Not so settled

[UnsureGC]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum and been living in Australia for 3.5 years now.

I was just wondering if there is anyone else out there considering moving back to SA? If so please tell me your story... I have been living overseas for 8 years in total now and I still miss my family and SA terribly. I have been home every year since leaving to travel so I am fully aware of everything changing and happening there.

Please don't reply to this message if you are going to try and convince me that SA is a terrible place, I just really want to hear from other people that may be feeling the same way as me and how they are dealing with it.

Look forward to hearing from you

[Alrae Goodall]

hi Unsure GC,

Hi

Many thoughts flash through my mind as I read this, but will just share one that is uppermost.

What is happening in SA is no media circus - the only way people continue with their lives and continue to live a semblance of a normal, happy life is to keep their heads buried and not acknowledge what is going on. The media does not tell half of what is going on.

My brother was killed in Nov 2007 (he was chairing a disciplinary hearing as the manager of the company and when the outcome was not favourable, the employee simply killed him - there in the board room!!) Sound shocking? I was still living in SA at the time and was appalled to hear from my friend that a similar crime had occured only four days previously. I was guilty (as everyone is) of not even absorbing this news.

What has happened since then ... has there been action to change the rules for disciplinary hearings, perhaps a weapon search ??

No, SA does nothing. Barely even reported in the news.

No, the reality is my sister-in-law and two children are living in fear that this criminal will be released - that is the reality of the legal system. Some policeman will loose the paperwork/whatever. In the past, me ever miss positive, has thought Nonsense, things like that are not possible - my experiences (having been in SA until Jan 2008) have taught me nothing is impossible -

However, they need to continue to live and live a happy life, so they do what they can to ignore the problem and that is how South Africans cope -NOT BY CREATING A SENSATION. Believe me, everything you read in the media, you can multiply it if you want the truth!!

Regards Alrae

I know how you feel...some parts of OZ aren't so great...I have been here for 4 years, and many people in SA, as well as the media say that the crime or just life and services are appalling.

I think its a media circus, where many try to discredit SA< and its current government, not that i am supporting the current government in any way. This hype about 2010 is one thing many people say SA is going to crumble; I say that it is an opportunity to grow.

About basic services in SA, if the Government that handed over 14 years ago provided better services for the masses, there wouldnt be such a problem now; with the majority of 14 years ago being settled into homelands and other townships; and the opposition being framed for acts of terrorism is one thing that prevents the current ogvernemtn from providing the best service. If the previous generation of 14 or more years ago had been educated and not neglected/oppressed the AIDS rate might have not been so high.

I havent seen my family for four years either; There is a different sort of culture here in OZ; The schools for one; People rant and rave that SA schools are crumbling, but why is it crumbling? If the people of SA rally together all can be fixed; There is a complete lack of discipline in Sydney schools. I am a teacher, and you cant say otherwise.

There is probably more politics here than SA; The aborigines; Public v Private education; Unionism; All this is due to the excess amount of migrants....More Anglo Aussies placing their kids in private schools, or so it may seem, hence more funding, which is not the case; more migrants attending public schools; The forcing of individual agreements by the Howard government, all to stem migrants.

The citizenship test; introduced recently due to many 'Aussies' with a middle eastern background, or prospective ones that show hatred toward the country, as seen in the CRONULLA RIOTS. Tell me, anyone on this forum, who tell me that SA is crumbling, and the ANC are corrupt; after 14 years has there ever been a racial uprising?

It does indeed paint a true picture of the Aussies here. Being of an Italian background in SA, my full surname ' Mimecktoni", can be considered by many Anglo Aussies here to be a 'WOG'--- of Mediterranean ethnicity...

I know, many people rave on about the countries services, take for example waiting for Gp services; Back in Cape town. I used to wait 15mins max....here about 2 hrs...and they dont pay for medecines here or Dental Braces!

cheers.

[jorrie]

Wow

I thought I was reading a horror story, but no it is true what you said.

only if it was, you must be the most positive but uninformed person that I have had the displeasure, of hearing about.

your comments are a joke and false and based on your personel feelings.

racial tension, we i can tell you that just last week while sitting an traffic light, trying not to look "hijackable" a young black man in front of me , on the back of a ute9bakkie), slide his finger across his throught indicating that he would like to kill me, at the next traffic light I asked , why would you like to kill me and his words. Because you are white. I have never seen this man before, he doesnt know me doesnt know that I helped organise thousands of Kg of food and water during the 1991 mozambique floods.

so if youreally want to tell people about RSA at least tell the truth and not some personel viewpoint, so as they can decide on facts and not on fiction.

ps what is happening in campusses across RSA right now. Black students are forcing white students off campus. The chance of that happening for more than 5 hours in Ozz - never.

RSA i will always love but hate for what it has become and people should realise that and think about their and their childrens future.

Jorrie

organised

hi Unsure GC,

I know how you feel...some parts of OZ aren't so great...I have been here for 4 years, and many people in SA, as well as the media say that the crime or just life and services are appalling.

I think its a media circus, where many try to discredit SA< and its current government, not that i am supporting the current government in any way. This hype about 2010 is one thing many people say SA is going to crumble; I say that it is an opportunity to grow.

About basic services in SA, if the Government that handed over 14 years ago provided better services for the masses, there wouldnt be such a problem now; with the majority of 14 years ago being settled into homelands and other townships; and the opposition being framed for acts of terrorism is one thing that prevents the current ogvernemtn from providing the best service. If the previous generation of 14 or more years ago had been educated and not neglected/oppressed the AIDS rate might have not been so high.

I havent seen my family for four years either; There is a different sort of culture here in OZ; The schools for one; People rant and rave that SA schools are crumbling, but why is it crumbling? If the people of SA rally together all can be fixed; There is a complete lack of discipline in Sydney schools. I am a teacher, and you cant say otherwise.

There is probably more politics here than SA; The aborigines; Public v Private education; Unionism; All this is due to the excess amount of migrants....More Anglo Aussies placing their kids in private schools, or so it may seem, hence more funding, which is not the case; more migrants attending public schools; The forcing of individual agreements by the Howard government, all to stem migrants.

The citizenship test; introduced recently due to many 'Aussies' with a middle eastern background, or prospective ones that show hatred toward the country, as seen in the CRONULLA RIOTS. Tell me, anyone on this forum, who tell me that SA is crumbling, and the ANC are corrupt; after 14 years has there ever been a racial uprising?

It does indeed paint a true picture of the Aussies here. Being of an Italian background in SA, my full surname ' Mimecktoni", can be considered by many Anglo Aussies here to be a 'WOG'--- of Mediterranean ethnicity...

I know, many people rave on about the countries services, take for example waiting for Gp services; Back in Cape town. I used to wait 15mins max....here about 2 hrs...and they dont pay for medecines here or Dental Braces!

cheers.

[Heymanse]

Hi there!

Well, we haven't landed yet but this subject has come up numerous times during discussions my husband and I would have. There is always the fear that one would not be able to settle in as one would hope to. You read all the stories of everyone on the forum, those that have found it easy to settle in and those (like Unsure) who finds it difficult and then I wonder, "How will I feel when I'm there?" This is a question that will, unfortunately, only be answered once we've landed.

Then, of course, there is the "stages" that you will go through, starting with the "honeymoon stage". It all seems very scary, and so it should, I suppose. At the same time, I cannot help to think how our great grandmothers and fathers felt when they climbed aboard a ship to sail into the unknown (now known as SA). They did not have the luxury of booking a flight for a quick visit to family and friends, or e-mail or Skype. They just had to bear the brunt and go on with life - and that is exactly what we will do. We will take the "stages" one by one, as they come and deal with them, one by one. It's like babysteps I suppose, you have to crawl before you can stand, before you can walk, before you can run and skip and jump. And this is the philosophy of life, no matter what you do, whether it is a new job, a new house, a new city, this is the route your life will take.

In the 16 years that we have been married, my husband and I have moved house 10 times! (excluding the move the Australia). Hopefully this prepared us for the BIG MOVE to Aus and maybe, just maybe the move will not leave too big an impact on our lives.

My husband has had several positions in his company, so even there he had to adjust to different set-ups and people. I, however, have been with my current employer for just short of 18 years! I made a move in 1998 to another Department but returned to the first Department in 2004 - not because of any other reason other than the fact that I was offered a hike in salary and position.

What our families are concerned, my father passed away in 1989 and my mother moved to the coast in 2006, so we see her, maybe twice or 3 times a year. My sister also lives in Pretoria, but we rarely speak to each other or see each other since her husband passed away in 2001. I barely speak or see my brother that lives in Rayton and my other sister and her husband lives in Secunda - so I don't get to see them that often as well. My husband's parents and his one brother lives on a farm in the Northwest Province (approx 5 hours drive) and we get to see them once a year. His sisters both live in Pta (one actually lives 4 blocks away) and we never get to see them, except if we all visit on the farm. His other brother lives in Bloemfontein, sometimes he would come to Pta and we will always hear that he was in Pta after he left already.

It isn't that we do not love our families, because we do. It has just become an issue of "everyone for themselves". In the beginning it bothered me a lot that we weren't closer to our families, but now I'm glad, because it does make the move easier and hopefully I won't miss them that much once we've settled in Aus.

What the support of parents are concerned, my mother actually phones me now to read newspaper articles to me in connection with people leaving the country. She doesn't realise it, but she is looking for reasons to assure herself that we are doing the right thing to enable her not to feel too sad. I'm very fortunate that she supports us and that I am able to speak to her with regard to the move.

It makes me feel better that she will be there to speak to when the going gets rough, which I'm sure it will.

Good luck to all of you still having to make the move and to those of you already there and especially good luck and blessing to those of you struggling to adapt - keep the faith - the sun will shine again!

[werns75]

look, we have been here for a month and a half and been going through much of the same feelings as probably most of you have gone through, whether after 6 months 1 year or 4 years, but looking back over the past year when we decided to move to Aus purely for the experience of working elsewhere and earning dollars, have now become much more of a reality when you start adding up the "cost" of being here. my two cents, if you decide to go back, make sure you don't go back with nothing - financially or experience !

Ofcourse there is family which is our priority too and we miss our family dearly (atleast skype makes it easier). Then there is the cost of getting here and having your currency being devalued x7.5 times (and the effect it has on your quality of life you were used to), and then the reality of meeting new people, finding work, and "integrating". these things sound very easy when sitting back in SA pondering whether to move or not. I guess for some people it was an easy choice. If you had a problematic childhood or boarding issues or just never had any real ties to whatever made you feel "south african" or being part of a family, moving to Aus was easy with no strings attached I guess. That "anonymous feeling" can become a scarlet letter when you get older and realise you are alone. that said, would any of us south africans ever be referred to as real Ausies if we weren't born here? hhmmmmm..... so what if your passport says you are a born again australian?!

I sometimes wish, and frankly this may sound harsh, that things in SA would actually start turning out like in Zimbabwe, or Kenya so we could say "HAH ! You see, why did no one listen?" People running amock in the streets, rioting, crumbling economy, depression, sporadic killings, heck why not just a full blown war and injustice so us in Aus could feel better about being here than there? and then we could have a major flux of people leaving on boats and planes in their thousands. then you know the ship is sinking (take the airplane in that case)

Maybe SA is not going to become another Zim. Heck, the interest rates in Oz are also being raised quicker than I can keep up with, and even the property market is booming just to be leveled out in the coming months. With not much more exporting in comparison to SA, I wonder sometimes who is opressing the Rand against other major currencies. It makes no sense, we worked just as hard, if not harder, do the community thing, have a strong tourism industry, BETTER service in the retail and commercial/office sector, yet we still prise the "western" countries for their expert first world outlook on life. Its sad but true, SA was not and is not the WORST country yet to live in (and probably why our friends and everyone else back home is still there and going ahead with their life and business and doing well). Fact, some towns and cities had more crime than other, and in all likelyhood that its the argument for some that its the start of SA's downfall....but look at NY and London and China recently, isn't it everywhere? Back in SA we pay for our security and our walls are high....in Aus we still pay for our security, the walls are just not yet high enough to complain about, but boundaries exist make no mistake. Nice parks in Oz cost money. Nice life in Oz cost money. Wherever governments choose to spend your tax dollars, you are enslaved to a system.

Getting back to my point, moving to Australia for however long you wish to remain here shoudn't be a death sentence should you ever want to go back. Every country and every situation is what you make of it. I have cousins who travelled the world and worked everywhere imagineable. But they always go back to SA and they still regard it as their home. There's a lesson in this: the world is open and a free place to move to and move back to where you came from because CHOICES make it possible. Whether you have kids or not, SA gave everyone ample opportunities and if it wasn't for that then none of us would even be here. Aus is still a growing economy, 1st world or not. Its people's attitude that make a country what it is, not the politicians or legislature to a degree. immigrants from the east are also considering Aus home. Would the real Australian please stand up ?

Are we now probably paying for the "sins of our forefathers" as a matter of speaking? I don't believe in any of that crap ! There are some very greedy opportunistic individuals trying to influence the course of South Africas future by trying to favour themselves and in the process their own pockets. The lack of policing and crime statistics are human factors that should be treated as such. That aside, hey, cape town is still the most beautiful place in the world, and pretoria and jozi has a great culture.

to move to Oz should be seen as an opportunity, and going back to SA or the States or wherever should be a private choice. The world is everyones playground and should be your backyard. This stupid passport that make you who you are or define you as an Aussie or SAfrican is ridiculous. :-) Its a private matter and nobody should be judged if they want to go back. We (normal human beings) all feel homesick or miss family or friends at some point in our lives. Also nothing wrong about some nostalgy some of the time. Those expats who bad mouth south africa are perhaps exactly where they should be, far away from reality who's passports define who they are rather than their purpose in life the color of your passport is just a new form of discrimination isn't it?

in a nutshell "unsureGC", its your perogative to do whatever you like. Nor SA nor OZ is a bad place. We love the people here and the little we have experienced of Aus culture. Some good some bad, but the world is your oyster and your feelings realistic. Time stands still for no one, and who knows what we'll feel in the coming months or years given our time here. Not being in SA for several years and not seeing your grandchildren growing up leaves permanent scars. You miss out on life happening, and life is happening while you we are busy making other plans. good luck with Oz, we support either choice.

Maybe from here we move on to Japan? konitschiwa

[UnsureGC]

Thanks for your reply...

[Mythryl]

Here's my take on it (note just my opinion so please don't get upset)

For my wife and I moving to NZ was the logical choice as we have family here (My 2 sisters and their DH's and children). We've been here 5 years now and not a day goes by that I don't miss SA. I've used this longing as a way to find out who I truely am and to get back in touch with my roots.

I now listen to Afrikaans music (Bok van Blerk, Robbie Wessels, etc.) on my way to work. Before arriving in NZ I had never listened to a single Afrikaans album. I speak Afrikaans on a daily basis (once again something I never used to do). This all keeps me connected to SA and my heritage.

But, I've realised that I will probably never live in SA again. What helps is that my family and my wifes family in SA admit to missing us terribly but don't want us to come back. You might hear that your friends are doing "well" financially but how are they emotionally? Are they coping with being caged like animals and fearing for their lives?

Aussie to me is home even though I don't live their. That's one area - even though I am miserable in NZ - that I can be grateful to NZ. It made me miss SA so much that I found Aussie to be very SA-like. Everyone at our offices in Sydney thought I was crazy because I spotted some red sand and went and sniffed it! Why? Because there is no red sand in NZ but there is in SA!

At the end of the day you need to make a logical decision. Emotions have no place in this decision as logic, not emotions are going to save you from a highjacker.

When torn between two decisions I tend to make a pro's and cons list as this usually puts things in perspective

[Scatterling18]

Hi everyone. I am joining this thread really late, but I have found it be a very useful discussion.

It is comforting to know that there are others out there who are also struggling with settling in. I have been here nearly 3 years now - living in Sydney. There is not a day that goes by that I don't pine for my country. I know that the crime is bad. I know that I could never take my two little girls back there to live in fear. I know that I am so lucky that we are living in a country where there is no crime and where there are opportunities etc etc. But I also feel, deep in my soul, that I don't belong here. This is not my country and every day I feel that. I long for the people of Africa. I long for the spirit of Africa.

I can't fault Australia as a place to reside. But I don't feel like I am truly living here. I have tried so hard over the last 3 years. We have had a hard time of it workwise, which may have tainted my views.

Everyone said the first year is the worst. Then I was told it takes at least 2 years. Then - "don't expect to settle for at least 4 years".

In the meantime I can't bring myself to go home and visit, because I will be crying before I even get on the plane. I know that I won't want to come back, and that the wound will be ripped right open again.

I so empathise with everyone on this forum who has struggled. Leaving home is the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.

I am grateful to have found this forum, and to be amongst people who can help me to see the other side of things.

Any advice is always welcome.

L

[elizes]

Scatterling

Yes, it is hard most of the time. I do think that if you have some friends it gets easier. But you will always have that feeling of longing for your "home", especially if you live in a place that is far from similar to home. We are happy here in the Gold Coast, in a way it reminds me of Pretoria by the sea.... But there was a time a few weeks ago that I wanted to move to Perth, just to be near more Saffers. Luckily I have a sane husband that brings some sanity to my choices....

I think you should really try and make friends that are like minded, somehow it makes you feel like you fit in and belong. I must say, that I will also not go back within 2 years, as I may just wanna stay and not come back. It is far from anyone, but luckily people can come and visit, but I miss family the most.

[BasinOzson]

Satterling18 thanks for sharing your feelings. I think it is a great thing because it helps us who are not yet there. I think this imm business is a mind thing.....and emosional and it can be very hard on us girls.

Be strong!!!!

Vlam

[Shazibell]

We arrrived here in Jan and work our butts off to get jobs, car, house and all the paperwork done. We are now in our 4th month and wow the homesickness has arrived.

Just last night I was telling Michael how sad I am feeling and I am always wondering if we have done the right thing. My family all live in the UK and oh I wish I had fought harder to move there, however in saying that I do believe I only want to be there because that is where my family is.

Australia is hard, we live on the Gold Coast and it is beautiful and we have such great freedom. I for one never want to go back to SA. I miss my family and friends withall that I am and long for having a cuppa with the girls and chatting about our 2 year olds and seeing that most two year old are just the same. My hubby would love to have a beer with someone and watch abit of rugby. It is really hard starting again and mayabe if we all knew how tough it really is, no onewould make the move.

Hang in and post like these help more than you can realise because there is someone out there who is feeling just like me.

[LeeInOz]

In the meantime I can't bring myself to go home and visit, because I will be crying before I even get on the plane. I know that I won't want to come back, and that the wound will be ripped right open again.

I so empathise with everyone on this forum who has struggled. Leaving home is the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.

Any advice is always welcome.

L

We have a friend who wanted to go back. Said there was a job and real close friends and a cheaper lifestyle.

it was so funny when they returned after a month, after living in Australia for 3 years.

The life they had was gone, the friends had changed and they could not wait to get back here.

Parhaps a look see will help you get over the longing. We have ben here 3 1/2 years and there is no desire to go back for a look see or any other reason. I will need to return to sort out some stuff some time in the future, and I am no looking forward to it.

The thing is to immerse your self in your life here, get involved in things like sports, or clubs. Staying at home alone can be dangerous as well for your sense of self worth

[Survival]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum and been living in Australia for 3.5 years now.

I was just wondering if there is anyone else out there considering moving back to SA? If so please tell me your story... I have been living overseas for 8 years in total now and I still miss my family and SA terribly. I have been home every year since leaving to travel so I am fully aware of everything changing and happening there.

Please don't reply to this message if you are going to try and convince me that SA is a terrible place, I just really want to hear from other people that may be feeling the same way as me and how they are dealing with it.

Look forward to hearing from you

We almost 2yrs in Aus and will surely get my citizenship and passport first.

I'm accepting the Rainbow nation in RSA and if crime and AA stopped I will surely go back. RSA is a great country and will always be my home!

Until then I will be an Aussie where my family can be safe

[candivw]

I know where u must be coming from, i know before i even leave that i am going to miss home so much, especially my family, friends and most of all animals... i have never been without my horse, dog and cats and i am going over to a handful of friends and no family... some days i wonder what i am thinking....

We almost 2yrs in Aus and will surely get my citizenship and passport first.

I'm accepting the Rainbow nation in RSA and if crime and AA stopped I will surely go back. RSA is a great country and will always be my home!

Until then I will be an Aussie where my family can be safe

[mash]

On Friday night for the first time, the thought crossed my mind to do a little research into leaving South Africa. My husband and I both have European passports and so we can always get out "if things get really bad". Thing is, that I sometimes wonder if I had a peek into the future 10 years ago, I wouldn't be saying - geez girl, pack your bags!

Anyway. So in my search on Friday night, I was particularly looking for some honesty. Not the brave faces and the justifications for leaving, the real honest feelings that people are having about being foreigners in a new country.

I found the first real honesty in this posting!

I would like to say this to UnsureGC:

I did the same thing you did, but I left home at 18 for a little bit of an overseas experience. I loved London so much that I swore I would never leave, mainly because it's an awesome place when you are that age. I couldn't see any reason to go back to SA! Then one morning 5 years down the line I woke up and I knew it was time. Like a switch had gone off in my head. A few months later I was on my flight home.

It was pretty tough, I was used to having lots of spare pounds and therefore freedom, and in SA I was spending all my salary just to survive. And 6 weeks after I arrived home, a guy who was coming to fetch me to go on a date was hijacked in my driveway in front of my eyes (luckily the hijackers hadn't seen me walk out of the front door). So I was a bit shell shocked! But I can tell you this, my 10 years at home have been 10 of the best years of my life. It's been an incredible journey. For all the crime and negativity, there is just as much amazing stuff going on. There is a cultural diversity and an understanding amongst people, your average person just wants to improve their lives and those of their children. We've adapted in amazing ways as a nation! And every morning as I drive to work and I see the blue collar workers, I silently salute them for not turning to crime and for choosing rather to live off ridiculously low salaries - those people have courage and good souls.

It's through adversity that our light shines, that we are challenged to be the best that we can be. My biggest fear about leaving it all for somewhere like Australia, is about living in numbness and sterility.

Having said all that, it's the little things that are starting to get to me, and also that it is time to think of the future for my (as yet unborn) children. And so we are right at step 1.1.1.1 - starting to think about maybe leaving! However I will say this. I wouldn't change the last 10 years of my life for anything. UnsureGC - if your soul is yearning to come home, then do it. There is no right and wrong, only what we experience along the way. If you come home for 5 years and then decide to go back - your life will probably be richer for the experience. Make your decision out of love, not out of fear.

And as a matter of interest murder rates have declined steadily in South Africa since 1994, when there were 69.5 murders per 100,000 compared to 40.5 in 2006. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...y_homicide_rate. Whether these figures reflect the truth is a different story, and it's true we still have some of the highest murder rates in the world.

But there you have it. I hope you find happiness where ever you end up, and I wish you luck along the way.

Oh and one more thing - I think that one of the reasons that you might be getting such extreme reactions from people, is that your open and honest post has confronted them with their own vulnerability, and in order to squash their own pain, they lash out at you. Deep down they might be feeling exactly the same thing.

Edited May 25, 2008 by mash

[Guest natalie3]

Shazibwll..chin up...just think of all the crapola on this side...that should help u recover real quick!

[Leigh MC]

I just don't know, what to say about this.

I mean I can totally understand homesickness - I lived in London for 2 years and couldn't bear it - had to come home. But that was also because the eternal gray sky and the city itself got to me. So I can understand missing your family, friends, familiar places and faces.

But to come back to THIS now? Ethnic cleansing, corruption, crime, fear, uncertainty, anger, stress, inflation though the roof, interest rates through the roof...

Did I mention fear?

Still - it's your decision, and I wish you luck with it. Just know that I (and many others) would give anything to be in your shoes right now.

Leigh

[Mommy]

UnsureGC

You talk, we'll listen, give some replies and if it helps you, then you talk some more.

Hearing other people, and sharing theirs, helps if only in the heart.

Riding the see-saw is waists our time, we know it but still we ride it.

My hubby moved us to the Karoo in 2004, we stayed there for a year,

now understand I am a TOTAL gardening freak....and well gardening doesn't work there

quite like us Highveld TVL'rs are used to.

But it has a ... something that climbs in under your skin and makes you it's own!!!!

And the people are few but they are true and honest - they are PEOPLE to die for!!!

Ps the kids and I stayed alone for most of the year - no burgular bars, no lock on front door on a farm

far from all except your 20km+ away neighbors...lovely

But after a year, hubby unhappy that the work kept him from us. So we moved

back to Limpawpaw...to a town North-east of Pietersburg - (Polokwane incase you don't recognise the name....hee, hee)

Anyway this unnamed town is lush and green with wonderful temperatures.

But the people are rude and think the sun sets when the sit, they ignore outsiders and the best of all

is that their moral standards in general is so scary (filthy scary) that I don't want to mix with them...

And it is not the outcasts and poor but the rich and infuentual. REALLY scary stuff.

Now I must admit the year I was in the Karoo, something changed in me.

I've been back in the Tvl for 2,6 years now, where I lived all my life(30+) before my one little year in the Karoo.

But I am DEPRESSED, I DON'T want to be here.

The people are nasty and so very shallow, so shallow you couldn't get a trickle of water flowing.

If I look at photos of our farm I cry many times.

I go back and visit friends once a year......and miss the place alot

then I don't want to be in Tvl even more.

Sounds alot like I won't be able to make the move to Oz....

And my Hubby wanted to move 10 years ago already.

But I was all "volk en vaderland"

BUT in my going back once a year, just to the Karoo, I have also seen the change the goverment has emposed on even the smallest farout places.

And I see a pawpaw plan growing that they want to let hit the fan.......

I smell a foul smelling rat.

I woke up one Thursday morning in April without any prior thought of immigrating.

And now I am planning LSD's, and getting info, budgetting, getting the kids to read more english....

It doesn't sound like you have children.

And having the kids and grand-parents missing so much of all your lives is terrible.

But keep in mind - you are building forth on a new family as well.

To build, well, we must keep in mind the pilars behind us - they give us direction, strength, thankfulness,

everything we are but, also they would want us to go forth.

Go forth well!!!!!

And the days the tears want to flow freely - hell let them - but don't stay there, get something that cheers

you and do not let the tears steal more time and happiness then needed.

God Bless

Blink kant bo.

[Smartie]

Hi,

This honesty is great as we need to hear it all.

But I agree with Mommy as said earlier - once you have kids it all changes.

All the very best to you and your final decision.

love

Smartie

[GerhardinOz]

I have only ever known one family that moved back to SA from when I lived in NZ. I still don’t really know why they went back, but 2 years later and they are planning their move to Australia. The fact is all the reasons you left in the first place are still there and it got worse. One just seem to forget about those reasons when you’re not confronted by them daily.

[Recoil]

mash - nice use of wikipedia. of course you only show stats for one area. if you look at the wikipedia page on number of firearm homicides [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate] you'll see south africa sitting at about 78 (waaaay ahead of anyone else), columbia next at 50 australia at 2.3 etc etc.

another wikipedia entry worth looking at is the Quality of life index [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-life_index] here SA comes in at 92 of 111 countries, for comparison purposes Iran comes in at 88. this means you would have a better quality of life in Iran than in SA interesting. Australia sits at number 6.

The quality of life index is based upon 9 areas of measurement namely: Health, Family life, Community life, Material well being, Political stability and security, Climate and geography, Job security, Political freedom and Gender equality.

My point being that using one set of figures to "justify" any argument is pointless. use as many resources as you can get your hands on and make a proper educated, and personal, choice on our next steps.

[zorba]

Hi,

This honesty is great as we need to hear it all.

But I agree with Mommy as said earlier - once you have kids it all changes.

All the very best to you and your final decision.

love

Smartie

Hey Smartie,

Glad to see you are still around! Thought you'd left the forum...

zorba

[UnsureGC]

Hi All...

WOW - I haven't logged into the forum for sometime now and after coming on today and seeing all the wonderful posts you have left I feel all warm inside!

I am feeling much better about things these days, I have done a lot of soul searching and trying my best to be happy with today and not look to the future so much. We have no plans to stay or go... right not we are just living for today and we will take each day at a time. It has helped a lot to have the support of my husband to go home if I really want to give it a go... and if its not for us we can come back. I am glad we have opened this door for us and our future family and still hope that I can live in my beloved SA again one day!

Scatterling - thank you for your heartfelt message, I can truely relate and I am sure that you will find peace one day. Thank you for sharing your feelings!

Shazibell - Welcome to the GC, you are still very fresh so I can understand how you are feeling. My husband and I don't have any kids but we love socialising and of course love rugby! We live in Robina so if you would like to meet up and have a drink just send me a PM.

Survival - I am with you! Have not made up my mind on where I want to be yet but until then I am making the best of right now. Its taken a lot to shift my thoughts and emotions but I am getting there... I will always long for SA (I never left cos I wanted to, I was not trying to get away from anything... I loved life when I lived there). Good Luck with whatever you decide

Mash - thanks for your thoughts, I have taken it all on board and I am sure I will know what to do when the time is right. Good luck with your decision... I know that its not an easy one! Keep in touch if you need to chat to someone...

LMC - Thank you for your posting too 'Just know that I (and many others) would give anything to be in your shoes right now.' I am aware of this and I don't say things lightly - to want to come home... its hard to explain but its just a feeling you have in the pitt of your stomach, you just feel like you don't belong. Immigration isn't for everyone and from what you have said it possibly is the right thing for you... good luck with whatever you plan to do!

Mommy - your honestly was very refreshing, thank you for your thoughts. Good luck with your future plans, I hope everything works out for you and that you feel like you belong one day

P.S. Its raining and freezing on the coast today... have a good weekend all!

[sunshine123]

Hi Everyone,

My 2c's worth.

We lived in NZ for a year and came back to SA.

Biggest reasons were the weather in NZ, and then missing family (I had a 6 week old baby with allergies and another daughter (3)) and it was very difficult for me to be a full time stay at home mom with no support..

We went to NZ during 2006 and have been back since beginning 2007.

Australia was always our first choice, but at the time we were desperate to go and NZ was the only option at that stage..

So we have been back and have enjoyed being back - the weather, the family support with the kids, but even in the year that we were gone - things did change. We don't have the family support we thought we would - not to the extent we had before we left - that's just the way life changes.

So we are now plannning to start our application to Aus - we wanted to wait until our youngest is a bit older and can go to school so that I can work part time.

Every country has its ups and downs, and you have to live with it wherever you are, we just still feel that SA is going to get more and more difficult to live in - in some aspects. There are some things that will make me want to stay, but I think this time around our decision will be a lot less emotional and more rational - and even with it being rational - we still feel we have to do it.

So, if you want to come back to SA - then you must - it's all your choice at the end of the day - and you are the only one that can make 'you' happy - it's very important to have the right mindset - so if coming back is going to help you with that - then you must feel comfortable with the decision.

Just know from someone who's been and back again and wants to go again-life here is great because it's so familiar - but that's the scary part - we have become so 'familiar' with the fear and the way of life in terms of security and no freedom - and that's not a great life!!

I really am going to miss a lot of things in SA when we leave - but this time round I am hopefully going to see things through different eyes - it's expensive to live everywhere in the world these days, not just in SA, and petrol's going up everywhere too, but all these things on top of all the other problems in this country makes it difficult to stay...

[Kerry-Lea]

Hi Unsure

I am still in SA but can totally relate. The thought of leaving my mom who i see every day kills me and I cry now every time i think about it.

I think the important thing is to accept that you WILL feel this way and its OK to feel this way. It almost sounds like you feel guilty about it?

Expecting yourself to cut off and "forget" what you have left behind is inhuman! I think your first step is to acknowledge your feelings and accept that its OK to feel that way. You are not "betraying" your new life by longing for the old one.

Hubby (35) and I (33) have a really good life here in SA. we own property, both have fantastic jobs and our kids go to wonderful schools (gov primary and private high). We live in a security village overlooking the sea and our kids can ride thier bikes until long after dark without fear.

So why move, leave all of this behind? Exactly what the others have said. We are doing it for the kids. He just says that having the option to leave (he has a UK passport, but moving there wouldnt be "doing it for the kids" weather-wise) and staying here, and then having something happen to one of us, would kill him. We know crime is everywhere, but its much worse here and your chances of being a victim are just so much higher.

So we are going to Aus - same weather, same language, similar culture. If it means sacrificing what we have here for the knowledge that there is a far better chance of growing old with our kids there, this is soemthing we are prepared to do. We dont WANT to go, we have just reached that stage where we feel we have been left with no choice. Perhaps the recent xenophobia is true of us as well - we are also being forced to leave a country we love?

I sympathise with what you are saying, but i'm also glad you are saying it because so many people think its going to be an easy move to make.

Lastly - I saw a post this morning about a book that was written by an ex-pat called Aussie, Actaully - www.aussieactaully.com - maybe pick yourself up a copy - i'm sure it will help to know that you are not alone.

[Smartie]

Hey Smartie,

Glad to see you are still around! Thought you'd left the forum...

zorba

Hi,

Yes still here and still WAITING like all the others...

How you going??

love

Smartie