New Citizenship Rules

[Eyebrow]

6 minutes ago, zamunda said:

If they had already applied for their 457, then they should not be affected by the new rules. The new rules only apply to new applications. That's my understanding.

 

I dont think that is the case.

As far as I understand it is only 457 that has been decided by the 19th of April that is ok. If application was still undecided, the rules will apply retroactively, but people may withdraw their application and get their money back. If they wait for application to be decided on (and they dont fit the new criteria) they will get turned down AND lose their money.

[zamunda]

1 minute ago, Eyebrow said:

 

I dont think that is the case.

As far as I understand it is only 457 that has been decided by the 19th of April that is ok. If application was still undecided, the rules will apply retroactively, but people may withdraw their application and get their money back. If they wait for application to be decided on (and they dont fit the new criteria) they will get turned down AND lose their money.

hmm that's harsh

Sadly I also appreciate the reasons for the new rules. 

[Eyebrow]

https://www.facebook.com/DIBPAustralia/

 

What I have just recently found is the Facebook page of immigration. Who knew they had one?!

As you may imagine, thousands of people are asking questions on there now. And if you can't learn your answer from what is already written, you can ask you own question! They actually appear to be answering the questions people are posting there. It has been very insightful for me. I suggest going to their page.

[Stepchook]

46 minutes ago, Eyebrow said:

 

I dont think that is the case.

As far as I understand it is only 457 that has been decided by the 19th of April that is ok. If application was still undecided, the rules will apply retroactively, but people may withdraw their application and get their money back. If they wait for application to be decided on (and they dont fit the new criteria) they will get turned down AND lose their money.

 

 

 

This article explains it all: 

Quote

Who is affected? Current 457 visa applicants and holders, prospective applicants, businesses sponsoring skilled migrants and industry. Existing 457 visas will continue to remain in effect.

457 visa applicants that had lodged their application on or before 18 April 2017, and whose application had not yet been decided, with an occupation that has been removed from the STSOL, may be eligible for a refund of their visa application fee. Nominating businesses for these applications may also be eligible for a refund of related fees.

1

 

 

abolition-replacement-457.pdf

Edited April 21, 2017 by Rumpelstiltskin

[TakeItOnTheChin]

On the face of it the citizenship changes do not seem well thought out and if they are implemented then I am quite disappointed, very frustrating. We are on a 489 regional visa, which is a provisional visa, not temporary and not permanent, with a pathway to PR after 2 years living in a regional area. Before this announcement we would applied for PR after 2 years and then would have to complete the 4 year required for citizenship with a further 2 years on PR. This announcement means that I now have to complete the 2 years on a regional visa and then another 4 years on PR = 6 years for citizenship. Add another year for the time PR and citizenship applications take which means it would take me 7 years to get citizenship. How can that be fair? A 489 visa holder would integrate into society and the Oz way of life as would a 190/189 visa holder, why should we therefore have to wait 6/7 years as opposed to 4 years for citizenship that 190/189 visa holders would have to wait. Going regional means that I am even more committed or as committed than other visa holders.

 

The other ridiculous thing is that I would have to complete the English test 3 times, one already done for my 489, another for PR and then another for citizenship? There is something wrong with that concept, surely my English cannot deteriorate from the first time I did the English test.

 

I am sure everyone has their frustrations with these new proposed rules...........I am just putting mine out there...damn

Edited April 21, 2017 by TakeItOnTheChin

[RYLC]

You can submit your opinion / personal circumstances about citizenship here:

 

How to provide your views

You can submit your views on this paper by 1 June 2017 tocitizenship.submissions@border.gov.au

[RedPanda]

I think I want to suggest to them that any IELTS result averaging above 7 across the board, that they already on their system ie lodged by you for PR or whatever visa, should be sufficient to exempt you from writing it again. I'm just saying 7 and up to provide a small measure of security for them, if you got a 7 and then spent the time in between in Australia, it's highly doubtful that you would now score 5s.

That's my 5c worth of opinion.

[TakeItOnTheChin]

21 minutes ago, RedPanda said:

I think I want to suggest to them that any IELTS result averaging above 7 across the board, that they already on their system ie lodged by you for PR or whatever visa, should be sufficient to exempt you from writing it again. I'm just saying 7 and up to provide a small measure of security for them, if you got a 7 and then spent the time in between in Australia, it's highly doubtful that you would now score 5s.

That's my 5c worth of opinion.

RedPanda, not a good idea, I am sure that 80% of the current population of Oz cannot get 7's for IELTS, and probably 90% of migrants. I did, but that does not make me more special than the next guy. People from all different nationalities are here, for whatever reason. English competency and 4 years of PR certainly are not measurements for real values; embracing the country; or personal contributions to the tax system. Maybe someone from Bangladesh is working as a chef in downtown Sydney..................surely he cannot be expected to get 7's, but at the same time is contributing greatly to this country

[CazK]

To add my 2c worth: I think the IELTS dilemma (needing to retake it) stems from the fact that your results expire after two years (according to the organisation that issues them). "The IELTS Test Partners cannot confirm the validity of test results that are more than two years old."

[RedPanda]

1 minute ago, TakeItOnTheChin said:

RedPanda, not a good idea, I am sure that 80% of the current population of Oz cannot get 7's for IELTS, and probably 90% of migrants. I did, but that does not make me more special than the next guy. People from all different nationalities are here, for whatever reason. English competency and 4 years of PR certainly are not measurements for real values; embracing the country; or personal contributions to the tax system. Maybe someone from Bangladesh is working as a chef in downtown Sydney..................surely he cannot be expected to get 7's, but at the same time is contributing greatly to this country

I'm not saying that people should get 7s, I'm saying that if they did and they've submitted it to DIBP, then that should be accepted as proof that they can speak English. I'm not sure why they want to increase the PR period, I really don't see what difference it makes what visa you spent your time on. In fact, if you can survive on any of the temporary visas without the added support that PR gives, I would think that should be taken as better proof that you can support yourself.

I understand why English is such an important point for them, it affects every aspect of a person's interactions with the rest of their community, so if you've spent 4 years or longer in a community and you want to join it permanently, then you should put in the effort to learn the community's language. That's also why I'm not saying they should set the bar at 7 for entry/acceptance, I'm saying that if you have already submitted proof of that, then they have it on record, they should use their records.

[RedPanda]

2 minutes ago, CazK said:

To add my 2c worth: I think the IELTS dilemma (needing to retake it) stems from the fact that your results expire after two years (according to the organisation that issues them). "The IELTS Test Partners cannot confirm the validity of test results that are more than two years old."

Yup, the later ones said 3 years. But it's still shorter than the visa time. This is why I said if they have problems with that, just put the exemption one bracket above the threshold. I doubt anyone's English would drop two levels in four years of living in an English only country.

[HadEnoughofJuju]

Just got this message after logging into my IMMI account. Don't know if it's been posted yet so sorry if it has.

 

Australian citizenship applications

 

The changes to the requirements to become an Australian citizen will come into effect, and apply to applications made from the date of the Government’s announcement on 20 April 2017. The changes will not apply to applications made before 20 April 2017. Applicants will receive communication on the implementation of these measures and any additional information and documentation that may be required to support their  application.

Edited April 21, 2017 by HadEnoughofJuju

[BellaR]

27 minutes ago, HadEnoughofJuju said:

 The changes will not apply to applications made before 20 April 2017. 

 

Huge relief for us!

[Brad76]

I think the requirement to retake the English test and pass it at a lower level is complete rubbish! Clearly something that wasn't very well thought through.

 

You need to demonstrate English competence in order to get PR, I can understand that, but what changes other than a date on a piece of paper between the awarding of PR and obtaining citizenship??

 

It was implied somewhere in the news that Turnbull is feeling the heat! I suppose he's hoping that this will resonate with the average voter and shore up his political stock.

[Mara]

@Brad76 you need to remember that this is not just for the applicant, but for the whole family, or those over 18.. So many migrants arrive, where only the applicant is English literate, but not the wife, so... you need to look at the whole picture, not just from the viewpoint of South Africans..

 

When we applied for citizenship, years ago, we had to go for an interview, so that they could check if we can actually converse in English! Well blow it if I did not get an Indian guy, who had such an accent, that it was difficult to understand him. I protested, and asked to see a supervisor, when she arrived, I voiced my complaint in English, and said to her that if I am capable of speaking to her, I do hope she accepts that I am English literate... she just ticked the box and signed off on it.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Mara

[HadEnoughofJuju]

@Mara, now that is funny. I'm sorry but that is a complete slap in the face of the whole point of having the interview, even if it was a while back.

 

There's a guy that comes around every Wednesday to our shop to replace the forklift gas cylinder. From what I can gather he must be here on a 457 as a partner because he's English is non existent. The first time he asked for my name to put on the delivery docket, he used the electronic barcode scanner machine thingy and pointed to where my name had to be filled in and I had to do the rest. When I asked him how he's day had been. He answered with "my name is Suresh". I left it there and said good day mate, to which I got a see you later in a heavy Aussie accent.

Edited April 22, 2017 by HadEnoughofJuju

[HadEnoughofJuju]

@BellaR, I know what you mean. Our application was submitted on 5th April, five days after we became eligible to apply. Super glad we didn't wait. I know so many people that thought they would get around to it and are now regretting it.

[BellaR]

5 minutes ago, HadEnoughofJuju said:

@BellaR, I know what you mean. Our application was submitted on 5th April, five days after we became eligible to apply. Super glad we didn't wait. I know so many people that thought they would get around to it and are now regretting it.

 

I know, right!

 

i have seen so many people complain that they have been eligible for some time already but have just not got round to doing it. That must be the worst feeling ever!

 

i did our applications on the very day we became eligible, that was in December last year already. So everything is done and dusted, except the ceremony. 

 

My relief when all this broke was positively palpable!

[Thinus Ferreira]

We are in the same predicament, could have lodged citizenship app Oct 2016, but had a death in the family, wife and kids were in SA for a while and we needed to wait for the SA approval of dual citizenship. Then we moved to Queensland and could not lodge before we had a new lease agreement.............. We signed yesterday. Perfect storm I guess, but very disappointed.

 

Please encourage each and every person affected by this to have their objection noted by submitting a complaint / comment email to citizenship.submissions@border.gov.au

 

The more people do the better!!

 

PS. We have been here 5 years, with the last 18 months on PR

[Brad76]

Hey Mara,

 

Secondary applicants have to demonstrate functional English (probably the equivalent of a 6 on IELTS) as far as I can recall. If it applies to the whole family great, so you arrived with children who between the date of arrival and citizenship turn 18, went to a local school (I would assume) and were educated in English, don't see why they would have to demonstrate English competence? Bearing in mind the main applicant completed the IELTS/Equivalent and secondary adult applicant(s) demonstrated functional English.

 

I can see the spin when it comes to 457s especially if nothing/little was established prior to grant but still don't agree with the test proposal as a blanket rule. Are 457s subject to testing when converting to PR?

 

Anyway, I don't think this is all cast in stone as yet - still has to go through a public commentary phase and parliament?

[Vanbros]

On 4/20/2017 at 4:03 PM, JulesR said:

I WISH citizenship was my major worry ?.  I know redoing IELTS and having to wait additional years is a pain in the butt, but at least you're IN.  With these visa shakeups, and vetasses putting a hold on assessments, my whole immigration journey is thrown into turmoil ?

 

I'm trying so hard to remain positive, but it seems like it's not a good time to be trying to gain access to Aus.  

Hi JulesR.  Where is the confirmation that all "and vetasses putting a hold on assessments,"

 

thanks

Edited April 22, 2017 by Vanbros

[JulesR]

@Vanbros - it was posted on the vetassess website a couple of days ago.  I checked again last night and the "technical" jobs are open for assessment again, other occupations are going to be open for assessment on Wed 26 April.  

 

My application is a race against time - I need to get mine in before my 45th birthday next month, so every day counts ?

[RedPanda]

What I want to know, and have not been able to get an answer for is this: Will processing on all citizenship applications be put on pause until later in the year when they sort it all out??? Because it's all fine to say "Oh effective immediately!" but nobody knows exactly what "it" is? 

[HadEnoughofJuju]

@RedPanda, from what I can gather they will process all those applications that were made before 20 April before they start looking at the new ones and before they can do that IMMI will have to formulate the new tests and application criteria before they can do anything. 

 

One would expect that before an announcement like that is made that there would have been some planning and perpetration done to facilitate a smooth transition, unfortunately though I don't think that's how Aussie politics works. The ruling party makes the rules and the workers have to scramble to affect the changes and deal with the mess.

[RedPanda]

36 minutes ago, HadEnoughofJuju said:

One would expect that before an announcement like that is made that there would have been some planning and perpetration done to facilitate a smooth transition, unfortunately though I don't think that's how Aussie politics works. The ruling party makes the rules and the workers have to scramble to affect the changes and deal with the mess.

 

 

      ...process of reaction.

Whatever it is, apart from submissions to the website they made available, there is little one can do, so rather just accept it and move on with your new strategy.