Is Future For South Afrcia Realy That Bad?

[Eto]

Hi All,

Just thought that I should bounce this off everyone and see what reaction I get, as I see a very different picture when comparing what I read in the news versus what I experience on a daily basis out in the streets of Port Elizabeth.

In most cases I am greeted with smiles when I walk the streets or go shopping. The workplace is very similar as well from tea lady to management and in general I get the feeling that many are trying to make it work even when the odds are against us.

Shopping centres are popping up all around us with the biggest and latest one (Baywest) that opened yesterday. Stunning ctr and probably best compared with Canal Walk in Cape Town I guess.

Yes we all know about load shedding, municipalities that are broke due to corruption, quality of water and schooling on a down, BBBEEEEEEEEE..... gees it sounds like I already answered my own question . However, I always get that feeling that things could actually work and turn out for the better in the long run.

Racing through my mind at present is the question.....do I sit it out in RSA and spend the time with my family and friends or do we pack and leave and start a new life in Australia? This means no more time with family and we are all very aware of how important this becomes once the grand kids arrive, once our parents are old and need help.

Not sure if anybody agrees, but it would be great to hear what your thoughts are.

Many thanks.

Eto

[Rhyss]

@ JuliaClare: Sorry if my statement sometimes makes you feel annoyed, I am not sure how else to put it.

My eldest sister, who is dependent on the younger sister, lives in lala land and if you listen to her, then living in RSA is like nirvana. On speaking to the younger sister, who still works, supports them both, owns property etc, about this one day, her comment was, if she had to face reality, she would probably have a nervous breakdown. When I questioned that, she told me that the older sister once asked, "what happens to me if you die?". That is the part that scares me about them living in RSA.

For the younger sister, I know for a fact that she would give whatever she had, to live in Australia.. I so wish there was a way I could bring them here, but alas, there isn't. She had a great opportunity, some fifteen years ago, but at the time, for a silly reason (my feeling and now hers) she decided not to take the opportunity. Now she is way too old. Upon her son's death, her daughter in law moved back to the UK, so all that is left for her, is to travel overseas to visit her only grandchild and to visit me. She has told me that there is not a day that goes by that she does not berate herself for not taking the opportunity!

So... my five cents worth, if you have a visa, and you do not make use of it, then I am almost certain that the time will come where you say to yourself "what did we do?", unfortunately it will then probably be too late to go anywhere and if you have children, they will probably be living elsewhere in the world... imagine just seeing them, if you are lucky, only once a year?

they say hind sight is 20/20 vision

[elleneo]

I think you need to ask yourself how badly you want a change? Is your lifestyle in South Africa really that secure? Yes moving is hard, yes it takes guts to move without a job waiting, what hit home for us was when someone told me to not worry about where you live but worry about when you will grow old and die.

We decided to take our chances and move, no job waiting, no lsd trip.

I can say with confidence I'm not scared of growing old in aus.

Edited May 24, 2015 by elleneo

[MomOfTwo]

We are doing it for our child. If we don't do it, he might one day leave us behind... and that would be much worse for me.

I agree on not dwelling on the past and problems of SA once you are in Australia. It is a new beginning and rather use the time to learn more about Oz and make it your new home than focusing on issues that does not affect you anymore. It may be easy for me to say now, but that is the attitude I am going with...even if I have to fake it, till I make it.

I do not think that Oz will ever truly feel like home to me, but I want my son to feel that way and that is why I want to emigrate now while he is still young. I think the next 10 years, we could easily still live a good and comfortable life, but my son may not in years to come.

Jy het die spyker op die kop geslaan... this is exactly how i feel...i could easily stay in SA for the rest of my life (even though currently i am in canada) ....i would make it work and i would make work for my hubby by putting up all the security measures in the world and then some...and then i will just enjoy life until maybe one day my luck runs out but at least i will be with my family. BUT we left due to the fact we saw things are going bad to quickly for our likings and thought ok, lets go expatting for a few years until its better....6 years later it is even worse...AND NOW i have Kids....and i feel the same way...it will break my heart if my kids left me due to the situation in SA! I know it will because it is very hard on my parents. They are missing out on seeing there grand kids grow up etc. I don't want to be in there shoes and I feel that if you raise your kids in a country where they feel save and they don't have to stress about actually finding a job, they won't want to leave and immigrate. I mean, how many Aussies actually immigrate?? Yes they do expat work, I know, as i have many aussie expat friends, but they return. No doubt. And this is why even though it breaks my heart not seeing my family all the time anymore, i have to be honest and realistic, my parents won't be there forever, as harsh as it might sound, but my kids and their futures are still generations to come. I would want my parents to come as well and will probably see how i can do that but for now i need to put my kids futures 1st priority because like someone mentioned above, time might run out for Saffas to get entry into Aus. And Canada is cold trust me :-)

[monsta]

Good answer @MomOfTwo

I am in the same boat. I do love South Africa and I would move there in a heart beat. The problem is things like retirement. Properties in good neighbourhoods aren't cheap. Good schools aren't cheap. What if I am forced to retire art 60 due to AA? The decline in the currency means you need to save that much more each month. That could become a serious problem for me one day.

South Africa is great, but I am not willing to take big risks like that.

[SurferMan]

@Craig01,

In principle I would agree. But having a gung-ho attitude to work can also harm, unintentionally. If you went from managing multi-million dollar projects to flipping burgers and then try get back in the game, I can assure you it would not be easy. But you are right on the job front, if you have a positive attitude you can get some form of an income.

And in my case I have not found work in my line for 6 months, so I am a real world example of what you say you won't buy as an arguement.

I did sign up for doing the kinds of tasks you listed, and guess what, not a single phone call in all that time. So in the real world that does happen. That is one of the main reasons I am moving to Brissie. At a push I can even commute Mon/Fri to Melbourne/Sydney/etc.

Or just move there cos we home school anyways. Perth is dying at a rate of knots. 1 room apartments in the Pilbara were renting for $1000/week a year ago, are now open for $350/week and have 60% vacancy rates. I know this cos I have family doing it.

I know many in IT that go 3-9 months between jobs in Perth. Over east it is a lot better. One of the guys who was a manager at a client of mine, got the sack and between July 2014 and now has moved jobs 5 times. All due to redundancy/downsizing/closing. I sign up for a 3 month contract tomorrow with no current prospect of renewal. (Until I impress them, I hope!) If I get a renewal, great, I will stay in Perth a bit longer. But the very week I finish up, we will up stumps and move to Brisbane.

Here is a copy n paste from a good BA mate of mine, from her Linkedin site....

Sabbatical HomeApril 2014

–

April 2015

(1 year 1 month)Perth Area, Australia

Edited May 24, 2015 by SurferMan

[MomOfTwo]

Good answer @MomOfTwo

I am in the same boat. I do love South Africa and I would move there in a heart beat. The problem is things like retirement. Properties in good neighbourhoods aren't cheap. Good schools aren't cheap. What if I am forced to retire art 60 due to AA? The decline in the currency means you need to save that much more each month. That could become a serious problem for me one day.

South Africa is great, but I am not willing to take big risks like that.

And lets not forget if you loose your job like so many experience you still need to pay the likes of medical aid and schools, which puts so much pressure on a family, beside the pressure of actually finding a job!!!!

[Rhyss]

I can relate to a story where one side of a family decided to emigrate to Aus, the other stayed in SA. My brother in-law, his brother and Dad ran a small mechanical services business in SA. About 12 years ago my BIL decided that he wanted to give his kids a better future, a better chance in life so with his trade qualification and his wife being a teacher they entered Aus via the skilled visa route. We were here to welcome them! His brother stayed in SA and took over the business. They both have 2 kids of similar ages, my BIL has a son and daughter, his brother in SA has 2 sons.

Fast forward 12 years. The family in Aus settled quickly, got jobs and bought a house, kids went to local government school and life was/is good. Both kids completed YR12 and son (now 23yrs old) works at a Telstra shop selling mobile phone packages. Daughter is 20yrs old and doing a hairdressing apprenticeship.

The brother in SA continued with the business which by all accounts has done very well. They own a lovely house, business premises, wife does not work and their parents have retired. The parents now well in their late 60’s spend a lot of time touring in SA, Namibia, Botswana, Zim etc visiting game parks. The brother in SA sent both his boys to university. The oldest is a qualified as an architect and received 3 job offers out of the 4 that he applied for. The youngest son recently qualified as a Quantity Surveyor and received a job offer with one of the major construction companies straight out of university.

We were chatting about the outcome of these two families over dinner on Sat night. The feeling was that in Aus, average is okay but in SA average is not okay. In SA it’s not acceptable to send your kid to work in a cell phone shop whereas in Oz it’s okay, you’ll be average and average is okay….for now!

PS! The folks we were having dinner with are 3rd generation Aussies. The ladies mom who's in her late 70's is requiring frail care. Please, don't for one second think this is a free or easy service to get for a needy pensioner in Aus! The family is forking out huge sums to keep the old lady in care! Retiring in Aus.....do your sums VERY carefully!

Edited May 25, 2015 by Rhyss

[Mara]

@ Rhyss: I have to comment about the kids in Australia that did hairdressing and working in a cell phone shop! Surely this was their choice? I guess nobody forced them to do so? However, if they had wanted to go to university and study, they, as Australian citizens (by now, I guess) would have been entitled to a government loan to do so... for me the comparison in this case, does not compute!

However, having said that, I do agree that in RSA we all encouraged our kids to work hard and study hard (for which we paid) in order to even have a chance at making it. The funny part is, that in Australia, the artisans that studied a trade, are often more sort after.

[Rhyss]

@Mara: Maybe you've missed my point. In Aus it's acceptable to be "okay" you do not have to push yourself very hard, in fact you do not have to push yourself at all. That's fine, I'm not judging anyone but I doubt the 23yr old working in a cell phone shop dreamed all his life of a career in Telstra retail? But that suites some people and quite clearly it works for most Aussies and those Saffas who arrive here and look to the social welfare system. If you fail at what you do you get another chance, if you excel at what you do you do not earn much more than those who just do "okay". Have you heard of the tall poppy syndrome? If you don't try hard enough and give up, well then there's always those concessions, free medical, rental assistance etc to top you up so you don't get left behind the hard workers! I popped in at a pharmacy a few weeks ago in Perth to get some antihistamines. There were 5 people including me in the queue and I was the only one who did not have a concession card of some sort! Even in the national sport, AFL you get a point for simply trying to kick a 6 point goal and missing...there's two sets of poles

In SA kids (many kids) realise that there is no fall-back, no soft landing so you gotta put in the effort. Life in SA as a salesman in a cell phone shop will not set you up for a retirement plan or even home ownership. Here in Aus it's okay, someone will pick you up. BTW you also pay for your tertiary education in Aus, it's a loan from the government which you pay back when you start working and earning. My feeling is that this is a HUGE waste of tax payers money and the process of HECS should be managed differently but that's for another discussion!

To get back on point, no the future in SA is not that bad. If you're entrepreneurial, qualified, hard working and prepared to take a chance then SA will provide opportunity. However if you think you'll need a welfare handout or a cushioned landing then SA is probably not for you

Edited May 25, 2015 by Rhyss

[Mara]

@ Rhyss: I think then that your explanation may be misconstrued. Doing "okay" may just be what some kids want, bully for them, it is their lives to do with as they please, not all of us are equipped to chase the eternal $. At least here they can earn a reasonable living doing "okay"... in RSA they would be going hungry.

Of course uni students have to pay back their loans, that is to be accepted, BUT, if they were in RSA and their parents could not afford to pay for them, they would just have to be happy with "okay"! I know what I am talking about, we have put two sons through university, the eldest for three degrees and the youngster for one... all paid by us! Our sons were fortunate, we could afford to pay the price. I have family whose children could not attend, because their parents could not afford the fees.

What has made me chuckle is that our youngest son, even after attaining his BSc (Comp), he decided after 12 years that he disliked the industry intensely, today he works as an artisan in Australia, earning a six figure salary... and no... he has nothing to do with the mines.

"To get back on point, no the future in SA is not that bad. If you're entrepreneurial, qualified, hard working and prepared to take a chance then SA will provide opportunity. However if you think you'll need a welfare handout or a cushioned landing then SA is probably not for you "

If I interpret your above statement correctly, then the smart folk would stay in RSA and the down and outs should head to Australia... I am happy for you that your opinion is that the future in RSA is not that bad, I trust you are still there and not planning on moving to Australia?

It has always been said, only the very strong will get through the migration situation, unscathed! I am so glad that there are so many of us that do not think like you do. We have been here for 18 years, and we have never needed a handout, but if we ever should, then I am very thankful that there will be a door to knock on!

[Rhyss]

Mara, it's from accepting the "doing okay" mentality that Australia needs a $146 Billion welfare budget pa! If more was expected from individuals then maybe less could be spent on welfare and more on paying national debt!

You're right, nothing wrong with being a tradesman in Australia....for now! I know, I employ 28 of them in Oz and 15 in SA! With the skills shortage amongst tradesmen and everyone qualifying for soft government (tax payer) loans to hangout at university to study a degree that they will probably never use there is undoubtedly a great opportunity for tradesmen. Add into this the demand of the trades guys on the mines and the gap between supply and demand is even wider. That is until the tradies from the mines have a reality check and realise that they will need to take a salary bath. I pay some of my tradesmen here in Aus 6 figure salaries and I can assure you that no tradesman is worth that kind of money! Right now the employers are being bent over but watch this space. If your son is on wages and earning 6 figures tell him to be smart and save, he'll need it!

I suppose I'm fortunate in that I can view this discussion from both sides of the table. I currently live in Aus and have for the lat 15 years (that's almost as long as you ). In 2010 we opened a service division in SA. Our bottom line is far more profitable and I believe that in the next few years the SA business will be bigger than the Aus business.

IMO there's no real incentive for the youngsters in Aus to be achievers. There's too much to fall back on and complacency does not breed the next generation of entrepreneurs, hard workers or savers. $146 Billion, that's a lot of tax payers money!!

So, to answer the question that sparked off the debate:

Is Future For South Afrcia Realy That Bad?

Here's a vid https://youtu.be/nGMaH_JPcEY

Edited May 25, 2015 by Rhyss

[rozellem]

I am actually so over RSA and her trappings that make people think they are better than others. Even though a lot of the stuff is bought on credit. I am a hairdresser and coming from a middle class background people in RSA thought it was a rebellious phase I was going through. It is still the only country I have been to (43 and counting...) where I was asked what school I attended and what was the highest standard/grade I achieved. The mind boggles to think what kind of box the guy was trying to fit me in. If we have to talk about $$$ I can safely report that, with property in London and Sydney, I have done better than a lot of people who have never swept a hairy floor The global financial markets has its ebs and flows, but one thing is a given, HAIR GROWS!

[FairGo]

Oh boy, oh boy. Things have so changed on this side.

Even if you can afford your child to go to university, it is not guaranteed they will get accepted for the course they want to study...

This is an old 2011 article, but things have definitely not changed or improved since then.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2011/05/19/medical-schools-race-bar

My brother is 10 years younger than me. When I went to varsity, the fees were 13k for the year. My parent paid 22k for him and his flat costs an arm and a leg.

70% of his fellow high school students did not go to varsity. What will become of them?

There are also strikes at SA Universities that disrupts classes and obviously negatively impacts students' marks. My SIL is a lecturer. Some days she stays at home because the strikes are so violent! It’s not a story I heard from someone’s tannie se oom se sussie se niggie, its close family.

Best of all, getting a promotion is much harder as new appointments are EE. Businesses need to have a certain BEE rating to get government contracts.

You will only get promoted until a certain level and that’s it. Economy is down and a nice way for companies to save money is to cut back on salaries, so you work your butt off and must be grateful to just have a job.

We have a six figure household income with only one child. We do not live a "luxury" life, comfortable i.e. a roof over our head and food each day. Yes I can shop at Woollies and pay for my son to be in a good school, but we do not drive brand new cars, stay in the best estate or go out to dinner each week. I often think, how much does one have to earn to have a good life? I am so tired of stressing about tomorrow.

And it is so lekker to pay your high monthly utilities bill due to ridiculous Eskom increases, have load shedding, sit in traffic because traffic light is not working and get home and not able to watch Dstv that you pay R800 for or make dinner. 5 months ago, I bought a whole lamb, which I had to toss in the bin because the electricity was off for too long.

You have to pay for everything! We are paying a premium for security for our house in a boomed off street with 24 hour security which is an absolutely must these days. My husband only goes cycling on tracks that are fenced, obviously he has to pay entrance and the latest is to steel cyclist bikes.

http://rekordnorth.co.za/37781/danish-cyclist-attack-and-robbed-at-voortrekker-monument/

I am up to date with prices for grocery shopping and let me tell you, prices for products go up every 2 - 3 months with R2 - R10. Each year you are "poorer" than the previous. Your 10% increase each year aint cutting it! And that being said, your pension that you think is now okay, is not going to be worth much by the time you retire.

Last week on Carte blanche, program on Mnet, showed a lady being abused in old age home. Family was paying something like R14k a month, so supposed to be one of your better old age homes...

Every robot has a beggar. A lot of them, old people collecting money for their old age home and each time I drive by them, the thought goes through my mind, what if that is me or my son one day? If a white man in his 50's is retrenched, it is very hard for him to find a job.

My husband did not have a job for three months one years ago, let me tell you, after 5 interviews that they told him it is EE vacancies, it scares the crap out of you! Here are no handouts, so you will be living on the street if you have no income.

Yesterday I had my, "enough is enough moment". We were driving when a police helicopter circled close by, which usually means they are searching for a criminal on the run and I took my son out of his car seat in case we got hijacked. Last week they hijacked a car and stabbed the toddler.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2015/05/18/Five-year-old-boy-stabbed-by-Boksburg-hijackers

I am the average Joe so this is my reality.

This was supposed to be a 2 paragraph post that turned into a rant and rave. (It’s Monday, okay)

And yes there are positives in this country, but at the moment the negatives are out weighing them by far for me.

(Admin can delete if post is inappropriate)

Edited May 25, 2015 by MelJ

[Rhyss]

or you could just move to the Western Cape http://www.biznews.com/thought-leaders/2015/05/21/colin-byrne-why-the-cape-is-far-better-than-jozi/

[FairGo]

Lol, so funny because we did move to Cape town for 10 months... That is where my husband did not have a job for 3 months! Position was made redundant.

Traffic is much worse. We stayed in Blouberg, worked in CBD. Drove 3 hours a day. And I am not exaggerating. My nails have never looked so good as in those 10 months. Did them while in traffic.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/N1-N2-virtual-parking-lots-in-peak-traffic-20150510

Yes, the DA is the governing party...but for how long?

Edited May 25, 2015 by MelJ

[funtobeaussiechick]

Rhyss, I think you miss the reason we mostly leave, too much crime, corruption, govt dept useless. And not all kids are UNI material. I for one feel that the weight is off here, psychological stress of traffic, hijackings, murder, home invasions etc....My kids were tired of armed response, locking everything everywhere all the time. Its NOT normal. A few near death experiences were enough for me. Thank you but no thank you too much of a gap between haves and have nots.

Its all ok until something happens. In SA my neighbour got shot 2 weeks before I left for Aus. I would bet if he could have upped sticks and come here he would have. I am just wondering why lots of money is more important than feeling safe

[funtobeaussiechick]

I can relate to a story where one side of a family decided to emigrate to Aus, the other stayed in SA. My brother in-law, his brother and Dad ran a small mechanical services business in SA. About 12 years ago my BIL decided that he wanted to give his kids a better future, a better chance in life so with his trade qualification and his wife being a teacher they entered Aus via the skilled visa route. We were here to welcome them! His brother stayed in SA and took over the business. They both have 2 kids of similar ages, my BIL has a son and daughter, his brother in SA has 2 sons.

Fast forward 12 years. The family in Aus settled quickly, got jobs and bought a house, kids went to local government school and life was/is good. Both kids completed YR12 and son (now 23yrs old) works at a Telstra shop selling mobile phone packages. Daughter is 20yrs old and doing a hairdressing apprenticeship.

The brother in SA continued with the business which by all accounts has done very well. They own a lovely house, business premises, wife does not work and their parents have retired. The parents now well in their late 60’s spend a lot of time touring in SA, Namibia, Botswana, Zim etc visiting game parks. The brother in SA sent both his boys to university. The oldest is a qualified as an architect and received 3 job offers out of the 4 that he applied for. The youngest son recently qualified as a Quantity Surveyor and received a job offer with one of the major construction companies straight out of university.

We were chatting about the outcome of these two families over dinner on Sat night. The feeling was that in Aus, average is okay but in SA average is not okay. In SA it’s not acceptable to send your kid to work in a cell phone shop whereas in Oz it’s okay, you’ll be average and average is okay….for now!

PS! The folks we were having dinner with are 3rd generation Aussies. The ladies mom who's in her late 70's is requiring frail care. Please, don't for one second think this is a free or easy service to get for a needy pensioner in Aus! The family is forking out huge sums to keep the old lady in care! Retiring in Aus.....do your sums VERY carefully!

Honestly I find this a SA is better than Oz mentality. What about the kids in SA who do not make it to University, not everyone does. Its a ridiculous comparison saying the kids in SA went to Uni and er well the ones in Oz did not due to it being ok to be average. This is far removed from what I experience. A lot of kids go to Uni here. I will be sending my kids to University in Oz, of that I am sure. I also feel that it is ok to not go to Uni if you are not suited to it, why the comparison to your family in SA? Half my family in SA did not go to uni and the other half did. Whatever happened to safety, security, govt dept working, no load shedding, happiness???? I know which one I would rather choose

[Mara]

@ Rhyss: Perhaps you could run for government office and sort out the wasting of our money!

Fortunately for me, unlike you, I am a believer of "I cried because I had no shoes, till I saw a man who had no feet!"

22 years and counting, I am still paying it forward, and I will be doing so for the rest of my days! I have so much to be thankful for that I would feel guilty to stop holding out my hand to assist someone in need!

Life is not about a big house, the latest car, or the designer clothes, life is about showing compassion for those in need.

You complain about all the no good people that live on handouts in Australia... so... please tell me what is the South African government doing? At least here it allows people to survive, there it only makes the fat cats in government fatter!

With that I have had my say... I will move on.

[HappyIsland]

Ok, here's my input. I've personally weighed up the pros and cons many many times.

BEE

If you're a white South African, you are now experiencing racism. If you currently hold a job, keep it, cause chances are very slim that you'll get a job easily again in the future.
I have had 3 bosses in the IT field, and all 3 of them are sitting without a job and unable to find another one due to BEE.

If this is the situation today, given how difficult it has become the secure employment in the last 3-5 years alone, what chance do we have for secure employment in the next 5-10 years,.

What chance does my 2 year old son have in 16 years when he finishes school?

I had to start my own business as a result of not being able to find employment in corporate environments any more. 5 Years ago I could walk out of a job 1 day, and literally walk into another job the next day, with 3 or 4 offers on the table. (IT field). Today, I will be extremely lucky if I am able to secure a job at all. Many people are sitting comfortably in corporate jobs, not realizing that if they had to leave or lose their job, how difficult it would be to secure employment again. Things have changed quickly over 5 years.

Universities.
BEE again. Both my business partners wanted to send their kids to go study medical degrees. Neither one of their kids got in due to BEE, and they upper 80's lower 90's %

Of course , due to BEE the BEE candidates are able to go and study medical degrees with a much much lower pass rate. Again, what future is there for our kids?

Crime.

People are getting slaughtered. Farmers are getting murdered on a daily basis. Everyone has a family member or a friend that has either been killed or has been a victim of violent crime in SA. Yet, it has become our norm, we are so accustomed to it that farm murders, hijackings, violent murders, rapes, etc. does not even get reported in the news. It's our daily normal, and the crime statistics are getting worse and worse with SA as one of the most violent countries to live in.

Accountability

Run a pedestrian over while driving drunk? No problem, the tow service will just come and clean up and off you go. Simple as that, no accountability. That's just one example.
Corruption : No accountability
Crime : No accountability

Collapse
Name any parastatal or public service. They have all collapsed. The police, hospitals, public transport network, eskom, telkom. They have all collapsed and those that have not been collapsed through incompitence or corruption are being plundered to collapse.

Crime
The prisons are severely overcrowded. There's no space for more prisoners. We don't have a functioning police service either. Crime is running rampant with no accountability, no law / order, and if you do get sent to prison you are out in a day or 2 as there's no space in prisons.
The statistics say that as a farmer you are twice as likely to die than a police officer (Carte Blanche source).
We are all at risk of crime. I simply refuse to accept the level of crime and what is going on here as normal. People are being attacked on highways, bricks are thrown through windows on national highways on a daily basis, and if you survive that they rape you and shoot you when they're done.
The N2 highway near the airport in CT has become a no go zone early mornings and at night. People get attacked and killed here on a daily basis. It's a known fact that if you break down or stop on this highway you are as good as dead. The mentality is pretty much they kill you and then they leave with a few rands or a cellphone.

The same can be said for pretty much any other highway in SA near a squatter camp.

We have become so numb to this, it's just a way of life, we all accept it. It's crazy.

Land grabs
It's happening, just like it started in Zimbabwe. Zim also started with 50% land distribution. When they got the first 50% of farms they came back for the rest.
SA is now in the process of redistributing 50% of select farms to farm workers. Just like BEE, this system is being implemented in stages. The first few years they go easy, next year it's more farms and more provinces, and in a few years they will come for the other 50%.

Once the concept of land ownership goes out the window, things start sliding quickly. If land doesn't have value, currency doesn't have value either. When this reaches breaking point, the currency system collapses suddenly like it did in Zim and many other african countries.

Private Property at risk
Together with the land grabs of farms, provision has been made to redistribute private property. The ANC has assured us that they have no interest in redistributing private property now, but this is the way of the ANC. (As if anyone would take the ANC's assurances seriously.)
BEE, Farm land grabs and everything else starts slowly, under covers.
You can be sure that once the land redistribution (a nice word for a ugly term called land grabs) are well under way, they'll be coming for the houses.
Wake up people, wipe your eyes and see what is coming down the line.

Strikes, Foreign companies
Read the news. The ongoing strikes have done permanent damage to various industries in the country. Big industries where thousands of jobs have been lost. Several big international companies have closed shop in SA, with many more following suit. The loss in future investment is immeasurable as any sane company will not consider investing here in the future.

Foreign Property
Foreigners can no longer purchase South African property. Law passed. Implemented, done.

Xenophobia.
Other countries are taking note of this, just like they took note of the strikes.

Reality

At which point do people admit that South Africa has already collapsed? People are still waiting around and asking if we are going to collapse. If everything in the country is broken, no longer working and collapsed, yet you think the country hasn't collapsed, you are living in denial.

Zimbabwe and the rest of Africa : History as a predictor of the future

If anyone is unsure of the fate of SA, simply look at Zimbabwe and the rest of Africa. What were the biggest mistakes that lead to collapse in Zimbabwe and ALL African countries.
The main ones are corruption, plundering, and land grabs.
South Africa has all of them. In many ways we are worse off as we have BEE, violent crime, strikes and several other issues that Zimbabwe and other countries never had.

Whenever I discuss the future of SA with people, I inevitably hear someone saying : "I somehow think South Africa will not end up like Zimbabwe or the rest of Africa". That makes no sense to me at all, as when you look at the facts objectively there is no way you can agree with that.

No future for our Kids

My wife and I used to accept things as they are, we just got on with daily life.

Now that we have a child we realize that there is absolutely no future for him at all here.

Worse even, will we be able to provide for him : if we are not murdered, will we be able to provide financially for him as it has become so difficult for people to find jobs due to BEE. And if he does make it to university with both of us still around, will he be able to study, and when he does manage to study what's the chances of him finding a job as a non BEE candidate in 18 years time?

All these people in SA who send their kids to private schools. It's a fruitless exercise. It doesn't matter how fancy the school is your child goes to. If he is not a BEE candidate, he will be severely restricted when it comes time to study for a medical degree or many other programmes as they hardly let in non BEE candidates.

When it comes time to find a job, all the money you spent on private schooling will be lost unless your child is a BEE candidate.

Like MelJ said on an earlier post in this thread :

"We are doing it for our child. If we don't do it, he might one day leave us behind... and that would be much worse for me."

Sadly, SA is a failed state. Anyone living outside of South Africa can see this.

South Africa is hanging by a thread. Everything has just about collapsed. The only thing left to go is the complete demise of the currency (AKA The African story). That won't happen till the very end, when there is a sudden collapse, usuaully brought on as a result of a financial collapse and followed by violence and people fleeing the country.

The African Way

In many ways I feel that African countries never really collapse. They simply return to an African way of operating. We are all looking at Africa and South Africa from a western point of view, with our own standards, outlooks, and cultural viewpoints.

Perhaps expecting first world standards for an African country is wrong.
Jacob Zuma himself said that this is Africa and there is an African way which is not the way of the western world. Perhaps, what we perceive as failed, corrupt and collapsed is just a normal way of living for people in Africa.

Whichever way it might be, one thing is for certain. There is no future for me or my family in South Africa.

Edited May 25, 2015 by HappyIsland

[SurferMan]

Wow HappyIsland,

Those are precisely the things that drove me out of SA. And I predicted the land/BEE/collapse some 10 years back. People laughed at me when I said JZ would be the next president, during his dismissal. My words were, only God or a bullet would stop him becoming the next Pres. I predicted the land grabs, as you pointed out, it happended in all the other African states. I am amazed how people can see that violence, discrimination based on race, collapse of all institutions and still think it's all peachy.

That place just needs another bump and it will all collapse. Not an all out drop, but watch the pattern. I smiled when I saw the "dimand" for an 84% wage increase. Imagine you asked for that in the US or here in Aus. Your boss would laugh at you. But as you say, JZ tells us Africa is for Africans, not westerners. Funny thing is, he never built Nkandla with sticks, mud and stones. No sir, only the best Wenstern bullet proof glass, armoured wall shielding, aircons etc. Oh, I am pretty well read on Zulu history, and even Chaka never had a fire pool. He must be turning in his grave as we speak in envy. Uses every state implement he can to avoid jail. Yeah, he seems to enjoy the trappings of western culture methinks.

I really hope his ass gets tossed in the can. but no doubt he will "Cut a deal" and be let off.

[monsta]

@Surferman. You have it all wrong. If it wasn't for westerners inventing the musket, Jz would have no need to spend money on bullet proof glass.

A relatively cheap price of leather would stop most Zulu spears. So, clearly Westerners are the problem here.

Add to that Westerners taught people that it's OK to question your leadership. But, Western medicine has yet to come up with a cure for a headache. I wouldn't be surprised if after you have been booed off stage, a panado won't do much.

The least western science could do is give Jz's family a heated pool and satellite TV.

Edited May 25, 2015 by monsta

[SurferMan]

@monsta,

PMSL. Good one mate. I am stunned at how many court cases he has managed to dodge over the years. For me though, the big one is his complicity in the Camp Quatro killings.

[Rhyss]

I really relate to this post. The question of whether or not SA will improve dominates my thinking. We live in SA and our PR visa expires next year. The main thing stopping us from moving right away is employment. - we simply are not at the stage in life where we can afford to move to australia without secured employment.

If we don't find employment, do we let our visa lapse? Or do we take it up, give up what security we have here only to face financial stress in Australia and the feeling that you 'never quite got on your feet'

In my everyday life I also see good, happy people trying their best to get ahead. There are Fancy shopping centres and petrol stations springing up. A very smart black middle class is emerging. And it's great to see. But then i read about all the horrors of bee, crime, corruption, the increasing reverse racism etc etc and I feel fearful about the future.

I think If you have lots of money, can live like a wealthy ex pat, in your own country, be independent of government services, monied enough to send your children abroad to study, and ensure yourself a cushy retirement, ( with your back up British or whatever passport tucked in your pocket) Then it's okay to stay.

But if not ...

I don't know, it's all so confusing !!!

I find this post from JuliaClaire really interesting. They have security and happiness in SA and even visas to live and work in Aus but they are unsure about their financial future in Aus. They risk leaving behind security.

What some folks (like Mara and Surferman) do not understand (or do not want to believe) is that there are many people in SA, white folks with kids who have jobs, lead good lives and are surrounded by family, friends and everything familiar and dear to them, yes they are happy, can you believe it HAPPY!

We can all draw up a list of the many reasons why we should hate SA and why we wish we could save all those poor white souls destined for the a life of suffering and misery. Some even make lists showing AA, BEE, corruption, crime and not to forget making and sharing jokes on social media about load shedding and Zuma's 10th wife or single out a Carte Blanche documentary about abuse in old ages homes and all of a sudden that's the norm in SA. Forget the good stuff focus on the bad stuff. I know, I did the same thing 15 years ago and if this helps to make those who chose to move abroad away from their family and friends to feel better about themselves (and their decision) then good on them, no one denies them happiness. But despite these challenges there are many folks (yes white folks) who choose to live in SA. My attitude changed when I started looking at it through their eyes, listening to their passion and understanding their side of the story. I found myself falling in love with SA all over again. The beauty, the people with their many different cultures, the vibe and then I started to see the opportunities. That was 5 years ago and today I feel more proud of being South African than ever before.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Rhyss

[Rhyss]

Lol, so funny because we did move to Cape town for 10 months... That is where my husband did not have a job for 3 months! Position was made redundant.

Traffic is much worse. We stayed in Blouberg, worked in CBD. Drove 3 hours a day. And I am not exaggerating. My nails have never looked so good as in those 10 months. Did them while in traffic.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/N1-N2-virtual-parking-lots-in-peak-traffic-20150510

Yes, the DA is the governing party...but for how long?

MelJ, you could have caught the My Citi bus from Blouberg right into the City! It's very popular, safe, convenient, cheap and no parking hassles. You could have read a book and done your nails.

PS! If you live in a major city in Aus like Melbourne or Sydney you better brace yourself for much more time consuming and expensive commute...hello toll gates!

Edited May 26, 2015 by Rhyss

[HansaPlease]

MelJ, you could have caught the My Citi bus from Blouberg right into the City! It's very popular, safe, convenient, cheap and no parking hassles. You could have read a book and done your nails.

PS! If you live in a major city in Aus like Melbourne or Sydney you better brace yourself for much more time consuming and expensive commute...hello toll gates!

That's good, but let's not pretend that Public Transport in SA is something it's not. If you finish work late at night, would you be safe to walk from your office to the bus station and from the bus station to your house alone?

Also, R25 gets you a return ticket on that bus.

In Melbourne, R70 a day lets me travel on any bus, tram or train anywhere in Melbourne ALL day.