Warning

[Dax]

Let's get back on topic here please. We don't want this thread go to the Tread Heaven as well...

Dax

[Ajay]

I'll (try to) steer the way back

Elsewhere in this rather long thread, Bob made the point that he's lived through recessions in Australia in the past, so he has been there and done that - even if he weren't entitled to an opinion (as if!!), his experience would count for something. However, what I picked up on was that even in recession times, he asks something along the lines of what would happen if unemployment were to hit 10%? Now, in SA, that would be a dream come true I think the generelly reported stat there is around 25-30%!

For anyone that has been living in Australia for a couple of years, it is clear that there is a slow down and that inflation is picking up. I see it too. However, unlike Bob, I think that anyone that is able to get a 457 to come here should grab it with both hands and head for the first available aeroplane. WORST CASE is that you will need to wait 2 years before you can get sponsored PR - I don't see any chance of the economy completely collpasing in the next two years? Be cautious and make sure that you get your employer to make it a condition of your contract that they will support your sponsored PR application after XX years of service. Not all companies are prepared to do this, so make sure that you know their intention up front. If they aren't, then once you get here, find an employer that will - when you are here and have some Australian experience, it's much easier to do (I should know ). If you qualify for sponsored PR sooner (i.e you have a skill that can be positively assessed - basically you hold a degree relevant to your occupation and have at least 3 years post graduate experience, or if you are being employed in an executive management role with a base salary of $165K or more), then make sure your employer will sponsor you asap. Just a word of warning - an employer being willing to sponsor DOES NOT mean that they have to pay for the visa or any migration agent charges. They are under no obligation to pay anything. Currently, a sponsored PR visa (we refer to them as ENS) costs about $2500, excluding medicals (about $240 per person). If you use an agent, the fees are on top - probably around another $4 - $5K.

Cheers everyone

Ajay

[da_feemail]

I've only read the first couple of pages, until I came to Preacher's posts.

People, please! Take note because the people on the forum falls for this every time when some one starts to heat up a topic.

All I actually want to say is:

NEVER ARGUE WITH A FOOL, PEOPLE MIGHT NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE

So in saying that, stop giving fuel to argument.

Bob just try to help in ways, some people might not understand as they are blinded by their situation they are currently in. Not here yet, or something else.

I read his post and I could understand it, because I read it with an open mind.

Just my 2c

[Riekie]

hmmmm....we take things too seriously sometimes.

A woman was very distraught at the fact that she had not had a date or any sex in quite some time. ?

You may mean well, but please stick to the topic.

No personal agenda deary....Highjacking mmmm...what exactly are you doing then ????

Once again, please stick to the topic! You're not helping your case here. This is not about you or about me, it is about the Australian economy.

Still too serious....

Gatiep vertel vir die dominee...

Let's keep the jokes for the funnies and get back to the topic. This is a very interesting & valid topic, let's not ruin it.

do you think that there is any chance of reviving the origanl topic .... or do you think it's dead

I think this topic just needs a bit of a clean-up to revive it, so I'll remove all the odd bits in between to get it back on track....

OK, it's all cleaned up now! (That's the best I could do without the "storyline" getting all messed up and not making sense).

Debate is good as long as we stick to the topic and argue the point - not kill the man!

Enjoy!!

[BrianJ]

To follow on from Bob's valid advise,

Take this scenario,

Employment is offerred, a 457 Visa is granted, and the family arrive in Perth.

The company is under serious strain ten - twelve weeks after the initial job was offerred, due to the gas shortage crisis

(W.A.) directly affecting the business.

The company cannot maintain the position offerred, and you are asked to leave - valid reason - there you go.

28 days to find another job, or leave Australia - thats what you've got to do.

The stress involved at this point is unbelievable - panic sets in, as the container with the household goods is midway between South Africa and Perth.

This is not where it ends however,

A new 457 Visa must then be applied for,

(once a new job is found, and the company has the required sponsorship documentation in place),

paid for,

(drain on scarce funds),

and then you have to wait until the visa is granted until you can commence working

(companies will generally not employ you if you don't have a visa - they face massive fines for employing illegal aliens)

8 weeks for a new 457 Visa is average,

This waiting period places additional strain on limited funds, and the uncertainty of the whole thing gnaws at you day and night.

The new company employing you realises your predicament, and offers you the lowest possible salary, knowing that you will accept anything - its only a few months later, after things have returned to a sense of normality, that you realise that you've been conned,

what to then,

start another visa application,

or sit it out?

This scenario can become a reality in a declining job market, in a situation where unforseen circumstances affect the company employing you, and for various other reasons.

A 457 Visa is risky - sure it gets you in quick, but it does not offer much security.

P.R. is by far the better option.

Point well taken Bob, thanks mate!

[AndreaL]

Brian J

The scenario you painted can and does happen, we found ourselves in a similar situation and it was only through the assistance of Perth immigration that we were granted a bridging visa and my husband was allowed to commence employment during processing of the visa.

I think we all agree that Bob's advice is spot on, however to reiterate both my and Ajay's points, should a 457 be offered, it may well be wise to take as a foot in the door.

There is nothing to stop you applying for 175 at the same time or having an agreement with the sponsor for ENS, which could in fact be approved well before a 175.

Migration in all forms is a risk, there are so many variables and without a crystal ball I would say make the choices that best suit you and your family.

We recently turned down employer sponsored p.r and have just secured a new 457, we are not mad, merely measured our options and chose the security of a large International company as opposed to a family run business already experiencing market pressures.

If that bites us on the bum, we only have ourselves to blame.

As a point to consider, if South Africans start turning down 457's en masse, sponsors will look elsewhere, the Philippines, India, Germany and the U.K. to name a few, remember you are competing in a world job market, scarcity of certain skills is the driving factor.

Andrea L

[BrianJ]

AndreaL,

I agree with you entirely,

The 457 Visa, is, in many cases the only way of entering Australia for many people, and it must be seized if and when an opportunity arises.

The fact that Australian work experience (obtained on a 457 visa) counts towards obtaining PR is another advantage for those that are initially short on points.

I submit that most people that enter Australia on a 457 Visa will succeed, but what concerns me is that reading through the forum, many people arrive with limited funds, and should a hiccup occur with their jobs, potential hardship can result.

With a PR visa, one can move from one job to the next in a day, even changing the industry that you have previously been in without qualm.

What is the scouts motto.... Be Prepared ....... thats all.

My summation from Bob's post was that in uncertain times that the world ecomony faces and Australia in particular, it is more advantageous to the security of PR (with the government allowing you permanent residence) than be at the mercy of an employer.

Regards,

[Ajay]

A new 457 Visa must then be applied for,

(once a new job is found, and the company has the required sponsorship documentation in place),

paid for,

(drain on scarce funds)

Just a point - it is ILLEGAL for any company to require you to pay for a 457 visa. They are 100% liable for these costs.

Also, as soon as you lodge a new visa application, you will be issued with a Bridging visa, which will allow to stay in Australia until a decision is made regarding your new application. it will have the same work limitations as your previous visa.

Cheers

Ajay

[BrianJ]

Ajay,

I had to pay for the re-submission for my 457 Visa - the employer paid for the sponsorship part of the visa.

The bridging visa was not automatic, it had to be applied for seperately, and there was cost involved

A bridging visa was issued, but this took about two weeks

A period of approx 4 weeks elapsed before I could work from the time I left employment to starting at the new company - (Living costs are not cheap)

The briging visa does not automatically mean that you will obtain a 457 Visa - it is valid until a decision is made regarding

the 457 Visa

That has been my experience

Total cost through an agent A$ 4500-00 - was I fleeced - you bet ya.

[Ajay]

Ajay,

I had to pay for the re-submission for my 457 Visa - the employer paid for the sponsorship part of the visa.

The bridging visa was not automatic, it had to be applied for seperately, and there was cost involved

A bridging visa was issued, but this took about two weeks

A period of approx 4 weeks elapsed before I could work from the time I left employment to starting at the new company - (Living costs are not cheap)

The briging visa does not automatically mean that you will obtain a 457 Visa - it is valid until a decision is made regarding

the 457 Visa

That has been my experience

Total cost through an agent A$ 4500-00 - was I fleeced - you bet ya.

Brian - I work in migration......your company cannot make you pay for your own visa - it's illegal. If they have done so, they have breached the sponsorship obligations.

You are right that the bridging visa doesn't automatically mean that you will get the new 457 - it simply allows to remain here legally while they process the other application. As I said, the same restrictions with regards to work would still apply.

Not sure if you want to take this up with your employer......your call!

Cheers

Ajay

[AndreaL]

Hi again Brian J

We once paid the ( then) $190 for the visa too, it could have been the big "sucker" sign on our backs or just ignorance on the employers part.

Migration laws are amended constantly and when we lodged our current 457 in June a bridging visa was automatically granted.

See here for information Bridging visa's

You can then apply for permission to work- form 1005

and if you can prove that:

You are in financial hardship

or

You have been nominated by an employer for a substantive visa on skills grounds and appear to meet the requirements for the visa

you are then able to commence working for the new employer whilst your 457 is being processed.

I know there are good migration agents, but if I paid $4500 I would expect the agent to know this.

At least our sharing experiences may help another person in that circumstance.

Andrea L

[Springbok]

With an inevitable rise in unemployment among the Australia workforce, many Aussies will be wondering what migrants are doing at jobs that they could be doing. They are voters. The government listens to voters . . . . not to temporary workers in Australia.

O.K. . . . . . I've stated what some pundits are now saying in the news, here in Australia, so be smart and apply for a permanent visa, unless you only want to be here in Australia temporarily.

And here we are, not even 3 months since Bob's warning:

Call for a 25% cut in migration

Amid growing concern that Australia's unemployment rate is set to increase, Opposition immigration spokeswoman Sharman Stone said plans for a record 190,300 migrants in 2008-09 should immediately be scaled back to the 2005-06 level of 142,930.

Immigration Minister Chris Evans has already hinted that the planned migration intake for next financial year is likely to be lower as a result of the global financial crisis. He has also said that the expected intake this financial year would be reviewed after the Federal Treasury's budget update next month, which will contain new unemployment predictions

[LeeInOz]

I tell you what. Why dont you all kiss my arse? This little clique is half the reason why so many members wanted to up and leave in the first place.

Bob is outright telling people that this place is headed for a recession. God forbid someone takes that nonsense seriously, stays in South Africa, and ends up getting killed for their cellphones. Aus is no were near a recession. 5 years of negative growth wont impact on unemployment that is how much this place has grown. Its armchair economics at its best and to use it on an immigration website is nothing short of irresponsible.

People have no idea what to expect. Telling them to expect severe job losses and massive economic slowdown when its not even something anyone should be worried about is just not on. Even more so from a respected member.

Reading your posts actually make a sane peron sick. Now hte interest rates are dropping do you believe there is a slowing of the economy?

A guy I know here on a 457 visa works at an engineering company. It was taken over by an American investment company a while back. Now they are struggling a bit. Why, becuase contracts they will get are being delayed until some things stabilize. So about 100 staff might suffer job loss.

Bob did not mention recession.

You talk glibbly about leaving South Africa, but it is not like going to a braai, if you dont like it you just leave.

Make your point without all the defamatory stuff would be good

[Dax]

So, Bob has been vindicated! I love it - good on ya Bob!

And thanks for the info springbok!

Dax

[Karen-in-Brisbane]

I would like to add my 3c worth too.....

What Bob says makes good sense. I think people should think very carefully and if they can get PR they should go that route as it will offer more security in the current economic climate. I personally decided some time ago that I will only move to Oz with PR. I am conservatiove and over 45y so my options for PR are less than the younger gruop. Fortunately my occupation is listed on the MODL and at the moment there are several jobs available. Finding employers willing to offer PR is much more difficult though as many are simply not interested and prefer the 457 as it is faster and not permanent..........

People need to know what Bob has said and to think wisely.............

Thanks Bob.

K

[Swerwer]

A weaker Aussie dollar means our products get cheaper for the rest of the world...and that means more exports...more manufacturing...more production needed....meaning more SKILLED hands on deck!

If you are in ANY way serious about moving to Aus, make sure you have a plan to get PR.

Edited October 26, 2008 by Swerwer

[Swerwer]

Seems like a lot of us simply hit a sweet spot in the Rand/AuDollar. a good housing market, a fast growing economy with a surplus and one of the largest intakes of immigrants in a while...when we immigrated in 2007. When I was moving I felt an urgency since it seemed things were already collapsing around us in SA...little did we know the worst was still to come.

But if you have to choose between physical survival and struggling financially what do you choose? I would still rather get off a sinking boat even if I lost all I own - at least I have saved my family's life.

Edited October 26, 2008 by Swerwer

[Preacher]

I tell you what. Why dont you all kiss my arse? This little clique is half the reason why so many members wanted to up and leave in the first place. I came back to an inbox bombarded with messages to join a new forum they were trying to start. Why is that?

Bob is outright telling people that this place is headed for a recession. God forbid someone takes that nonsense seriously, stays in South Africa, and ends up getting killed for their cellphones. Aus is no were near a recession. 5 years of negative growth wont impact on unemployment that is how much this place has grown. Its armchair economics at its best and to use it on an immigration website is nothing short of irresponsible.

Respected and good natured he may be, but considering South Africas economic climate and crime rates, posting that nonsense is hardly something anyone should find acceptable. Its based on the whimsical outlooks of someone who clearly has no understanding of the broader aspect. Just because you are a born aussie does not automatically quantify you as a an expert in economics. Hell, half the people in SA think SA's economy is booming and life there is cheap. You think the average Aussie understands why they increased their interest rates? You think the average aussie understands why the government wants immigrants? While I think his intentions may be good, his delivery is poor. Respected member or not, people need to be called on their .

People have no idea what to expect. Telling them to expect severe job losses and massive economic slowdown when its not even something anyone should be worried about is just not on. Even more so from a respected member.

Juilian, I have gone through this process twice. Done well both times. Thanks for your concern though. Clearly you have confused being a gullible doormat with being a decent bloke but dont expect everyone else to.

Hello long lost forumites! I have returned. I have come here to gloat. Do nothing but gloat. Rejoice, the outspoken foul mouthed, atheist, wanker has returned!

This thread was started over a year ago now. Since then, Australia's unemployment rate has only trickled up by a whopping 1.5% to 2% in most states, house prices have been quite stable and growing in some segments, interest rates are lekker low, inflation is under control and we have NOT SEEN NEGATIVE GROWTH OVER AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME. Only first world county not to enter a recession and all the fears were pretty much for naught. Frikken hell, the $60 billion Gorgon project is a go, Woodside is laying more pipe than a pornstar. International recession? What recession?

That being said, I read about a few unfortunate souls who lost visa's through retrenchment when they came over. Im wiling to bet though it was probably still a much lower number than the rate hi jackings went up in Joburg. Certainly not the thousands that were headed back home the next day, thats for sure

Chin up to those South Africans still in South Africa wanting to come to this beautiful country. Other then the people, (and the biltong) there is little to miss. Get your arses over here, life is lekker. There is an element of risk in anything, sure, BUT THE JUICE IS WORTH THE SQUEEZE.

Edited September 7, 2009 by Preacher

[miran]

Obviously you have been away for a while..... whatever happened or didn't happen in Oz really made an impact on immigration!

457 sponsorships are almost non-existing and most forumites had to change 175 to 176 just to stand a chance of getting into Australia (sooner than later)

So gloat all you want, but please don't stirr, we're really not in the mood.

[Garrick]

Preach, you need to update your profile you git.

We all know that the number of visas being granted shrunk by a few thousand. 475's supposedly became far harder to get and those 175's not on the CSL got frozen at one point. The job market (in IT) doesn't look that bad to be honest, and the country is by far more appealing than JHB.

Looking forward to getting a job and moving over sometime.

-G

(aka Brannor)

[IamInACT]

Wayne Swan: economic growth due to stimulus

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23...e=eDM_newspulse

I was also reading that there are still many 457's out there availible for take up

[Preacher]

Confidence among the nation's businesses is at its highest level in six years in another sign the Australian economy has weathered the global financial crisis.

The NAB's monthly survey for August, released this morning, found business conditions were now at their highest level since the middle of last year on the back of deep cuts in interest rates, the Government's stimulus package and better news from overseas.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newsh...-six-year-high/