Warning

[Enrica]

Ag ja I get really pissed off with these okes sometimes biltong. Trying to convince people who fear for their safety to stay in a place they dont want to by posting . He is playing games with peoples lives. Why would you do such a thing?

Bottom line, Aus may slow down with the world slowing down. But to tell people they will be sent home and that things are on the verge of a standstill? What a tosser. Its one thing to try and give a balanced perspective. Its another thing altogether trying to influence people through outright lies and deception.

Either its a SOuth African trying to convince himself that staying there is the way to go because he does not have the balls to leave OR he is a South African this side who cant see whats happening here. My God.

Ag Nee Preacher,

There you go again, insulting people, you know actually Bob is entitled to his opion just as you are yours, but please please stop with the aggressive insulting Saffer attitude.....play nicely.

I think you are miss reading bob's post, he is not trying to convince you that you should not come to Oz, he is saying that you best apply for your PR pronto pronto. Some of us happen to agree with him..........

[Dreams]

Sorry Preacher, but I do NOT like the way you attack Bob. If you disagree, state your facts without insulting anyone. Please Chill!!!

[Iron-gut]

Preacher may be a little heavy handed but Bob's post is "scare mongerish". Ive just come off a 457 but have many friends on their way here on a 457, the economy is not going to slow down to the extent where 457 visa holders will be asked to return to their country of origin.

[Frenchy]

I Think Bob is just realistic and trying to highlight the fact that a PR visa is better than a 457. Don't attack the man.......he has been a very valued member of this forum for a loooooooong time. I think that some people in some industries might be affected by job losses. There has been a few instances of people coming over on a 457, then the sponsoring company went bust and the "Saffer" sits high and dry and needs to leave the country in 28 days. I'm NOT saying those with 457 should live in fear.........just don't get too comfortable. If Australia is in for some hard times, then thers always a chance that a sponsor might not be able to fulfil his promises to the 457 holder.

[Preacher]

Frenchy, its not an option for some people off the bat. Just because its not should not put you off either, which is exactly what Bob is suggesting here

Look at the nature of his post and tell me with a straight face that his attitude is not one of negativity. Having been through the process of immigration I know what a nerve racking experience it is. Hell, some of you know where I am coming from. The simple fact that he would go so far as to suggest that people can expect to run into problems because Australia is facing an economic slowdown is nothing short of outright bullshit.

Saying it to people in a country outside south africa is one thing. Saying it to people who leave because they fear for their safety is another thing altogether. There is enough misinformation going around as it is. If Bob feels that the economy is headed for an extreme slowdown he is very misinformed. If he is misinformed to that degree, perhaps its better that he provides no advice at all with regards to economics.

What exactly was Bob trying to achieve with that post? WHAT?

If he is a respected member of this community then he needs to show a little more discretion in the way he posts I am afraid. His sort of post does no one any good. Its one thing to provide a balanced perspective. Its another thing posting negative rubbish because you read this month Money magazine and your new hobby is unit trust picking or whatever the hell took his fancy.

Enrica, Im sure Bob as a grown man can defend himself. Even an idiot is entitled his opinion, It does not mean that we have to respect it sweetheart.

Edited August 2, 2008 by Preacher

[Eva]

Either its a SOuth African trying to convince himself that staying there is the way to go because he does not have the balls to leave OR he is a South African this side who cant see whats happening here. My God.

Isn't Bob an actual Aussie, born & bred? Thought so from what he's posted....

[Ready2go]

Please, please, pleeeeeease do not use the words Idiot and Bob in the same sentence.

Bob is a very well informed gentleman on all things Australian and alot of us on this forum appreciate his advice. Thats all it is - advice. Use it or lose it.

IMHO he was merely pointing out that people should apply for PR promptly. I didnt see him tell people not to go to AUS. On the contrary if it was up to Bob, he would let us all in tomorrow !!!!!

We know of a few families that went over to AUS and NZ on temp visas and did not make the grade for PR and after "settling in" were sent back to SA. So folks it does happen.

[JanCPT]

What an absolute pile of steaming garbage. Where the bloody hell do you get your information from? WHere the bloody hell do you get off spreading nonsense like this? What do you gain from convincing people not to come here? Sorry mods for the aggression, but this is out of line. Way out of line.

Hey Preacher

Did you even read Bob's post?

Cause you missed the boat completely!!

Cheers

jan

[Corne and Jacqui]

Everyone has a right to an opinion. If you disagree, make your point regarding the topic of conversation, and leave the person alone.

[JimmyC]

Jeepers preacher....

Bob has been with the forum for ages and he's given us Saffers some good info and insight over the year(s). In fact, he usually encourages us to make the move to Oz. He is one of the most respected members and I don't feel he needs to be treaeted in such a nasty way. Sure, we might not all agree with him but what he says does seem to make some sense. We need to be carefull on our visa decision - as it was stated before: If you don't have any choice other than the 457 then go that route. If you can go PR from the start maybe it will be best to have some patience.

JimmyC

[Ajay]

Preacher - settle down. You know our feelings about playing the ball and not the man. Attacks of a personal nature won't be tolerated. You are welcome to disagree with his opinion (as I do) without deriding him.

Ajay

[Julian (Jules)]

What an absolute pile of steaming garbage. Where the bloody hell do you get your information from? WHere the bloody hell do you get off spreading nonsense like this? What do you gain from convincing people not to come here? Sorry mods for the aggression, but this is out of line. Way out of line.

It's ironic that you say the other person is out of line. Way out of line...?

A word of advice - if you are short-tempered then don't emigrate because it's going to test you in ways you never thought possible. And you will give SAns a bad name.

[Enrica]

Enrica, Im sure Bob as a grown man can defend himself. Even an idiot is entitled his opinion, It does not mean that we have to respect it sweetheart.

Yes , I agree that even an idiot is entitled to his opinion, but there is no need to insult a person,especially not Bob

Oh, just so by the way mate , I am not your sweet heart

Edited August 3, 2008 by Enrica

[Guest Bronwyn]

Preacher, I might not agree with ALL of Bob's sentiments, but he is the only true Australian on this forum. I have met him on several occasions, and he even phoned us when we were living in Pretoria to have a chat about South Australia and give us some pointers. He phoned from Australia! He is a gentleman, and while I'm sure he can more than adequately defend his viewpoint, he may not bother. After all, why would someone with his knowledge of Australia, and his generous nature towards South Africans, stand for this kind of insult? Bob is extremely pro-immigration. In fact, I once asked him if he was working on commission for the Aussie government, but he does it all for free.

I agree that people should research their opinions carefully and try and be balanced, but you missed Bob's point entirely.

Your post was really insulting Preacher, you should be ashamed. If you don't like the message, why attack the messenger?

[Preacher]

I tell you what. Why dont you all kiss my arse? This little clique is half the reason why so many members wanted to up and leave in the first place. I came back to an inbox bombarded with messages to join a new forum they were trying to start. Why is that?

Bob is outright telling people that this place is headed for a recession. God forbid someone takes that nonsense seriously, stays in South Africa, and ends up getting killed for their cellphones. Aus is no were near a recession. 5 years of negative growth wont impact on unemployment that is how much this place has grown. Its armchair economics at its best and to use it on an immigration website is nothing short of irresponsible.

Respected and good natured he may be, but considering South Africas economic climate and crime rates, posting that nonsense is hardly something anyone should find acceptable. Its based on the whimsical outlooks of someone who clearly has no understanding of the broader aspect. Just because you are a born aussie does not automatically quantify you as a an expert in economics. Hell, half the people in SA think SA's economy is booming and life there is cheap. You think the average Aussie understands why they increased their interest rates? You think the average aussie understands why the government wants immigrants? While I think his intentions may be good, his delivery is poor. Respected member or not, people need to be called on their .

People have no idea what to expect. Telling them to expect severe job losses and massive economic slowdown when its not even something anyone should be worried about is just not on. Even more so from a respected member.

Juilian, I have gone through this process twice. Done well both times. Thanks for your concern though. Clearly you have confused being a gullible doormat with being a decent bloke but dont expect everyone else to.

[Julian (Jules)]

Juilian, I have gone through this process twice. Done well both times. Thanks for your concern though. Clearly you have confused being a gullible doormat with being a decent bloke but dont expect everyone else to.

You know what? I have a sneaky suspicion I'm not alone on this one. But you probably are. I will leave it at that.

And for the record - if you are an example of , "being a decent bloke," as you phrased it, then I sure hope I never turn out decent when I grow up.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Julian (Jules)

[sa2auz]

Preacher if you have a inbox full of invites to join TOF please feel free to leave us and join them. Perhaps the other forum will accept your foul language and personal attacks - we don't.

ciao

[Ajay]

While I don't agree with Bob's advice that people should be hesitant to come here on anything other than a permanent residence visa, I also put a little more failth in his ability to read and understand the Australian economy than I do in someone that has been here for a mere 4 months. I've been here 3 years and I agree with Bob that the economy is slowing down - I've seen it since my arrival. I don't share his ideas that Australian employers are going to boot out all temporary visa holders though - certainly not for a long, long time to come, if ever. Also, there is no 2 year period attached to a 457 - if you qualify for PR under any means you can apply whenever you want, regardless of your 457 visa. Some people can ONLY qualify for PR after working for 2 years is all. Bottom line? If you can get a visa - any visa - grab it. Sorry Bob - just donj't share your views on this one.

Preacher - if by 'this little clique' you mean those that don't share your views then I suggest you get a tougher skin and realise that we are all entitled to an opinion and just because someone doesn't agree with yours doesn't make them less intelligent. Stop ranting and swearing like a spoilt brat and try to enter to an adult discussion!

Oh, and by the way? Thanks for the confirmation that our PM facilities are being misused by certain other members, despite their long and loud protestations of innocence.... Ooops.

Ajay

[Nicki G]

I am not finance guru by a long shot, but take heed as to what Bob has to say, do not think that is a bed or roses and that nothing negative will ever happen as you are in for a rude awakening, there are issues all over but understand what each has to say and thank you all for valued advice it is great. Sometimes when we are not yet in Oz we do not want to hear any harsh realities, well they are there and find ways to work around them all

[Mara]

Preacher, I think you should put a sock in it, if you cannot discuss something in a sensible manner, without being insulting to an individual whom you know nothing about, then I think it is time you took up that invitation and moved on to another website.

I am thankful that neither of my two sons ended up being as opinionated as what you are..... quite frankly you are so busy kissing your own arse, there is no need for anyone else to do so!

[Preacher]

While I don't agree with Bob's advice that people should be hesitant to come here on anything other than a permanent residence visa, I also put a little more failth in his ability to read and understand the Australian economy than I do in someone that has been here for a mere 4 months.

I've been here 3 years and I agree with Bob that the economy is slowing down - I've seen it since my arrival. I don't share his ideas that Australian employers are going to boot out all temporary visa holders though - certainly not for a long, long time to come, if ever. Also, there is no 2 year period attached to a 457 - if you qualify for PR under any means you can apply whenever you want, regardless of your 457 visa. Some people can ONLY qualify for PR after working for 2 years is all. Bottom line? If you can get a visa - any visa - grab it. Sorry Bob - just donj't share your views on this one.

Preacher - if by 'this little clique' you mean those that don't share your views then I suggest you get a tougher skin and realise that we are all entitled to an opinion and just because someone doesn't agree with yours doesn't make them less intelligent. Stop ranting and swearing like a spoilt brat and try to enter to an adult discussion!

Oh, and by the way? Thanks for the confirmation that our PM facilities are being misused by certain other members, despite their long and loud protestations of innocence.... Ooops.

Ajay

Firstly, the foul language. Who gives a toss? If we are all adults here then surely almost any form of expression is acceptable. I never saw a PG13 sticker in the foyer and I certainly dont see what the big deal is with the odd naughty word. Is this a primary school or something?

Secondly, the fact that you automatically would blow someone's opinion about something as broad as economics out the water simply because they have not lived in the country as long old Bob is equally ridiculous. He is passing off nothing more then layman speculation as fact here. You have absolutely no idea what my background is or where I am coming from yet you automatically assume I am incorrect simply because of past location? No one has even challenged my point, they have all challenged my approach. No one has called me to book here on the statements I made here in any aspect other then the stance I took

No one has to share my views. I am quite open to the idea of open debate. Use the search facility where you can see I have raised this issue before. The clique I speak of is the fact that simply because a person has been around a long time everyone will take their word as gospel.

Now I am sorry, but Bobs post will put people off coming here. Its alarmist and over the top. Extenuating circumstances, that being SA as a whole, make it even more irresponsible. People who leave SA are leaving for very different reasons to people who leave the UK for australia. They are already in a state of turmoil and sewing further seeds of doubt WHEN THEY ARE GENERALLY UNTRUE is irresponsible. How the bloody hell can unqualified people be passing off advice like this?

You should not automatically be absolved of wrong doing simply because you have been here a while. That is the clique I talk of.

People need to seriously wake up here. For all the good this forum does, it has the potential to do immense damage too. I can understand how a community develops on a forum over time and that order needs to be maintained too. What I refuse to accept is that established members can post nonsense like that and when someone relatively new calls them on their people get upset? Ridiculous.

[Janneman_Kie]

Hey Guys and Girls,

Park this thing or you are going to get it sent to the cooler.

Can somebody just tell us if it is true that you can apply for 457 and PR at the same time and how long does each take ?

Sjoe - koel nou bietjie af toe !!

[Preacher]

Preacher, I think you should put a sock in it, if you cannot discuss something in a sensible manner, without being insulting to an individual whom you know nothing about, then I think it is time you took up that invitation and moved on to another website.

I am thankful that neither of my two sons ended up being as opinionated as what you are..... quite frankly you are so busy kissing your own arse, there is no need for anyone else to do so!

Sensible manner?

You know what the ironic thing is Mara is that you will actually tolerate unsubstantiated alarmist nonsense in the original post but you wont tolerate someone calling the person out on it?

What exactly are you guys running here? A forum to relay information to people or a forum to kiss each others arses? It seems like a person needs to suck up to the right people here or be around long enough in the local bible group before actually being allowed to speak freely.

Hope your sons are as opinionated as me one day. Pray for it. Believe it or not some of us actually get paid for this ranting. Quite well in fact, sometimes all over the world.

I tell you what though. I wont leave of my own free will. You want me gone, ban me. Take a stance on the matter and ban me. Read through all my contributions on this website and then decide if you think that what I say might bring value OR stick to the little clique you guys have going here and kick me out. Its that simple.

No one has yet to actually contest any points I raised though. Nope. Everyones just upset because I was nasty to Bob.

[Rete]

Bob's right; the belligerent South African is wrong....

Expect more of this type of reporting to come.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtm.../30/cnoz130.xml

[JanCPT]

Sensible manner?

You know what the ironic thing is Mara is that you will actually tolerate unsubstantiated alarmist nonsense in the original post but you wont tolerate someone calling the person out on it?

Hey Preacher

The reason why swearing isn't encouraged, is because we are all sober (hopefully) & civilised

I'm sure that if you tone down the aggression, you might get a bit of support for your opinion.

As for your comment, about putting people off a 457, I think that prospective immigrants should hear all sides & make their own decision ... as it is, considering the amount of emotion & aggression you have in your post, they're going to discount your opinion to that of a raving lunatic.

Cheers

Jan

Edited August 3, 2008 by JanCPT