Does Australia offer a better life than South Africa?

[Bams]

Okay let me also get in on this action...just loved reading this post and all the different opinions

I LOVE this forum.

I have three tattoos (one added as recent as last year) and I am not ashamed of them (actually thinking of a fourth behind the ear).

My tattoos are part of me and I will not be ashamed of them, two are visible, if you look for them, one hidden.

I say each to their own, whatever tickles your fancy, Mate.

[Nev]

behind the ear, that sounds ouch...

[JuliaClaire]

Exactly the reason I have been staying off these boards lately.

Julia, I believe Australia lets us have a better quality of life, but it comes with sacrifices. For me that's leaving my widowed mother in RSA, and the guilt I live with is very hard somedays.

My only advice from your original post, it does sound like you are not committed to the move, and I would strongly urge that both you and hubby are 100% committed, that you are both on the same page. You must both want this equally, as there may be days when your marriage will be tested.

Most people do this for their children - which is understandable, but be aware too that children grow up and may not want to live in Aus, or may not go on to become highly educated members of the community, some parents get very disappointed that they uprooted their lives and their kids did not turn out the way they would have wished.

Aussies are a very open minded nation, some may say a little rough around the edges, many swear, many have sleeves, many smoke a bong, or chose to wear uggs and denim diapers, but they don't harm you. They are just different people, going about their daily lives as best they can. It is not our place to judge. If we don't like it, we have the choice to move on.

Just be certain that this is the life you want, because even if you are determined to make it work, there will be days when you will wonder what the heck you are doing.

All the best with your decisions, I can say that after nearly five years of ups and downs the move has been worthwhile.

Thanks for that Lyn. My mom is also recently widowed, my dad having died last year. The pain and guilt of considering is a huge part of my hesitation to immigrate and my need to know its worth the sacrifice. Thanks again

[JuliaClaire]

I think you are a bit over sensitive , I did say a TAD insulting ..think about why? We not all morons for emigrating, we had very valid and real reasons, don't minimise them. I don't go onto rainbow nation and tell people they stupid for staying...just a thought...

And don't worry yourself, I won't be calling you "my dear" again..which is just a habit by the way...

And don't concern yourself with the advice of a bogan lawyer,with 2 tattoos who has lived in oz for 4 years, been to Perth and Brisbane and lived in Sydney and Melbourne ..

May I call you Mate?

I have always found this group informative but it's people like you who do the forum a disservice. People come here for advice, support, perspective, perhaps a bit of reassurance. All you have done is missed the point of my post entirely and and tossed in an insult or three. Leaves on with a bad taste and a reluctance to share again

[Skinierkie]

@ AndreaL if you are one of those people then may I please gain access to the club you are one of the nicest most sincere and helpful people on the forum.

@JuliaClaire I would agree that the decision is easier to make when you are young it must be very hard if you are older because you have to give up allot of what you have worked so hard for and your roots are more ingrained. I hope you get clarity on your choice. I have also heard that both parties to a marriage have to be 100 % committed when making this decision because it will test your marriage and you might not come out whole on the other-side if its not what you both want. Good luck with what ever you decide may you and your family be very happy

[Rhino1]

Oh dear, its a pity that people are missing each other and that their different view points tend to insult. Also a pity that many of us lack the literary skills and tact to express true intent, something often lost in non-descript writing. South Africans tend to be protectionist over their culture and values - nothing wrong with that - but when its done at the expense of other people's values and believes it's heading for conflict. I suppose its a disadvantage growing up behind the "boerewors curtain" feeling that all other cultures and values are offensive - remnants of the apartheid indoctrination if you wish and the comfort so many of us enjoyed from it. I can testify that having travelled Europe and Asia and working with and befriending people of different cultures, it is liberating and educational. I know that I will have to move to Australia with an open mind, embracing the Aussie culture and values, and I am looking forward to it. Any recommendations for a good tattoo parlour in Adelaide?

Edited October 10, 2013 by Rhino1

[elleneo]

Wow! I've been giving advice for more than 4 years on this forum, but when someone gets told something they dont like all of a sudden Im a disservice ...

Surely I also have the right to an opinion ? And surely I can defend myself when accused?

Go back and re-read my posts and you will see that often what we are trying to say is lost I translation over the internet.

I also have it on good authority that " people like me" are not that bad.

[Lyn]

Rhino I agree totally - the boerewors curtain - never heard it called that but very apt.

I am not South African - and my families treatment when we arrived in RSA in the late 70s was one that I will never forget. The Aussies on the other hand are very accepting.

IMHO - Many a white South African has been raised in a conservative, sheltered, protected and priveledged society - they know nothing else - so arriving in a country where there are so many cultures can be eye opening. I suggest PrissyMissy you give these people who see life thru different eyes - a fair go. Inside they are just like you and me.

[Mara]

@ Prissymissy: It is not that we are upset with your dislike of tats it is the way you said it. People who have tats and do not dress to the nines, are not by necessity bad people, they are just different. If you had said that you find it strange that people can cover themselves in tats, it still says that you do not like the tats, but it does not slap them through the face and tell them they are worthless. That is how your original post came across.

To everyone, I guess it is time to put this argument to bed and return to the original thread! Thank you.

[DavidJames]

In response to the original question, yes life in Australia is better. At least according to the statisticians. People in Australia are happier, wealthier, safer, better educated and live longer than many other first world countries.

That being said, emigration is a very personal journey and we all have different motivations for making the move. If the push from SA and the pull to Australia are not that strong then maybe it is not for you. It is a big decision and one needs to 100% committed in order to make it work.

Good luck however you decide.

[AndreR]

Phew, we all need to take a deep breath. Brings home the point that just because we're all South Africans it doesn't mean we're going to be best of mates in Aus.

[Kurkprop]

For me, life in Australia is better. There are several reasons for saying that, the main ones being:

I can go out on my own for walks, runs etc, even at 9pm at night and be perfectly safe. Sometimes I forget to lock the front door. I feel free here.

I am reasonably confident that my superannuation will be worth a reasonable amount here when I retire. The house I am paying off will increase in value over time and I will not struggle to sell it if I have to. My child attends an excellent local school and it is free.

My salary is keeping up with inflation. Interest rates are low. The AUD is strong.

The tertiary qualifications I gained here are recognised overseas. If my children eventually attend university they will be able to receive degrees worth the paper they are written on...

I like the Australians (by the way, I lived in NZ for 4 yrs and loved the Kiwis too - they were accepting and welcoming in my opinion). I married an Australian, my kids are Australian, I work for the Commonwealth public service, I feel comfortable here. I felt a bit like a fish out of water in South Africa sometimes because of my atheist beliefs. Here it doesn't matter, people are less judgemental. I don't feel I need to explain or defend myself. Maybe that is because I live in Canberra where the majority of the population is well educated, well travelled, well rounded people, even the religious ones

And finally, my kids are growing up without baggage. They take people at face value. They do not have preconceived ideas about race, wealth, poverty, entitlement. They are Just Kids. And I love that.

[AndreaL]

Hi Guys

I just want to say sorry for having a dummy spit ( or chucking a tanti as we call it here). I take my hosting duty very seriously on this wonderful forum and like to keep any personal feelings I have separate, and just couldn't.

Anyway, it is all good now. Prissymissy, I actually do understand that a lot of people don't understand tattoos ( I would have thought you would have seen lots in NZ though) but the way you expressed yourself was similar to me saying that I find people with blonde hair or lots of make-up or covered in expensive jewellery disgusting............and the "these people" comment............it was just the way it came across.

I'm inclined to think about a lesson I learned as a little girl in the UK, when on holiday once I saw a "little person" once called midgets, but the term is considered offensive now.

I very loudly said, " Mummy, look at the little man". My Mum pulled me to one side and explained to me that everyone in the world was different and that my saying that might have hurt the man's feelings and that I should have an inside voice, where I might think things in my head, and an outside voice, where what I said shouldn't make people uncomfortable or hurt them.

Perhaps I was a slow learner, because one day not much later I was in a lift in the hospital my Aunty worked at and in stepped an African? ( He may have been Jamaican) man........out came, " Aunty June, look at the big black man".....I was fascinated, he was about 6 feet tall and had the blackest skin I had ever seen, so black it almost looked blue, in fact I may have called him blue...........I was enthralled and can remember wanting to touch his skin because it looked so shiny and soft, luckily he just smiled and raised an eyebrow.

I have learned though and hopefully have taught my own children about inside and outside voices................sometimes we all forget though that our words can hurt.

Actually, I really don't like the look of stretchers, it reminds me too much of various tribes that stretch their ears or lips.................and I sort of wonder what people will do if one day they change their mind and are left with huge holes in their ears.......at least with a tattoo, you can have a new design tattooed over it, however, if my kids choose to have stretchers, that is their choice as it is their body.

I have a small Celtic design on my shoulder and just 2 weeks ago have had the start of a new tattoo done on my back..............For those of you with time, here is the story. In 2011 I had back surgery, it took nearly a year to recover fully and over the next year I thought about having a tattoo to cover the scar ( I see the scar as a reminder of a mechanical failure of my body)

I searched and finally found a design that I loved, partly because it relates to how I see the world and my place in it....here is a little excerpt from Wiki to explain....

The concept of a tree of life has been used in science, religion, philosophy, and mythology. A tree of life is a common motif in various world theologies, mythologies, and philosophies. It alludes to the interconnection of all life on our planet and serves as a metaphor for common descent in the evolutionary sense. The term tree of life may also be used as a synonym for sacred tree.^[1]

The tree of knowledge, connecting to heaven and the underworld, and the tree of life, connecting all forms of creation, are both forms of the world tree or cosmic tree, according to the Encyclopædia Britannica,^[2] and are portrayed in various religions and philosophies as the same tree

Interconnection, evolution, Mother Earth, and the Gaia hypothesis all appeal to me and make a great deal of sense. I looked at various Tree of life designs for months and then came across a Celtic belt buckle ( I'm Scots by birth and my Dad is fiercely patriotic and so have grown up in a world of gaelic myths and music).

I booked my tattoo with a very gifted and slightly mad artist ( they say the best artists do have a tenuous relationship with sanity....lol)............the waiting list was 3 months long and the tattoo was also going to be my birthday present......................then my back gave out again on the 5th of August ( a slipped disc and trapped nerve, L5/S1 to be exact).

At the moment I am having weekly chiro and medication to hopefully help my back heal without having to have another operation. As I said to my chiro..." I'm having this tattoo done, L5/S1 is NOT going to win again", so on the 24th of September I had the first ink done....3 hours of it ( but still less painful than a trapped nerve)

Here is my design, I'm not enough of a contortionist to be able to take a picture of my own back. The image is also a testament to the love my hubby and I share and taken in the context of a tree of life and indeed the cycle or circle of life, love, loss etc, is an intensely personal and magical design.

The words are Gaelic and mean, strength, passion, hope, faith......I have altered the design slightly, but it looks fantastic.

Anyway I have rambled enough, but hope you all "get" that this particular tattoo is almost a visual representation of my belief system and also a testament to my and hubby's journey together through life.

[AndreaL]

You know, there are days when I just love this forum and the people on it......all of you, you deliciously, different and diversely delightful doyens!

I am so happy that you all came out of the closet, with your tattoos and piercings, your crocs and thongs.............Hansa! Well I never, (frighteningly good looking .......I DO read all posts....and a tongue ring too!). Did it make you lisp?

I think there is a little of the rebel in all of us, it may be as subtle as choosing to wear white when you have 4 kids under the age of 6, or going the whole hog and immersing yourself in a culture, belief system, music.....( yes I;'e done Gothic girl and rock/biker chick and am currently in earth hippy, boho world) . It is a normal part of finding your self and your place in the world......................and another reason I love Australia, the individual is tolerated, respected, and even admired...............I often felt claustrophobic in South Africa, the pressure to fit in and be another sheep ( O.K. a bit harsh, but how I sometimes felt)......apart from health and happiness, I wish strength of character and conviction in my children to be happy and confident in who they are...............unfortunately, it takes some of us to be in our 30's or 40's to be truly comfortable in our own skin.

I love that I got to know a little more about so many of you, it strengthens the bonds and friendships that result from this forum.

I leave you with a poem......this will be me.

When I am an old woman I shall wear purple
With a red hat which doesn't go, and doesn't suit me.
And I shall spend my pension on brandy and summer gloves
And satin sandals, and say we've no money for butter.
I shall sit down on the pavement when I'm tired
And gobble up samples in shops and press alarm bells
And run my stick along the public railings
And make up for the sobriety of my youth.
I shall go out in my slippers in the rain
And pick flowers in other people's gardens
And learn to spit.

You can wear terrible shirts and grow more fat
And eat three pounds of sausages at a go
Or only bread and pickle for a week
And hoard pens and pencils and beermats and things in boxes.

But now we must have clothes that keep us dry
And pay our rent and not swear in the street
And set a good example for the children.
We must have friends to dinner and read the papers.

But maybe I ought to practice a little now?
So people who know me are not too shocked and surprised
When suddenly I am old, and start to wear purple.

Jenny Joseph

[AndreaL]

Aw, JuliaClaire, I just wrote a fairly lengthy response and clicked the wrong button and lost it!

Thank you for being so gracious about us taking your post sooo . At least I hope that the variety of answers help in some way.

I think you are being very sensible given the current job market, your husbands age ( we all seem to go backwards when we first get here and it can take a few years to be sitting in a workplace you are happy in and that fits you).

Given where we are in our life, I cannot contemplate moving elsewhere, but we all know that if circumstances change, then the topic may come up again....perhaps it is the same with you.

Again, good luck with your decision... If there is anay information you would like about other parts of the country, or more specific occupation related advice, please just shout out

[Toitjie]

Andrea - that is one of the most beautiful tattoos I have seen. It really fits you. The only thing I regret about my tattoo is that when I got it, it was more of a fun thing than anything else, so there didnt go any thought into it such as yours. Your specific thought process can only come with age and maturity and unfortunately I was still in my early twenties so didnt think about that so much. The next one will have more meaning

And by "age and maturity" I dont mean you are old! I just mean life experiences that a young adult dont necessarily have

oops - sorry Mara, I only now saw your post. No more tat-talk

Edited October 11, 2013 by Toitjie

[rozellem]

My tattoo turned 21 on Monday. I only told my mother about it a couple of years back. This is the mayor difference between Aus and RSA. All these things mentioned, and so feared, by the original poster happens in RSA (and like in the case of drugs, its so much more prevalent in RSA) but, it happens in secret. Aussies are open about their issues, where South Africans worry about what the neighbours say, therefore cover up.

Like I have said on here before, no "self respecting, middle class, South African" would go out and get their own drugs. Purleeeze! Just like so many dirty little jobs in RSA (petrol, cleaning, etc) you pay someone to do it for you. Just ring your friendly Nigerian dealer and he will deliver to your door.

[AndreaL]

Ooh, I'd rather go out to some neutral zone than have a Nigerian drug dealer know where I live.

Look, I've lived an interesting life and know plenty of people who use drugs and did in RSA....very much part of the club and festival scene......think about festivals like Oppikoppi, Splashy Fen, Rocking The Daisies etc.....I know that you can hardly walk ten paces without being offered drugs.

I have experimented with a few in my twenties, but like being in control too much, so they weren't for me...and despite having very liberal parents who knew that we did experiment, not one of my 3 siblings uses drugs...in fact 3 of us out of the 4 are vegetarian and have a very close relationship with nature and what we put in our bodies.

Speaking of music, any forumites who live in Cape Town, get yourself down to Lower Main Rd tomorrow for the Open Streets fundraiser for Trenchtown

" Cover R20 (All door proceeds donated to Open Streets)
Open Streets Cape Town works to create shared streets that embody respect for everyone and help bridge the social and spatial divides of our city.
https://www.facebook.com/events/690036761025860/

This is an unashamed punt for the band Reburn in which my brother is guitarist..........pass on through your social networks please

[Renny]

ok, so I grew up in a very good middle class family, both parents still together and love each other, two brother also well educated and live all over the world. I have a tattoo, a belly piercing (don't wear the ring anymore) and more than one earring in each ear! I am still very much middle class, married, live in a big house in a nice neighbourhood, behind the "boerewors gordyn"...yes that is what they call the northern suburbs of Cape Town. Our friends from the southern suburbs and town also joke that they need to get their passport stamped when the come to visit.

I see myself as normal as I want to be. I am Afrikaans, love English people. have a few german friends, love different people. Hubby and I have moved three times (each time bought and sold our property) in the last 5 years. Hubby has changed jobs 4 times in last 6 years and he changed industry twice!!!! I just solidly resigned from a job after 9 years, just because I can and wanted to start my own business, that had nothing to do with what I actually did!

I still see myself as normal

A short story on Aus, that made us decide that it will be better.....

Went over for a visit last year April...only stayed with family on the Gold Coast, so can't comment on other area's. Loved the diversity, loved the differentness (new word) of the restaurants and grocery shops, loved the weird people, love that everybody is so comfortable being what they are, that they have less hang ups and issues about what they should be!

Exciting nightlife and fashionable people that hang out in Surfers paradise, juppy people, some money to flaunt around

Went up to mount Warning...think this was the name (or mount tamborine). Climbed the mountain to the top. My mom (being 60) made it to the top and did not want to do the last few meters as it was a little rock climb with a rope....she was too tired so she stayed there and the rest of us went to the top of the look-out point! It was stunnning! Next thing mom is standing behind us....She was very happy waiting at the bottom with all the tourists passing her, when an Aussie couple came up to her and told her she had to go up as the view was amazing. She said she was tired. They did not take no for an answer and the woman pulled her from the front and the man pushed her from the back until they got her to the top. They said to her that she had made it so far and they did not want her to give up so close to the end.....She was just amazed that these total strangers took so much interest in her and went out of their way to help her. She loved the view!! This is what we have experienced with the ausies so far. For me it feels the South Africans have become a nation of doing things for themselves. We have forgotten to look around us at the people around us.

I will be very happy to say goodbuy to my big house when we leave here. Our house has consumed our free time. I prefer to do all my own cleaning (guess I will be fine in Aus) and my hubby prefers to do all the garden work and handyman work around the house himself. So all our free time are being used up in the house and we have less time to go out and enjoy ourselves. I want my smaller house back and will be happy to settle in a smaller place in Aus...more time to be outside for Mountain biking, hiking, strolling along the beach, pick nicks. Everybody in life craves different things, we all have the right to that.

We are doing this move for ourselves.....we want to live in a 1st world country, we want to have less discrimination around us, we want to be able to express ourselves without people putting us in a box.

People are so fascinating, enjoy them, embrace them and learn something from each other.

AS so many has said, decide what you want, what you prefer, what you can live with and what you can't live without. Then make the decision and stick to it.

[Mara]

@ Toitjie , no worries mate, some things you can control, others just run away with you, just as this thread has done.

Whenever people complain about how much drugs are around "now"...I have a silent smile. When I left school and until I was around 23, I actually lived in Hillbrow... there was a lot of "stuff" around, although I did not participate (like Andrea, I love being in control, way too much) I knew it was there and certainly had friends that did participate. So, I do not think it is as "now" as it is "since forever". I just think with the advent of computers and TV it is now more widely known and reported.

We left RSA at the end of our youngest son's matric year, a couple of days after he finished writing, he went out with some friends and returned home with an earring in his ear. I burst out laughing and his father nearly had a heart attack. Father was all about "sorting him out" and getting rid of the earring. Father was worried at how people would perceive him when we arrived in NZ. I just said to him that it had not changed our son and he was just putting his "stamp" on things, just let him be, it is just a phase. Well you can imagine what a joke it was when we arrived in NZ and every second guy had an earring and some more than one. All of a sudden our son was not different, but one of many...six months later the earring came out and he never wore it again!

[Mikej]

A bit off topic but drugs were mentioned in the first post. This is just for interest sake and nothing else.

Modern drug use is much lower than it has been historically. In Europe and the USA in the 19th and 20th centuries there was no control over the sale of cocaine. it was given to children with toothache and added to alcohol for extra effect. One of the popes carried cocain in alcohol in a hip flask and drank it throughout the day, everyday. It was popular among the working classes to relieve the stresses of work. And listen to this: Cocaine was in the original Coca Cola recipe! It was only excluded years later when the US started monitoring food standards. The coca leaves have been chewed by the indigenous peoples of South America for thousands of years.

We think methamphetamine is a modern drug but it has been around for well over 100 years. It was widely distributed to allied soldiers in the 2nd world war to combat fatigue.

Opium has been widely used in Asia for centuries.

And then there is Marijuana which has been traced (surprisingly to the Middle East somewhere) thousands of years ago.

The criminalisation of narcotics is a modern phenomenon.

[AndreaL]

This thread has run away, and I was wondering about splitting it, but given the amount of honesty and the number of views (over 2350)....and that the title is fairly general, " Does Australia offer a better life than South Africa", I think that we are in fact discussing many of the concerns that people on the South African side have, employment, leaving family, differences in society and culture............as well as the observations of those of us on the Australian side...........our concerns at coming from a society that is perceived ( not the reality in my perception) to be conservative, to one that is perceived to be permissive, our happiness at the levels of acceptance...........and how some of us have stripped away our previous perceptions during our time here and become more open and even less judgemental.

This is what I am getting from this thread, so perhaps it is as it should be.

As long as it continues in the current manner, i.e. a really honest sharing without rancour, then I think it is beneficial to those who want to trawl through its entirety!

[Gizmo]

I think it depends on what is important to you. If having a beautiful big house in a fancy suburb is your thing, then, unless you have a lot of money, Aus is probably not for you.

If you consider education, safety, freedom, outdoor activities, organised sport, community facilities/clubs etc important, then Aus/Perth is for you. If you do a search of "Perth parks" you will find three topics that I posted of parks in the northern suburbs. You just don't get that in SA.

We live in Perth. Our daughter who is 7 plays with her friends unsupervised at the park across the road. The kids all play in the street and in our front gardens which are completely open to the street (no fencing). We cycle to parks as a family with picnic gear and food strapped to our bikes. We have a clean and efficient train service from the northern suburbs to the City (and beyond). Travelling around the City, all the busses are free. Our daughter has flourished at the government schools here - she is almost two years advanced on what her peers are doing in SA. There are four universities to choose from in Perth.

Re the Australian people. The type of Aussies you are describing sounds like the blue-collar crowd. In the circles of professionals, it is a bit different - generally they are very polite, don't swear a lot and not loud at all and without visible tattoos. (My office has over 500 people and its a standing joke that I am the loudest one there!). I think your observation is very limited to who you hang with and where you were. I saw the mention of Clarkson- if that is where you were based, bear in mind, this is one of the more affordable suburbs in Perth, therefore, the cross-section of people would be very different to the affluent Western Suburbs for example.

Drugs. Remember, a couple of peoples opinions is not gospel. The reality is that Perth doesn't have anywhere near the drug problems in SA (and I am talking affluent SA). Same goes for motor accidents. I think the stats (per population) are something like 4 x less here per 1000 people. The reason why drugs and motor accidents seem high is because that is what is reported on the news. There is just no "better" news over here. In SA, drugs and accidents are HUGE, but they don't get reported on the news as there are much juicier stories to tell. The result is that it appears that drugs and accidents are not an issue in SA, but are an issue here.

Its probably worth your while to make a list of the most important things for you and your lifestyle and base your decision on that, rather than all of our opinions. Reason is that we all value different things differently.

[Tracey Walker]

Wow such interesting posts and comments guys. I too am very conservative and probably narrow minded - case in point - my 14 year old daughter has recently wanted to colour her hair and have various ear piercings (one being a tragar) hope I've got it right! Anyways been South African and conservative we have not allowed this to happen. Not out of spite or nastiness - we just believe that she is to young and it is not right for her - also what will she have too look forward to when she is our age. Unfortunately she had not taken any of this very well - too cut a very long story short - we as parents motives are now been questioned? We have been advised to negotiate with her etc etc - fortunately our family doctor summed it up the other day 'south african parents who have a daughter that has adopted the Australian way of life'! We are now second guessing our parenting skills and live in almost constant fear of what the outcome of our boundaries for our daughter will result in! I have to believe though that I will get my daughter back (not literally but figuratively) free of piercings and tattoos. The advice I would have given any other parent in my position was ' she needs a good smack' however now that this is taking place in my own home I am completely helpless at to what the best thing to do is!

[LeeInOz]

I have read the starting post a few times and read through all the comment. I have wanted to reply but have not because I would have further clouded the decision JuliaClare must make.

In short I think you should not migrate JuliaClare.

Your mind is not in the right place yet. This is not a plan B, you only live once, there is only a plan A

Only the first reason being, would you get a job at your age is real and relevant. The rest is just noise used to make it a bigger issue than it really is.

All of the other silly reasons quoted are based on what I see as a very insulated and subjective idea of what happens in South Africa and a view of Australia you have seen on the news on TV here while on holiday, because they have no drastic things to report like JHB, like cash in transit heists, murders for bicycles and mobile phones on a weekly basis, break ins with murders rape that JuliaClare considers "thrills and spills".

They only crash into houses because there are no 6" or 12" jail walls. I saw enough cars in swimming pools, in lounges for real in SOuth Africa, have only seen one house here where a car went into it.

I am happy dealing with a daughter who wants tattoos, too much junk mail and rubbish on the news