So. Came back. And...

[hopalong]

So. After 6 years in Oz and getting our citizenship after four of those years, we decided to come back to SA. We packed up all our stuff, and shipped it here.

Been here now for 8 months. And it feels like the worst choice we could have ever made. I won't go into all the detail, but it's basically the same reasons we left, and are the same reasons most people leave.

I'll save you from the "everything is worse than it was 6 years ago in SA" spiel. This is not what this post is about.

The thing is that I am petrified of going back to Oz. Went into depression the first time we moved there. Took me 7 months to find a job. Even though I am highly qualified and experienced with an Aussie masters degree in business, and a decade of management experience.

I experienced so much damn xenophobia and bullying in the workplace that I thought maybe I'm the problem. Maybe I need to just "become more Aussie". But on closer analysis, almost every foreigner in there was treated like crap and bullied. Tried another two companies. And it was pretty much the same thing. I clearly don't have the thick skin that some of my more successful expat acquaintances have who have experienced the same thing but are able to move on quickly.

Even as an Aussie citizen, things didn't change. Being bullied and being front of line for retrenchment.

Hence my trepidation of going back to Melbourne.

I love what Aus gave to us. A sense of safety from crime and the chance to earn good money and bring our children up in a great environment. But I hate what it did to me personally. Taking a few hits on the chin is one thing. But to take them day in and day out kills your spirit and your will to go on. Thank God for my children and wife.

Have any of you ever left and gone back? Did you find it different the second time around?

We do have an option to go to the UK. I love the brits. So easy to get along with and I can identify with them. But starting again with a family in a new country is freaking me out. I guess six years of being broken down will do that to you.

Edited September 17, 2013 by hopalong

[JH6410]

McCabes, you are funny but see the reality. Not even a holiday in Sandton would be good, to may politicians!! would NEVER look back!!! am a citizen and love the benefits...

Australia is not the land of milk and honey, it's just a safe place to work and live in with education opportunities and equal opportunity employment. Also has public transport and a system to address employment issues. No guaranteed work but they love South Africans because we are not lazy and get the job done.

[Bronwyn&Co]

Although this may come as a surprise to many on the forum, there are a LOT of South Africans who cannot settle in Australia for one reason or another. I don't for one minute think I will retire here, in 10 years I'll probably be long gone. Unfortunately not to SA, but elsewhere.

I have found a lot to like, and a lot to dislike. But this country is a great leveller. I've said it before. I believe if you struggled financially in SA you'll like it here, and if you were wealthy - beware! The shock of living in a semi-socialistic environment is radical.

It may just come down to personality ;-)

Edited February 4, 2014 by Bronwyn&Co

[Splunken]

And earning R1.8m puts you in the very top bracket of SA earners. Out of interest, where does $250k per year put you?

PastaPete

I agree with you 100%, there is a process in Aus, use it and it works.

Desertroseas: to get back to your comments, immigration is not for everybody especially if you have strong family ties in South Africa, but think why you left in the first place and if this has changed then you are good to go back. Good luck in any case with your decision, we have accepted Aus as our own and accepted the culture, opened a business, that my wife runs and we are happy, like I said it took 3 years to get there though moving from a R1,8mil income to a $250K income hits home.

Johan

[Bronwyn&Co]

What???! Do you really find all Austrlians to be like this?

I do. Well, not all but most.

[summer24]

I can only wonder if Desertroseas is for real, or stirring for the fun of it - no offense intended, but there are a number of troll-like qualities to that post. Either that... or I really have to wonder...

I'm glad you enjoy your holidays here... I hope you realise that there is a stark contrast in having a holiday vs working and living here, day in, day out.

Maybe if you're from russia or china, SA looks good. But I can't credit that someone from a first world country would want to live here...

Unless of course, all your holidays are spent in Sandton? Then it... kind of... makes sense.

Obvioulsy you haven't been in cape town for a while, this place is filled with first world people, most of them on exceptional skills visas whatever that may be....walk down Kloof street and the American twang is everywhere.....Plenty of Dutch and Germans too...in fact I would say 30% of my friends are from Europe, UK and Canada....1 American friend :-).......

[mistermoose]

I do. Well, not all but most.

Interesting! Seeing as you're both from Brisbane, could it be a region-specific thing?

Where would you want to move in 10 years after Aus?

[Bronwyn&Co]

Interesting! Seeing as you're both from Brisbane, could it be a region-specific thing?

Where would you want to move in 10 years after Aus?

No, we spent 4 years in Adelaide before moving to Brisbane, which is a lot better.

I don't know where we will go, but it will be somewhere else.

[AndreR]

Its kind of silly having this argument, because everyone's reality is different, My sister lives in Dainfern, and flies overseas on holiday at least twice a year. Her three kids have also built homes in Dainfern and work in the family business. They ironically make their money from crime (they own a security company, almost got you there , didn't I ). From their perspective things are awesome in their bubble, and if the worst came to the worst, they could buy their way to safety.

I can also see the appeal of foreigners making their home in Cape Town. It really is a beautiful place, especially if you have some dollars stashed away. Furthermore, they're foreigners, and have an easy exit strategy should the proverbial hit the fan.

There are lots of things wrong with Australia, but being a grown up I can deal with most of them, because in the bigger scheme of things they're not such big issues after all, and being happy enough in my own skin I can just blow them off. Many of the things that are wrong with South Africa just scare the living crap out of me. I wont mention those things because we wouldn't be on this forum if we didn't already know what they are.

Finally, before you leave, try and figure out if you are unhappy with the circumstances of living in South Africa/Australia , or if you're just plain an unhappy person. Emigrating wont solve your depression, or your PTSD, and neither will going back to South Africa, you will just be a much poorer unhappy person.

Edited February 5, 2014 by AndreR

[rozellem]

Finally, before you leave, try and figure out if you are unhappy with the circumstances of living in South Africa/Australia , or if you're just plain an unhappy person. Emigrating wont solve your depression, or your PTSD, and neither will going back to South Africa, you will just be a much poorer unhappy person.

Exactly. Like they always say, "Wherever you go, there you are."

[McCabes]

summer24 - there's a big difference there. We all know the western Cape is kind of an island in the stormy seas of SA. Secondly, as AndreR says, they have an immediate exit if things go wrong - where are normal south africans going to run to?

Plus, I would guess that the foreigners are living in the top levels of society in the cape, so again, they're buffered against most of the cr4p going on that middle and lower classes are dealing with. They might enjoy the experience of living in the 1st-world areas of cape town, but my guess would be that they won't stay forever, or if they do, they will be among the top 1%, retiring to a millionaire's mansion, with everything that goes with that. Or maybe less, if they really hate the european weather

Bronwyn, that's very interesting, and I can only agree seems to be what happens with forumites as well. Some just aren't happy. I guess we just need to all accept the conflicting views without necessarily needing to understand them.

Edited February 5, 2014 by McCabes

[JH6410]

Hi Splunken, buying power of $250 is way less than R1,8m in South Africa. Even though this is around the higher side of salary brackets in Aus, it all depends on which state you are in.

Bronwyn&Co, we were the other way round, spent 2 years in Brisbane then moved to Adelaide, hated every minute in Brisbane, it was like living in South Africa and companies / employers evaluate you as such (another South African). Moved to Adelaide as we found it better to raise the family there. I still have great friends in Brisbane, mostly from the UK and they love it.

There is something I fully believe in and made us survive the change, when we moved to Australia we realised that we had to adapt to local Australian customs, mix with locals and not go after South African clubs and more. That was our survival, we don't have many ex-South African friends, heaps of other friends from all over the world and in the workplace this is a great position to be in. We adapted as Australia is NOT South Africa, you have immigrated, it was your choice, deal with it, "when in Rome". Me being a Stellenbosch boy and still speak Afrikaans at home, my multi-cultural friends respect that.

We won't retire here and wanted to get an Australian passport as this opens the world of travel and looking to retire elseware. with a 9/1 exchange rate your pension / provident fund is reduced to zero and starting again at the age of 35+ is difficult. Kids have option of post grad studies in the UK, arranged by their AUS Uni (paid under HECS - Aus Government scheme) so we may even end up in regional France owning a small B&B while they study in the UK, 90 mins away by train. Does South Africa have this?

Edited February 5, 2014 by JH6410

[Bronwyn&Co]

A large part of our concern is affordability, because our main business remains in South Africa. So although the business there is performing extremely well, with the exchange rate the way it is we cannot continue to pay dollars with Rand income for ever. We put our younger kids in pvt schools and our eldest was not granted PR with us, so he is not yet eligible for Hecs. All in all we are spending an absolute fortune to live and study here and it is just not sustainable. So our decision is largely financial (among other reasons).

[JH6410]

Bronwyn&Co, you have experienced the reality, if your motivation is financial then Australia is not for you. Sorry for being so direct but it's true and you have experienced it. We had a good business and 7 properties in South Africa before we left. We sold the lot before leaving. You either let go or go back. I would not want to manage the business or rental properties we had from here, just not viable and the exchange rate was a killer. At least I got the money across at R5,1 to the$ 8 years ago. The good thing is that my wife's family (retired) visits us 3 months a year and at the exchange rate I smile at the ticket prices.

[mistermoose]

Bronwyn&Co, you have experienced the reality, if your motivation is financial then Australia is not for you.

I have spoken to many people, and read about others, for whom this is not true. They have more spending money and more savings every month than they had in South Africa, UK or just about anywhere else.

[HansaPlease]

I have spoken to many people, and read about others, for whom this is not true. They have more spending money and more savings every month than they had in South Africa, UK or just about anywhere else.

Yup, agreed. It's not a one size fits all. Just like you can't tar people with the same brush, you can't assume their financial situation is the same as yours.

[Nev]

When we were in south Africa we were thinking 1 kid shortest possible maternity leave as we needed a double income, we went on holiday once every second year and drove (Generally to the coast from Joburg), we had zero savings & lots of debt

Here we stay in a bigger and nicer house (As opposed to an apartment), plan for 2 kids, my wife will be taking 5 years off to raise them (Till they go to school) and go camping at least 10 times a year with at least 1 long distance trip to Sydney or the gold coast on holiday, we already have great savings, only a car debt and that is not far from finished

I am doing the same job here as i was doing in South Africa, if i was to go back to SA i would be taking a massive step back in our quality of life

[AndreaL]

Our situation is the same as Nev, our life is so very different here than in South Africa, much better, hubby is an electrician....................I've heard many people from trade backgrounds say the same................perhaps not at first, but within 2 or 3 years, yes.

We had no assets that side and came here with $5000.

[Nev]

Yep, we 2 years in, first year was rough, then it just got better and better

[Donovan83]

I have spoken to many people, and read about others, for whom this is not true. They have more spending money and more savings every month than they had in South Africa, UK or just about anywhere else.

This is certainly the case for me, and it's the case for many people I know who moved here from SA. That said, I don't have a car here (just a little scooter), but even if I did I would probably still have more cash left over every month.

The fact that I am here and my partner is in SA has highlighted the differences in the countries a lot more starkly. He mentions that the cost of everything just keeps going up that side, but I can't honestly say the same thing about Aus. A tub of yogurt cost $4.50 when I arrived, it still costs $4.50, milk was $2, still the same, bread $4, same. The only thing that has noticeably increased is petrol but that's no different to anywhere in the world. Every month since living here, without exception, I have managed to add to my savings. On top of that they do pay a decent interest rate here and it's in a currency that's holding value better than the Rand.

It's really nice to see some good stories and good news

[JH6410]

I am glad you guys are doing great, we are happy, financially sound, no debt due to property and business sale in South Africa, had to scale down a bit but will never look back. Been here 8 years now. Kids went to private schools and now at Uni, Aus was and is good to us, not complaining.

[SurferMan]

Me, I earned a fortune in SA, but the bills were even higher. Here, I am almost debt free. (One year more) Cars (x2) will be paid By July and cards by Dec. I live like a king in Aus, i started waay down the ladder when I got here workwise, but have slowly drifted upwards, at a nice easy pace.

I earn now more than I did in SA. I have almost nothing to whine about (Except merging and roundabouts)

We are blessed to have what we have, yes I worked hard for it, but God's grace is the provider not me. I am uber happy here in Aus. I'm sorry Desertroseas does not enjoy it here. But not all people will like it, but more importantly, not all people are that adaptable.

We came here with the clothes on our backs and $6000.

[Garrick]

Read my migration blog/journal and you'll see we didn't have it easy. But we've worked through it. Bad jobs and all. If things didn't work here in Melbourne we would try somewhere else in Australia first.

I work in IT and I live for innovation. Of 7 people that applied for 2 positions I got 1. Even over people that had been there longer than me. Hardly a week goes by where I don't challenge some or other system. But what I have to accept is that I no longer work at a company like the one I left in SA. They work slower. But I am completely respected by the people I work with who are from all over the eastern hemisphere.

What I'm saying is that sometimes you hit a bad streak in life like my first job or two in Aus, but I hold to the old Powerade advert...I...AM...NOT...DONE.

How you choose to use the stumbling blocks thrown before you is up to you. How about building a house with them? For everyone choosing to go back, can you look back and say you gave the whole continent of Aus a fair go?

-G

[Desertroseas]

Although this may come as a surprise to many on the forum, there are a LOT of South Africans who cannot settle in Australia for one reason or another. I don't for one minute think I will retire here, in 10 years I'll probably be long gone. Unfortunately not to SA, but elsewhere.

I have found a lot to like, and a lot to dislike. But this country is a great leveller. I've said it before. I believe if you struggled financially in SA you'll like it here, and if you were wealthy - beware! The shock of living in a semi-socialistic environment is radical.

It may just come down to personality ;-)

First honest/ smart answer.

[Desertroseas]

Obvioulsy you haven't been in cape town for a while, this place is filled with first world people, most of them on exceptional skills visas whatever that may be....walk down Kloof street and the American twang is everywhere.....Plenty of Dutch and Germans too...in fact I would say 30% of my friends are from Europe, UK and Canada....1 American

Obvioulsy you haven't been in cape town for a while, this place is filled with first world people, most of them on exceptional skills visas whatever that may be....walk down Kloof street and the American twang is everywhere.....Plenty of Dutch and Germans too...in fact I would say 30% of my friends are from Europe, UK and Canada....1 American friend :-).......

I agree. Cape Town had become one of the most cosmopolitan

places in the world.

[Desertroseas]

I can only wonder if Desertroseas is for real, or stirring for the fun of it - no offense intended, but there are a number of troll-like qualities to that post. Either that... or I really have to wonder...

I'm glad you enjoy your holidays here... I hope you realise that there is a stark contrast in having a holiday vs working and living here, day in, day out.

Maybe if you're from russia or china, SA looks good. But I can't credit that someone from a first world country would want to live here...

Unless of course, all your holidays are spent in Sandton? Then it... kind of... makes sense.

Have you been or only heard about Sandton? Because there are much nicer/ exclusive, richer areas than Sandton