Honest opinions, will I fail or get over my attitude?

[vitchie]

Hi all

I Landed here a week and a half ago and I am really battling. I have had a very soft landing. I Come without family and living with friends. Everyone here is very helpful, packing me lunches, making me dinner, dropping me at the train station etc. I have also met with 3-4 different South African friends. I have a well-paying job in North Sydney and that is going just so so. A small startup company that don't really seem to know what they are doing. I don't suspect that I would last here for long.

My issue, I don't think I am committed enough for this. My wife and kids are still in South Africa, they packed our container last Friday. I asked the shipping company to store the stuff in South Africa first as I am having serious second thoughts.

I'm not looking for justifications to stay, just your honest opinion if you guys think it is possible to make it through this tough process with my frame of mind.

I come from a relatively comfortable position in South Africa and I am 36. Having a decent income but much in terms of life/retirement savings. My kids are 11 and 6, with the youngest starting school next year.

I have had some doubts before I left, but eventually "just closed my eyes and jumped", hoping I could reconcile my heart with my mind here. In my head I know the reasons, but I don't feel the same in my heart.

I am worried about the following:
1. The guilt of leaving brothers, sisters and parents behind is consuming me. We have no family here and we are a closely-knit family that regularly see and support each other. They also play a major role my our kids' lives.
2. Retirement. We are coming here with very little savings, the kind that can be wiped out in 3 months. Not sure how we will ever buy property. From what I see the Australian super/pension is designed with the assumption that you will own some sort of property by retirement age.
3. Identity. I am losing myself. There are parts of my personality, be it good or bad that I would need to kill off completely to make this transition. How can I be a proper father to my kids in their formative year if I have no idea of who I am anymore. I have never struggled with depression, but since starting the application process in 2015 I have so depressed. Now that I am here in Sydney I am borderline suicidal.
4. Decision-making/ticking boxes. I found that some of the reasons for our decision is has been, "we have done so much, we cannot give up now." I am wondering is that really a good enough reason if you're not convinced in your heart?
5. Regrets. We spent a lot of money on this process so far. We have also sold our house and found a new job for the domestic. I would still rather regret those and restart in SA than regret disrupting my kid's lives in their formative years by moving to Oz and back to SA 6 months later.
6. Career. I need time to regain my confidence in my career. This past year really affected my confidence. I only started doing c# development again at the beginning of 2015 (after doing other non development related product work for 7 years). Without a network or any familiarity I am really just a beginner now. I cannot adjust to a new life/everything in Australia while I am essentially relearning my job too. 

The reasoning we used yesterday to keep us carry on is to maybe rent a furnished apartment for 6 months and see how it goes and keep our stuff in storage in SA for a while. I definitely cannot commit to 2-4 years yet. We even kept our daughter's places in their school in SA.

The issue is that my wife will probably resent me for not allowing them the chance to also experience it here, but moving back after a longer period just seems too disruptive to the kids for me.

My opinion, which might be wrong, is that a lot of people last it out, not because they want to, but because they have to. For reason like:

•     Kids adjusted but parents not. Cannot uproot the kids again
•     One parent adjusted and other not. 
•     Cannot afford to go back. 
•     Pride

 

I am also flying back on 22 December and have our 1 way tickets booked for 27 December. Oh how I am dreading that trip seeing everyone having to say goodbye.

 

I know my attitude is completely wrong. I just want to ask everyone, have you seen anyone with my kind of attitude get here and change enough eventually to adapt for the better, or does it seem unlikely?

I would really appreciate your honest opinions.

Edited November 29, 2016 by vitchie

[Riekie]

My advice to anyone would be not to leave too many open doors (ideally NO open doors). If you know there's a way out, you'll take it as soon as it gets a bit tough.  It's human nature. Ask yourself if you are willing to do this whatever it takes before you take the leap and don't do it if you haven't made that commitment mentally. Half the battle is lost or won in our minds.  It's hard initially, but knowing it's a case of make or break, gives you the strength to see it through. If you have a plan B & C & D lined up in South Africa, you're only setting yourself up for failure. I'm not saying this as any discouragement but this is the reality of the matter.  I really hope you find the answers and clarity you're looking for.  All the best!

 

 

 

 

[RedPanda]

I hope the company has helped?

Immigration really is like cycling uphill, we each have our own struggle, but we are doing it together in a group, and when we see someone struggling particularly hard, we all cheer them on because we know it's worth it.

Slow and steady, you'll get there.  

[ChrisinBris]

Hey @vitchie

 

I am 38, have 3 kids and recently moved to live in North Sydney. Would happily buy you a beer sometime and chat about our journey - maybe there is an answer in that story for you.

 

Hit me up if interested.

 

Worse case scenario - you meet someone new....

 

Keep strong

Chris

[Sassyninja]

So sorry I did not see this sooner! Hope you are adjusting and remembered why you are doing this. 

Please send an update - have a Merry Christmas! 

Edited December 13, 2016 by Sassyninja

[qwerty]

First of all I agree with everyone else around seeing someone to help you work through your depression! Take care of yourself first and then you'll be able to take better care of your family too.

 

Our story:

 

I came 6 weeks ahead of my family. Also had a soft landing in that I secured a job while still in SA. I think what worked for me was not having any expectations around how things should be or what I should be doing at any given time. Yes, it was hard being away from my family and it is highly unlikely that I'll do it again, but it was worth it. We earned $ from the start, so didn't have to dip into our savings. My husband took a 3-month contract initially, which later turned into full-time employment. We've been here 2 1/2 years and I've changed jobs three times. I was lucky enough to work at great companies each time and the main motivation for moving was to get at the same level I was in in SA career-wise.

 

My parents have visited us a few times now. My Mom said that although it's sad not having any of her grandchildren in SA (the other one lives in the UK), we made the right decision for ourselves and our daughter. Her reasoning was that they have lived their lives already and it is our responsibility to secure the best possible life for our child.

 

My daughter (almost 8 years old now) told me the other day that she didn't want to go back to South Africa. She found the teachers in Oz a lot friendlier and very focused on helping her succeed. She had ESL (English Second Language) support in Kindy, but did not need it for Year 1. She was one of the top performers in her class this year and will be placed in a Year 2 class where she'll be stretched a bit more academically next year. She was also a finalist in her school's K-2 public speaking competition. Not bad for an Afrikaans 'meisie'. The point I'm trying to make is that Oz is very child focused and the teachers really go out of their way to help immigrant children succeed. She walks around with an Aussie flag pressed to her chest saying "This is my heart". I'm not sure that she would have had the same support and encouragement in SA. Here she is just blossoming to become what she was meant to be - no baggage attached.

 

I figure, my husband and I will always be 'the South Africans' and will probably never really settle completely. However, I would not give up the quality of life we've found here for ourselves and our daughter for any lifestyle anywhere else. Love Sydney and love where I am at now. Yes, you give up a lot of things in the process, but you also gain a lot more in terms of the things that really matter.

 

Best of luck to you and your family. My husband also works in North Sydney, if you ever want to catch up.

[Rhyss]

@vitchie

 

I can relate so pls allow me to be very direct, cruel to be kind if you like.

 

I've been here for 15 years, with wife and 2 kids. We left SA, a VERY good job, a close-knit family, 2 dogs and a lifetime of memories. We did not have a soft landing, we knew no one! Facetime, Skype and WhatsApp did not exist. I remember sneaking into the office after work to send a fax to our family and buying "phone cards" to make phone calls to SA.

 

My advice is "toughen up princess!". You and your family have been granted a visa to live and work in Aus. You have a job and the luxury of picking and choosing whether you want to stay or go. Most people I know in SA will give their right arm, first born and kidney to have what you have.

 

Here's some facts. If you did not consider these then you really did not do your research.

You will get homesick

You will miss your family, friends, work colleagues, pets, sports and even your TV programs

You will struggle to retain your identity and everything that you're familiar with. Yes, even Jhb taxis! What shaped you into who you are is no longer part of your life.

You will miss the SA vibe, the languages, smells, smiles and humour.....your culture

You will miss milestone family celebrations, birthdays, Xmas lunches, wedding anniversaries

You won't be there to grow old with your siblings and close friends. Sure you'll make new friends but you cannot make old friends.

You wont be around to help your family in their time of need, you won't be there to help your elderly parents when they need you

 

As for Aus....

You will think you know better than the company that's employed you (don't worry it's a typical Saffa thing)

You will think that the Aussies are doing it all wrong (again don't worry it's a trypical Saffa thing)

You won't be able to afford a house in Sydney or certainly within a comfortable commute of the city

You will worry about your retirement. Aus is one of the most expensive countries in the developed world, it is a real worry!

You'll find yourself saying things like "mate" and "no worries" just to fit in

 

I know this as I speak from experience, my own experience on every one of the points above. How did I deal with it, one bite at a time.

 

Set yourself goals and remember that this is not a life sentence. Tackle the journey one step at a time. Don't get paranoid about not been able to buy a house in Sydney or retire comfortably. Worry about that in years to come. If you stick it out for a few years, get your Aus citizenship and save some AUD then great, you're way ahead. But in all likliness you'll stick it out, you'll feel more settled, you'll do the odd trip back to SA to visit family, you'll notice that you've changed and now feel more at home in Aus and before you know it you'll be begging the wife to go back to SA for holiday as she will prefer Fiji, skiing in NZ or Whitsundays. Allow yourself time and don't take it so seriously, it's not a life sentence. You'll be amazed how lekker it is when you're not short of breath.

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

[189inprocess]

Vitchie, I dont post often but have been a member for years. I read your story and could relate so much .. and we arent even there yet. I hope you and your family have found some peace in whatever decision you have made and that each day gets easier 

 

[Oliver99]

Mate, if it's all too much, there's no-one out there who has the right to judge you. Pack your bags and go back home. No need to feel bad about it. This isn't the life for everybody. At least you'll have your family around you.

 

Stay strong buddy.

[JohannSmithSA]

On 11/29/2016 at 2:09 AM, vitchie said:

Hi all

I Landed here a week and a half ago and I am really battling. I have had a very soft landing. I Come without family and living with friends. Everyone here is very helpful, packing me lunches, making me dinner, dropping me at the train station etc. I have also met with 3-4 different South African friends. I have a well-paying job in North Sydney and that is going just so so. A small startup company that don't really seem to know what they are doing. I don't suspect that I would last here for long.

My issue, I don't think I am committed enough for this. My wife and kids are still in South Africa, they packed our container last Friday. I asked the shipping company to store the stuff in South Africa first as I am having serious second thoughts.

I'm not looking for justifications to stay, just your honest opinion if you guys think it is possible to make it through this tough process with my frame of mind.

I come from a relatively comfortable position in South Africa and I am 36. Having a decent income but much in terms of life/retirement savings. My kids are 11 and 6, with the youngest starting school next year.

I have had some doubts before I left, but eventually "just closed my eyes and jumped", hoping I could reconcile my heart with my mind here. In my head I know the reasons, but I don't feel the same in my heart.

I am worried about the following:
1. The guilt of leaving brothers, sisters and parents behind is consuming me. We have no family here and we are a closely-knit family that regularly see and support each other. They also play a major role my our kids' lives.
2. Retirement. We are coming here with very little savings, the kind that can be wiped out in 3 months. Not sure how we will ever buy property. From what I see the Australian super/pension is designed with the assumption that you will own some sort of property by retirement age.
3. Identity. I am losing myself. There are parts of my personality, be it good or bad that I would need to kill off completely to make this transition. How can I be a proper father to my kids in their formative year if I have no idea of who I am anymore. I have never struggled with depression, but since starting the application process in 2015 I have so depressed. Now that I am here in Sydney I am borderline suicidal.
4. Decision-making/ticking boxes. I found that some of the reasons for our decision is has been, "we have done so much, we cannot give up now." I am wondering is that really a good enough reason if you're not convinced in your heart?
5. Regrets. We spent a lot of money on this process so far. We have also sold our house and found a new job for the domestic. I would still rather regret those and restart in SA than regret disrupting my kid's lives in their formative years by moving to Oz and back to SA 6 months later.
6. Career. I need time to regain my confidence in my career. This past year really affected my confidence. I only started doing c# development again at the beginning of 2015 (after doing other non development related product work for 7 years). Without a network or any familiarity I am really just a beginner now. I cannot adjust to a new life/everything in Australia while I am essentially relearning my job too. 

The reasoning we used yesterday to keep us carry on is to maybe rent a furnished apartment for 6 months and see how it goes and keep our stuff in storage in SA for a while. I definitely cannot commit to 2-4 years yet. We even kept our daughter's places in their school in SA.

The issue is that my wife will probably resent me for not allowing them the chance to also experience it here, but moving back after a longer period just seems too disruptive to the kids for me.

My opinion, which might be wrong, is that a lot of people last it out, not because they want to, but because they have to. For reason like:

•     Kids adjusted but parents not. Cannot uproot the kids again
•     One parent adjusted and other not. 
•     Cannot afford to go back. 
•     Pride

 

I am also flying back on 22 December and have our 1 way tickets booked for 27 December. Oh how I am dreading that trip seeing everyone having to say goodbye.

 

I know my attitude is completely wrong. I just want to ask everyone, have you seen anyone with my kind of attitude get here and change enough eventually to adapt for the better, or does it seem unlikely?

I would really appreciate your honest opinions.

I am new to this site and we are planning to be in Australia by July 2018.

 

I honestly hope and pray that you and your family are doing better by this time.

It's getting harder and harder in SA.

I had to work for 3 years in a neighboring country, seeing my wife and daughter for 2 weeks every 3 months.

This is what I want to say to you:

Think about your children and their future and about safety.

It's very hard leaving family behind. 

Good luck and all the best. 

 

[vitchie]

22 hours ago, JohannSmithSA said:

I am new to this site and we are planning to be in Australia by July 2018.

 

I honestly hope and pray that you and your family are doing better by this time.

It's getting harder and harder in SA.

I had to work for 3 years in a neighboring country, seeing my wife and daughter for 2 weeks every 3 months.

This is what I want to say to you:

Think about your children and their future and about safety.

It's very hard leaving family behind. 

Good luck and all the best. 

 

 

Hi Johann. We are doing a bit better thanks. We actually returned to South Africa for Christmas and never went back to Australia. A few month down the line and we are doing the move again. I'm still not sure if we can do it forever, but I am committing to staying 4 years and getting that passport. After that we can make a more informed decision.

[JohannSmithSA]

25 minutes ago, vitchie said:

 

Hi Johann. We are doing a bit better thanks. We actually returned to South Africa for Christmas and never went back to Australia. A few month down the line and we are doing the move again. I'm still not sure if we can do it forever, but I am committing to staying 4 years and getting that passport. After that we can make a more informed decision.

Hi Vitchie,

Hang in there man! 

The reality of the fact is that things are not getting any better. There are constant media reports about seizing white owned farms, nationalization of banks, mines and other industries.

Don't think Australia as a temporary solution. It must be the permanent and only solution. 

[Sassyninja]

Thats what we said when we moved, if we make this decision thats it, we HAVE to make it work. There was no going back for us, other than holidays, but also we only plan to holiday after 2 years to give ourselves a chance at success here. 

I must admit its now been 11 months and its breaking my heart that i never hear from my best friend anymore, as much as I have tried from my side. ?

Time to join a class of sorts and put ourselves out there. 

All the best with your move. I am certain you will make it this time! 

 

[Mara]

@Sassyninja I agree, it is said when friends start ignoring you, however, I guess we have to accept the old story of "out of site - out of mind".

 

I have a friend in RSA that I have known since I was 18 years old, she has done just that. She is quite happy to reply to any messages I send her, but she rarely if ever shares anything of note with me. Sad though it is, friends do sometimes just move on. The part I find particularly strange is that in the days of snail mail, I used to get a letter from her at least once a month, now that we can connect daily electronically, it seems to be too much trouble, go figure!

 

On the other hand, I have another friend, where hardly a day goes by without us being in touch on Whatsapp. When we do manage to see each other, it is like we were together yesterday. I love her to bits and appreciate the fact that she is still such a good friend. 

Edited May 18, 2017 by Mara

[Riekie]

On 17/05/2017 at 9:23 PM, vitchie said:

 

Hi Johann. We are doing a bit better thanks. We actually returned to South Africa for Christmas and never went back to Australia. A few month down the line and we are doing the move again. I'm still not sure if we can do it forever, but I am committing to staying 4 years and getting that passport. After that we can make a more informed decision.

Hi Vitchie,

 

I think you essentially made two big mistakes which affected your ability to adjust and to think positively about a future in Australia:

 

You saw it as a temporary arrangement (keeping a back door open)

You went back for a visit too soon

 

You now have a 2nd chance - don't make those mistakes again. 

 

See this as a permanent change so you can put down roots, dig your heels in and plan a future in Australia. As long as you keep that back door open, you will not be able to feel that you belong as you will always think of the day you're going back. Giving yourself 4 years is simply an extended back door and I can guarantee you now that you will go back. Make Australia your home.  Throw yourself into it.  Buy a home, plan your retirement....   

 

Don't go back to visit for at least 18 months to 2 years. It takes about that period of time to settle down, make new friends, find your feet, and most importantly, to mourn your loss. If you go back during this time, you will stay there.

 

That said, nothing will ever prevent you from going back when you want to, but make that decision out of a point of strength, not a point of weakness.  Go back because you're happy to live anywhere - not because you can't live anywhere else. Then, and only then, will you be happy and at peace with where you are.

 

You've got to get your head right.

[JulesR]

14 hours ago, Riekie said:

That said, nothing will ever prevent you from going back when you want to, but make that decision out of a point of strength, not a point of weakness.  Go back because you're happy to live anywhere - not because you can't live anywhere else. Then, and only then, will you be happy and at peace with where you are.

There are some seriously wise people on this forum 

[Sassyninja]

@Mara The effort of texting irony is much like people that have alternate passports and have the option to leave SA at the drop of a hat, but dont. 

The text message is so easy and always there, so they know they can reach out easily when they want, but dont.  

I just need to try not take it personally. I also think the timezone difference doesnt help. Ive been meaning to call another friend all week but the time difference makes it a bit difficult. 

[SurferMan]

I am settled in nicely now, coming up to 7 years. Bloody hell times flies! Yes I will never have the accent (I could go to class and get one..) I will always be generation 1 - The Founders. SO what? Stuff works here, its stunning as a painting, life is good, the outdoors is amazing and the best part, I. Am. Alive!

 

I hope to be remembered as the guy who took his family to a new place, took the hits (those who know my story know I took my share..) bled, but when the bell rang, kept swinging. A lot of that will power I drew from you fellow forumites, a debt which I cannot ever repay, but I try in my little way where I can.

 

To those who made it here, I salute you. To those who return, I salute you too. Because at least you dared.

 

This is my email signature, and I believe it defines me fairly well.

 

It is my hope that whatever your plight, never forget, it is darkest before dawn. Never give up.

****************************

The Man in the Arena

 

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

— Theodore Roosevelt

[Bonny]

If I'm honest, it probably took me 5-6 years to get my head around living in Australia. I still don't love it but hey what can you do? I now choose to live in Australia, in spite of my serious reservations about the economy. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by Bonny

[Darran]

3 hours ago, Alchemist said:

Cons: Far from SA                                 Pros: Far from SA    

 

? Loved this!

[AdriaanSanta]

Hi all,

 

So this is awesome, I loved this thread from start to finish. I will be heading to Sydney 1st October, my wife and kids will only follow after my two daughter finish their school year.

 

I need my wife to read this and I needed to read this. I told myself I will become an Aussie when I move over. The reason is, if you carry on walking around saying "but I am a South African" you will never be at home. I even promised myself I will start watching Aussies football when I am there.

 

So what have I learned, it is going to be tough no matter how you do it and even if you tell yourself "I know its going to be tough", it will be even tougher. Luckily for me, we are an adventurous family and between the four of us, I dont know who is more excited to move. Yes, I have 2 sister and a brother and my parents and all the in-laws and we are leaving a lot of people behind but, every one has to live their own life at the end of the day.

 

I am so excited to go, I am lucky because I will only be transferring offices, from Johburg to Sydney so I know all of my new colleagues and I know my job.

 

@vitchie I would love to meet up with you once I arrive and see how you are doing and also get some tips on how you are making it work, I trust you are. Lets chat, if you want.

 

Cheers

[Shellfish]

21 hours ago, Alchemist said:

Cons: High cost of living                        Pros: Rising costs in SA making SA unstable as a future for children

My Sister-in-law just got back from a holiday in SA and she said that she struggled to find any groceries or clothing that was cheaper in SA than in Aus. 

I know housing and eating out are still cheaper but she was surprised at how costs have just spiraled out of control. 

 

[Alchemist]

On 7/5/2017 at 0:25 PM, Shellfish said:

My Sister-in-law just got back from a holiday in SA and she said that she struggled to find any groceries or clothing that was cheaper in SA than in Aus. 

I know housing and eating out are still cheaper but she was surprised at how costs have just spiraled out of control. 

 

 

And getting worse...we will soon be paying for a national health system that we cant afford so can imagine more stuff coming

[SimpleSimon]

Why does it have to be make or break, that's such a South African thing. How about it being part of the great adventure of life. Where we end up is not important, but how we do is. Enjoy the journey because life is too short not to.

[monsta]

@SimpleSimon  Retirement is a big issue here... You would have to have had an amazing job in RSA to afford to retire in Australia. Most South Africans can only afford to retire in Australia because they moved out here, invested in property, shares, etc.. and have quite a lot of Aussie savings. 

 

For many people in South Africa... R20 000pm is a good salary. That's below minimum wage in Australia... so if you took your retirement savings from that job and retired in Australia.. you would be some of the poorest Australians. 

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by monsta

[SimpleSimon]

Thank you, that's a very good point. However, you can make do.

 

My folks moved to Australia in their 70's. They were never wealthy in RSA. They get the aged pension and benefits in Australia and supplement that with some passive income and spending from savings. They have a pretty good life here.

 

We arrived in our early 30's. We only started building reasonable savings in our mid to late 40's. We're working in our 50's and we enjoy our jobs so no plans to retire. Kids are very expensive but they do grow up.

I think we're in the similar position to most of our friends of the same age. They are Australians, Chinese, Saffers, Americans, English, Malaysian etc. Affording to retire is an issue for every Australian - only ~10% have enough to live their aspirations after work. That's why the government is slowly pushing up the age that you can get the pension.

I've seen Saffers in St Ives living in 5 bedroom mansions with cleaners, overseas holidays and kids at private schools bemoan the fact at how tough Oz is compared to RSA. 

 

I don't think it's about what or how much you have, it's about how you view the world and your attitude to your personal position. Even on aged benefits, you can live in a nice apartment, have almost free healthcare, catch the bus to the beach, have the occasional meal out. That's better than 98% of the rest of the world.

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by SimpleSimon
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