Brad76 Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 1 hour ago, RedPanda said: ...process of reaction. Whatever it is, apart from submissions to the website they made available, there is little one can do, so rather just accept it and move on with your new strategy. That's a question I also have.....from 20 April you can no longer be assessed under the old rules, the new rules apply from 20 April but will they be subject to change following the consultation process? I'm not sure how new applications could proceed at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottg Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 Some insight why the 457 had to be changed. Unfortunately, it will have a knock-on effect on many other things but.... "Between 2008 and 2016, in net terms, the Australian labour market expanded by 474,000 full-time jobs. But only 74,000 of them went to people born in Australia. That’s fewer than one in six" http://insidestory.org.au/yes-there-is-such-a-thing-as-too-much-immigration Inside Story is published by Swinburne University of Technology 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queque Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 5 hours ago, ottg said: Some insight why the 457 had to be changed. Unfortunately, it will have a knock-on effect on many other things but.... "Between 2008 and 2016, in net terms, the Australian labour market expanded by 474,000 full-time jobs. But only 74,000 of them went to people born in Australia. That’s fewer than one in six" http://insidestory.org.au/yes-there-is-such-a-thing-as-too-much-immigration Inside Story is published by Swinburne University of Technology Damn that is a sad state of affairs. Would be interesting to see which industries and jobs are filled by 457's in relation to the overall market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPanda Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 13 hours ago, ottg said: Some insight why the 457 had to be changed. Unfortunately, it will have a knock-on effect on many other things but.... "Between 2008 and 2016, in net terms, the Australian labour market expanded by 474,000 full-time jobs. But only 74,000 of them went to people born in Australia. That’s fewer than one in six" http://insidestory.org.au/yes-there-is-such-a-thing-as-too-much-immigration Inside Story is published by Swinburne University of Technology This is actually true. I see it on the job ad boards all the time, the migrants are giving the Australian employers their all-time dream: Instant +3 years experience workers, looking for entry level pay. Nobody needs to take a graduate, because they can hold out a little for an entry level experienced worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyebrow Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 I have a question... Who is to say that in 4 years' time (after implementing the new 4y on PR before citizenship allowed), they dont add another 4 years? And keep moving the goal posts? I guess that can just happen. It's the uncertainty, more than anything, that I find personally so stressful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeItOnTheChin Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 15 minutes ago, Eyebrow said: I have a question... Who is to say that in 4 years' time (after implementing the new 4y on PR before citizenship allowed), they dont add another 4 years? And keep moving the goal posts? I guess that can just happen. It's the uncertainty, more than anything, that I find personally so stressful. I feel your anxiety, it is probably the same for many of us that are hoping for citizenship one day. I was so upset by the announcement as it added another 2 years to my wait. I suppose it is out of our control. I do sometimes feel that some good common sense will prevail, but who knows, it may just be political games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJDLmoving Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 So question time... We have 189 PR visa Granted. We are only planning on moving in 2018. Questions: Can they tell us at some point that your visas have changed and you no longer have PR or the like? What is the disadvantage of not getting citizenship if you have a PR Visa? OR why does one want to get citizenship? Are you more secure in the county with citizenship? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 Hi @JJDLmoving I am hoping the answer to your first question is a definite NO. Also concerned with our 190. The reasons why we are keen to work towards getting citizenship after 4 years are: 1. Subsidised university fees plus access to a non interest bearing student loan - my son will have been in Australia for 4 years by the time he finishes school. 2. In my husband's occupation it would be useful for him to have security clearance which you can only obtain as a citizen. 3. It will feel safer. 4. It will mean that we have fully committed to being Australians. Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPanda Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 And passports! If you hold Aussie citizenship without RSA citizenship you only need to keep one passport current. You don't need to pay for a Resident Return Visa every 2 years to be able to leave Australia (for anywhere). And if you also renounce your RSA citizenship, then if you are visiting RSA and things go wrong, you are seen as an Australian, and you can as the Australian authorities in South Africa to help you. Plus all the things @Husky said btw....why do you have a meerkat if your name is "Husky"? (Just my idle curiosity...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderer Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 1 hour ago, RedPanda said: btw....why do you have a meerkat if your name is "Husky"? (Just my idle curiosity...) I think huskies can shape shift 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 Haha @RedPanda and @wonderer Husky is my nickname from high school because of my voice. Nothing to do with a Husky dog. Although I do like huskies. The meerkat is the African animal assigned to me by friends one boozy Saturday evening, because of my natural curiosity .... #youasked 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadEnoughofJuju Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 @JJDLmoving, once your visa has been granted, you have the right to work and say on Aus. I guess they could take it away from you but they would have to have a very good reason like finding out you lied in your application or something similar. PR itself doesn't expire but the visa itself does after 4 years and can't be renewed. You either have to apply for a resident return visa or citizenship. Of course you don't have to but that will just mean you won't be able to travel out side of Aus until you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonny Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 (edited) And this disaster proves how ruthless Australia can be. They simply DO NOT CARE about applicants, or how much of their time or money is wasted. Turnbull is simply trying to win popularity from the masses with this move. He has been slipping in the polls and he is trying to grovel with the masses. It should all have heen properly phased in. The people truly affected by this have my deepest sympathy. By the way, we came over in December 2006, I eventually got citizenship in 2011 and we did not have to do IELTS at all. Edited April 24, 2017 by Bonny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonny Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 12 hours ago, RedPanda said: You don't need to pay for a Resident Return Visa every 2 years to be able to leave Australia (for anywhere). And if you also renounce your RSA citizenship, then if you are visiting RSA and things go wrong, you are seen as an Australian, and you can as the Australian authorities in South Africa to help you. My husband's RRV is 5 years. It was just granted without asking for a long one. It don't think it cost much, and came through online within 24 hours. By the way I personally think it's a bit of an urban legend that Australia would refuse to help dual citizens overseas. Wondering if there is any proof of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurferMan Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 Wow, So much change and resultant emotion. I am standing here looking at these new regulations and just whistle in wonder/disbelief, after all the dramas we went through to go from 457-->189-->citizen. Fighting ACS, fighting IETLS, fighting Saffers who were screwing us over, fighting to be paid etc. Now the hurdles are truly daunting, but still doable. To those who are fighting, keep the faith! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RYLC Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bonny said: By the way I personally think it's a bit of an urban legend that Australia would refuse to help dual citizens overseas. Wondering if there is any proof of that. I think if you are actually IN the country of your other citizenship then it would be difficult for Australia to intervene. Both citizenships hold equal weight and the person has CHOSEN this on purpose. It would be highly unlikely for Australia to intervene in a matter in RSA. Besides you would have entered on your RSA passport, cementing the fact that you are choosing to be "South African" for the period. It's probably one of the reasons people have to use their Saffa passport for entry and exit. So not an urban legend. It's determined by which country you are in when you need consular assistance. Edited April 25, 2017 by RYLC 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RYLC Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 On 23 April 2017 at 8:01 PM, ottg said: Some insight why the 457 had to be changed. Unfortunately, it will have a knock-on effect on many other things but.... "Between 2008 and 2016, in net terms, the Australian labour market expanded by 474,000 full-time jobs. But only 74,000 of them went to people born in Australia. That’s fewer than one in six" http://insidestory.org.au/yes-there-is-such-a-thing-as-too-much-immigration Inside Story is published by Swinburne University of Technology @Bonny this article highlights the REAL reason for the changes to 457. Yes it's political but I think any government who doesn't tackle the issue of their citizens being able to get work in their OWN country is looking for trouble. There is never a good time to make changes. There will always be people who didn't make it over the line AND history has taught them that a phased approach just brings an enormous FLOOD of applications of the occupations that they don't want to import any more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 @Bonny You say that "Australia simply does not care".... they are not in the job of caring about foreigners that wish to live in Australia... no country is... I have lived in 5 countries now, and either you fit the rules, or you don't. They rarely have compassion of any kind, anywhere in the world. I do not think it has anything to do with votes... all you have to do is look at Europe, and how they are starting to clamp down... I think it is more about greater control over who gets to live in Australia. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJDLmoving Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 7 hours ago, HadEnoughofJuju said: PR itself doesn't expire but the visa itself does after 4 years and can't be renewed. You either have to apply for a resident return visa or citizenship. Of course you don't have to but that will just mean you won't be able to travel out side of Aus until you have. So if we only moved to Aus in the last of the 4 years. Say with 1 year left on the Visa - then we would need to apply for a RRV until we are there for enough time to qualify for citizenship. That is if we want to leave Aus to travel. Is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RYLC Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJDLmoving Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Thanks @rylc and everyone else for the input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadEnoughofJuju Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 @JJDLmoving, something like that yes. You don't have to apply for the RRV but threat would mean you would not be able to leave Aus until you have citizenship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterthe1 Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 22 hours ago, Husky said: Hi @JJDLmoving I am hoping the answer to your first question is a definite NO. Also concerned with our 190. The reasons why we are keen to work towards getting citizenship after 4 years are: 1. Subsidised university fees plus access to a non interest bearing student loan - my son will have been in Australia for 4 years by the time he finishes school. 2. In my husband's occupation it would be useful for him to have security clearance which you can only obtain as a citizen. 3. It will feel safer. 4. It will mean that we have fully committed to being Australians. Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. What security clearance does your husband need? I've got a ASIO security clearance to work with explosives and I've only got PR. Got the clearance without any problems after all the necessary checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 @Peterthe1 Still need more info on this but a lot of the government jobs we have been seeing are in the defence industry and ask for Australian security clearance. He is an electronics engineer who specialises in security systems. Of course, the government is not the only potential employer. Who would the certifying body be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CazK Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) @Husky We've had the same problem with the requirement for a security clearance when applying for jobs (my husband is also an engineer). Some aerospace and defence jobs specifically ask for citizens due to the security clearance issue. I suppose a company may make an exception, but if you are applying from outside of Aus, they might just ignore you and look at the local candidates available. Who knows. Edited April 25, 2017 by CazK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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