SA vs Aus: The Truth Please

[Shellfish]

Australia is a great leveler - if cleaning up after yourself, mowing your lawn, washing your car, painting your house or cooking for yourself are things that you can't fathom then it's not for you. Anything labour intensive is expensive because people in Aus demand a liveable wage - not like the poor buggers back home who will take anything just to get work. Aus has a very high minimum wage - around $17 ph compared to the US where is under $7. Basically, many SAn's come over having been the 'Elite' and it takes far more than a degree and a nice car in Aus to be in the elite.

Drugs are an issue, ice most noticeably - but they are massive problem in SA too (tik). Difference is that in Aus is that it's a primary concern that the government is aware of it and they will attempt to tackle it - whether it will be successful is yet to be seen. In SA it's secondary to crime, unemployment, uneducated and homelessness - way down on a very long list.

Lack of competition among the duopoly grocery stores makes them expensive however other competition is moving in - Aldi, Lidl and Costco.

The obsession with AFL - painful - such a rubbish sport when Melbourne has other amazing sporting events but you'd barely know it.

Joburg probably has the best weather in the world - I wish I appreciated it more when I lived there.

I'll remember some other stuff.

[DXB2OZ]

In the interests of acclimatising us, our Aussie friends nominated our AFL team before we even landed (yes, it is a religion here). Kids got into it so we went the whole hog and got membership to the games.

Last night we bundled up (and then packed blankets because it was COLD!!!), parked the car at the station and climbed on the train into town. There is something so delightful about a family outing on the train, especially when it is in the dark. All four of us together, cracking jokes, point out weird people on the train, commenting on the cold - it was great.

Everyone was in their team scarves, beanies and gloves as we joined the throng streaming into the stadium. There was no pushing, I didn't see any unruly behaviour and it was a fun evening.

Now I will be honest and admit that was I know about Aussie rules could probably fit on the back of a postage stamp (the field is an oval and the guys wear teeny tiny shorts ), but there was some good footy, pretty good crowd atmosphere and the kids enjoyed being part of something.

Afterwards everyone happily poured out again, all getting onto their respective trains and heading for home. Great family outing.

It's a pretty good life here.

[Shellfish]

Oh yes - entertainment is expensive but not unaffordably so. I took the kids to see the minion movie in the holidays. $9 per ticket (at our independent cinema) but we took our own food (which you can do here) and so $27 for an afternoon out isn't too bad.

I forgot to say that although the supermarkets are pricey, they have good sales. It's not unusual that items are half price or two for one. This is when extra storage comes in handy. Unfortunately, it's usually processed foods - crackers, biscuits, chips, soft drinks etc but every bit helps. Also, if you can bothered, you can get clothes and toys for ludicrously cheap in sales - I got my daughter a winter coat for $3.50 in the middle of summer - and good quality one, too.

I stopped comparing aus to SA a long time ago. Canada is far more comparative in terms of size, population, education, earnings, cost of living....by that comparison Aus is still expensive but there is no way I could live in Canada - sorry.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Shellfish

[SurferMan]

On the topic of saving, I often trawl the Reduced Section at Woolies. I also make a point to haggle from time to time. We also support the rural farmers. I get a box of 20 avocados for 25 bucks when Woolies are flogging them for $3 for 1. And I know the farmers so well now I get freebies and bunches of other cool things.

Just out of curiosity I jumped onto Woolies SA site, bloody hell! 185ZAR/kg for lamb shanks! Seriously! I pick them up from my rural butcher, fully grass fed (NO grain) for 7.99/kg. Thats more than double for lamb in SA thsan it is in Aus. I get grass fed beed from 6.99/kg. Proper dry aged beef cuts from 12.99/kg. I mean really dry aged, where they cut the cap in front of you. Yes I am a meatosaurus!

I use a local butcher/speciality shop here in Perth called Basils, they get me proper natural casings so I can make my own suasages, and I get the other good stuff like heart, liver, kidneys tripe and trotters. Sigh, all of life's great little treasures. I am still on the hunt for a couple of other elusive items...

Oh, I added another pet dislike in Aus, people who use disabled bays. I JUST HAVE to tell you my story today. Went to Bunnings, and watched a perfectly able man park in the disabled bay. I checked for his ACROD sticker, and tailed him in the store to make sure he was not picking up a disabled person. The little prick was not. So I did the right thng, and confronted him, in front of everyone in the shop, while he was at the till. He first tried to tell me to umm, go forth and multiply, Wrong answer Beavis. He tried to push me, which was the incorrect response. Lets say the fellow got, err, dragged out the store while people openly mocked and shamed him. One chick threw her hotdog through his window. Priceless!

He changed his mind about swearing at me when his discovered his arm could in fact articulate behind his back, into positions he never knew about, with some unfortunate pain issues. I really wanted to hurt him but decided to let him limp off.

I returned to my shopping, and guess what, an old guy who could barely walk with a cane came up to me, and in a raspy voice, said. "Thanks son, if I were a young man I would have owned his ass just like you, but I'm old and buggered, so I had to park at the far end. I'm so tired I can barely make the till." I helped him pack his car and got him all sorted.

Those people make my blood boil. :boxing:

[BriD]

For me...the biggest con is really the price of buying property here...specifically the big cities. If you buy property here...just try try try not to convert what you paid into zar's...it becomes a bitter pill at times.

As has been said...things are expensive - eating out, entertainment, clothes, etc. However, if you are smart you can find very good deals, buy when there are specials. Look at buy/sell sites on Facebook for your area if you don't mind second hand...you can really pick up bargains there. For entertainment, you buy annual passes (if you have kids) and you can go to those attractions an unlimited amount of time through the year. We bought a Merlin Pass and it is FANTASTIC!! We are the people that the annual passes don't really want...the ones who use it ALOT.

I don't like the throw away culture of Australians...I always think about how in RSA you could put something on the kerb and it would be gone in minutes. Here there is not much that goes from the piles on the side of the road. We had a really really good quality lounge suite, recliners etc. I battled to give it away for free!! And even Salvos didn't want it because it had some cat claw damage on one corner...but that was the only thing. I couldn't believe it when they refused to take it...saying their clients are "picky"...I don't know if that is me being snobby....but I find that people who are in need here can be very picky...and it is actually quite ridiculous. There is a saying "beggars can't be choosers" don't shoot me down for that...but it should be true...if you are in need you should not be able to sit there and refuse something perfectly good because it is slightly damaged or second hand. Yeah...considering everything...I think this is my biggest pet peeve about Aus.

I am not very into politics...I have enough going on with settling down in Aus than trying to figure out the confusing world of Australian politics. So I have no opinions at this stage other than they run this country so much better than the ANC run RSA. That is not difficult though...

No country is perfect...but Aus is definitely better for us. We love our lives here...and the cons are minimal compared to the pros.

[Shellfish]

I don't like the throw away culture of Australians...I always think about how in RSA you could put something on the kerb and it would be gone in minutes.

I agree that charity shops are reluctant to take people's stuff - we had the exact same thing when we left the UK. Perfectly good, never used mattress but they wouldn't take our word for it and we had to have it destroyed

This being said, if you put something on gumtree - free to a good home - it will be gone within a day. Your average Irish backpacker who is in Aus for 6 months doesn't care if the mattress in new or not.

[WernerS]

Matt & SunnySkies

The reference to "sissies" is tongue-in-cheek. In other words, an attempt at a little humour to lighten things up a bit. You obviously missed that. Most people would get it, but obviously not you. For that I sincerely apologise.

Matt, I also choose how I react to what people say and I take your judgement on my demeanour as your feeble attempt at humour. And it does not bother me in the least. Like water on a duck's back and all that.

You should not be so sensitive. With your sensitivity-driven comments you are placing a very negative spin on this whole thing; and this is not what I wanted to achieve.

Whilst I appreciate each and every comment here, please be aware that there might be people who do not agree with you and by means of healthy debate, other insights may be reached.

Have a great day

[RedPanda]

I've always disliked the 'stripped down' part of text communication, you lose so much of the message: you lose the tone of voice, the body language, and the facial expressions. All of these are clues about the intention of the message. The unfortunate result being that jokes become somewhat dangerous, and cleverness and personality often get lost.

That being said, my experience on this forum has always been that the members are remarkably mature and good natured about the whole thing. So all-in-all, well done guys. "Just keep swimming..."

____________

This thread actually has a good question, and one that I think causes many prospective migrants if not panic and distress, then at least a small twinge of foreboding. Because we've all been taught:"If something seems too good to be true, it usually is." And let's face it, Australia seems awesome on a level that certainly rouses suspicion. It seems like one of those situations where common sense dictates that the observer is missing something: If it's so great, why isn't it overflowing??? Is the answer really as simple as: Good immigration control and natural barriers that prevent massive illegal immigration? Or are people unaware of how good it is? Or just maybe, is it one of those cases where some people think it's totally amazing and other people really don't like it, like roller coaster rides?

I've come to the conclusion that South Africans are naturally on guard and suspicious of "the next scheme". It took us a while to relax about Australian finance structures(they are so simple), and I think at the back of our minds we are still wondering what the catch is. I also know that it will take us a while after settling there before we stop waiting for the "catch" to catch up with us.

So I think the question is: What's going to "catch" us?

Edited July 13, 2015 by RedPanda

[elleneo]

Yes holidays are expensive, but....but.....with saving and planning you can go on overseas holidays that u could never afford had u stayed in SA. Case in point , instead of going back to sa for a holiday we downing Disney,New Orleans and San Francisco ( much to many peoples' irritation but tuffies for them, we have seen South Africa and want to take our little girl to Disneyland...mommy wants to attend a cooking class in New Orleans on Cajun and creole cuisine.

There is no way..ever..we could have afforded that in South Africa with rands.

There are also many " middle-grounds"..

Expensive schooling- catholic schooling is cheaper

Groceries- I do aldi and Costco

Pets are expensive to buy ( we paid $800 for our Daschund and that's considered a bargain) so bring your Yorkie!

As far as feeding the pets we pay $75 to have a 9kg bag of royal canin delivered every 10 weeks and we feed $15 a month worth of soft food mixed in once a day...

[RedPanda]

Thanks elleneo, we might ask you about that little Dachsie sometime in the future. (my husband adores them, I'm a cat person, but I will tolerate a dachshund and he's allergic to cats, so.....)

So far we've got:

Holidays are expensive
Pets are expensive

The entertainment most South Africans are used to in SA is expensive in Aus

Housing is very expensive

....

[AFreshStart]

Matt & SunnySkies

The reference to "sissies" is tongue-in-cheek. In other words, an attempt at a little humour to lighten things up a bit. You obviously missed that. Most people would get it, but obviously not you. For that I sincerely apologise.

Matt, I also choose how I react to what people say and I take your judgement on my demeanour as your feeble attempt at humour. And it does not bother me in the least. Like water on a duck's back and all that.

You should not be so sensitive. With your sensitivity-driven comments you are placing a very negative spin on this whole thing; and this is not what I wanted to achieve.

Whilst I appreciate each and every comment here, please be aware that there might be people who do not agree with you and by means of healthy debate, other insights may be reached.

Have a great day

Werner,

Please read RedPanda's post above, the problem with the written word is that it is difficult to ascertain the emotions behind them. I find it most bizarre that you share that one shouldn't be sensitive, when the topic itself raises potentially sensitive issues? You might be investigating the process, but many of us are living it, daily.

I offered up my issues and defended them, sensitive? Maybe, but they are real issues to me. I've tried to be pragmatic in my responses, as I've done with all my responses.

Like many here I've helped others via these posts, private messages, offered up physical help with LSD's/visitors and provided on the ground support where needed.

Your post count indicates you are fairly new here, as time goes on, you'll learn that I'm pretty matter of fact and am quite comfortable sharing my views.

I can't help but notice the irony though in your signature which reads:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" Edmund Burke

It's for this very reason that I AM involved in the cultural, societal and political conversations here in Australia. As a citizen it's been my duty to do so. To speak out against injustice as is the case with the Aborginal and Boat People issues that face Australia, down to the running of our City and State.

You may or may not know but it is legislated in Australia, as a citizen, that you HAVE to vote, if you don't, you're fined.

In time you will required to form your own views and will need to be ready to defend them. Even today I was dutifully required to vote on the tribunal for the state's 'Fit For The Future Proposal'. Trust me, I welcome healthy debate. I understand that there will often be differences of opinion, but I'm entitled to mine, as you are yours.

If you found my attempt at humour feeble (it was, as the emoticon suggested), I find yours in poor taste, until you've walked our shoes you'll have no idea what many of us have gone through not only in the lead up to our journey, but in the journey and settlement itself, bandying around 'sissies' is not my idea of humour, especially when you are expecting us to share our thoughts with you.

Fear not, this is the last I'll be sharing on this matter and I will be more careful in how I engage with you in the future.

[Mara]

I trust that now that everyone has had their say, we can calm down? AFreshStart, you are right, once WernerS has been here for a while, he should get to know us all a little better. He will understand that we do have lively debates here and hopefully also realise that we do try not to get personal!

[Sunnyskies]

Matt & SunnySkies

The reference to "sissies" is tongue-in-cheek. In other words, an attempt at a little humour to lighten things up a bit. You obviously missed that. Most people would get it, but obviously not you. For that I sincerely apologise....

You should not be so sensitive.

Have a great day

Normally I would just sigh and walk on, but today I'm going to respond.

I suggest you re-read the posts immediately before your "sissie" comment and then re-read your comment. You were not being humorous, and I'm quite frankly quite tired of humouring wise asses. If you were being humorous then yes you failed, you sounded sarcastic.

Anyway, back to my original response, and to quote my 11 year old 'whatever'.

Have a great day.

[Kurkprop]

AFreshStart for PM!!

What is wrong with Oz? In my view at the moment the biggest blot on the landscape is Tony Abbott. His stance on refugees, climate change, women, his treatment of the Commissioner for Human Rights, abolition of the Climate Commission (which now thanks to Crowd Funding has become the Climate Council - eat that Abbott!!), the list goes on and on. And some of his cronies are just as bad, accusing women of 'double dipping' if they receive maternity leave payments from the government as well as from their employers, when Joe Hockey uses his travel allowance to pay off his wife's mortgage when he stays in her House in Canberra. Oh the irony.

[SurferMan]

Well it seems the "grey beards' have weighed in on the tilt of the topic so maybe we can extract some value from the varius exchanges. I for one have learnt two key comms lessons. So thanks for that WernerS and AFreshstart, much obliged.

[Sibella]

I apologise if our financial woes are not serious enough worries for you to commiserate with but I think what you don't quite understand is how easy it is to get into financial trouble here.

Say you suddenly get a toothache and need to go to the dentist for a root canal or whatever, and you get an unexpected $500 water bill because there is an unknown leak somewhere and something serious breaks at your house which is not covered by insurance. And your dog gets bitten by another dog and needs urgent vet treatment which can easily costs thousands of dollars!

This is why the cost of stuff really scares me. Elleneo it's okay if you have only one child (clever you) but with three of them!

One hotel room doesn't cut it (although we still did it last weekend haha) and my eldest at 13 is classed as an adult so just flying to Brisbane costs a lot. We go to a Lutheran private school which is a bit more than Catholic but still affordable, but not x 3! Luckily I spaced them out very well.

Eating out - mummy only has a latte only so the kids can have something to eat. Oh woe I know but where is the joy?!

I feel like I don't want to own my own house anymore - I just want to buy a caravan and travel through Australia because I know someone (on Facebook) with seven kids who does this and they get our tax money every month from benefits - quite ironic - we work our assess off to fund his full time holiday. I still follow their page, it's my own fault for not using the 'system', isn't it?

On the other hand - seven kids, 2 parents and a dog in a caravan!

[Shellfish]

Yes holidays are expensive, but....but.....with saving and planning you can go on overseas holidays that u could never afford had u stayed in SA. Case in point , instead of going back to sa for a holiday we downing Disney,New Orleans and San Francisco ( much to many peoples' irritation but tuffies for them, we have seen South Africa and want to take our little girl to Disneyland...mommy wants to attend a cooking class in New Orleans on Cajun and creole cuisine.

Definitely agree with this. We took a holiday to SF and LA a couple of years ago.

We are hoping to go to Hawaii next year for my 40th - courtesy of frequent flyer points

I apologise if our financial woes are not serious enough worries for you to commiserate with but I think what you don't quite understand is how easy it is to get into financial trouble here.

Say you suddenly get a toothache and need to go to the dentist for a root canal or whatever, and you get an unexpected $500 water bill because there is an unknown leak somewhere and something serious breaks at your house which is not covered by insurance. And your dog gets bitten by another dog and needs urgent vet treatment which can easily costs thousands of dollars!

This is why the cost of stuff really scares me. Elleneo it's okay if you have only one child (clever you) but with three of them!

One hotel room doesn't cut it (although we still did it last weekend haha) and my eldest at 13 is classed as an adult so just flying to Brisbane costs a lot. We go to a Lutheran private school which is a bit more than Catholic but still affordable, but not x 3! Luckily I spaced them out very well.

Eating out - mummy only has a latte only so the kids can have something to eat. Oh woe I know but where is the joy?!

I feel like I don't want to own my own house anymore - I just want to buy a caravan and travel through Australia because I know someone (on Facebook) with seven kids who does this and they get our tax money every month from benefits - quite ironic - we work our assess off to fund his full time holiday. I still follow their page, it's my own fault for not using the 'system', isn't it?

On the other hand - seven kids, 2 parents and a dog in a caravan!

Dentists are eye-wateringly expensive but they aren't exactly free in SA. My FIL in SA had a crown put on last week - I didn't ask the cost but he said the price shocked him.

If you have a water leak, the water company will often reduce the bill with proof from a plumber - it happened to us (FYI).

I tore a ligament in my left knee about 3 months ago. Several visits to emergency, an MRI, a leg brace, 12 weeks of physio and so far it has cost me $25 for pain meds - that doesn't happen in SA. It works both ways.

Many of my friends in SA have one child, and the reason is that they can't afford to have any more. The truth is that to send a child to a private school in Aus is a choice - it's not in SA, it's a necessity.

[Riekie]

Werner, comparing the good and bad of Australia vs South-Africa is not a good way of making a choice. Ask yourself WHY you want to leave and would you have that same "problem" in Australia. There is no Utopia.

[elleneo]

Yes I only have one child after 9 years of trying for another it doesn't look like it's going to happen for me...

Psych!!..lucky you I planned ( so far ) to stick to one, but...

Seriously don't presume people with one child have only one by choice, you could be hurting some serious feelings. I have a friend with one child who has been trying for 10 years to get pregnant, all the money in the world but no money can get you pregant.

No one told you to have 3 kids, and I presume you are a woman of intelligence so you had them knowing the costs involved?

But yes...its expensive living in Australia, but I agree with riekie, ask yourself why you want to leave? If it's for safety, better future for your kids ( or at least an easier one), good free medical care, a safe place to grow old when you retire? Nice weather..then Australia is for you.

[OubaasDik]

AFreshStart for PM!!

What is wrong with Oz? In my view at the moment the biggest blot on the landscape is Tony Abbott. His stance on refugees, climate change, women, his treatment of the Commissioner for Human Rights, abolition of the Climate Commission (which now thanks to Crowd Funding has become the Climate Council - eat that Abbott!!), the list goes on and on. And some of his cronies are just as bad, accusing women of 'double dipping' if they receive maternity leave payments from the government as well as from their employers, when Joe Hockey uses his travel allowance to pay off his wife's mortgage when he stays in her House in Canberra. Oh the irony.

Well, Kurkprop, it's really lucky it's so cold in Canberra at the moment, because you have your hate to keep you warm ....

Also it's nice that people who want certain things (climate commission) actually pay for them - so I doubt you're spiting him, even though your message seems defiant.

Also - BTW - Always assume that your prejudices / political views are the the norm, even if they aren't. It's the Australian way (if you're a leftie) See above.

[ottg]

I have to link two comments which is controversial but true:

when Joe Hockey uses his travel allowance to pay off his wife's mortgage when he stays in her House in Canberra. Oh the irony.

...and the answer?

it's my own fault for not using the 'system', isn't it?

Just a thought!!

[Sassyninja]

Back to the topic: I want to know more about this Australian drug issue...I believe it's getting out of hand, is this true? And is it worse than SA? Honestly?

[Mara]

Where you find people, you will find a drug , in this day and age. I do not think there is anywhere in the world that you can escape from it.

[Sassyninja]

Referring to this article :

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-32200684

Where 1 in 14 in Aus have tried crystal meth - surely that is high in any country?

"According to a 2013 National Drug Strategy Household Survey, 7% of the Australian population aged 14 years or older have reported using amphetamine or methamphetamine at least once in their lifetime."

[Sunnyskies]

Drugs

They were our big fear 7 years ago too when we were where you are now.

Yes, you hear lots about ice

. I hope it never touches us. I educate my children all the time about drugs. My fears are no different to what they were in South Africa. I pray I never have to deal with the consequences of drug abuse.

Reality is that your children are in equal danger from drugs in both countries.