Does Australia offer a better life than South Africa?

[JuliaClaire]

We have our permanent residency which expires in October 2016. We have decided that we will make the move to Australia (preferably to Perth as my husband's whole family are happily settled there) but this will be dependent on whether we can secure employment first. I am 39 and my husband is 50. We have 3 children aged 10, 8 and 4.

We have recently returned from a holiday in Perth. These are my observations:

1. Perth is plain. The first week of being there I struggled to find things to like about the place. I was comparing it to the thrills and spills of living in South Africa. But it's futile to compare Australia to South Africa. They are very different places.

2. I found the Australians quite loud, some a little rough around the edges and tattoos are not my thing. But I also found them helpful and easy-going.

3. I loved watching channel 9 news.

4. We put up with heaps of nonsense in South Africa. In Perth, I felt free to get on with my life without the deluge of drama, be it crime, poverty, corruption, BEE etc etc.

5. I liked having access to a safe city. I'd be wiling to let my teenage children hop on the party bus to Perth but the idea of them partying up a storm in Durban city fills me with dread.

6. South Africans love commenting on the drug problem in Australia. The local pharmacist in Clarkson did say she doesn't stock sinutab anymore because they have been broken into 4 times and the sinutab stolen for drug making. This is a bit alarming.

7. I don't fancy dealing with bogans or people who crash their cars into houses. This seems to be quite common in Perth.

I could carry on and on. The main point of my post, is this. After all is said and done, is life in Australia better than life in South Africa? Is it worth the pain and guilt of leaving behind a widowed parent who would rather you stay? Is it worth swapping a beautiful home on a sizable plot for a tiny slice of dull suburbia?

I don't know. I am more confused than ever. Help!

[chzaau]

So let me put it this way, drugs are a major problem in South Africa as well, it is just that it is more confined to poorer areas like Lenasia with all it's lolly lounges, Hillbrow and in the other cities and towns the same, alcohol abuse is also an issue. So yes this problems exist it is just been less prevalent with the middle class in South Africa. However if you take a longer view over the next 10 years a big change in white middle class moving into poverty will occur due to a shrinking economy, less job opportunities etc, so that drug problem will become more accessible to whites then before.

Next thing you need to ask yourself when your kids finish up at high school what will they do, where will they study and if they do educate themselves in South Africa will that education be worthwhile, will they find employment opportunities in South Afica. Or will they be forced to emigrate themselves or at least try.

It does sound like you folks may be very conservative or risk adverse I.e must have a job etc, I would say if you not the adventures make a plan type then emigration may not be for you, it takes between 3 to 5 years to settle down well.

[Brad76]

I don't think people crashing cars into houses is too much of a problem over there! You're more likely to die at the hands of a reckless driver here!

As for drugs, they're a serious problem here as well. I'm not quite sure why South African's would mention the drug problem over there as a potential deterrent when we have that and so much more to worry about locally?

[Philip84]

Hi Juliaclaire

I understand where you are coming from. I know the latest trend it to get pr and book flight. That is something I would have to done as a bachelor. Knowing that I have kids to support and wouldn't want to necessarily eat into my life savings to survive. I would also want a secured job before I leave my life in Rsa.

[HansaPlease]

I know plenty of loud South Africans, plenty of them who are rough around the edges. Tattoos, whilst not historically common in conservative Middle class South Africa are gaining ground fast. (Check out the sleeve work on some of the young, Afrikaans Bulls rugby players. *Gasp*) The trend just hasn't taken off yet as much in SA. Crocs, have though, and they're far worse than tattoos

Crashing cars into houses: you don't hear about it as often in SA because there, houses in suburbia are further away from the street front, and people tend to crash into big security fences (the ones that are there to keep the murderers out) and not straight into houses. In SA the cars and taxis crash into each other.

The thing people forget is - you can't compare middle class conservative South Africa to the whole of Australia. People say things like "drugs aren't as bad in SA" really? Have you been to a township lately? Just because it doesn't happen in your circle (even then, I bet it does) doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The difference is, in Australia, the lines aren't as clear between classes. More people have access to cars, transport, and more freedom to be out in public. They're not confined to certain areas. This is why it seems like more of an issue.

Does Aus provide a better life than SA? It depends who you ask, and what your life was like in SA.

The things that you absolutely cannot deny about Australia are: Aus is safer. It's easier to put food in the table. Good education is more freely available. The rest is subjective.

It's all about perspective.

[Mara]

My personal opinion on this subject has always been....you are probably not doing it for you BUT you are doing it for your children!

Adults can adjust, if they are willing to look at the big picture and the big picture in living in Australia is the fantastic future that your can have access to for your children.

I have not said "will have" as nothing is a given factor, the children will have to work for it, but at least they will have many opportunities to do so, their education or race will not hold them back.

At 50, I think your husband may have a problem securing a job in Australia whilst still living in RSA, he may have to actually be here, to get a job.

If you disliked Perth so much, then why not look at the other cities in Australia, having family around is great, however being happy where you are is more important to me.

Hubby and I were both 44 when we migrated, our two sons were 23 and 17. This was 20 years ago. If you were to ask anyone of us today, we will all state that it is the best decision that we ever made!

[Stell]

Only you can decide what is important to you but I cannot imagine having young children and thinking for one moment that they'd be better off living in South Africa !

Another thing that is really annoying is how many people apply and get granted PR Visas and actually don't even know if they want to come and live here !!! I find this unreal and to be honest selfish - there are hundreds of people who have made up their minds and want to leave asap but are still waiting in line while you guys decide and I wonder how many never take them up ??? I know it is a huge thing in our lives but surely if you go through the application you actually want to come here ????

[Stepchook]

It sounds like you're not at all enthralled with the idea of Australia. That doesn't mean your feelings and opinions are wrong, it just means that perhaps Australia isn't for you. Emigration is tough, even for people like me who almost felt settled when the plane had taken off from OR Tambo! My feeling is - and let me stress that it's only my opinion - that you need to be very sure that Australia is what you want, otherwise you're going to struggle to fit in and settle.

People can try and convince you of every reason for Australia being a better option than South Africa but it still comes down to your having to make that decision yourself and - perhaps more importantly - being comfortable with your decision.

Personally, I've never been happier than I am now here in Australia and so it was absolutely the right decision for me.

What Mara alluded to in her post is true: Australia is a big place, differing from state to state and city to city. You may find that there is a particular state, city or town which really appeals to you. Then again, you may just feel that South Africa is where you'd rather be.

Best of luck!

[PrissyMissy]

We have been out of South Africa for just under 7 years now. We lived in New Zealand until June of this year and then moved to Brisbane as we felt NZ was not where we wanted to raise our young girls.

I have never felt that I fitted in living in New Zealand, and even though I am enjoying Oz far more, I also don't feel that I fit in here. We went to a Mall on the weekend and I was disgusted with women having tattoos all over their bodies, (breasts included - a few had on boobtube dresses) never mind the men with tattoos all over their necks and bodies. This still disgusts me, as I was brought up in middle class South Africa and not exposed to these type of people.

We gave up a huge and beautiful home and that is something we will never ever have again.

This week I have been asking my husband if we did the right thing leaving South Africa, we live in an area (I would not even have wanted to live in 15 years ago, this section of the suburb) anyway and I hate it. We pay AU$400 rent per week for a 120m2 house with 20m2 back yard. No play area for the kids. The neighbours are not the type of people I would mix with, so my kids have made no friends.

With regards to leaving a widowed parent behind, we sponsored my widowed MIL who now lives in NZ and she said it was the best decision she ever made as she feels so much safer and the government gives her more than she would have ever had in SA.

On the one hand, I am glad that we left SA to give them some type of future - but on the other I think of the home we gave up and the lifestyle and private schooling options (none of those we will afford here).

Immigration is a very hard decision, and needs to have lots of thought - I still do have regrets, but the good days are better now than they have been for a long time.

This is the most important decision of your life, and your children are young like mine - don't only do it for the kids - or you will start resenting them, as then you only felt that you did it for them.

Make the decision for your family unit.

Good luck with your decision.

[CGP]

Hi Julia Claire. I never read any of the previous replies to keep my response 'unaffected'. My family and I have been in Aus for 6+ months now and my recommendation to you would be to stay right where you are. We came over because the company I was working for in SA was dying and I was battling to get something else. Safety, in my opinion, is the only real consideration for making the move and that's for you to decide.

As far as your children's future goes, get them well educated and then the world is their oyster anyway. I joke with my wife that our daughter will probably end up going to London and marrying a Pom anyway.

I had a similar reaction to Melbourne as you had to Perth. Perhaps Aussies going to Johannesburg/Pretoria have the same reaction, but I would quite happily have continued my life in Pretoria if not for the job thing.

Every country has a drug problem, whether they admit it or not. I don't pay too much attention to news because I think it is sensationalised too much, but there are some horror stories in Aus too which will make you re-consider putting your kids on the party bus.

The move is hard. someone told me it took them 8 years to settle in. That'll take me to close to 50! I completely underestimated the impact of leaving friends behind, and then there's the ever-present guilt of taking a 5 year old away from her grandparents.

You can be happy in either country. I say avoid the stress and complications and be happy with what you have and where you are. I think that the time to make moves like this is when you are in your 20's, more adaptable and don't have as deep roots.

I'm sure that there will be a lot of people who are going to strongly disagree with me and they're entitled to, but I'd say enjoy SA.

[Drought]

IMHO you have to decide the reason for considering the move- if based on that reason/s you cannot make a compelling argument for a move, then don't. The one thing that moving teaches you is resilience- a trait that I would dearly love to instil in my kids.

I can't tell if life is better here, because the circumstances are different- in SA I had no kids ( that I knew of!!- {joke} ), now I do. I did a different, but related job, etc. Who knows, I could have moved to Botswana, picked up a massive diamond and retired with 10 concubines looking after my every need!!! Point is, it is a massive step into the unknown, the memory of sitting on the aeroplane just before take-off and bawling my eyes out, is still very vivid, but we did it and to be honest I could happily move again now to another country, just for the experience of a new/different culture. Moving does change you I think, I used to be more outgoing, now way more reserved, the opposite is probably true for my wife- neither is a bad thing, just part of the adaptation to new circumstances I think.

As for Perth being plain, suppose it is, but I like that it is a big "country town" where I can still see international sport, music acts, etc. ( albeit not as much as in Sydney and Melbourne) without having to use my GPS just to find my way around the suburbs.

Have to excuse me now I need to go pop a few sintutabs and get my tats re-inked.......

Edited October 10, 2013 by Drought

[AndreR]

We have our permanent residency which expires in October 2016. We have decided that we will make the move to Australia (preferably to Perth as my husband's whole family are happily settled there) but this will be dependent on whether we can secure employment first. I am 39 and my husband is 50. We have 3 children aged 10, 8 and 4.

We have recently returned from a holiday in Perth. These are my observations:

1. Perth is plain. The first week of being there I struggled to find things to like about the place. I was comparing it to the thrills and spills of living in South Africa. But it's futile to compare Australia to South Africa. They are very different places.

I haven't been to Perth, but yes, South Africa is a beautiful country. Thrills and spills? There is lots going on in SA, always some huge topic to occupy your thoughts and time. In comparison Australia is pretty boring. I think its hard for South Africans not to have "huge issues", we actually need to consider finding some form peace and happiness with "just being".

2. I found the Australians quite loud, some a little rough around the edges and tattoos are not my thing. But I also found them helpful and easy-going.

I agree. People are more open, less reserved. Its both a good and a bad thing I guess. I'm a bit of an introvert so I keep to myself anyway.

3. I loved watching channel 9 news.

4. We put up with heaps of nonsense in South Africa. In Perth, I felt free to get on with my life without the deluge of drama, be it crime, poverty, corruption, BEE etc etc.

Its quite liberating. I feel like I no longer have any excuses for not doing stuff.

5. I liked having access to a safe city. I'd be wiling to let my teenage children hop on the party bus to Perth but the idea of them partying up a storm in Durban city fills me with dread.

Kids here are so independent. My son is 12 and has never gone anywhere on his own in SA. I see kids on trains and buses travelling on their own, like I did as a child in Pretoria,

6. South Africans love commenting on the drug problem in Australia. The local pharmacist in Clarkson did say she doesn't stock sinutab anymore because they have been broken into 4 times and the sinutab stolen for drug making. This is a bit alarming.

Drugs will always be a problem. I had easy access to drugs almost 30 years ago in high school in SA, but I didn't ever use. This is an issue between you and your kids. I guarantee you, that if you have children in a high school in SA, drugs are right there in their face.

7. I don't fancy dealing with bogans or people who crash their cars into houses. This seems to be quite common in Perth.

I'll take bogans any day. At least they not digging through my dustbin once a week and blaming me for their poor lot in life.

I could carry on and on. The main point of my post, is this. After all is said and done, is life in Australia better than life in South Africa? Is it worth the pain and guilt of leaving behind a widowed parent who would rather you stay? Is it worth swapping a beautiful home on a sizable plot for a tiny slice of dull suburbia?

I think this is something only you can answer, and you possibly already have. While I am doing this for my kids and family, I'm also doing this for myself. I want to be here in Australia.

[HansaPlease]

People can try and convince you of every reason for Australia being a better option than South Africa but it still comes down to your having to make that decision yourself and - perhaps more importantly - being comfortable with your decision

Spot on. You can't change your gut feeling about something no matter how hard you try. It can change naturally and your outlook can change when presented with new information, but you can't control it.

[AndreaL]

Hi Julia Claire

Is life better here? For us yes, for others, no. Hubby is an electrician in the mines and our life is 100% better in terms of finances, 100% better in terms of people being open and honest and what you see is what you get and 100% better in terms of my kids futures. 100% better for me as I can actually get to do the degree I have always wanted to do but couldn't because my parents weren't "moneyed" in RSA.

I often think I lived in a totally different South Africa to the one that so many people refer to............drugs are rife in RSA, not only in the townships, but because they are so affordable they are everywhere.....nightclubs, pubs, steakhouses................if people want drugs you would seldom have to go more than 10km to get them......................and I have never met so many middle aged ladies addicted to pain meds and codeine based cough medicines as in South Africa!

Australia is so much more than Perth.....I lived in Perth and it does actually have some very lovely places, so I don't know about plain.....did Kings Park not impress you, the lovely parks for children, the clean beaches and picnic areas with free gas bbq's?

Maybe your heart is just not in this move.....and if you feel this way now, I can only think that things would be incredibly tough for you as it is difficult, even when you do have a job.

I'm going to be very honest, landing a job from RSA is difficult, and if the thought of coming here does not make you feel excited and want time to move faster so you can get started on your new life here, then perhaps your life in RSA is better.

It is not something that you have to do, but I do wonder what your motivation for getting a p.r. visa was..............do you still have that same motivation?

It shouldn't be about what you are giving up, but rather, what you are gaining...........perhaps the time is just not right yet.

You still have a fair bit of time to discuss and think about doing this, but I honestly think it only works if you are totally committed.

I can sense your misgivings and hesitation..............so perhaps now is not the time.

Good luck with whatever you decide

[elleneo]

From your post it doesn't sound like you want to emigrate. Either that or you are getting a case of cold feet because it's so much change? I don't know u personally so I'm not sure which is true.

As far as Perth goes, yes, it has a reputation for having lots of bogans, but there are plenty of lovely middle-class suburbs in Perth where any self-respecting immigrant could be happy.

I also have some bad news for you...you could live I the fanciest of suburbs anywhere in Australia and will still have to deal with the odd bogan lol

Heck, you may even find yourself enjoying some of the more bogan things in life, like going shopping in flip flops without make-up on, or not bothering to wash your hair on a Sunday or even eating a sausage on a slice of bread!

Seriously my dear, by asking if aus really offers a better life than South Africa I feel a tad insulted because seriously, yes, we ALL sacrificed and gave up a lot by leaving, but On,y temporarily and Im sure speak on behalf of hundreds of thousands of other saffers who have decided to call oz home.

Just try make up your mind and then put your all into it, get excited and be positive, enjoy the change!

[AndreaL]

Prissymissy

Never has a person so lived up to their name..............I don't think I have come across such a judgemental person in a very long time......the women disgust you, the men disgust you, and you would not mix with your neighbours........................You were brought up in South Africa and never exposed to these type of people.............

I'm actually angry and quite offended by what you say....you see I am "these type of people". I have 2 tattoos, nose piercing, and once had my eyebrow pierced. My hubby has long hair, a couple of tattoos and piercings and is the nicest, kindest person you would ever meet, who wouldn't hurt a fly.

I am actively involved in 3 online forums, 2 migration based and one is a support network for science students, I also volunteer on the management committee for a government agency that helps victims of domestic violence, counselling for children, separated families, triple p......you name it............................yes, I am that type of person.

I see that you only judge people by what you see on the outside and not what is on the inside...........perhaps that is why you are not fitting in, you are the one that is different.

The South Africa you think you know is a figment of your imagination, drugs are rife in the best private schools......South Africa has more bizarre night-life and underground alternative lifestyles than I have witnessed anywhere else................I've never heard of suspension clubs here, but there were plenty in RSA in the 90's, as well as raves with ecstacy, LSD, cocaine, heroin....and not just in townships..................suburban white kids are O.D ing in Witbank, Pretoria, Durban.............you name it, because their drugs are so affordable and easy to get................scores of young South Africans are dying each year because they get into their fast cars that their wealthy parents bought them, full of alcohol and kill themselves and probably a few friends too...........

If a huge and beautiful home, and a private education are what matters to you, I seriously think you have your priorities wrong...................I'm sorry, can't continue, I am just so angry that someone like you, would possibly put the word disgusting and "these people" nest to someone like me............I feel like crying, I am so upset, I just can't believe that there are people who judge so, yet see themselves as superior.

I think I had best stay away now, until I calm down.

[JuliaClaire]

Only you can decide what is important to you but I cannot imagine having young children and thinking for one moment that they'd be better off living in South Africa !

Another thing that is really annoying is how many people apply and get granted PR Visas and actually don't even know if they want to come and live here !!! I find this unreal and to be honest selfish - there are hundreds of people who have made up their minds and want to leave asap but are still waiting in line while you guys decide and I wonder how many never take them up ??? I know it is a huge thing in our lives but surely if you go through the application you actually want to come here ????

We applied for our permanent residency so we had a plan B. It took a long time to come through. I think we applied in 2007 and it only came through in 2011. At our age we are not going to give up excellent jobs in South Africa to sit in Australia jobless. If we were 10 years younger, then yes, we would take that chance. I don't think we are being 'selfish' just realistic.

[slabbert]

I dont think you can catergorise it as better or worse - as there are too many variants based on your specific needs

Its more which country is right for me/my family........................

Personally, i prefer my smaller garden with no swimming pool as its less maintenance and my kids use the beaches, parks and reserves when they want to "be outdoors"

and yes there are heaps of out door places all over the major cities - very good job done by council/townplanning with our taxes

For me, I wanted to be in a position that i could retire without having to be a burden on my kids (who may have had to emigrate out of RSA anyway by then)

and I wanted to be safe in my old age not vulnerable to crime and lack of health support/funds

For my kids, I wanted them to have choices when they left school - study further, get a trade, go overseas, get a job in any industry you are skilled for

not just what industry will accept them as white males eg "entrepernership" or a friend of a friend route

Has Aussie been better for us - yes on a day to day living of life and having all the opputunities we can choose to take up or ignore

No on a materialistic basis ie smaller house and less money for entertainment/movies - but as that has never been my major need or core value it does not bother me at all

I dont care that my bedroom size is smaller cos i know 99% that i wont be burgled/raped or murdered in it

Some of the responses bring back memories of the RSA mentality of judging people by the size of their home, what they drive, how they look (OMG tattoo's)

and after having been in Aussie for near 7 years now, I am so not used to this. Here you are judged by who you are and your actions and you start off

with a clean slate ie no preconcieved ideas based on any of the RSA "rating" factors - everyone gets a Fair Go until they prove otherwise

So as i said at the beginning (excuse the longgggg response) no country is better than the other - its more about what you and your family needs are - so best to make an honest list ie if being exposed to bogans is going to be a major issue in your life then maybe stay in another suburb, if not having a large house is an issue then move further out of the city where you get more for your money

It should not just be a RSA vs Aussie list it should encompass cities also and yes even down to suburbs (I can name several very bogan suburbs in RSA that if an Aussie moved there they

would probably also leave saying "I cannot live in that country with all those bogans")

Its pointless trying to be politically correct and "fitting in" to Aussie if you are internally conflicted and very unhappy

Good luck in your decision

[Lynnie]

We have been out of South Africa for just under 7 years now. We lived in New Zealand until June of this year and then moved to Brisbane as we felt NZ was not where we wanted to raise our young girls.

I have never felt that I fitted in living in New Zealand, and even though I am enjoying Oz far more, I also don't feel that I fit in here. We went to a Mall on the weekend and I was disgusted with women having tattoos all over their bodies, (breasts included - a few had on boobtube dresses) never mind the men with tattoos all over their necks and bodies. This still disgusts me, as I was brought up in middle class South Africa and not exposed to these type of people.

We gave up a huge and beautiful home and that is something we will never ever have again.

This week I have been asking my husband if we did the right thing leaving South Africa, we live in an area (I would not even have wanted to live in 15 years ago, this section of the suburb) anyway and I hate it. We pay AU$400 rent per week for a 120m2 house with 20m2 back yard. No play area for the kids. The neighbours are not the type of people I would mix with, so my kids have made no friends.

With regards to leaving a widowed parent behind, we sponsored my widowed MIL who now lives in NZ and she said it was the best decision she ever made as she feels so much safer and the government gives her more than she would have ever had in SA.

On the one hand, I am glad that we left SA to give them some type of future - but on the other I think of the home we gave up and the lifestyle and private schooling options (none of those we will afford here).

Immigration is a very hard decision, and needs to have lots of thought - I still do have regrets, but the good days are better now than they have been for a long time.

This is the most important decision of your life, and your children are young like mine - don't only do it for the kids - or you will start resenting them, as then you only felt that you did it for them.

Make the decision for your family unit.

Good luck with your decision.

Why don't you move then if you are unhappy with the area? We live in a huge house (in agreat area) with a garden for not much more per week than you - and our kids (8 and 5) have many friends that they've made through school, parks, playgroups etc... How is it that your kids have made "no" friends?

And there are many people here (not only in the malls) with tatoos (I am one of them and it does not make me a "bad" person). That is what I LOVE about Australia (Brisbane in any case) - I am not judged... People do not care what car you drive, if you go to church, how big your house is or if you have tatoos.. Pity that South Africans can be so judgemental

[Toitjie]

Hi Julia - I can read that you are struggling with the whole move. I just want to say, good luck, its not easy, its a bloody daunting thing to do and feelings of doubt and guilt will always be there.

Wrt Perth - my brother stayed there for a couple of years and he didnt like Perth, for more or less the same reasons. He loves Melbourne though and will be settling there. My personal opinion is if you dont get a vibe that you like from a city, choose another. I love Pretoria and there are many cities in South Africa where I would be happy, but there are just as many that I would hate. It should feel right for you. Even if you choose another city where the family isnt, they are still so much nearer than other family that are still in SA

wrt drugs - definately not a township problem only in SA. I could pick and choose any drug of choice if I wanted. Drugs are relatively freely available here and I have started educating my kids about drugs since they were in Gr 1

good luck, I know this is difficult. We are not there yet but there is nothing we can do to stop the move now (not that I want to) but the train is in motion so I do experience what you do from time to time. I question myself, I feel a lot of guilt, but I also want to do this. I want to make it work. I realised a long time ago to acknowledge the negative feelings I have and deal with them, and also that I needed to work through them in order to get at a place where I am know - where I accept we are going and in my head know that its the best thing, event though I know there is some pain on the way

[Mara]

@Prissy Missy: I just had to have a laugh...one of my medical specialists has both his arms covered with beautiful tattoos Mind you, he comes highly recommended, so there is no way that he is either a bad doctor or a bogan!

I lived in New Zealand as well, our very, very, best friend was Maori, covered in tattoos, he is the kindest most gentle man (besides my hubby) that I have ever met or known. He is tattooed, as being Maori, that is part of his heritage and he is very proud of his tattoos.

I must say, I am with Andrea on this one, you cannot judge a book by it's cover, especially not in New Zealand or Australia.

As for private schools, you do not need one here, there are very good government schools that children can attend. For those that can afford it and wish to send their children to one, that is their decision, but it is not a necessity.

You will find it very difficult to fit in or make friends with Australians, if you do not change your attitude...good luck!

[January]

Hi Julia, I have so enjoyed reading these posts as I think everyone has been honest with their responses. My humble opinion is that you get one life to live so live it. There's a saying 'be yourself because everyone else is taken'. And I think that just sums it up as we are all individuals with unique destinies, Australia might be great for some and not great for others and that's ok. We have been in Perth for 4 months now and I love it. I love the busses, trains, walking to the shops, the amazing libraries, parks, shows, concerts. It reminds me of when I finished school in 1989 and spent a year in New York and then 4 years in London, the freedom I felt, catching tubes and being independent, I never needed a car, I loved it. So basically to sum it up, I feel I have had new life breathed into me, I have a sense of joy but then it might also be because I'm a 'first world girl' and just enjoy first world facilities.

[chzaau]

I have noticed that people in South Africa do have a nice homes, they quite big, they have all sorts of things in them like jungle gyms for kids, swimming pools etc. I'm not sure if the reason may be that the public facilities are either in such a poor state, have very undesirable elements hanging around in them or it is to dangerous to go to those places.

It's quite sad when you see kids looking through a fence hoping to get out and just run free ride there bike down that big hill, it kind of looks like they locked up.

I joke with my mom in Sydney and say we all in jail here, everybody is locked up, I feel like a jailer with all the keys that you have on a key ring.

I'm not sure people where meant to live all locked up.

[Lynnie]

Prissy Missy - forgot to mention that my son is in one of the top 3 state schools in Queensland... No need for private schools

[McCabes]

AndreR - I think its hard for South Africans not to have "huge issues", we actually need to consider finding some form peace and happiness with "just being".

Agree 100%. As a nation we seem to love complaining. Maybe a love-hate thing. We love to hate???

To be honest I got quite mad reading the original post because, honestly, I would give - not everything - but a heckuva lot for a chance to "just be". All the people with a back-up plan are costing many of the people who are very serious about going their chances.

To those who say it doesn't matter either way, just use private schools etc - umm... have you seen the results of the international study they do on reading, maths, etc? I think it's called PILS? The independant schools do better than the gov schools, yes. But are they at the same level as the gov schools overseas? No. Really, they're not. They're better than the average schools, but they don't come close to competing at an international level.

Re drugs, I honestly can't believe that someone would think it's not an issue here. I went to a private high school, thanks to a kind uncle, and being a geeky bookworm, if > I < knew that drugs were available under the bridge in the nearby town, then I'm pretty sure everyone else knew, because I was pretty oblivious and not in the least interested.

Re tattoos - it's not your thing, and that's great, but why should it affect you if someone else decides it is their thing? Does it have any impact on your life at all? I don't get this. (PS - I LOVE my crocs, hahaha so that makes me *worse* whatever that means )

If/when we go, I will be doing it for my kids, yes - so that they get a proper, recognised, education. That they aren't discriminated against and can gain access to university (heard of the quota system yet? no?) and don't have to hit the brick wall of BEE/AA or whatever they implement next. I also don't want to be a burden on them when I retire. Plus, realistically - all of you now, or just them later?

At the same time, I would do it for me. To walk anywhere (ok, in the majority of places) and not be afraid - I honestly CANNOT imagine what that must feel like - except, maybe, just wonderful. I would go for the safety, and for the opportunities for myself as well. Plus imagine being part of a nation that, for the most part - works. The education works, the transport systems work, the health system works - and all of this does so for the majority, not the minority. How amazing, how fantastic. (Andre - makes me wonder what on earth we'd complain about then )

Julia, from your post I would guess you really don't want to go, and would probably battle. Maybe look at other options..? Canada? UK? USA? Though to me it sounds like you are happy in SA, so not sure that you want to go anywhere else.

Sidenote: I had to look up the definition of Bogan. LOL. I would guess half of durban would count... actually people pretty much everywhere, by one or other of the classifying criteria... My question is: do you love absolutely every single person in SA? No? So why the need to find every single person in Aus acceptable before you would consider living there? To me the helpful, friendly nature far outweighs a lack of make-up, wearing slops (or crocs!) or having tattoos. That stuffs superficial. Surely its the people themselves - their values and morals and just who they are that matters more?

Edited October 10, 2013 by McCabes