Average middle class people in SA

[ronfire]

So true...

Just for info, my friend has been living in the UK for at least 5 years now. She arrived in Namibia over the weekend 'cause she is getting married. The first comment that she made was how EXPENSIVE everything is here compared to London. And might I add, THE PRICE GETS DIVIDED BY 15 SOMETHING!!!!! eish, wena......

I guess it's all relative, isn't it? Einstein was right!

[Nammer]

Al moet mens maar so bietjie hier en daar afknyp op die luukshede...dink ek dit is die moeite werd. Ek sal defnitief op die kos afknyp dit kan die figuur net goed doen

DITTO

[5vannemerwea]

Hey guys

Uplifting post and thanks for all the positive info.

I am out of work for the last year in SA (I am to white to apply for a job). So we can't be closer to the zero mark that we are now. My little savings I had is also kaput by now.

So, we also start from scratch, but my wife and kids will be safe and that is already worth the exercise!!

Martin

[Nammer]

"Middle Class"?

"Elite"?

These words aren't used in Australia among Aussies unless they're talking about Poms, etc.

In Australia, it doesn't matter if you are "battling" for money or if you have just inherited a couple of million from a long lost aunty.

If you're an Aussie, you're as good as anyone else to drink with and sit at a barbeque table with, to talk to and enjoy the company of, to go fishing with or meet for a coffee somewhere.

South Africans and Pommies might put qualifications on who is "good enough" to invite round for a barbie or who to meet for a coffee, but Aussies don't put those restrictions on themselves

So . . . . leave them behind in South Africa.

When you get to Australia and you're mixing with Australians, it's alright to tell them that you're a carpenter or welder and the person you're talking to is a rocket scientist.

It doesn't matter . . . and an Australian rocket scientist won't give a stuff.

You're talking to him, drinking a coldie with him at a barbie and if the level of conversation is at a good level, then you're looking good!

He will most likely tell you that his dad was a welder or a carpenter and that he spent many hours with his old man holding the end of a lump of wood while his dad nailed it in place! . . . . Good times!

That's what Aussies are like.

Now . . . . what's all this worry about????

Sleepless nights worrying about not having enough money for this and for that??

In Australia, what's important is that you are a "good bloke" . . . . not how much money you earn or how much dough you've got in the bank, whether you drive a 1992 Holden you bought for $500 or a new Porsche.

It doesn't matter . . . . not to Aussies.

So . . . stop worrying.

Stop thinking "South African"

Be smart.

Start thinking "Australian"

You will get by, even if you only earn a small wage. Life will be good. Life will be manageable.

Trust me.

PHEW!!!!!!!!!!! What a relief.

What you say about Saffers are very true indeed. I also see it in my work. You have to kiss the guy with the most money a$% the whole time. You go the extra mile for the rich guys AND IT IS STILL NOT GOOD ENOUGH. It is actually a very sad situation. The flip side of the coin is that someone with less money does not receive the VIP treatment. And yes, I am guilty of that. For this there are numerous reasons, but basically the boss wants to see the dineros.....

The story about the rocket scientist being a welder's son also rings true for many South Africans. However, most of us are not proud of our back grounds.

The reason for this you only understand once you have lived here for a while. And the sad thing is that it begins at school. Since the very first day one is asked: "What do your parents do?" Of course one cannot expect a teacher's child to get the same treatment as that of MR Doctor or Mr CEO Bank. That is our reality.

Today, after many years of studying and working very hard to establish myself the question always asked remains: "Who is your father and what does he do?"

I am looking forward to live in a country where no one gives a s&^% about what your parents do. After all, am I not my own person?

[matman]

I posted this on another thread, but thought relevant to this topic.

"I believer that Aus actually has the capacity for more people to uplift themselves over time from being just an average Joe to a well to do Joe if they want. Aus is the land of opportunity if you know where to go and find it. This is not to say all of a sudden this will apply to everyone. To me the key is what skills you have, are you street smart, have some guts to take a chance and some other qualities. All I am saying is that if you want to settle for an average life in Aus you can do that, but if you want more you can also do that. As they say "Grab the Bull by the Horns"

For example it is a common thing in Aus to own a home and then have the investment property or maybe 2,3,4,5 of them

I know some people who I would say were not well off yet they own about 5properties all generating income. In S.A. your average or even well to do individual would not have been able to do this. We all just struggled to own a single property and pay off as fast as we can.

My point being is that if you have the skills, some goedspa (spelling - jewish word), the will and then combined with the many opportunities that can be found in Aus. I believe in fact someone who was considered average in S.A. has the potential to become well off and in somes cases a wealthy person in Aus.

I take myself in point. In S.A. I had a well paid and respected job and we did fine. My dream was always to live and retire on a golf course. In S.A. I never pictured that happening, yet within 2yrs of arriving in Aus we were able to purchase property on a golf estate. I am living o a golf course , but still have someway to go before I retire Around me I have neighbours who are postmen, blue collar workers, tradies - folk like myself who in S.A. would never have had the opportunity to live this lifestyle in S.A.

Just a different view. May not apply or work for everyone. Personally I am better off in Aus than I was in S.A. Maybe I have been lucky, but then as some would say "You make your own Luck" "

An interesting link to read especially the 4 principles of Luck

1. One is to expect good fortune, which he says is often a self-fulfilling prophecy
   
2. Maximise your chances of something good happening by creating, noticing and acting on opportunities,
   
3. Listen to "gut feelings" and act on "hunches" about people or situations,
   
4. Cope with bad luck and turn it around by imaging how things could have been worse, or looking at what could be done about the problem
   

Rgds

Matman

[polly]

I can't wait to hang out on the beach I used to live in Cape Town (poor students with a kid) and we used to go out to the beach or just walk around. Can't do that here in Gauteng. We managed on very little cash.

[Narms]

Hi there,

I would be interested to hear from those people that did NOT leave SA with alot of money as to how they coped financially and emotionally in Australia on one salary.

We have spent all our money on this emigration process and are now living month to month in SA??

The only money we are gonna get will be when we sell our small simplex.

I hear alot of people on this forum talking about how things cost in Oz. Just wanna know please from an average salary earner - do you manage? And what sort of thing did you cut down on?

My husband and I skipped Wimpy lunch on Saturday and sat inside one of the malls eating our pies coz we were starving. We both had a good giggle when I told my hubbie we are preparing for our Ozzie life style !!!!

Hi Smartie

Ditto - we are basically in the same boat and it is very scary!

What part of Ausie are you planning on going to?

Do you have a support network there already?

Cheers

Narms

[Smartie]

Hi there,

No network, no family, not even close friends - OUCH!!

Looks like it may be Melbourne.

My hubbie has been asked to come over for an interview next month. I am not happy about it coz its another 20K that quite frankly we actually cannot afford but he wants to go coz he feels something good may come of it!!!

[Dugong]

Looked through some of this and it seems that people have a different view on what middle class means - hope this isn't hijacking topic, but given the changes in RSA todate, what/how would you describe as Average middle class people in SA? Looking at the salary servey, most people on this site seem to earn between R300k and R400k and are looking for/earning in Aus between $50 and $80, so in financial terms that seems to be the translation.

Australians may not care what car you drive or what house you stay in, but I guess its only natural for people to enquire about their station in life and how that will be effected (most will still come because its not just finances that drive us) but good to know. So, if R300k-R400k is the average middle class today, what life style does that afford you you in RSA? Can you get the same on the $50k-$90k in Aus or what will you need to give up.....

For those that say that they earn R300k to R400k, is that for both of you or only one of you? How will that change in Aus? What kind of debt do you have to support your life styles now? What do you envisage in Aus?

Edited March 13, 2008 by Lion King

[Maritza2]

Thanks everybody for a great thread! This was one of the things that I like most about Oz - that you don't need to compete. I like to think of myself of somebody that don't care what other people think, but sometimes it does get to you!

Here in SA we are a bit stuck. I always said I do not want to work while the children are small, but at the beginning of last year, I had to make a decision. Everything is so expensive and hubby's salary don't increase at the same rate. I decided to start a business from home, iso going back to work. It still hard, seeing I am only working half day, so that I can spent the rest of the day with my daughter. But at this stage, we again are struggling to cope. The next step is for hubby to take a "promotion"; it will mean more money, but less time at home. But we are a family, and that is where we like to spend our time. So what next? I really started to feel that it is not going to get better soon. It is not about money; it is about having quality time with our family, and being able to afford to do so!

We did our medical examinations today and application for 457 visa has been lodged, and in the mean time I am praying everything will work out well. The house is sold! We are just waiting for the news!

I am so excited! It will be like a dream come true, because it is! It is hard to believe that the reality of the life we want is so very close, and that it is possible.

Good luck to you all, and may you all have the dream of a better life come true!!

[Doortjie]

Hi Smartie

We came over with no extra money. We live a very “average†life in Melbourne at the moment and I know many couples in the same boat. We have one car and one salary (and a house that won’t sell in South Africa). But we have more than enough and I don’t miss the life behind the security fences. The public transport in Melbourne is very effective – I don’t know about the other cities.

It is so true what Bob said and that is something to appreciate about the Aussies.

Good luck and just get here. You will be o.k.

[Smartie]

Hi Smartie

We came over with no extra money. We live a very “average†life in Melbourne at the moment and I know many couples in the same boat. We have one car and one salary (and a house that won’t sell in South Africa). But we have more than enough and I don’t miss the life behind the security fences. The public transport in Melbourne is very effective – I don’t know about the other cities.

It is so true what Bob said and that is something to appreciate about the Aussies.

Good luck and just get here. You will be o.k.

Thanks Doorjtjie,

Looks my hubbie may be flying out to Melbourne for a possible job offer in 2 weeks time.

If Melbourne is where we eventually settle I will certainly love to meet for a cup of coffee.

Chat soon

love

Smartie

xxx

[5vannemerwea]

Looked through some of this and it seems that people have a different view on what middle class means - hope this isn't hijacking topic, but given the changes in RSA todate, what/how would you describe as Average middle class people in SA? Looking at the salary servey, most people on this site seem to earn between R300k and R400k and are looking for/earning in Aus between $50 and $80, so in financial terms that seems to be the translation.

Australians may not care what car you drive or what house you stay in, but I guess its only natural for people to enquire about their station in life and how that will be effected (most will still come because its not just finances that drive us) but good to know. So, if R300k-R400k is the average middle class today, what life style does that afford you you in RSA? Can you get the same on the $50k-$90k in Aus or what will you need to give up.....

For those that say that they earn R300k to R400k, is that for both of you or only one of you? How will that change in Aus? What kind of debt do you have to support your life styles now? What do you envisage in Aus?

Hell, if that is an average salary then I wonder where I fit in the picture?

Could it be a difference in perspectives?

Edited March 14, 2008 by 4vannemerwes

[jacquesd]

I was getting a bit worried, as the amounts are for middleclass, except if you add the better halve's income as well.

Martin

Onthou , ons is in Bloemmies en ons middelklas is baie laer as hierbo genoem.Dit kan dan net seker beter met ons gaan!

[Andrea]

When you get to Australia and you're mixing with Australians, it's alright to tell them that you're a carpenter or welder and the person you're talking to is a rocket scientist.

It doesn't matter . . . and an Australian rocket scientist won't give a stuff.

You're talking to him, drinking a coldie with him at a barbie and if the level of conversation is at a good level, then you're looking good!

So true!! We were at a garden wedding a few years ago and my DH struck up a conversation with this lovely old bloke, who was a bio-genetic scientist, and had been working on the same project for 25 years. He was quite excited about the fact that a break through was emminent (sp?). He spent hours chatting away to us, and DH's qualification is a 'fitter'.

[qwerty]

I think it depends on the person...We don't have any kids yet (only 2 Golden Retrievers)...We don't have many luxuries either, e.g no DSTV etc...although we can affort it. Instead we opted to pay our bond double every month and used some of this money for renovations on our house...

Now lets just hope we get some return on our investment...not sure if you look at the interest rates and petrol prices

[Sambo]

I am starting to get a bit irked by this topic - to be perfectly honest.

I think a standard of living is relative. I am starting feel like I have to apologise for my standard of living because I'm not as hard done by like some of you. My husband (a professional) and I (work from home mum) are proud of what we have achieved together. I don't ever make out as though we are priveledged - just honest and hard working citizens - and we don't care to compete with the Joneses - becauses those Joneses probably have to do the Credit Card Shuffle every month.

But this doesn't make us any less "worthy" of coming to Australia or contributing to the Australian economy - because like the rest of future immigrants we want whats best and safest for our young family. And I don't doubt for a second that life in Aus is different - and I look forward to rising up and meeting that challenge head on too.

[Navigator]

I am starting to get a bit irked by this topic - to be perfectly honest.

I think a standard of living is relative. I am starting feel like I have to apologise for my standard of living because I'm not as hard done by like some of you. My husband (a professional) and I (work from home mum) are proud of what we have achieved together. I don't ever make out as though we are priveledged - just honest and hard working citizens - and we don't care to compete with the Joneses - becauses those Joneses probably have to do the Credit Card Shuffle every month.

But this doesn't make us any less "worthy" of coming to Australia or contributing to the Australian economy - because like the rest of future immigrants we want whats best and safest for our young family. And I don't doubt for a second that life in Aus is different - and I look forward to rising up and meeting that challenge head on too.

Nobody said you are less "worthy", but less face it, there are many people that are less fortunate, or are on lower incomes, and have to spend all their life savings in order to make the move to Australia, also for the sake of their kids and their future.

The fact that this topic "irks" you, is indicative of the attitude of some South Africans that think people with smaller incomes or a lower standard of living are less "worthy" to make the move. People like that piss me off, so if the shoe fits...

The mere fact that you are getting irked by this topic tells me a great deal about you...

[jacquesd]

I don't ever make out as though we are priveledged - just honest and hard working citizens - and we don't care to compete with the Joneses - becauses those Joneses probably have to do the Credit Card Shuffle every month.

So if i understand correcctly.

Anyone that earns less than you and your husband are not honest and hardworking?

Just face it. There will always be someone that's got more than you, and always someone that has got less.

If you look down on someone with less, imagine what are the people thinking of you that have much more than you!

You do sound like the "mevrou doktor" that there are so many of in South Africa.

Good luck going to Oz.

[saffer2]

Sambo did not say that people that earn less are not honest and hard working, nor that they are less "worthy" to move.

If I understand it Sambo feels a little judged by this thread, and I can see why. Everyone sacrifices to move to Aus.

At the end of the day we are all people who believe that a person's worth has little to do with their income and "status". I don't think Sambo is any different.

[Annette]

Mmmmm experiences are obviously different for a lot of people. Depending on the context of your day to day life, things could look different... I work at a prestigous private school and have never seen such snobbery in my life, among colleagues, students and parents. I have been quite disappointed with some of the classist attitudes I have come across here.

Look, don't get me wrong, we are very happy here and we happen to live in an area where there is a great mix of people, but there are areas in the Eastern suburbs of Adelaide where there are some really ungenerous attitudes.

We arrived with very little and are completely comfortable. We can't really afford a house and will not be going on holiday for a VERY loooong time, but that's no different to before. My husband earns a pittance as an architect (definitely NOT 7 percent - I wish!) but my salary is much better than it was before. We moved from a small semi in England to a lovely confortable house with a pool here.

I guess what I'm trying to say simultaneously is that yes, us "middle class" people are doing well thank you, but don;t always believe the myth that Aussies are so egalitarian etc. Example: my brother has been here for a week. His potential new boss asked where he was staying. When he mentioned where we lived, he got a roll of the eyes and "You don't want to live there. Doctors live in the Eastern suburbs". This from an Adelaide born and bred Aussie... (whose kids just happen to attend said snobbish school)

And that's another thing I keep asking myself - if everyone's so equal and no one cares who you are, where you live etc., why so many private schools?

[Guest natalie3]

I am starting to get a bit irked by this topic - to be perfectly honest.

I think a standard of living is relative. I am starting feel like I have to apologise for my standard of living because I'm not as hard done by like some of you.

MMM...what exactly makes u think u are wealthier than most of us hey???..

Seems to me u are aiming at a pissing-contest?

[saffer2]

Why are people intent on making this into an issue?

Many have found this thread useful - don't ruin it with bickering.

Cut Sambo some slack.

[saffer2]

don;t always believe the myth that Aussies are so egalitarian etc

I definately think that, on average, Australians are less materialistic and more egalatarian than South Africans, but I agree that there are certainly areas where this is not the case. Where we are in Sydney where you live is important, and schools are a big issue. Really high property prices are creating more areas of exclusivity. Sad, but true.

[Navigator]

Cut Sambo some slack.

You reap what you sow - how about she cut those less fortunate than herself some slack! Her opening line doesn't deserve being cut any slack!!