what don't you like about Aus?

[Johnno]

You have lost me, that is a great article on drugs and how the police are doing lots to hammer it down, they say that they are seizing more drugs than every before, thanks for agreeing that the police are doing a better job than every before?

We have however been talking about Vehicle and property crime up until now, i take the change of subject is your way of telling me that you agree crime is on the decrease and you have no further comments to add to the debate?

PS. if you cant handle the great job that the police have been doing on significantly cutting down on crime since 2000 then perhaps you should complain to the Australian Crime Commission and also ask the Victorian police to stop doing such a great job, the crime wave is leaving you behind......

Come on admit it, crime is auz is at some of the lowest levels in 10 years and the cops are doing a great job......

the only stats that you have quoted were out of date by two years which is about as long as you've been in Aus. The thread is not about vehicle or property crime (which BTW are both up in Victoria)

Illicit drugs whether using, selling, distributing or manufacturing is all considered crime, a serious crime and crime is what this thread seems to be leaning towards. fact is, no one likes crime and this thread is about "what don't you like about Aus"

The news report which I used in reference is supportive of the level of these crimes which if you understand a bit more about the social impact of a drug dependent society hooked on metamphetamines, dives up other crimes. Even the Prime Minister Tony Abbott admits the war on drugs is "unwinnable". But hey, you just keep reading those out of date stats and praise the police force for being busier than ever in busting the "unwinnable" drugs labs, importers and distributors becasue one day they will get on top of it it will be a drug free society....hey

[AndreaL]

I sit with a different view of the world, I volunteer at a support and referral agency and our clients are mostly victims of DV............it is incredibly hard for these women...............and some men, to get the hand up that they need to be able to walk away from some dreadful situations...................I believe that pensioners should have a liveable "wage" as thanks for building the country by way of 40 or 50 years of their hard work and tax dollars.

I believe that families should be able to clothe, feed and educate their children, even low income earners................you get the picture.

[Nev]

lol, you still haven't answered my questions, don't you want to?

Bagh, ok, im done with this thread, have fun peeps

Edited April 29, 2014 by Nev

[Johnno]

lol, you still haven't answered my questions, don't you want to?

I'm too scared to say anything.....just in case I make you unhappy. I suggest you refer to the website that Sunnyskies posted that gives the stats for Victoria. It's all there and I even popped up an image of the stats but you did not bother answering. Maybe you were too busy reading those old stats?

I sit with a different view of the world, I volunteer at a support and referral agency and our clients are mostly victims of DV............it is incredibly hard for these women...............and some men, to get the hand up that they need to be able to walk away from some dreadful situations...................I believe that pensioners should have a liveable "wage" as thanks for building the country by way of 40 or 50 years of their hard work and tax dollars.

I believe that families should be able to clothe, feed and educate their children, even low income earners................you get the picture.

DV is terrible and from what I've heard, it's one the main reason for homelessness (what little there is) in Australia. Good on you for making a difference. I worked with my son's fotty team on a volunteer program with teenagers from disadvantaged homes where DV, drug and alcohol abuse had ruined these kids home lives. It's very hard and I just felt that I did not have the training of a social worker to properly engage and make a diffs so I was the bus driver on some pretty cool outings. Unfortunately each month there were new faces and each one was filled with so much hurt. The world can be so cruel.

[patrice]

Hey NeV

Below is a simple easy to read graph of some official numbers ('000) of crime events, which suggest the numbers over the last 5 years confirm what you and many others are saying >

[Bronwyn&Co]

I think we should be taking into account that we are all commenting from different corners of Australia. Each State has got its own laws and even its own borders and if you commit a serious offence you are actually extradited to the state where you committed the offence.

Possibly the areas where some people are adamant that crime has increased, have actually experienced an increase (especially if they have been in the country 10+ years).

We are not exactly being scientific here, throwing stats around without much regard for details.

I think surely everyone gets the picture by now. I would suggest reading Australian news online every day (as I read SA news every day), and possibly finding a local Australian radio station for streaming audio, if you really want to get a feel for things from South Africa.

[chzaau]

Patrice, in your graph above, what is the y axis refer to ?

I still want to put this out there, if you have 100 people and 10 are rob in area 1 in year 1, then in year two, there are 200 people and 10 are rob in area 1. The number of crimes committed in area 1 are still the same, it has not changed, but from a stats perspective you can say the you have reduced the crime rate by 5 % in area 1. Actually what has happened is crime in area 1 is still the same, the population has increased and hence the likelihood of becoming a victim is 5% less because there more people who the robber may target.

[RYLC]

I've finally thought of one thing that I don't like on a consistent basis and that is the dust! We lived in a misty spot in RSA with mould being more of an issue than dust whereas now I could write my name on the furniture with my finger on a weekly basis.

[patrice]

Chzaau

As explained in the previous post - the Y axis - official numbers ('000) of crime events.

Now some might now take cover and use avoidance tactics like playing the 'victim' or even argue that different states or areas will be diffirent - well thats the point (maybe the 'penny' has dropped?) - we can always hunt and find some place that looks bad, and then present this as 'australia' - to be mature and responsible we need to give a ballanced view.

Below is the same graph, for WA.

[Bronwyn&Co]

Maybe the penny has dropped? Insufferable.

[AndreaL]

Maybe the penny has dropped? Insufferable.

LOL Bronwyn, I swear, Patrice is a lovely person, honestly he is not insufferable...............C'mon guys can we all spread a little peace and goodwill?

Otherwise I will tell you all about my crappy life...........................and that is a long and dreadful tale that no one needs to hear

[patrice]

Maybe the penny has dropped? Insufferable.

Yea - and it sure took a while for the 'penny to drop' .... as I said before, if the cap fits, wear it

I also understand that when the facts do not support someone’s view, they display their true colours - so your name calling does not bother me. I actually find it quite amusing, take it from where it comes and brush it off – an explanatory analogy would be kind of like one does when some filth splashes from the gutter onto your shoe, and you wipe it clean.

For completeness - to explain your other 'defence / excuse' that it was not 'scientific' - obviously it was totally missed, but both graphs I provided are professionally reference to the source of the data where all the detail is available.

The graphs provide the number of actual incidents, and therefore have no statistical post-processing.

I believe that Sir Winston Churchill is quoted as saying "never trust any statistics, unless you have manipulated them yourself"

If something about Oz does bother me, it would be the number of flies at some times of the year, especially out in the bush (which being a geologist, going out to the bush is an occupational hazard )

[AndreaL]

We are having the same problem in Queensland, the flies are terrible at the moment, but I also believe that it is warmer than usual for this time of year, we are still hitting 30 degrees, I'm very skilled with mu Aussie salute.

[heidim]

@AndreaL (my quote option isn't working): Please tell about your crappy life. I need to know someone's life is crappier than mine.

What I don't like about Oz: OHS - it should be declared a national swear word and life curse. For the life of me they are more worried about OHS than getting the job done. Well actually not worried about anyone's safety, just worried that they'll get sued. Those still coming, it stands for occupational health and safety.

[AndreaL]

@AndreaL (my quote option isn't working): Please tell about your crappy life. I need to know someone's life is crappier than mine.

What I don't like about Oz: OHS - it should be declared a national swear word and life curse. For the life of me they are more worried about OHS than getting the job done. Well actually not worried about anyone's safety, just worried that they'll get sued. Those still coming, it stands for occupational health and safety.

You don't want to know......lol........except it really is crappy, but I'm trying to send out positive affirmations .................what you send out to the universe, you get back.................or so I told my hubby and he looked at me as if I was on some sort of hippie trip.........

[HansaPlease]

What I don't like about Oz: OHS - it should be declared a national swear word and life curse. For the life of me they are more worried about OHS than getting the job done. Well actually not worried about anyone's safety, just worried that they'll get sued. Those still coming, it stands for occupational health and safety.

That said... Somebody very close to me had somebody die at their workplace this week due to an accident. Right in front of staff. They frantically tried to work on him but he didn't make it. Was very traumatic for everybody involved, and this was due to unsafe work practice.

Just that morning they were discussing in a meeting how terribly slack their OH&S is and they need to do something before somebody gets hurt. This is in a country where OH&S is very slack and this happens a lot.

Kinda makes me thankful that in Aus, they try their best to avoid that sort of thing.

I agree though, that there is a sweet spot, somewhere in between protecting workers and being ridiculous for the sake of not being sued.

[Toitjie]

wrt OHS - I have also seen and experienced how hyper they are, but I tend to agree with HansaPlease - it's necessary. There were so many accidents at the City of Tshwane in Pretoria due to complete non compliance to OHS. A lot of the employees acted like cowboys as if rules are there to break and that they dont really have to conform as they are "experts". Sadly - I have lost 2 colleagues due to this - they were both electrocuted and I think it's a horrible way to die. Were there more stringent rules in place it might have been prevented.

In one of the depots that I regularly visited, one of the electricians was a female and she told me that the guys didnt like her...and one day while she was working on a cable they switched it on and she was almost electrocuted. I know that there are very strict procedures in place to prevent that and to ensure a cable is dead before work can commence but the mere fact that they firstly felt it's ok to switch it on and secondly that they were able to switch it on....shows a lack of control measures.

[Bronwyn&Co]

Yea - and it sure took a while for the 'penny to drop' .... as I said before, if the cap fits, wear it

I also understand that when the facts do not support someones view, they display their true colours - so your name calling does not bother me. I actually find it quite amusing, take it from where it comes and brush it off an explanatory analogy would be kind of like one does when some filth splashes from the gutter onto your shoe, and you wipe it clean.

For completeness - to explain your other 'defence / excuse' that it was not 'scientific' - obviously it was totally missed, but both graphs I provided are professionally reference to the source of the data where all the detail is available.

The graphs provide the number of actual incidents, and therefore have no statistical post-processing.

I believe that Sir Winston Churchill is quoted as saying "never trust any statistics, unless you have manipulated them yourself"

If something about Oz does bother me, it would be the number of flies at some times of the year, especially out in the bush (which being a geologist, going out to the bush is an occupational hazard )

You are the rudest person, Patrice, that I have encountered in my 8 years on this forum. This may surprise you but I don't need to 'defend or excuse myself' for any reason. You are a disgrace. I will not engage with you again. Also please do not inbox me again. Edited April 30, 2014 by Bronwyn&Co

[Johnno]

You are the rudest person, Patrice, that I have encountered in my 8 years on this forum. This may surprise you but I don't need to 'defend or excuse myself' for any reason. You are a disgrace. I will not engage with you again. Also please do not inbox me again.

Don't let it bother you Browyn&Co. Remember that sarcasm is the lowest for of wit and in this case also the refuge of scoundrels. You deserve better company so put him on ignore and move on

OH&S / HSE (Health Safety & Environment) policies are good and there's definitely a place for them in all business practices but in some cases it's gone way overboard and it's getting worse! Our company has just updated a a bunch of JSA's (Job safety Analysis) forms to comply with work that we're doing for a contractor to one of the big mining companies. Needless to say the OH&S / HSE flows down to all companies / sub-contractors so last week we had to modify our "driving a company vehicle" to include putting on safety belt, ensuring that you have enough fuel, to pull up hand break and remove keys etc etc etc. Oh and then it was knocked back because we had to add in a section about pulling over safety to change a tyre, not to use mobile phone whilst driving. And t think these companies have people reading through this paperwork to make sure everyone complies. Since people do not get out of bed for less then $100K PA, the cost to business is horrendous!

[chzaau]

I just want to work something out here, based on the graph, in 2008/2009 crime dropped, this is looking at WA graph. Since then 2009 onwards some of the crime has increased actually, not dropped.

Dropped

Malicious property damage and other theft

Increased

Physical assault above the 2008 starting point

Theft from motor vehicle, almost at the same point of 2008, big increase in the last year.

Break in, increased by not to much below the starting point of 2008

Stable or close to stable

Robbery about the same

Motor vehicle theft

Sexual assault.

So it does bear down, in Perth that is when people say that crime does feel like it has increased, the figures do speak to that.

[Johnno]

I think it was patrice who posted the stats and then said only believe stats if you have manipulated them yourself.

Since engaging in this hot topic I've started asking the folks at work and even my neighbours, all locals who are born and bred Aussies what their perception is of crime. I can confirm without exception that everyone, young and old said that they felt that they and their belongings were not as safe as they were in the past and we're not talking 20-30 years ago, I specifically stated in last "few years". Giving people the benefit of doubt, it could be that this perception is influenced by a surge in social media, more news more easily available? I don't for one moment believe that it's stopped people from walking on the beach, playing in parks etc but they are a lot more mindful about locking up and at least taking some security measures. I don't know and no amount of "stats" on paper can change people's perception.....there's obviously a reason why they feel this way.

[Jordy]

I saw this head line yesterday which caught my attention. Over 100 000 Australians were arrested for drugs in the year 2012-2013

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/australia-warned-its-ice-problem-is-reaching-pandemic-proportions/story-fni0fee2-1226898535547

scary stuff!

[patrice]

I just want to work something out here, based on the graph, in 2008/2009 crime dropped, this is looking at WA graph. Since then 2009 onwards some of the crime has increased actually, not dropped.

Dropped

Malicious property damage and other theft

Increased

Physical assault above the 2008 starting point (linear fit is y = 0.07x + 64.95)

Theft from motor vehicle, almost at the same point of 2008, big increase in the last year. (it is lower than the start - again how is this an increase?)

Break in, increased by not to much below the starting point of 2008 (if this is 'not much below the start' - how can it be interpreted as an increase ?)

Stable or close to stable

Robbery about the same (start 16.8 - end 12.2 = 27% decrease ?)

Motor vehicle theft

Sexual assault.

So it does bear down, in Perth that is when people say that crime does feel like it has increased, the figures do speak to that.

Maybe this graph will help (source ABS - date published: Feb 2014) - the events are now cumulative, the red line with arrows shows the overall decrease of the total number of events over the time frame.

Also please note - this graph is for Western Australia - not Perth

As I said if you want the detailed numbers, so you dont have to try and interpret them off a graph, I did give the reference, but here is the direct link, where you can down load these tables, the raw data numbers for total Australia and individual states and territories are listed.

As perviously - these graphs represent the basic raw data (available on the link below), with no statictical post-processing

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DetailsPage/4530.02012-13?OpenDocument

Edited May 1, 2014 by patrice

[Johnno]

Maybe this graph will help (source ABS - date published: Feb 2014) - the events are now cumulative, the red line with arrows shows the overall decrease of the total number of events over the time frame.

Also please note - this graph is for Western Australia - not Perth

As I said if you want the detailed numbers, so you dont have to try and interpret them off a graph, I did give the reference, but here is the direct link, where you can down load these tables, the raw data numbers for total Australia and individual states and territories are listed.

As perviously - these graphs represent the basic raw data (available on the link below), with no statictical post-processing

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DetailsPage/4530.02012-13?OpenDocument

This graph explains EXACTLY what I've been saying all along. If you look at the (graph provided by patrice) it can be very clearly seen that the trend in the last 3-4 years is an UPWARD trend. Yes, it may have dropped from 2008 but from 2010 (i.e. in recent times) it's increasing. I'm not sure about you guys but I live in the present (not the past) and although stats of the past are nice to look at, it has little to do with what we see and experience right now.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words and it can clearly be seen that the trend in the sample data provided by patrice is moving in the wrong direction..... but am I the only one seeing this?

[AndreaL]

But when I open the links to read all of the documents, it says the following.............

The estimated victimisation rate was lower in 2012-13 compared to 2008-09 for each of the selected types of household crime:

• Break-in: 2.7% in 2012-13, compared with 3.3% in 2008-09
• Attempted break-in: 1.9% in 2012-13, compared with 3.1% in 2008-09
• Motor vehicle theft: 0.6% in 2012-13, compared with 1.1% in 2008-09
• Theft of property from a motor vehicle: 3.1% in 2012-13, compared with 4.5% in 2008-09
• Malicious property damage: 6.3% in 2012-13, compared with 11.1% in 2008-09
• Other types of theft: 2.8% in 2012-13, compared with 4.4% in 2008-09.

It also states that overall reporting rates for crime are up, and

Australian households experienced less crime in 2012-13 than in 2008-09, according to new figures released today by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS).

The Crime Victimisation Survey, conducted annually, found that rates of victimisation for crimes such as break-in, attempted break-in, malicious property damage and motor vehicle theft were all lower in 2012-13 than five years ago.

ABS Director of the National Centre for Crime and Justice Statistics, William Milne, said, "The victimisation rates for both break-in and attempted break-ins were lower in 2012-13 than in 2008-09.

Victimisation rates for some personal crimes were also lower in 2012-13 than in 2008-09. "Physical assault and face-to-face threatened assault are also lower in the new findings", Mr Milne said.

I have to admit, I'm not great with graphs, but the reports seem to indicate that certain crimes are in fact down from 5 years ago.