UNHAPPY IN AUSTRALIA

[4Coetzees]

Lately I saw alot of posts about unhappiness with the move and the hubby and coping with the kids while hubby is working and house cleaning and etc etc etc.

Who wanted to return to SA after a few days or weeks or months and why?

Are there any that returned to SA and might go back to Australia?

Are there any of you that never want to return to Australia?

Edited July 16, 2010 by Want to go now....

[RYLC]

28 minutes ago, Naomin81 said:

Mrs. Judgmental,

Haha lol, you can't really say that after reading one or two forum posts. We will go on a Look & See when he attends the next international conference (I'm not sure what it's about) in Aus (next year it's in Colorado). I've lived in the UK and my husband has been to Korea. And Mozambique if that counts, and Botswana, and Namibia. I've also lived in Gauteng, Free State and Limpopo.

We're not just going to hop on a plane and fly over. We're doing more research than you can believe and also looking at other countries. Maids are pretty expensive in any first world country.. We have 3 years to make up our minds.

And yes there are several things I don't feel completely comfortable with wrt Australia.

I've been lower than low looking for a job so you can't tell me anything about that. I've worked in security, catering, cosmetics, door to door sales, etc while I was qualified. In SA I had to waiter because I couldn't find a job and people who studied with me and had jobs came to eat the restaurant where I worked.

Sincerely,

Naomi

All my comments have come from my heart of not wanting you to be unhappy in a country that doesn't give you the life you want and asking whether you have visited other countries is a valid question. Obviously this has hit a nerve with you which was never my intention.  If you've seen any of my posts to other people on here you'll know that I try to give constructive practical advice.  Your reply is aggressive and I don't want to set you off so I'll leave you to it.  Hope your husband comes around and things work out for you. 

[Naomin81]

57 minutes ago, RedPanda said:

Ok, I have a question: Would you still mind the 'lower' job if it paid the same as the 'higher' one?

And then also: Have you looked at the Australian pay structure? Engineers earn the same as teachers.(literally, really. I looked it up a year ago)

I'm not asking this to be nasty or anything, I just want to check if you are aware of this? Australia really is a much 'flatter' society than RSA. In Aussie you don't go study something hard to earn more money, you study that cause that's what you want to do. They also don't go:"Woah, you are a doctor! Respect!", they just say:"Oh, yeah? Had a good day, seen anything interesting lately?"
They have enough skilled migration to keep key skills filled so they don't need a monetary incentive for their people to study hard. And I doubt they'd tolerate migrants very well if they had to bow and scrape to them.  

Read up, and go over with an open mind.

redpanda, I know all that as I've looked at salaries.

 

I insisted on the marriage contract as it is because I work harder and earn more, and I'd gladly give it all to my kids. My husband should work and earn whatever he wants to own. No free loading. We have life insurance set up to cover each other if anyone ever dies.

Aus scares me now that I know the answer to that question...

[Naomin81]

4 minutes ago, RYLC said:

All my comments have come from my heart of not wanting you to be unhappy in a country that doesn't give you the life you want and asking whether you have visited other countries is a valid question. Obviously this has hit a nerve with you which was never my intention.  If you've seen any of my posts to other people on here you'll know that I try to give constructive practical advice.  Your reply is aggressive and I don't want to set you off so I'll leave you to it.  Hope your husband comes around and things work out for you. 

I feel that the issue of cleaning and salaries has been relayed to me several times over. Is that the only big difference between SA and Aus, or why is it mentioned this many times?

But mostly I feel accused of being stuck-up, because I have a degree and a nanny. It seems that just the fact that my husband and I are qualified with a bit of experience invariably makes us snobs before we’ve even set foot in Australia. I'm here to get information not be judged.

I'm frustrated more than aggressive. Please don't start avoiding me because of this.

[RedPanda]

1 hour ago, Naomin81 said:

I'm frustrated more than aggressive. Please don't start avoiding me because of this.

Just keep asking your questions. You'll get answers  And if you get grief from people, check if it's always the same people, then you know, you and they obviously don't get along. Just keep swimming.

It's only after many people in a community give you grief that you know you should move on.

If the marriage contract worries you, ask someone. I think I'm going to start that question as a stand alone.... because I certainly want to know what my "Outside communion of Property, with accrual" translates to, and what exactly we're bound to in terms of Australian marriage law. So I'll go start that one, ask if there is anyone on the forum who has legal expertise on both sides.

*Panda wombles off to do that*

[Mara]

@ Naomi... I often hear that people say "if you cannot see their face, you cannot know what they are saying", I am inclined to agree with that. I too found some of your posts in line with the judgement that "Australia is not quite good enough for us". We are now getting to know you, after your last explanation, we have a better understanding of who you are and where you come from... so please, bear with us, we are a good bunch of people, who tend to take everyone's journey to heart. RYLC, Red Panda, Matt etc, are great contributors to this forum, I honestly do not think that they have a bad bone among them. I do hope that you get all the information that you need, and that your migration journey is a smooth and happy journey!

 

[Shellfish]

13 hours ago, RedPanda said:

Although the sentiment is true in general, I don't know where this is coming from specifically, aimed at Naomin81?

Nope - just my observations of Saffas back home and having lived abroad for 16 years - but Australia is the worst because they have the highest minimum in the world - can you imagine paying someone a livable wage for removing refuse?! There should be a law against it 

(sorry, my sarcasm is set on high alert at the moment  

[AFreshStart]

 

15 hours ago, Naomin81 said:

I feel that the issue of cleaning and salaries has been relayed to me several times over. Is that the only big difference between SA and Aus, or why is it mentioned this many times?

But mostly I feel accused of being stuck-up, because I have a degree and a nanny. It seems that just the fact that my husband and I are qualified with a bit of experience invariably makes us snobs before we’ve even set foot in Australia. I'm here to get information not be judged.

I'm frustrated more than aggressive. Please don't start avoiding me because of this.

I'm not sure that cleaning and salaries have been mentioned more than once by individual posters, please remember that each of us is a real person behind the keyboard and we each have our own experiences to share and if you see that cleaning and wages are coming up time and time again it's something that has resonated with many of us.

I think, as others have shared, it comes down to the fact that labour in South Africa is inexpensive where Australia has one of, if not the highest minimum wages in the world so you either have to earn a packet or get used to doing these things for yourself and sharing the load. It would be best to start doing these now, as RedPanda has suggested she is doing and what we did, doing you own cleaning, minding your kids and sharing the load and starting to build a structure that relies on you and your husband because as I've shared before, that is, for the most part, going to be the sum total of your network here in Australia (of the UK, USA, NZ or wherever you end up).

Australians choose careers because they can, they can study and do whatever they want, even without coming from money because they have access to assistance through VET FEE-HELP and it's the great leveler, because here you can earn as much being a Doctor, Teacher or Lawyer and a Tradie can earn as much as an Accountant. Having a degree doesn't give you a ticket to a career like it does, or did in South Africa, and no better than the US where right now they have high unemployment and the average graduate is sitting with over $30,000 in student debt. 

There are many different things about Australia, and many of them you have to experience for yourself. It's highly regulated culture for one, across every facet of daily living, but it makes for a welcomed change from living in "The wild west".

I love being part of a country where we see taxes being used to serve its citizens, from quality FREE education and health care for all through city planning and consulting those living in them, in particularly here in Sydney, in the City of Sydney metropol .

I love the freedom my kids and I have in catching public transport day or night and the free parks and cycle tracks, none of which we had in South Africa.

But what Australia isn't, is South Africa. You lose your family, friends, network and community, these are things one takes for granted and you realize just how much you need to rely on your husband/wife for support as you come to this realization, which might be the day you land, or on your anniversary, but invariably that moment will come and you'll need their support.

This is what worries me by many of your posts, many of us have seen marriages end first hand under the strains of immigration and it's painful. I currently have a friend whose wife has left him and taken the kids and he's on 70/30 time and spent over $25,000 trying to get 50/50 and is at the point of asking friends for financial help just to clear his credit card debt.

In another case a friends wife took their kids and moved back to South Africa leaving him alone here in a new country.

Immigration puts incredible strain on your marriage, particularity if you have children. I'll be honest, much of what you have shared has sent up a couple red flags and I don't want to dabble in your family affairs, but please head the warnings.

Invest in each other, your marriage and your children because that is what is going to get you through those trying and rough times you'll go through as an immigrant, on the days when it doesn't makes sense, when you are overwhelmed, anxious, stressed or afraid.

Cheers

Matt

[Mel-B]

The members on this forum are really sincere and take time out from their busy lives to assist us Ozzy wanna be's

My mom has a saying: do you want nice or do you want honest?

People here are generally honest and very kind, as they have sympathy for the ones busy going over as it is really hard. I read through the comments and can honestly say that I agree with Matt, it does not sound that you and your husband are on the same page. Then such a move would more than likely cause strain. This is just my honest opinion. Yes, I don't know you But I have some life and people experience. I have a lot of family that have moved all over the world, and there are many sad endings to their stories (luckily not all of them), where the move happened where both parties were not on the same page to begin with.

You must realise that your husband will be the only person you have to rely on, to lean on, to be your best friend for a long time.

I understand that you feel judged, this journey is hard, so many decisions, so many factors to consider... its an emotional roller coaster. Just keep on asking and don't get upset if someone gives you their honest opinion, heck that's what we are here for right?

Good luck, it took us many years to prepare and we are finally leaving in February 2016. I have also had eye roll moments and been tapped on the knuckles over my years on this forum. But I have also learned so much, the experience here has been amazing. Who else could I share my questions and fears and insecurities with? People not on this journey do not fully understand.

[Shellfish]

1 hour ago, Mel-B said:

 

You must realise that your husband will be the only person you have to rely on, to lean on, to be your best friend for a long time.

 

Never more so than when you are in a new country. I am lucky enough to have family and made some wonderful friends in Australia but no-one comes close to the bond that my husband and I have. Some days we wanna throttle one another  but most days, I have no idea what I would be or do without him. 

[Tiermelk]

4 hours ago, AFreshStart said:

because here you can earn as much being a Doctor, Teacher or Lawyer and a Tradie can earn as much as an Accountant.

I believe the salary equality thing is being overstated. Go and have a look at http://www.livingin-australia.com/salaries-for-professions-in-australia/

In Sydney a GP is on $300k+ and Secondary School Teacher $91 000 max.  In general I agree that things are more level but not that level.

I also know of lots of people making use of hired help at home, you don`t employ someone to clean your house you get a business to do it.  They come do the job and go. It comes down to the value of your time. Like this lady - she really values her time, and probally earns a little more than the poor doctor on $300k  http://www.smh.com.au/money/outsourcing-puts-a-price-on-spare-time-20151024-gkhq7v.html

[Naomin81]

If there is a divorce could you organize your own split of assets or does the state specifically want this 70/30 ratio? Even if I hate my husband I'd never put him in a situation where he has debt because I divorced him. I'd also rather drown myself than see my kids without their dad.

I went to UK with someone, and we split up. While under pressure he broke down and did nothing. I really can't respect someone who can't help themselves. Luckily my husband has been living under my scrutiny for 11 years, and I've upgraded his armour to level over 9000.

If at least one of us has a job, I'm sure we'll be fine. We'll soon find our own way of maximizing convenience because we're lazy like that. Before our 2nd child we thought our lives were about to end for good, and my husband had a mid life attack. Once the kid was there, we fell into a new routine and it's not half as hectic as we thought it would be.

The reason I read this thread - Unhappy in Australia - is because I want to prepare for the worst. So by all means give me the worst scenarios and issues I'm likely to face.

[Mel-B]

5 minutes ago, Naomin81 said:

 I've upgraded his armour to level over 9000.

Haha had a good laugh at that My husband also has a high armour rating.

[AFreshStart]

1 hour ago, Tiermelk said:

I believe the salary equality thing is being overstated. Go and have a look at http://www.livingin-australia.com/salaries-for-professions-in-australia/

In Sydney a GP is on $300k+ and Secondary School Teacher $91 000 max.  In general I agree that things are more level but not that level.

I also know of lots of people making use of hired help at home, you don`t employ someone to clean your house you get a business to do it.  They come do the job and go. It comes down to the value of your time. Like this lady - she really values her time, and probally earns a little more than the poor doctor on $300k  http://www.smh.com.au/money/outsourcing-puts-a-price-on-spare-time-20151024-gkhq7v.html

Tiermelk,

It depends on the school and position. I can tell you from first hand experience that a deputy principal role at one of the MANY private schools here charging $40K+ a year in tuition is not paid $91k a year... Of course within ALL these fields there are those that will earn more, or less, the same way a GP at a state subsidized bulk billing medical co-op is not going to earn what a specialist at a private hospital is going to earn.

Contrast this to the VAST difference between the lowly bricklayer in South Africa earning R250 a day vs a bricklayer here in Aus earning $27-$30 an hour.

I have a friend who runs his own electrical contracting business and earns a VERY good salary rivaling many other occupations and mates of his running their own building contacting companies earning $250K a year, even the average wage for employed construction managers (working for a building co) is $110K a year, as someone from a family line of master craftsmen and builder in South Africa, well, the playing field is A LOT more balanced and livable.

Cheers

Matt

 

 

 

 

[Naomin81]

I got about $88k a year when researching a biology teacher salary. But a receptionist gets about $40k. That will definitely not be enough to support a family of 4, or will it? I found a budget online - $75k a year for a family of 4 and 2 dogs.

[ottg]

My take on Stats 101 - Average salaries

That is the problem with statistics - average salary means exactly that; 50% earns more and 50% earns less and has very little meaning except for the person using it for a benchmark. You see what you want to see.

Better to understand the story behind the stats; median, spread around the mean, histograms, quartiles etc. Don't know where to find better data but this can help...but it also depends if you work for yourself i.e contractor or self employed which tip the scale much higher

http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=Electrician/Hourly_Rate

Also interesting data:

http://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2015/jun/2.html

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/wages

 

 

Edited December 2, 2015 by ottg

[Mel-B]

29 minutes ago, Naomin81 said:

I got about $88k a year when researching a biology teacher salary. But a receptionist gets about $40k. That will definitely not be enough to support a family of 4, or will it? I found a budget online - $75k a year for a family of 4 and 2 dogs.

Which city are you looking at? Rent is more on my Sydney budget than my Melbourne Budget. My budget for a family of 4 is between 120 and 140k per year (for Melbourne) depending on our rent and groceries and car choices once we arrive. I don't know if I'm over budgeting or under budgeting. That is the numbers I came up with after comparing with others on the forum and reading a lot.

[Naomin81]

15 minutes ago, Mel-B said:

Which city are you looking at? Rent is more on my Sydney budget than my Melbourne Budget. My budget for a family of 4 is between 120 and 140k per year (for Melbourne) depending on our rent and groceries and car choices once we arrive. I don't know if I'm over budgeting or under budgeting. That is the numbers I came up with after comparing with others on the forum and reading a lot.

I will make a detailed budget, but in future as we'll only immigrate 2-3 years from now. I think there is a thread about budgeting anyway.

I was just quickly browsing the net. Tbh I think a budget should be made after you get a job. I used $450 rent a week when checking out houses and suburbs and found nice places all over Aus. We're leaning toward Brisbane or Sunshine Coast. I currently have an interested employer in Darwin. I think I'd die in that climate though, but wow it's beautiful there.

Fact is there probably is some form of class separation in Australia, even though most choose to ignore it. My friend Danny (Blackbutt Queensland) stated: "social class does not exist in Australia". There is probably some form of state help for single mothers?

[RedPanda]

My aunt lives in Brissie, and during the two weeks we were there in Jan 2014 my husband got a heat rash, over his whole body. Proof enough for me that even Brisbane is too hot for the two of us.

[Tiermelk]

10 hours ago, AFreshStart said:

Tiermelk,

It depends on the school and position. I can tell you from first hand experience that a deputy principal role at one of the MANY private schools here charging $40K+ a year in tuition is not paid $91k a year... Of course within ALL these fields there are those that will earn more, or less, the same way a GP at a state subsidized bulk billing medical co-op is not going to earn what a specialist at a private hospital is going to earn.

Contrast this to the VAST difference between the lowly bricklayer in South Africa earning R250 a day vs a bricklayer here in Aus earning $27-$30 an hour.

I have a friend who runs his own electrical contracting business and earns a VERY good salary rivaling many other occupations and mates of his running their own building contacting companies earning $250K a year, even the average wage for employed construction managers (working for a building co) is $110K a year, as someone from a family line of master craftsmen and builder in South Africa, well, the playing field is A LOT more balanced and livable.

Cheers

Matt

The same as in SA where a government school teacher will be paid much less than a teacher at a top public school. 

I also know people in SA with electrical contracting businesses that make`s a lot of money than the average GP in SA.

On another note I read a few weeks ago that a brickie can now get upto $2 per brick in Sydney and could lay 500 bricks a day. That`s $1000 per day, comparable with a medium/highly paid salaried professional.  No way a brickie will get that in SA, or probably anywhere else in the world!

[tcmiller]

On 02/12/2015 at 1:17 AM, Tiermelk said:

The same as in SA where a government school teacher will be paid much less than a teacher at a top public school. 

I also know people in SA with electrical contracting businesses that make`s a lot of money than the average GP in SA.

On another note I read a few weeks ago that a brickie can now get upto $2 per brick in Sydney and could lay 500 bricks a day. That`s $1000 per day, comparable with a medium/highly paid salaried professional.  No way a brickie will get that in SA, or probably anywhere else in the world!

 

Does one need some form of formal training to be a brick layer? At $1000 a day how could I say no?

[RYLC]

1 hour ago, tcmiller said:

 

Does one need some form of formal training to be a brick layer? At $1000 a day how could I say no?

 

It's a full apprenticeship just like a plumber.

[Shellfish]

17 hours ago, tcmiller said:

 

Does one need some form of formal training to be a brick layer? At $1000 a day how could I say no?

Bearing in mind that a 'brick laying' machine has already been developed. And they can do it a lot quicker than 1000 per day. 

 

[SurferMan]

If a brickie got a $1000 a day, I would take an income cut just to get outdoors and change jobs.

 

I just spoke to 3 of them, one has gone back to driving trucks (no work), one is going back to Brisbane (no work) and the other is charging what he charged 13 years ago( anf going back to east coast if he does not improve by June). All three are in Perth. Note - east coast is doing fine, WA, not so good.

 

Assuming you get a 12 month contract or close 6 month x2 back to back - In my line of work income can be as low as $250K/annum or up in the high $450-$500K mark. But if you have no contract, then no income and no protection so horses for courses I guess.

 

@Naomin81 Anything we can help with?

 

 

[Mara]

@SurferMan I checked Naomin81 last visited the forum early December 2015, not seen since.

[SurferMan]

Hi Mara,

 

Cheers thanks, that will teach me not to check the date stamp!

 

Appreciate the attention to detail.

 

Cheers