding so naive!

And my push factor - the fact that my daughter will have a future! Better than in SA!

This was a very nice post! Thanks for the effort you put into it! This will help a lot!

[JennyG]

If possible, I would recommend doing an LSD trip, just to get a feel for things in general. Then one can come home again and let thoughts settle. I must admit after being home in South Africa for a week, I am a nervous wreck again worrying about crime, and on my holiday in Oz this was not much of a worry, except occasionally. Things are different in Oz, like the style of housing, and even the sky sometimes seemed very different - the way I feel when I get to Cape Town on holiday, ha, ha, but it's to be expected, but is it okay for You.

Oz is a different country, and totally different culturally, but I don't even know how different yet, as I haven't experienced much of real Australians. I just hope there are only a few Australians like some of the rude adults I experienced on my plane trip home, that whinged and gave dirty looks each time a child bumped their chairs (which I know would irritate anyone). And we did speak to quite a few Australians, when we filled up with petrol, who seemed very friendly and down to earth too - but put them on a plane perhaps, hmmm...

At the end of the day it comes down to what is important to you, something someone always wisely tells me are "Values". As an example, if crime and safety are concerns to you here, then rate these Values across the two countries, and Oz will come out tops on this score. But if you have lots of family here, and family is a number 1 Value for you, then you might be desperately unhappy in Oz. I'm still going to have to do this exercise myself, but it is actually quite a difficult thing to do - it helps one in trying to be a bit more objective. So list those Values, then rank them, and rate them.

I loved the analogy about the push / pull factor. I think this is a great way of looking at it!

And I wish there was a crystal ball. I recommend reading www.news.com.au daily, to keep up with some of the news happening in Oz, especially where you are planning to settle.

Good luck!

Hi Nazba!

We'll definately do a LSD trip!

I also thought the analogy of the push/pull factor was brilliant!

Thanks for the tip re reading the news! Something I'm gonna start doing! Haven't thought about that one!!

Thanks once again!

[Jill]

Hi,

Just wanted to say to Hansieslim thanks for that wonderful post, very interesting to read and very well written and expressed.

Thank you for sharing, and to Jenny, thanks for this post, which everyone seemed to be nervous to respond to in the beginning, but being in Australia and living the rollercoaster is really tough, sometimes you feel very alone and this has been a really good topic for everyone just to be honest and say how they feel, to share and get the support, you feel so much better to know everyone goes through the same emotions.

So keep it going, also good to see we have got to page 4 with no real arguing, friction etc.

Jill

[JennyG]

I have been reading this topic avidly! I tend to agree with Hansie, Red, Polly well the list goe's on!!! JennyR I am still in SA, I have 3 daughters under 10 and when I look at them the answer of what I need to do is plain as day!!!

Take a step back and look around you will new eye's Thing's are not getting better here!!

We will be leaving family as well, but what I will miss the most is the nature! The wildlife, the fact that my kids might not see an elephant in the wild again But when I weigh it up! Really!!

We are English speaking South Africans ( Gonna open a can of worms) apparently we are not really african or worthy of being here according to our "future President"!!! So what is left for us in this country! I like many others before me and many to come will take my chances and VISA with open hands, and if I someday have enough money for a trip home so be it!!!!

My 2c!!!

Joanne

Thanks Joanne, also nice to hear the views of the people still in SA. Agree! Can't see things getting better here! Especially with this new president of ours you know !

[JennyG]

I agree with this 100% and it's been my advise to everyone who asked me for my opinion over the last almost 5 years. You'd be a fool not to do your research and talk to others who'd been there. That's why this forum is here after all, and it's good that you want to know everything about emigration (the good, the bad & the ugly).

What you can not do, is base your decision on what other people tell you. That's where the wheels usually come off... No one can guarantee you success, happiness and a good life. If you decide to stay or go, based on what you read on this forum, you're setting yourself up for a rude awakening.

Before you even start to think about life in Australia (the good, the bad & the ugly). You must sit down and think long and hard about your decision to leave South Africa. If you are not in your mind convinced that it is the right thing to do for you and your family, you are not ready. I know it sounds harsh, but that's the reality.

Once you've made that decision, stick to it and go for it (the good, the bad & the ugly). Don't worry about all the rest if you haven't yet come to a decision. It is much more important that you are realistic about your move and that you prepare yourself emotionally. You need to sit down as a family and discuss your fears and anticipation and decide how you will deal with it when it comes to any of that. Prepare yourself for a worst-case scenario and know that it IS going to be difficult and painful and emotionally draining and challenging at times. Decide on a "time-out" action plan when things DO go pear-shaped and you start to doubt your decision.

The biggest road accidents are made because of indecision. Either "go" or "stop". If your reason for leaving is serious enough, it does not matter where the road takes you.

Good luck! It's not easy, I know.

And I am SO glad I start my research Riekie! I was getting so frustrated with this loooooooooong wait of the application, meanwhile I didn't realise that it is actually a good thing! If I had to move over as soon as I started to think about immigration I would have been in for a HUGE surprise!

Prepare for the worse-case scenario - good advice!

Thanks Riekie!

[JennyG]

Hi there

I never doubted my decision to come to Australia but there were many highs and lows during the immigration process. I ask myself, when does this process end? When you get Citizenship?

On paper maybe, but emotionally it continues. I think you will always get different answers, because our experiences and views change as we go through every stage of the immigration process. For me it remains a day to day affair while I re-establish my life in Australia. The thing is, you really begin all over again. This may sound exciting, but VERY VERY HARD to do. What comforts me is to see how many South Africans have successfully adapted to Australia (and you see them everywhere) and they are well accepted by Australians. You should be thinking - 'well if they made it, so can we'

Riaan

Hi Riaan!

The process never ends! Yeah, you are right! You see, in the beginning immigration was a thrill to me - living in a foreign country, new job, new life! I thought wow! This is gonna be exciting! Soon I release that its not going to be a holiday but very very hard!

Thanks for your input!

[JennyG]

Hi,

Just wanted to say to Hansieslim thanks for that wonderful post, very interesting to read and very well written and expressed.

Thank you for sharing, and to Jenny, thanks for this post, which everyone seemed to be nervous to respond to in the beginning, but being in Australia and living the rollercoaster is really tough, sometimes you feel very alone and this has been a really good topic for everyone just to be honest and say how they feel, to share and get the support, you feel so much better to know everyone goes through the same emotions.

So keep it going, also good to see we have got to page 4 with no real arguing, friction etc.

Jill

My pleasure Jill!

I knew this post will help me and others! And I am SO thankful for all the wonderful, insightful replies I got! And WITH NO FIGHTS! So you guys are the

As I said before! Think I should consider moving cause by the looks of it all the nice South Africans is now in Oz

[lemoen]

We are English speaking South Africans ( Gonna open a can of worms) apparently we are not really african or worthy of being here according to our "future President"!!! So what is left for us in this country! I like many others before me and many to come will take my chances and VISA with open hands, and if I someday have enough money for a trip home so be it!!!!

Joanne

Must be a Xhosa or Zulu I s'pose

[JennyG]

By the way! Did you guys see the amount of views this thread got!!

I can say my little research project was a SUCCESS!!

Any more comments are welcome!

Special thanks to the replies from the 'oldies' on this forum!

[patrice]

Hi Jenny

The guys on this site will always help - even when they have been 'mis-lead' by such a 'dramatic' post heading > huge number of 'hits' show how concerned and helpful the guys are - but then I don't have to tell you about honesty or "call wolf...."

[mom of 3]

Must be a Xhosa or Zulu I s'pose

Oh NO!! Fires!!! Must be Afrikaans speaking South Africans!!!! The English are out and the Afrikaans are in!!! Zuma had some speech in Oranje or some place!!! So ........!

Joanne

[lemoen]

Oh NO!! Fires!!! Must be Afrikaans speaking South Africans!!!! The English are out and the Afrikaans are in!!! Zuma had some speech in Oranje or some place!!! So ........!

Joanne

I have just read about it (news24). Statements like that may cause major difficulties, especially within a 3rd world country with political followers that equates everything their leaders states to gospel and act accordingly to it too....In a country like South Africa, people might even be murdered/raped/assaulted the groups highlighted as non African or due to the fact that they are of a certain cultural background, be it English, Portuguese, Jewish, Indian or whatever... it is disastrous to have a first world constitution in a third world country.... as the punishment never fit the crime.....you can kill, be brutal, but the same treatment may never be dished out to you, as you have human rights that is enshrined in the constitution....forget the broken bodies, and the hurt and desperation that was caused by your criminal act, just remind the coppers about your basic human rights...I just love South Africa...

[lemoen]

Suppose the South African constitution is to be considered before making your decision, who would want to leave all that freedom and civil liberties behind.... Young girls and boys get raped at the drop of a hat, and AIDS are rife, and do not forget, in order to cure HIV, sleep with a virgin, not older than 5, and if that is not successful, have a shower; eat lots of garlic and whatever... Is there a choice, if you can leave, do so for the children’s sake...Sorry, ranting and raving, just get so pissed if I see what is happening to a place I used to call home...

[polly]

Can we ask the moderators to change the topic to reflect the content of the post please?

[Queensland Girl]

Hi All

I think Jenny is aware of the problems in South Africa, but needs more information on the "good the bad and the ugly" of Australia. Lets answer her question.

Thanks

[thehulls]

Hi All

I think Jenny is aware of the problems in South Africa, but needs more information on the "good the bad and the ugly" of Australia. Lets answer her question.

Thanks

I think that has been more than adequetly done during the posts on this topic as well as the PM's that have been sent to Jenny and in many previous posts and topics. However, the fact of the matter is that you need to a comparison of SA and Oz to show many peoples reasoning why it is so much better in Oz.

Regards,

Liesl

[CindyB]

Hi Jenny

If I may ask, what exactly give you second thoughts and what exactly in Oz made you feel reconsidering going over. Obviously something had to trigger your thoughts and something must have make you to have second thoughts? Maybe people can give their opinions better if you give more specific reasons then asking their opinions about Oz in general.

Edited April 5, 2009 by Riekie

[CindyB]

Hi Jenny

This is also an interresting topic to read : http://www.saaustralia.org/index.php?showt...&hl=mondays

And this topic http://www.saaustralia.org/index.php?showt...&hl=fridays

Edited April 5, 2009 by Cinderella

[Gizmo]

So what is Australia like?

It is really difficult to answer this question - we all have our own experience and this is not necessarily directly related to what living in Australia is like, because it is all personal opinion, individual experience and living up to personal expectations. (Many times what one person thinks is good, another complains about).

Our negative (individual) experience:

We arrived November. I came over with a job, hubby without. Hubby has been unable to find a job so far, and I ended up in the most awful work environment imaginable. Does this mean Aus is bad? No, its our individual experience thus far. The general world economy and one shitty employer doesn't say anything about the country at all. This could have happened absolutely anywhere.

Our positive (individual) experience:

Everything else. We are very social people and have found it relatively easy to make friends (even with Aussies). I would say though that the making friends (particularly with Aussies) part is something that the majority of people battle with (but this won't necessarily be a problem for you).

We love the lifestyle here, the freedom etc. We haven't experienced the "hoon problem" or alcohol or drug problems or graffiti problems - but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist - it probably has a lot to do with the area we are living in. Its a very family-orientated area just outside of the city.

Everything here works, everybody obeys the rules - but this may not be positive for everybody. A lot of immigrants are irritated by all the rules - they like the SA approach to speed limits and drinking (its more "guidelines" - even though you are penalized in SA, nobody gives a hoot and everybody ignores the rules). Here, (in general) people drive the speed limit - people don't drink and drive. Its all about give and take - you want a crime-free lifestyle? Then, yes, there have to be rules.

Our standard of living has dropped, but, once we are both working, our standard of living will actually be higher than in SA (we were both working there). Again though - this is not the case for everyone - it depends enormously on what you do for a living. (In SA my job covered our groceries - over here, my salary can support my family).

The public facilities here are amazing! They are clean, plentiful and beautiful! You don't need an enormous garden because there are so many wonderful parks that have fantastic play equipment and barbecue facilities etc. Some Saffers here don't see that though - they battle to get their heads around the idea of not having their own personal, private outdoor space. They find it odd that people meet up for a barbecue at public facilities. These things have a reason - there is no cheap labour - you want a huge garden? Be prepared to maintain it yourself! You won't have the time. The meeting friends at public facilities is not that foreign by the way - if you cast your mind back to SA twenty years ago, we did that with our families as kids. Who from Cape Town here remembers Sunday picnic braais at Tokai forest? Driving up to Bains Kloof for the day for a picnic? etc

If you are the type of person who is flexible and is prepared to embrace a slightly different way of life, then my opinion is that you will love it here. If you want a mini-SA over here, you will probably be disappointed. This is not SA, it is Australia.

Our personal expectations of Australia was a country where we could raise our daughter without concern for falling education standards. We wanted to live in a place where we can go cycling through beautiful maintained parks, go on family outings and picnics without fear or negative experience. We live in an apartment which is a far cry from the huge house we used to live in. Even when we are both working, we will probably end up in a modest house at best (unless we are prepared to live far far away from the City - which we are not). BUT, this is not important to us! To us, lifestyle is about the freedom we experience and the incredible outdoors recreational opportunities over here.

It is not about the size of house, it is about the quality of environment.

I may not like my job, but I LOVE it here and I could never go back.

Edited April 5, 2009 by Gizmo

[JennyG]

but then I don't have to tell you about honesty or "call wolf...."

Hi Patrice!

It don't think it is dishonesty! I call it strategy!

Thank you!

[JennyG]

Hi Jenny

If I may ask, what exactly give you second thoughts and what exactly in Oz made you feel reconsidering going over

Of course you may ask Cinderella!!

It all started with me placing a thread re wanting to pull out off my PR application. I think it was the waiting game that started to get to me! The response on my thread was overwhelming. A lot o people tried to motivate me NOT to do it, but than suddenly I received quit a few PM's (unfortunately can't mention any names) of people telling me things about Aus that I never knew, or thought about. Some of these people has been long in Oz, some been only there a few months, some returned to SA. People telling me how terribly unhappy they are. Than all this doubts started............................

Cinderella, I received a lot of info lately, and if I would say all in all Oz is a better place than SA. What I think is that some people move over without having enough info of what the place is really about. If I would have moved over when I started to think about immigrating - boy oh boy I would have been in for a BIG surprise. What I am trying to say that I thought that Oz is a fairytale land, but just like SA have its problems! Well, not things like rape, murder, AA etc etc but other things like drugs, burglaries, problem teenagers, bad schools etc etc.

So this thread I posted was only a quest to search for the truth! And I got it!

Hope this answers your question!

[JennyG]

Hi Jenny

This is also an interresting topic to read : http://www.saaustralia.org/index.php?showt...&hl=mondays

And this topic http://www.saaustralia.org/index.php?showt...&hl=fridays

Thanks, I will read it!

[JennyG]

If you are the type of person who is flexible and is prepared to embrace a slightly different way of life, then my opinion is that you will love it here. If you want a mini-SA over here, you will probably be disappointed. This is not SA, it is Australia.

Thank you Gizmo! This is exactly what I thought - Oz being a mini SA! See how uninformed I was!

Embrace a different life - thanks for this point!

[Good Witch]

Hi Patrice!

It don't think it is dishonesty! I call it strategy!

Thank you!

No Jenny, I have to agree here with Patrice. I too feel that your 'strategy' was at best an attention seeking exercise (by your own admission in the very first sentence of your original post) and at worst a 'cry wolf' situation. Your topic title is offensive because this is NOT an emergency, it is NOT as important as what your title says it is, and yes, absolutely everyone has been compelled to read your post because the forumites here are helpful, caring individuals. I might add here, that all forumites offer their time and advice voluntarily, therefore demands made (as your post does) are not appreciated. You have misled us with your title, and that is what Patrice is calling 'dishonest.' Instead of gloating as you are, you should ask the moderators to change the title of your post to something that reflects the subject matter - as suggested by someone else on this thread.

So, you got a lot of 'hits' on your post. So what..? Was THAT your goal? If so, congratulations. You did it! Wooohooo!