what don't you like about Aus?

[Mikej]

Johnno,,,,,,,,tsk tsk, having a dig about Albany, it's a lovely little place and I believe the unemployment rate is around 5.8% which would be the national average, quite good really given that whaling was the major industry up until the early 70's, so the town has managed to re-invent itself in a way.

Thanks for coming to Albany's defense AndreaL. We are a hardly noticed little city out in the sticks and are very sensitive to hurtful remarks.

[AndreaL]

Thanks for coming to Albany's defense AndreaL. We are a hardly noticed little city out in the sticks and are very sensitive to hurtful remarks.

Well, I can be completely honest about Albany because I lived there................I wouldn't want anyone throwing themselves off the blow holes because the town is full of pensioners and lay abouts...............how did your swim go? Obviously the huge shark didn't fancy some Mike's kitchen.............lol

[Johnno]

I have been following this post and johnno is exhibiting classic symptoms of being an internet troll,

He joins threads and posts stuff that by now he knows is going to get people riled up, then posts a pic of /popcorn when the drama starts, tells everyone he wont be giving any more advice and a few posts later is back with a article highlighted with words like "Given our extremely high offending rate around Theft from Motor Vehicle at present".

Having fun mate?

hey Nev, don't shoot the messenger, I did not write that news report you refer to above.

BTW, I see we have almost the exact same amount of "likes" yet you have almost twice as many posts. .....and you have the cheek to suggest that I'm displaying troll like behaviour? C'mon mate, you've been in Oz for 5mins and still very much on honeymoon. We'll talk again when you've got some real experience to share

Edited April 28, 2014 by Johnno

[Nev]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,^[1] by posting inflammatory,^[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response^[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.^[4]

You joined the discussion, upset a whole bunch of people, posted a picture of eating popcorn to let everyone know you were enjoying the drama, said that you were done, then posted more, seems to fit the description.

Likes and time spent in Auz is irrelevant to this discussion....

[Johnno]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,^[1] by posting inflammatory,^[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response^[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.^[4]

You joined the discussion, upset a whole bunch of people, posted a picture of eating popcorn to let everyone know you were enjoying the drama, said that you were done, then posted more, seems to fit the description.

Likes and time spent in Auz is irrelevant to this discussion....

Likes and the amount of posts may be irrelevant to this thread but it's certainly not irrelevant to one's overall contribution to a discussion board and hence it serves a purpose. It works on a simple principal of positive feedback for comments which people agree with and hence like. I do not believe trolls feature highly on that count.

If you've had a sense of humour failure (which BTW is a big fail in Aussie culture) or if reading my posts which are all based on facts and real news links does not always agree with your views, dreams and aspirations of Australia then maybe you take a leaf out of Donny's book and done a bit more research before you hopped on the plane. Obviously reading about it now is causing you some distress?

[Nev]

Not sure what my feelings on crime in Auz have to do with this and the purpose behind my comments is not because of a sense of humor failure, i just don't like it when people cause others unhappiness for fun.

It is great that you have so many likes. means that you have given some good contributions in the past, makes me more interested in why you are trolling now?

Here is a great article for you on how crime is dropping, my favorite bit out of the article is:

"I finish with an appeal: you may prefer to know the truth, but keep it to yourself. Please don't spoil the fun of those who like to imagine they could be swept away at any moment by the rising tide of crime."

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/society-and-culture/reporting-crime-drop-just-doesnt-pay-it-seems-20120306-1ui95.html

Dont shoot the messenger.....

Off the government website:

Motor V Theft is really low compared to prior years, great dont you think?

Edited April 28, 2014 by Nev

[Johnno]

Not sure what my feelings on crime in Auz have to do with this and the purpose behind my comments is not because of a sense of humor failure, i get just don't like it when people cause others unhappiness for fun.

It is great that you have so many likes. means that you have given some good contributions in the past, makes me more interested in why you are trolling now?

Here is a great article for you on how crime is dropping, my favorite bit out of the article is:

"I finish with an appeal: you may prefer to know the truth, but keep it to yourself. Please don't spoil the fun of those who like to imagine they could be swept away at any moment by the rising tide of crime."

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/society-and-culture/reporting-crime-drop-just-doesnt-pay-it-seems-20120306-1ui95.html

Dont shoot the messenger.....

again, if being honest and telling the truth about our views on crime in Aus (as Donny asked) is going to cause people like you to be "unhappy" then I'll apologise for being truthful and answering questions. If you want me to lie and hide the truth to make you happy I can do that as well but I wont feel good about it.

Don't worry I won't shoot the messenger, I don't have the heart, not when the news report that you dig out is over 2 years old

Nev, rest assured. If your motive to move to Aus was to live in a society with a lower rate of crime, violent crime, burglaries etc then SA then you have done the right thing and you will have no regrets. Just do not be naive and try convince yourself that there's no crime at all.

[Johnno]

Nev, further to your edited comment above, your stats are 2 years old. Here's more recent stats taken from Sunnyskies link of crime stats in Victoria. In the time that you've been in Oz there's been an increase in crime.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Johnno

[chzaau]

The odd thing is the stats in RSA are also telling us that crime is reducing. In my view, every society has great things about it, including South Africa, and very undersirable things. You just have to decide what you are prepared to live with.

There was a story about two years back if I recall about a South African who was new to Australia, some how he ended up being shot dead. Now maybe if he had stayed in South Africa he would still be alive.

Let's face it, a lot of people also feel that a move is like a new start, a chance to try and do it again, free ones self from their current shackles and start over. The reality is that for some it is, for others it's the same and other the worse thing they did.

Some thrive in a rules based society, others struggle. For every good thing you'll find in Oz, there is another thing that will pull it the other way.

You must be happy with yourself first, then it does not matter where you live and what you face each day.

Being a victim of crime, especially the physical assault types, ain't going to feel different because you in Oz or RSA, that I can tell you is fact.

[BriD]

Firstly...I am a new arrival in Australia...with hardly any experience of being Australian or living here under my belt...and I openly admit that.

On this topic...what is what don't you like about Aus and the other thread on crime...Johnno...I do get where you are coming from saying that that was the question and it was not requested as a comparison. However, on pondering this point while watching this battle on this thread...I do wish to just add a thought into the mix.

I speak only for myself here...but I believe I could in fact represent many of the new arrivals on this forum when I say...it is virtually impossible to ask a new arrival what crime is like in Aus without us automatically comparing it to where we came from. It is one of the biggest reasons for this insane life change that we all have embarked on...a hope of life in a "Safer" country. Perhaps you who is essentially Australian now with so many years under your belt can separate the two...perhaps enough years have passed for you to do that without consciously working at not comparing...but I fear for me and perhaps many other South Africans who are newly arrived...this is a near impossible ask.

Yes, there is crime in Australia. There is no place without crime. Yes, some people come here with rose tinted glasses...sometimes you cannot help having those glasses on...you need to find the reasons to compel you to leave everything you have ever known behind. You come with high expectations...you try tell yourself to be more realistic...but sometimes you cannot get there until reality hits you in your face. There are some things that no one can prepare you for...you just have to walk the road and find out for yourself.

While being honest is definitely preferable...and I have always believed in an open and honest approach on all topics...I do think that sometimes things can start getting a bit warped...not intentionally perhaps...but I know had I read this when I was still in RSA, I would probably be freaked out. But the facts of the matter is...we will compare...it is impossible not to. Australia has crime, RSA has MORE crime. So ultimately, you are still safer here than you would be back in RSA.

So all I ask really, specially from you Johnno in the kindest way...is a bit more understanding when it comes to the fact that we are not all here as long as you have been and cannot just separate things as easily. Given a few years, maybe then...but for me personally...definitely not now. It is not possible.

Edited April 28, 2014 by BriD

[Mikej]

Well, I can be completely honest about Albany because I lived there................I wouldn't want anyone throwing themselves off the blow holes because the town is full of pensioners and lay abouts...............how did your swim go? Obviously the huge shark didn't fancy some Mike's kitchen.............lol

A few weeks ago a couple of visitors to Albany got a rope across the Gap and did a tightrope walk across; bunch of lunatics.

The swim was great thanks for asking, the conditions were really good and fortunately the shark did not like anything on the menu.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Mikej

[Nev]

lol, person crime and property crime are up (with some quick on the spot maths) - 2% after falling somewhere in the region of 40% since 2000, it still looks fantastic, i don't see this huge crime wave that you seem to imply?

Really it is down about 38% since 2000, i think that is fantastic,

"I finish with an appeal: you may prefer to know the truth, but keep it to yourself. Please don't spoil the fun of those who like to imagine they could be swept away at any moment by the rising tide of crime."

Edited April 28, 2014 by Nev

[AndreaL]

For me................and going back to earlier posts, lack of competition in the retail industry, it would be nice if Aldi and other supermarket groups got a decent share of the market and could shake the Coles/Woolies strangelhold.

Apathy of the general public, in relation to politics, and the enormous amount of control that the media seems to have, even being able to shape or influence public perception..................I'm thinking of the last election here.

Corruption among politicians................I'm wondering what is going to come of the allegations of Liberal party slush funds and accepting donations from banned benefactors.

[Sunnyskies]

Today the Libs have announced a deficit levy to help pay the debt burden. Only affects you if you earn over $80000. Effectively you pay an extra 1% and those earning over $180000 will pay an extra 2%. I don't like surprise taxes when we have just been hit with the NDIS adding .5% to the 1.5% Medicare levy - the amount is irrelevant.

[AndreaL]

I agree Sunnyskies

I think it is ridiculous that he intends to institute a debt levy, while he spends $12.4 billion on fighter jets and more than $5.5 billion a year on a stupid paid parental scheme for people who don't need the financial help.

Taxpayers on $80 000 and above will pay 1% and 2% for those over $180 000 up to a maximum of $8000 for those above $400 000.

It looks like we are also going to see scrapping of the school kids bonus, tax changes for those above $100 000, changes to university funding (I fear that education will end up only being for the wealthy)

In a poll on SMH, 76% of people believe this levy is unfair.

If you, like me, pay private health insurance, it feels like a triple whammy to be taxed, and pay higher Medicare levy, private medical and then this deficit levy......................all while Abbott spends $207 000 per day for frigates to patrol the sea and intercept boat people........................when it is known that more than ten times the number come by plane..........................................aaargh, I don't get why people aren't angry.

[Sunnyskies]

Agree, agree, agree.

I'm not generally a protester, but I'm itching to paint a few placards and demonstrate!! I don't care if the Labour party got us into this mess, taking the food off my children's plate is not going to help and it simply means that we have less disposable income so less money will be spent, so exacerbating the retail horror story that has been unfolding for the last couple of years.

Read an interesting article as I was looking for protest action during my lunch break - http://www.thevine.com.au/life/news/10-things-what-if-they-gave-a-budget-and-nobody-came-20140429-280674/

[Bronwyn&Co]

And how much money has Tony Abbott spent searching for MH370 (to make himself look good and curry favour with China)? That must have cost a fortune.

And they are wasting a LOT of money in the government sector.

I don't mind contributing something (less than proposed ?) to help ease debt levels, but there are so many other ways to do it!

Maybe start phasing down the tax benefits granted for owning 2 or 3 investment properties so that those taxpayers actually pay their taxes, and first home buyers get a fair crack at the market?

I think this is another knee-jerk reaction from TA.

And he is scaring the OAP's regarding their pensions, after promising pre-elections that he wouldn't cut pensions.

Not good.

[AndreaL]

Agree, agree, agree.

I'm not generally a protester, but I'm itching to paint a few placards and demonstrate!! I don't care if the Labour party got us into this mess, taking the food off my children's plate is not going to help and it simply means that we have less disposable income so less money will be spent, so exacerbating the retail horror story that has been unfolding for the last couple of years.

Read an interesting article as I was looking for protest action during my lunch break - http://www.thevine.com.au/life/news/10-things-what-if-they-gave-a-budget-and-nobody-came-20140429-280674/

Sunnyskies...............I've been bleating about this very thing for ages.............and was verbally attacked and called a socialist union loving whore when I tried to explain that debt is not always a bad thing and countries need debt................but one should never say this on another South African forum, because apparently debt is akin to the devil...................lol.............Ironically K Rudds bonus a few years back was supposedly one of the very moves that helped Australia survive the GFC, spending stimulates the economy and creates jobs, tightening our belts does very little but make one uncomfortable (except for personal debt of course)

Actually, maybe I will change my interests to "Socialist, union loving whore", sound way more interesting

[patrice]

It is always so easy to criticize or think one has all the answers!

For example:

• For someone who's family, friend or colleague was on MH370, they would be most offended by a suggestion that too much money was spent trying to find it.
• I own a few investment properties, so whats wrong with smart investing???, but contrary to what is alleged, believe me I do actually pay my due taxes.
• Who knows, the money spent to stop the boats, may be far less than what it would cost to 'provide' good livelihoods for these people.

Bottom line is that labour has pushed this economy to the edge, and somebody has to make those difficult decisions - which are so easy to criticise, but will give every one of us the hope of a sustainable economy and safe stable country to live in.

The unions and Labour have pushed salaries so high that we are no longer competitive, car manufacture closing down, factories closing down, even the mines are putting in autonomous trains and trucks because paying guys between $120k and and $150k per year to drive these is just not sustainable.

Getting paid more and more for the same job sounds selfishly good, but there are always those unintended consequences - i.e. Why do we think things are so expensive – a lot of this is due to the high salaries. Managing debt, the good and not so good debt, is way out of my experience, so will leave that to the experts.

Maybe it is also now time to encourage every one to get out and put in an honest days work, i.e. contribute to society, especially those who "milk" the grant system!!

One has to learn to take the good with the bad - and live and let live - for all - reality

Edited April 29, 2014 by patrice

[Sunnyskies]

I'm unfortunately a scum of the earth capitalist pig! Actually, more of a social democrat, but I do struggle a bit to work out where the social part ends and the capitalist part starts as I'm happy to share as long as I can still afford a few luxuries in life as I work hard for my money and would like to enjoy a little bit of it without feeling guilty.

I do believe that debt is not all bad as long as you can manage the debt load, and in economic terms it is important to strike a balance between debt that will help develop the economy and debt that is crippling the economy. My understanding is that Australia's debt is manageable, and there is no need for government to be debt free. It's one of the issues facing Australia, as many companies are also trying to be debt free which is stifling the economy as there is no money for expansion or development.

[Johnno]

I agree Sunnyskies

I think it is ridiculous that he intends to institute a debt levy, while he spends $12.4 billion on fighter jets and more than $5.5 billion a year on a stupid paid parental scheme for people who don't need the financial help.

Taxpayers on $80 000 and above will pay 1% and 2% for those over $180 000 up to a maximum of $8000 for those above $400 000.

It looks like we are also going to see scrapping of the school kids bonus, tax changes for those above $100 000, changes to university funding (I fear that education will end up only being for the wealthy)

In a poll on SMH, 76% of people believe this levy is unfair.

If you, like me, pay private health insurance, it feels like a triple whammy to be taxed, and pay higher Medicare levy, private medical and then this deficit levy......................all while Abbott spends $207 000 per day for frigates to patrol the sea and intercept boat people........................when it is known that more than ten times the number come by plane..........................................aaargh, I don't get why people aren't angry.

AndreaL, I think people are angry but right now what are the options. I stood at the local senate "re-run" election the other day and looked at all the parties and thought "wow, who's going to serve me and my tax dollars better?" So I voted for the Australian Sex Party, I'll let you know how we go

Edited April 29, 2014 by Johnno

[Johnno]

lol, person crime and property crime are up (with some quick on the spot maths) - 2% after falling somewhere in the region of 40% since 2000, it still looks fantastic, i don't see this huge crime wave that you seem to imply?

Really it is down about 38% since 2000, i think that is fantastic,

"I finish with an appeal: you may prefer to know the truth, but keep it to yourself. Please don't spoil the fun of those who like to imagine they could be swept away at any moment by the rising tide of crime."

Nev, here's an idea. If you do not want to year the truth and have your idea of paradise blemished, you should complain to the Australian Crime Commission and also ask the Victorian police to please stop saying all these negative things about Australia because you really cannot handle it. Check this out, drugs....not just a small problem but according to the police entire communities are being affected. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/australia-warned-its-ice-problem-is-reaching-pandemic-proportions/story-fni0fee2-1226898535547

[Nev]

You have lost me, that is a great article on drugs and how the police are doing lots to hammer it down, they say that they are seizing more drugs than every before, thanks for agreeing that the police are doing a better job than every before?

We have however been talking about Vehicle and property crime up until now, i take the change of subject is your way of telling me that you agree crime is on the decrease and you have no further comments to add to the debate?

PS. if you cant handle the great job that the police have been doing on significantly cutting down on crime since 2000 then perhaps you should complain to the Australian Crime Commission and also ask the Victorian police to stop doing such a great job, the crime wave is leaving you behind......

Come on admit it, crime is auz is at some of the lowest levels in 10 years and the cops are doing a great job......

Edited April 29, 2014 by Nev

[chzaau]

Nev are you able to speak from personal experince or from stats. The reason I ask is that I see you have only lived in Oz from 2012, so how do you make the physical comparison.

Let me put this out if you have a population of 100 people and a crime rate of 20 per 100, then 10 years later you have 200 people and a crime rate of 35 per 200, has crime fallen, stayed the same, stats can self massage themselves. Also what was the crime type, if it was 1 murder and today it is 10 murders thats is a heck of a change.

[Nev]

The crime rates i have been giving above are per 100k people, so they already factor in population changes

This is more about Jonno wanting to be able to tell everyone how terrible crime is getting in auz, and the facts just don't back him up, Australia has been getting safer, and lots safer for a long time now, people just prefer to think the worst tho, human nature i guess

He is running out of arguments though, random articles about crime just don't compare to government and news articles showing how crime has come down

With regards to the physical comparison, no person can make that unless you live in all areas of Auz simultaneously, there will be some better than others and therefore people's experiences will vary, that is why you have to rely on stats to give you a perspective on how Australia is doing as a whole

Edited April 29, 2014 by Nev