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UNHAPPY IN AUSTRALIA


4Coetzees

Question

:ilikeit:

Lately I saw alot of posts about unhappiness with the move and the hubby and coping with the kids while hubby is working and house cleaning and etc etc etc.

Who wanted to return to SA after a few days or weeks or months and why?

Are there any that returned to SA and might go back to Australia?

Are there any of you that never want to return to Australia?

:)

Edited by Want to go now....
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The incompetent and unqualified appear to move up the ranks and my thoughts are that their bosses do not want anyone to threaten them.

Oh for a second i thought you were talking about Eskom...my apologies :)

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Guys - read my post

1. I have not compared Australia to RSA, the Afrikaans lady did. I agreed with her, Australian managers are the pits. Australian people are great - I have not knocked them. Australia is a great place - I said that - it is just boring as hell. I did not compare it to wanting the rapes and murders of RSA at all.

2. If I were a troll I would have appeared on this forum a long time ago - believe me. It is very cheap and nasty to dismiss someones post like that.

3. France was pretty accurate actually. I love it here. If the French need a wind turbine farm they put one up. They do not agonise over it and say no they will not sign off on it because a blue breasted parrot may hit a blade every 20 years. A Frenchman felt my wife's derriere in a supermarket. She came running up to me laughing about it and I laughed as well. Imagine if it were in Australia and an Australian princess got felt? Also if you want to ride a bike - your choice if you want to wear a helmet or not. Beer? 9% monsieur? Certainly. Australia wants a maximum of 4% - they are taking the choice away from people.

4. I bet someone will say - oooh!!! how can you laugh about your wife's arse being felt. Get over it.

5. Hopefully someone with a number of years Australian experience will back me up.

Have a look at your managers - they are playing management games for the most part.

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. I have not compared Australia to RSA, the Afrikaans lady did. I agreed with her, Australian managers are the pits. Australian people are great - I have not knocked them. Australia is a great place - I said that - it is just boring as hell. I did not compare it to wanting the rapes and murders of RSA at all.

You agreed with her. Surely agreeing with her and her comparison is, basically the same as saying it. For example my son says he loves fanta, I say I agree, therefore I too love fanta?...perhaps my comprehension skills are no longer working being in the land of painting by numbers and all that. I wonder why you continued the conversation in Afrikaans? Your entire post is about comparing Australia to RSA, let's not hide behind semantics here. You are comparing your working experience in Australia to RSA.

2. If I were a troll I would have appeared on this forum a long time ago - believe me. It is very cheap and nasty to dismiss someones post like that.

No offense but you signed up today, and really we have very little proof you have been visiting this forum for any amount of time, but on your say so.

**Oops my mistake yesterday...

3. France was pretty accurate actually. I love it here. If the French need a wind turbine farm they put one up. They do not agonise over it and say no they will not sign off on it because a blue breasted parrot may hit a blade every 20 years. A Frenchman felt my wife's derriere in a supermarket. She came running up to me laughing about it and I laughed as well. Imagine if it were in Australia and an Australian princess got felt? Also if you want to ride a bike - your choice if you want to wear a helmet or not. Beer? 9% monsieur? Certainly. Australia wants a maximum of 4% - they are taking the choice away from people.

I am confused are you in Oz or France. The sentence 'I love it here' after mentioning France leads me to think you are in France, but you are commenting on Aussie way of life on an immigration forum specifcally dealing with Oz and RSA.

4. I bet someone will say - oooh!!! how can you laugh about your wife's arse being felt. Get over it.

I could not care one way or the other...your life buddy live it how you choose.

5. Hopefully someone with a number of years Australian experience will back me up.

Unlikely...

Have a look at your managers - they are playing management games for the most part.

Not sure, don't work out of the home at the moment, but I will reiterate what someone has already said. Australia is a first world country, with a very strong economy. Australia is not perfect but seems to be getting things done. That's why I have water in my taps, electricity, working sewerage and waste removal. My husband uses public transport and somehow never manages to be late due to strikes or because someone stole something or the track broke due to no maintenance.

I really think you need to take this conversation elsewhere, perhaps to like minded individuals. It is unlikely you will find many here.

Candice

Edited by CandiceM
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Apologies oasis but your posts (both of them) are incoherent and you have the ability to be at ends with yourself in the same sentence.

For example you agreed with the lady who said

She was sick to death of the Australians
and in the next post backtrack by saying
Australian people are great - I have not knocked them.

People are generally not stupid and will read what you write.

Michael

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Guys - I read this post and a few very erudite people said things about Australian management regarding lack of innovation etc which I fully agreed with and I also read the arguments and hysteria against their comments. My experience in Aus coincides with the - should we say - anti management brigade. To the extent that I felt I had to register and I had to speak about my experiences. I quite plainly said I have not worked with the bigger consultancies so I do not know their processes on how they get large projects done.

I do not like Australian management. The Afrikaans woman said she found them small in stature and small in mind. I agreed, I think they are small minded, petty and vindictive personally. My experience is that if presented with a problem they would throw money at it in the form of consultants, employ more people to make the problem go away, or pass the problem on to someone else (ie yours truly).

Most my Australian mates (some of whom I play rugby with) would smack my head if I said they were small. My 2 golfing mates would laugh. Another who I go fossicking with would also laugh and say I am probably right. Others I play with in a jam band would also laugh. So I am not bored. Australia is a boring place and eventually you will get tired of the nanny state, political correctness, the agenda's and controversies the press come up with, and the amount of politics forced on us. As also said by some writer "In Australia you have to read the instruction manual before you get out of bed in the morning"

Now you can get upset as you like about what I said, remember these are my experiences and I am quite willing to carry on speaking about them. Be Australian, read my comments about my experiences and laugh about what I say if you want to. Only South Africans would get themselves in a feeding frenzy by calling me a troll and carrying on like pork chops in anger like you guys.

I have taken 3 months long service leave and I have been in France since then - only 1 month to go damm it.

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I do not like Australian management.

I would say the above is too broad and too general and maybe the above should be rephrased to :

I do not like my current management at work

Yeah ...she'll be right!

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OK - I do not like my current management at work. My wife does not like her management at work because they never reply with answers from Sydney head office, my wifes friend was made redundant, went to the tribunal and got recompensed ($27K) because her manager gave her job to his mate, another went back to RSA and came back to being fired (her manager was subsequently fired). I really could go on.

I also do not like my top management - there qualifications are non existent, they make huge mistakes and cover them up. How they get away with it I do not know.

These statements I can quantify. Other engineers have told me horror stories about their experiences but I cannot quantify them, it would be hearsay.

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I guess then Oasis, that you work for a shitty company....perhaps you should think of changing employers?

I have been in Aus a long time, have worked for the same company for ten years, in management. Have gone through three company changes, and I still think that they are great...we are innovative, work in a highly competitive field, get things done, change our systems, make mistakes, correct them, and just plainly, get on with the job!

Before that though, I worked for three different companies, none of which I would ever again, give the time of day to!

So...I definitely think you just have to choose your employer, do not stay with one you dislike, it could make you bitter and twisted!

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Not to worry Oasis we only really get into freeding frenzy's regarding topics like whether Saffers can be considered refugees, and when an Expat writes a letter on news24 telling SA that it's no better here then in SA, oh and about 2 years ago when someone suggested saffer women can't last in Aus because they are spoilt and don't like to clean or something along those lines :)

If you have been here lurking for as long as you say you have, you would realise that this forum is a little community almost like a cyber family. We have...at least in my time here, held many hands as they have made the decsion to move here, offered support to members living in Oz whose family members were brutally murdered in RSA, raise money to help people in desperate times, rejoiced in visa approvals, given advice to people depressed over the move, celebrated births and made life long friends. So please understand that we generally don't take it kindly when you decide to come and S$%T in our yard, and expect us to be grateful for your opinion when a) we don't KNOW you, although you may feel you know us and :D decide your first post to some extent is going to be somewhat imflammatory, judging on our response to the last 'troll'.

I am sorry that you and your wife have shitty employers, that sucks for you. Believe me when I say we have had our fair share of shitty jobs, and wacked power hungry management screwing us over. I like to think they are more the exception then the rule. My suggestion to you is now that you finally have taken your long service leave PLEASE find another job, where you will be somewhat happier and a whole less frustrated.

Oh and calling us pork chops...not very nice...but I get it a little tit for tat...ok. If you would like to contribute to our forum please by all means join us. Post in the foyer, let us know who you are, contribute with helpful advice ie good suburbs, questions on medicare etc. no doubt in your 10 years here you must have ample experience. But don't get upset when we don't take your observations seriously and respond like we do to any other troll.

You may find Oz boring, that's fine for you. Thank goodness we are all unique right? I love living here and don't miss the thrill of flying bullets, late night alarms, no power for days and dodging potholes. Please don't try and convert us to your thinking, many of us simply don't care for it.

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I guess then Oasis, that you work for a shitty company....perhaps you should think of changing employers?

I have been in Aus a long time, have worked for the same company for ten years, in management. Have gone through three company changes, and I still think that they are great...we are innovative, work in a highly competitive field, get things done, change our systems, make mistakes, correct them, and just plainly, get on with the job!

Before that though, I worked for three different companies, none of which I would ever again, give the time of day to!

So...I definitely think you just have to choose your employer, do not stay with one you dislike, it could make you bitter and twisted!

I am too busy in my private life to be bitter and twisted - I get things done at work and I have a very free rein actually, its very interesting. Just the management is the pits. Over 55 and no other Aus firm is interested in hiring you so I am stuck until the gold mine comes in.

So your 1 out of 4 companies sounds like you didn't like the management at the other 3 as well? Plus my 1 out of 2 (not really because the 1st was taken over by the 2nd) so say 1 out of 1. And the 3 I have mentioned - out of how many? Lets say 1 out of 5 companies have good management.

What is the management mix at your present company? You must be pretty good I think - do you have a say and are left alone like me?

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Oasis

Did you like every company and its management that you worked for in RSA?

My hubby is in mining. He reckons there are less back stabbers and bullshitters here. Usually, if someone has a problem with you here, they tell you, they don't go whispering in the bosses ear.

Things are done differently, but who says there is only one way to do something?

My own opinion is that in RSA ( mining) there are lots of people fighting for few jobs, everyone wants to be a ' manager', and some people really don't care who they have to trample over, or suck up to in order to get there.

Have a look at your managers - they are playing management games for the most part.

Show me any capitalist society where that isn't the case.

I have to agree with other members of the forum in that your posts are incoherent.

You originally said

It can be summed up in what a beautiful Afrikaans lady told me at a company seminar involving maybe 50 people: She was sick to death of the Australians - they are small in stature and small in mind

and later you said

I do not like Australian management. The Afrikaans woman said she found them small in stature and small in mind. I agreed, I think they are small minded, petty and vindictive personally.

They are two completely different statements, so what actually was said?

Personally, I think you may be playing a little game here, perhaps to allay the boredom you find in Australia ? :thumbdown:

Edited by AndreaL
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It can be summed up in what a beautiful Afrikaans lady told me at a company seminar involving maybe 50 people: She was sick to death of the Australians - they are small in stature and small in mind. She longed to be back in RSA with proper men. We started speaking in Afrikaans after her saying that.

Ai tog, if all else fail, blame it on the Afrikaans lady! Not very wise to quote a person stupid enough to keep on living in a country she clearly does not like and then she blames her relationship dysfunction on Aus for good measure. We have travelled to and lived in enough countries to have encountered peoples astonishment that my Afrikaans husband cooks, cleans, irons, etc, does not drag his knuckles on the ground when he walks and does not rule his house with a iron fist. Sadly I have seen more of those examples in RSA than in Aus. She can keep her proper men any day.

ps. do you really think you can write a sensible/sober post at 2:56am?

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Oasis, yes I have a say, I am the Financial Manager, the other management members, are a lot younger than what I am at 62.

Not sure where you are based, but I have not found or heard of anyone of our friends that have been discriminated against in Victoria, because of their age. My husband was head hunted at the age of 61!

I probably worked for 15 different companies whilst I lived in South Africa, I can honestly say, that apart from the last one which we owned, the only other employer I would ever have worked for again is SA Breweries, so that plays havoc with the stats!

In Australia, the first three companies that I worked for I disliked, the first one was owned by a gentleman, ex South African, that although he treated me fairly, he treated his workshop staff like crap, just because they were all migrants with little English. I stayed three months and told him that I could not work for such a dishonest person.

The second was an Aussie, who employed me, without telling either his wife or myself, that I was replacing her in her job, imagine the good time there! I left after 15 months, when she started altering the accounting files, after hours. Fortunately for me, I quickly noticed it and that is when I told the boss he could have his job and his wife!

The third was an Italian, again, he treated me quite fine, but when it came to the warehouse staff, well that was so unfair that I decided to leave after a year, and then reported him. The company folded six months later.

I have been with my present company for 11 years, and love it here.

You get good and bad wherever you go, and my personal opinion of the situation is this.

In RSA mostly in the old days you worked for a large company, small companies were few and far between. You started with this huge company and you had to show what you were worth, put your head down and do your best, because at the end of the day it was your bread and butter.

In Australia, the majority of the companies, percentage wise, are owner run, I am told it is as much as 75%. Now how is that for Aussie entrepeneurs? Although they may have the know how of the job in hand, they do not always have management experience and that makes it difficult, both for them and their employees. So if you land up with one of these, then you may have problems. I have no knowledge of what the big Australian owned companies are like in Australia, having never worked for one of them. My present employer is a worldwide company, owned and based in Holland and I work for the Australian Branch, but we are only eleven employees in total.

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Eish .. correct me if im wrong , im not even there yet , and I cant possibly see that much can go wrong with the right attitude . If you dont like the job , find another one , if u dont like the area u live in find a different area.

Work hard, be friendly, be helpful. Learn to fit in. :thumbdown:

Mara im glad u say age isnt a problem , ill be job hunting and im 49 also in the accounting field :rolleyes:

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11 months in and have not found Aus boring .... an I'm GLAD that nothing happens!!! rather nothing then murder and mayhem ....

I agree with you :thumbdown:

Glad the job has worked out OK

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Thanks for that Mara. As I said I have been reading this forum for years (maybe the admin can give the time I started?) - early 2000 sometime. I was going through an unsettled frame of mind and I wanted to see how other South Africans were coping with the dislocation. I started playing golden oldies rugby (probably underwater hockey by the time I get back), running with Hash and getting out and getting fit and doing things. My wife and I have made a huge amount of friends.

The support generated by this forum is fantastic. However I started reading some peoples opinions on Australian management and then I started reading replies from the thought police (naughty naughty ... how can you say anything bad about wonderful Aus.... smack smack...you troll) so I waded in. I really feel strongly about the subject. Caused some controversy but so be it.

What I am trying to get across is maybe that people must be prepared for disappointments when they come here. That they must really work hard and make themselves indispensable to survive the Australian corporate life. I had to do this and found I enjoy myself because I am left alone. I say xyz project is going to cost so many dollars and this is what I am proposing, I let management have a say, make sure I incorporate their suggestions and I gets the money and I does the job. I like the management as people but I think their management is the pits, right up the ladder to head office. They are really not concerned about the bottom line and this company will close down. So many come and go and I say why employ them - get answers like "its the experience they bring". What?? 3 years in each job before they are found out and they move on elsewhere. And they cause chaos whilst here.

My wife says I can leave anytime. Maybe I will. Get a UK passport and live here 6 months and in Aus 6 months? I do like Aus but it does not stop me from thinking it is as boring as hell.

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Oasis, as has been said earlier in this thread, it is not because you voiced your opinion on Australia that caused the problem, it is because it was your FIRST POST on the forum. We have had a number of folk that were only here to cause trouble, that waded in on their first post....so if you had been around, except for reading, then we would perhaps not have jumped on you so quickly. Perhaps you should go to the foyer and introduce yourself...then the folks here can get to know you.

And by the way, it is not since 2000, we have not been going that long.

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Wow I realy enjoyed reading this topic for a couple of reasons all I can add is that the friend of ours living in Bunbury said this and this topic confermed wat he said. He said that he will never come back not even for a holiday but that he could not say that I will feel the same , he adapted We might not , he is happy we might not be , he enjoys it we might not ,he does not regret his choices we might and that one can not compare your experience of immegrating to some one else's even if your situation is very much the same. This being his reason immegrating is a very personal experience and all he could advize me is come visit and deside for yourself. Again this topic confermed that to me. Then again this forum has already helped me alot in my choice and I believe we will stick to it no matter what we see during our visit. We will certainly apply.

We have to on behalve of our children's future

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WOW WOW WOW!!!

Absolutely amazing to hear all these stories and that none will return out of choice.

Can't wait for it to be me...

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I worked for several different employers in SA : Both one man shows and Corporate. My mom once told me: "...People are the same where ever you go..." I've had excellent managers and dreadful ones. I'm pretty sure it will be the same case in any other country. You just have to find the employer / company where you fit in. Easier said than done, but you can never generalise just because your own work experience was bad. You'll always have the incompetent one, the miss goody 2 shoes, the go-getter, the back stabber, the quiet, serious one, the gossiper, etc. We just hope and pray when we land in Oz to find the 'better' type of Employer sooner than later, 'cause it is always stressful to start a new job. I can imagine how depressing it can be if you are trying to adapt in the new country and at the same time are unhappy in your work. Thank you to all forumites who share their experiences to prepare us.

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I worked for several different employers in SA : Both one man shows and Corporate. My mom once told me: "...People are the same where ever you go..." I've had excellent managers and dreadful ones. I'm pretty sure it will be the same case in any other country. You just have to find the employer / company where you fit in. Easier said than done, but you can never generalise just because your own work experience was bad. You'll always have the incompetent one, the miss goody 2 shoes, the go-getter, the back stabber, the quiet, serious one, the gossiper, etc. We just hope and pray when we land in Oz to find the 'better' type of Employer sooner than later, 'cause it is always stressful to start a new job. I can imagine how depressing it can be if you are trying to adapt in the new country and at the same time are unhappy in your work. Thank you to all forumites who share their experiences to prepare us.

Excellent post Kanniewagnie !!!

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I worked for several different employers in SA : Both one man shows and Corporate. My mom once told me: "...People are the same where ever you go..." I've had excellent managers and dreadful ones. I'm pretty sure it will be the same case in any other country. You just have to find the employer / company where you fit in. Easier said than done, but you can never generalise just because your own work experience was bad. You'll always have the incompetent one, the miss goody 2 shoes, the go-getter, the back stabber, the quiet, serious one, the gossiper, etc. We just hope and pray when we land in Oz to find the 'better' type of Employer sooner than later, 'cause it is always stressful to start a new job. I can imagine how depressing it can be if you are trying to adapt in the new country and at the same time are unhappy in your work. Thank you to all forumites who share their experiences to prepare us.

Baie waar :ilikeit: :ilikeit: :ilikeit: :ilikeit:

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I Absolutely echo this, I had 21 jobs! in the last one I was happy however I made the sacrifice for my children and a better quality of life. I had all sorts and I hung in there. I whinged, my friends can tell you but I hung in there.

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A lot of what has been said on this topic is relevant, but just be aware that this topic is over two years old.

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