New Citizenship Rules

[Peterthe1]

Probably not as he more than likely would have been deemed un australian. He wasn't deported though, his visa was cancelled so he couldn't come back into the country.

Here is an extract from Wikipedia:

Alessio Emmanuel "Alex" Vella (born 1954),[1]or The Maltese Falcon,[2] is a Maltese businessman, former boxer, stand over man and National President of the Rebels Motorcycle Club in Australia. Despite having lived in Australia since the 1960s, he is not a citizen of the country.[3] This caused visa problems when he tried to return to Australia after having gone to Japan with his son Adam (also a boxer) for a boxing match in 2007.[4]The New South Wales Police Force tried to bar Vella from re-entering Australia then, but he was eventually allowed to return.[5] In 2014 Vella visited Malta, and his residency visa was cancelled by the Minister for Immigration and Border Protection. Vella tried to appeal in the High Court in October 2015, but was not permitted to.

Being a criminal the course taken was more than likely correct but not being allowed your day in court is rather dubious. No more innocent until proven guilty.

[Mara]

I have been following this thread, and now I am going to probably be slaughtered for my comment. 

 

It is about time that the government got tougher on the undesirable elements in Australia. As far as I am concerned, the laws have not been tough enough. Just look at how often genuine criminals get bail, and then just go out and kill, rape or steal again... as for the young African element that is causing distress in Melbourne, I would be happy to see the whole lot of them deported. They do not appreciate what they have here, they make no effort to do anything except cause chaos and most of the time, due to their young age, they just get a rap across the knuckles, let go, and off they are, to their next home invasion, store theft, etc. I personally think, that a 3rd strike and they get deported, if they are under age, lock them up till they are 18 and then deport them. Yes, I know, that sounds callous, but if that started happening, it may give the remaining thugs a bit to think about!

 

I am also amazed at the "entitlement" that prisoners think they are owed.. if instead of a holiday house, the prisons were more hard labour, then the criminal element may just think twice about going back there!

 

If you aim is to live on the wrong side of Australian law, then quite frankly you need to accept the consequences of that decision.

 

I have no problem, I am a good citizen, who abides by the law (okay, I have been caught for speeding), who worked full time and paid my taxes, so I am not at all concerned for our family. I am definitely all for law and order! Is that not one of the reasons why most of us left RSA?

 

Edited May 15, 2017 by Mara

[Mel-B]

I agree Mara.

 

 

[RedPanda]

I think the problem here is just that they are scared a law passed in order to address the criminal element today, could be used to support a controlling government regime in the future, and then it's too late to repeal the law. The objection is that there is no recourse for the "targeted" person. A future scenario being that saying something that questions the government can be considered un-Australian and get someone deported.

[Jobizzle]

Hi all

 

Sorry to change the direction of the thread here, but I've got an interesting citizenship question. We are currently on a 457 visa, landed Jan 2016. We got unexpectedly pregnant and our daughter was born here in Australia in April 2017. Now my understanding from previous discussions on the forum, is that the baby adopts whatever the parents status is, so in this case she will just be a dependant on my 457 visa which is fine. But provided nothing changes, and we are able to apply for PR in Jan on a 186 transition visa, she then becomes a PR. The question is, is she eligible for citizenship without needing the 4 year 'tenure', because she was born here in Australia? Or does she need to continue to adopt whatever my status is?

[Mara]

@Jobizzle my opinion is that she falls under whatever the visa situation was when she was born, being born in Australia does not give her any advantage in this situation. If I am wrong, I am sure somebody will set me right!

[HadEnoughofJuju]

She will just continue to adopt what ever your status is. Being born on a 457 doesn't mean she will automatically get citizenship. Children under 16 years of age are included in one of the two parents application for PR and then again in the citizenship application.

Edited May 16, 2017 by HadEnoughofJuju

[Peterthe1]

On 5/16/2017 at 9:47 PM, RedPanda said:

I think the problem here is just that they are scared a law passed in order to address the criminal element today, could be used to support a controlling government regime in the future, and then it's too late to repeal the law. The objection is that there is no recourse for the "targeted" person. A future scenario being that saying something that questions the government can be considered un-Australian and get someone deported.

Eventually somebody has seen what the article is about and not assumed the laws are there to make criminals life easier but to make the governments process of deeming someone criminal easier, whether they are guilty or not.

People sticking their head in the sand and saying "I'm not a criminal so this won't affect me" is wrong because, under these laws,  your innocent actions today could be deemed criminal tomorrow and you wouldn't be able to defend yourself in court. This may sound extreme but in todays political climate not to far fetched.

[Mara]

Well then, as I am one of those sticking my head in the sand, I will have to mind what I do in years to come! I am not going to lose sleepless nights about it though!

[Riekie]

I'm with Mara on this one.  I can't imagine anything which would not constitute a criminal offense today, becoming a criminal offense in the future, unless what you're doing at the moment is of a devious, dishonest, unscrupulous nature and borderline illegal...

 

Shortly after we arrived, I got fined for parking on a nature strip, unaware that it was a traffic infringement in Australia (a common way of parking in South Africa). That's the full extend of my criminal activities.  I think I'll be fine    

 

[Meg]

What is the likelihood of the new 4 year rule changing? (apologies if already covered).

 

Asking because I would have been eligible for citizenship on 01/06/17, but now have to wait another year which could mean I'll miss out on the Canada Working Holiday Visa ... approaching 30 y/o.

[TeeTMI]

On 09/06/2017 at 3:22 PM, Meg said:

What is the likelihood of the new 4 year rule changing? (apologies if already covered).

 

Asking because I would have been eligible for citizenship on 01/06/17, but now have to wait another year which could mean I'll miss out on the Canada Working Holiday Visa ... approaching 30 y/o.

 

I'm afraid that is crystal ball territory and the outcome, and when it will be implemented/backdated to, will be the result of a variety of factors.   

[TakeItOnTheChin]

From what I understand, the matter has now been referred to a Senate Committee who will receive submissions until 21 July from the public and organisations giving opinions/reasons to reject or support the changes. Recommendations and findings get passed to the lower house and Senate in early September. They will then vote on the bill in its entirety or recommended amendments thereto.

33 minutes ago, TeeTMI said:

 

I'm afraid that is crystal ball territory and the outcome, and when it will be implemented/backdated to, will be the result of a variety of factors.   

 

[TeeTMI]

The expected process can twist and turn along its path.

 

Here is a link to the Bill for anyone who is interested in following its progress.

http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;page=0;query=BillId%3Ar5914 Recstruct%3Abillhome 

 

and for comparison you might look at the path of the Bill that was to amend the Family Visa process on 1st July 2017 - but is still ongoing and now not expected to impact until later in the year or next year

http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;page=0;query=family violence SearchCategory_Phrase%3A"bills and legislation";rec=0;resCount=Default

 

 

[SandraDee]

Does anyone understand the 4 year residency requirement to citizenship? I need to understand how leaving the country on holiday/ gap years etc affect the 4 years requirement.

I read you cannot leave the country for more than 12 months in the 4 year period. Does that mean each holiday of 3 weeks say gets added together over the 4 years and as long as that figure does not exceed 12 months then you are okay?

Are you allowed to travel the year preceding your application? I know in the past you couldn't

Does the time out the country get added to the 4 years - ie clock stops each time you leave on holiday- or is it not counted as long as it is below the 12 month time frame?

 

These changes have affected our university fees for the next few years so we need to make sure that we do not add more time to the 4 years.

 

thanks xx

[Pell]

@SandraDee, what year are you kids at university? Are you on PR? Do you qualify for a Commonwealth supported place?

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Pell

[SandraDee]

Hi Pell, we only arrived end of 2015 so have only been here 18 months. My children are currently year 11 and 12. My son is currently applying for uni and no we wont get a

csp place - so our fees are domestic but not subsidised. - instead of aud 11 000 per year it will be aud27 000 per year!!!  My son would like to take a gap year but I dont want it to impact our citizenship especially as my daughter, one year behind him , wants to do a double degree!!

[Pell]

@SandraDee, sheesh that is tough. Is the $27K the international rate or the "fee-paying" rate? I'm just wondering, because the difference between our uni's CSP place is $11k vs $42K (for international sutdents). So is there and in-between rate for PR holders, or will they have to fork our international rates, do you know? 

 

[SandraDee]

Yes there is an in-between rate. We are permanent residents so it is the full domestic fee paying rate. We do not pay the international rate- we pay the domestic rate but dont get the government subsidy.  If you look at the university fees - choose domestic student - and then try and find the rate without the csp subsidy- it is normally under -' more information' - I think it quotes the full year as aud27000 or $383 per module.  We had 3 university departments go through it with us so very confident we dont pay international fees.

Just a side note- It still hasn't been passed by parliament - the universities have not had confirmation yet that it will go ahead for next year. They are expecting it to though - they are only expecting to hear in November. If it doesnt get passed in time then once enrolled the fees will be at csp for the entire duration of the course- ie if you are already enrolled then you are not affected by the changes.  Holding thumbs that they don't get it passed in time for next year!  We can apply for HELP though, so I suppose we can pay it off for our children - $90 000 is a big debt to start life with!

[RedPanda]

Just double check it please, but the way I understand is that you have four years, of those 4 a total of less than 12 months can be spent outside Australia, and in the final year of the 4 years a total of less than 3 months can be spent outside Australia. Total, as in they don't care how yo break it up, they add it all within the 4 years and then also within the final year, and they check that it's <12months, <3months

But like I said, please double check this.

[Pell]

@SandraDee, thanks for explaining this. We are already enrolled, but thinking of changing courses, which will then void the CSP. So best to stick with this choice.... Good luck to your kids - hope they still catch the CSP! What uni are they going to?

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Pell

[footloosecx]

I agree with Red Panda, that's how I also understand it. Apparently there is a number (Perth?) you can phone and find out the exact date you are eligible for citizenship, as long as you stay within the rules. My daughter used this number a few years back and is trying to find it. If anyone else on the forum knows this number please let us have it. Cheers

[RedPanda]

I had a quick look on the Border website, and at the bottom of the Citizenship Wizard it gave this information:
You can call the Citizenship Information Line to discuss your personal circumstances or to get forms and further information. In Australia, telephone 131 880 between 8:30 am and 4:30 pm Monday to Friday.


Another interesting thing I read, which I've wondered about before, is this:

When did you become a permanent resident?
Please enter the date when you became a permanent resident. This will be the date you were granted a visa which gave you permanent residence in Australia. If you were granted permanent residence while overseas, enter the date that you arrived in Australia on that visa. If you were granted permanent residence while in Australia, enter the date that visa was granted.

I interpret that as meaning, if you were granted a PR visa and you made an activation trip, and then came over later 'with all your stuff', then your permanent residency date is the date of activation trip entry. @TeeTMI or @SD_MOA do either of you happen to know if this is correct? Because the options on the landing cards sure are extremely confusing for an activation trip.

Even though it's still some way away for us, I've been wondering about this, because it makes almost a year's difference in our case.

[vitchie]

2 hours ago, RedPanda said:

I had a quick look on the Border website, and at the bottom of the Citizenship Wizard it gave this information:
You can call the Citizenship Information Line to discuss your personal circumstances or to get forms and further information. In Australia, telephone 131 880 between 8:30 am and 4:30 pm Monday to Friday.


Another interesting thing I read, which I've wondered about before, is this:

When did you become a permanent resident?
Please enter the date when you became a permanent resident. This will be the date you were granted a visa which gave you permanent residence in Australia. If you were granted permanent residence while overseas, enter the date that you arrived in Australia on that visa. If you were granted permanent residence while in Australia, enter the date that visa was granted.

I interpret that as meaning, if you were granted a PR visa and you made an activation trip, and then came over later 'with all your stuff', then your permanent residency date is the date of activation trip entry. @TeeTMI or @SD_MOA do either of you happen to know if this is correct? Because the options on the landing cards sure are extremely confusing for an activation trip.

Even though it's still some way away for us, I've been wondering about this, because it makes almost a year's difference in our case.

 

Yeah I would like to know the same as we arrived and activated in Nov 2016, but then went back to South Africa for more than 90 days.

[Pell]

@RedPanda , that citizenship wizards doesn't seem to work for me.... Do you perhaps have a link, maybe I'm not accessing the correct one? Thanks!

I know that they took it down from the website after the changes were announced in April, but I didn't know they'd put it back up.