Churches in Australia/Belief in God

[PrissyMissy]

Hi

We currently live in NZ, but are moving to Brisbane in June 2013.

I have not found that many people that go to Church or believe in God overall in New Zealand.

There have been a few who attend Church, but then are totally radical and won't even mix with people that do not belong to that Church.

There are others that belong to the Church, but the ministers/pastors have god complexes and these Churches are turning into 'cult' like venues and the people follow whatever they are told.

Bible Study is not something children are taught at school and from the sound of it, not at home either - when you look at the high level of violence in the homes, especially domestic violence and child abuse.

Overall, the amount of people that I have met that believe in God has been extremely low. I was told it was 7% in NZ when I inquired from a local minister.

I have fond memories of attending Sunday school growing up in Cape Town and attending 'children' activies, picnics and camps as a child/teenager/young adult - do these type of things happen in Australia, especially Brisbane.

Another thing that happens in NZ, that has put lots of people off attending Church - is the walk of shame - if you don't give the 'correct' amount or 'x amount of your salary' - you are called up in front of the Church on Sunday - this has led a lot of people not to attend Church. Surely you give what you have, and the Church does not keep records of who gives what - overall Churches are a businesses here in NZ with huge coffee shops/book shops and the like - and it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

Recently there have been ministers/pastors who have themselves been arrested for abuse to children and in some cases to other adults in the Church, basically taking advantage of people in need and using there association with a Church to get into these peoples lives and homes.

I am at the point where we are to afraid for our children to go to Church, but I hope that can change when we leave NZ.

Would love to hear what it is like in Australia, especially Brisbane.

Thanks.

[bingo17]

Sheesh, what area are you in?

Here on the north shore there are plenty of christians and plenty of churches, have not experienced any of the things you mentioned.

[Sibella]

We live in Melbourne so I can only give you my personal experience. There are lots of Christians and churches around, but I would say most Australians are not religious and they do think you are slightly weird if you are.

So even though there are some RE education in schools (parents can opt out if they want to) most families are NOT religious at all. This annoyed me for instance at the public schools' Christmas Concert not one religious carol was sung.

But there are a variety of churches and I'm sure you'll find one that suits you. We joined the Lutheran church shortly after we arrived, it's a small church attached to a Lutheran primary and high school (private). Subsequently my middling has been offered a place at the primary school (we went to the top of the 50 odd waiting list because we are church members) and we've met some lovely people. Nobody has ever looked at how much money we give in church and as I said it's quite small so people know each other and the service is in the schools' chapel - not not big and flashy at all. We really enjoy it. My girls go to Sunday school, they have a children's service, Christmas concert and on certain Sunday evenings they have family worship which includes a small meal (provided). I also attend the (free) playgroup run by the church with my toddler each Wednesday. When my husband was away for a long time a church friend brought me dinner, not sure if it's because she's my friend or because of the church - either way I really appreciated it. We regularly get cards from the Prayer group that they prayed for us - when I had a baby, when my husband was away, etc. It's a bit strange but quite nice to know people are thinking of you.

So yes I would say it is similar in some regards but you should find a congregation where you will feel comfortable and treasured as a family - as you should be!

[AllisonW]

Could I share my views, and really not to offend but as I think that it will shed some light on your questions.

i am atheist and have loved the generally non religious attitudes in Australia. Its been one of the best parts of our move.

In the 2011 national census, 4.7 Million Australians identified themselves as atheist, meaning that almost 23% of the population are actively identifying themselves as not religious. There are probably many more that dont care to take on the title but arent religious.

As Sibella stated i have found the aussies quietly religious if at all and dont really have any sacred cows. I came from a South African schooling system where i fought all the time about non exposure of my kids to religious views. Not once have my kids been exposed to anything remotely religious since arrival here in the public schooling system. In SA when i was asked my religious views and i stated that i was atheist I was treated really badly but not here. when it has come up I have only had support. The fact that the Prime minister is Atheist and it doesnt bother anyone (they have other issues with her!) demonstrates this.

There particularly seems to be very little focus on fundamentalist churches. The old mainstream ones are here but seem to be struggling.

But to put everyone's mind at rest, the Aussies are wonderfully non judgemental. They dont have sexual, religous hang ups. I think if you wanted to attend church it wouldnt bother anyone at all.

[AllisonW]

The funny thing is that as an atheist I still love christmas and when i suggested a christmas carol evening I was shot down. i dont mind if my kids sing all christmas carols but they werent keen.

[Jordy]

Overall, the amount of people that I have met that believe in God has been extremely low. I was told it was 7% in NZ when I inquired from a local minister.

Another thing that happens in NZ, that has put lots of people off attending Church - is the walk of shame - if you don't give the 'correct' amount or 'x amount of your salary' - you are called up in front of the Church on Sunday - this has led a lot of people not to attend Church. Surely you give what you have, and the Church does not keep records of who gives what - overall Churches are a businesses here in NZ with huge coffee shops/book shops and the like - and it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

Recently there have been ministers/pastors who have themselves been arrested for abuse to children and in some cases to other adults in the Church, basically taking advantage of people in need and using there association with a Church to get into these peoples lives and homes.

I am at the point where we are to afraid for our children to go to Church, but I hope that can change when we leave NZ.

Would love to hear what it is like in Australia, especially Brisbane.

Thanks.

Hi PrissyMissy,

It sounds like you have had a very negative experience of church in New Zealand. I would like to ask you a question and please don't take it the wrong way - Are you not generalising a little bit because of one or two negative experiences? I don't know the New Zealand Church but I cant see it being common practice in every church that people are hauled up to the front in every church to be publicly embarressed over their financial giving. Is it really something that "happens in NZ". If so that is horrendous.

As for Christianity in Australia, from wikipedia

In the 21st century, religion in Australia is predominantly Christian. In the 2011 Census, 61.14% of the Australian population were recorded as adhering to Christianity. Historically the percentage has been far higher and the religious landscape of Australia is diversifying, along with multicultural immigration and 22.3% of people with no religious affiliation.^[1] 22.3% of Australians declared "no-religion" on the 2011 Census, and a further 8.55% did not answer the question.^[1] The remaining population is a diverse group which includes Buddhist (2.46%), Islamic (2.21%), Hindu (1.28%) and Jewish (0.45%) communities. The Constitution of Australia of 1901 prohibits the Commonwealth government from establishing a church or interfering with the freedom of religion.

Now as to comments about abuse of children. The Australian government has just begun a Royal Enquiry in sexual abuse by all organisations over the last half century including the church. It is a three year process which will no doubt will see plenty of cases being discussed in the media. Is the Australian Church any different to other countries. I don't think so. Cases of abuse of vulnerable people by the church is present in every country.

[Tsunabi]

Hi :-)

I am a Christian in Brissie. There are many Christian churches here. I attend Bible study with a group ouf Saffa moms every second Monday (you are welcome to join us if you want :-) ). We are all from different Christian churches all over the Southside of Brissie. Send me a PM when you get here :-)

[Springjock]

I wouldn't use the number of churches and church-goers as a barometer of the prevalence of Christianity either.

Australia is founded on Christian principles and as I've said in a post on another topic, the average Aussie is an extremely friendly, charitable, helpful and non-judgemental kind of person. If you live your life according to Christian principals, then you won't be disappointed by Australia.

Some of the most wicked, unpleasant back-stabbers I've ever known in my life have been church-goers (in South Africa). Perhaps they need it the most........

[AndreaL]

My experiences have been much like Springjocks, hence i have become comfortable with terming myself a pantheist.

I do hope you have better experience of churches, I would imagine that you try a few until you get one that fits you best.

[Mara]

You get churches and then you get churches. There are so many around, each having their own set of rules and regulations. You need to "church" around, until you find one where you feel comfortable.

I attend the local Baptist Church and have found them very welcoming and caring, with none of what you describe going on.

[PrissyMissy]

Hi All

Nice to be getting views from every angle.

It does not seem to matter which area you live in - I have heard the same 'comments' about 'walk of shame to the front of the church' from both poor and rich people. I was just so disgusted that this would even happen in church - I have heard this more than a dozen times now.

I have also encountered many 'back stabbers' that call themselve Christians in SA and that is very off putting.

I am just hoping that we can meet other 'like minded' people that have similar views as ours.

Would be nice to hear what churches are like in Brisbane overall.

thanks.

[MrsvW]

Miss Prissy

If you can, find out about Hillsong Church, if you like your church to be charismatic, vibrant and open to the Holy Spirit's working. I remember attending them in the UK and absolutely loved being part of their "family". Very caring and generous and also very dedicated to the children and their activities. What they did over there was have a satelite church in the smaller towns, so perhaps you will find they work in the same way there!

We will most definitely look into this when we get there.

[elleneo]

Interesting topic...

I move in the Catholic circles..in the 2011 census 25.3% of australians identified themselves as catholic...ive never seen nor heard of any "walk of shame" in my 33 years as a practicing catholic...

My daughter attends Catholic school and religious education is a subject she does at school. Christmas concerts are that...a concert to celebrate the birth of Christ...we have weekly mass (handy as then on Sunday's you can sleep in) and although we dont wear our beliefs on our sleeves it is very bonding and a great way to meet people to attend mass and be involved in school and church activities.

There are plenty of anglican, uniting church and baptist schools to choose from, should catholicism not appeal to you, eg PLC pymble ladies college.

My aunt is married to a minister (formerly employed byoa charismatic church in Logan, Brisbane, citipointe ministries..lovely warm environment...perhaps give them a try..they not such a "Big" church but are affiliated with the founding church in Texas.

[Guest May]

All I can say having come from the biggest catholic community in Jozi I am sad to say that the catholic church masses I have attended in Indooroopilly and Kenmore are very quiet 30% sometimes, maybe parents make a plan and go to the schools for mass I am hoping.

[Bams]

What an interesting topic, I dont have any comments as I am not in Aus (yet), but will definitely follow this one...

[sianvz]

Being Christians and having lived in the South West of Australia for 10 months was quite difficult for us. There was an Anglican church right next to a Freemasons Lodge (eek!) and then another more casual church that only met once a month (huh?) then some other church that was a "universal" church (never plucked up the courage to discover what the church believed in as it looked a bit like a cult vibe).

Sure we could have maybe driven 30min to Busselton or an hour to Bunbury to go to church but we rather decided to tune in to our church back home's website and listen to the Sunday sermons online.

If there is a Hillsong church around, we would definitely go for that as we watch it on tv sometimes here at home and really enjoy it and agree with the principals etc. Not to say all Hillsong churches operate the same.

But generally where we were there was absolutely no church or Christian culture among our friends. My husband casually mentioned being a Christian once to a girl who he worked with because he told her how we had avoided lived together until we moved to Australia despite being together for 5 years, because we didn't believe it was the right thing to do until we were married. He ended up having a long conversation with her because she was so intrigued that we are Christians and wanted to know what it means to us and how does it affect our lives.

It just wasn't in their culture and upbringing. May be different in other parts of Australia...

The stories of the NZ churches sound dreadful! Makes me so mad to hear that.

Edited March 1, 2013 by sianvz

[HansaPlease]

Being Christians and having lived in the South West of Australia for 10 months was quite difficult for us. There was an Anglican church right next to a Freemasons Lodge (eek!) and then another more casual church that only met once a month (huh?) then some other church that was a "universal" church (never plucked up the courage to discover what the church believed in as it looked a bit like a cult vibe

...but at the end of the day you remembered that Christianity is all about tolerance so none of the above bothered you, right?

[AndreaL]

I had to laugh, my brother is a Freemason in Newcastle, South Africa and is married to a catholic girl. We just have to remember that Australia is a very inclusive society where all are free to practice their religion and political beliefs.

Again, it is all about experimenting until you get something that fits your life and philosophy.

[Mara]

Andrea, I have to join the club, I am a definite practicing Christian, and horrors, my husband is a Freemason and has been for many years. He is the kindest, most giving, and caring man you could find....

I think folk sometimes give the Freemasons a bad rap, because they do not really know anything about it.

[OubaasDik]

Andrea, I have to join the club, I am a definite practicing Christian, and horrors, my husband is a Freemason and has been for many years. He is the kindest, most giving, and caring man you could find....

I think folk sometimes give the Freemasons a bad rap, because they do not really know anything about it.

I saw the OP above and wondered about it.

My Dad used to be a Freemason (he still has some of his regalia), and the one thing he did tell me was to be a mason you had to believe in one God. Multiple gods not allowed, no gods not allowed.

[AndreaL]

Freemasonry is very misunderstood. it probably started in Scotland between 1200 and 1400 and members must practice tolerance, respect, charity, kindness and care and believe in a supreme being. The supreme being is not identified, hence men of all races and religions can join the Freemasons.

I come from a Protestant background, however my Dad didn't have us christened as he believed that we should be free to choose our own faith, and that we should live our lives in a moral and decent way with respect and tolerance for all, he particularly did not support the sectarian violence that makes up a large part of Scotland's history between the Catholics and the Protestants.

So, I eschew any religion that promotes exclusion based on different faith, creed etc or is overly political, after all isn't the route of most wars and atrocities both?

My uncle is a pastoral leader at Hope City Church in Leeds, UK and somehow my family has managed to be respectful and supportive of the variety of people and belief systems that hold us all together as an extended family.

Sorry to bore you all, but I think if you all now a little more about me, you"ll understand why tolerance and respect are so important to me, and why I believe that we can talk about these kind of things in a decent and respectful manner.

I have great faith in my fellow forumites and each should be able to share their life journey without fear of judgement.

[Ajay]

My dad is a Freemason and as a group, they were incredibly kind to us when we moved to South Africa and had no support systems and late when my dad lost his job and wow had no income. I was raised a catholic otherwise, but stopped practising many years ago. I've raised my boys in no particular religion, but with a strong sense if morality and tolerance and on their own, they have joined churches. My older son is a youth leader at the local Uniting Church (which I think is similar to Presbyterian) and my younger son has been going to Hillsong for the last month or so. I don't attend any church but have my own personal relationship with my God, and I am completely open to the idea of my children forming their own relationship with their God too.

My experience is that Australia has a much broader, more widespread religious spine through it than what I was aware of in SA, but it is more fragmented, with lots of people practising lots if things but being mostly tolerant about others' choice too.

Cheers

Ajay

[OubaasDik]

Interestingly in WA about two years ago, I was driving behind a guy in a ute who had stickers all over it advertising that he worshipped Odin.

Just interesting.

[AndreaL]

Interestingly in WA about two years ago, I was driving behind a guy in a ute who had stickers all over it advertising that he worshipped Odin.

Just interesting.

Aha the forgotten Norse Gods. People forget that many of the pagan rituals and festivals like Eostre and Samhain are now incorporated into the Christian calendar. We all descend from agriculturist's who depended on the seasons and celebrated them accordingly.

[Mara]

I concur with Ajay, about the Freemasons being caring people. When we first moved to New Zealand, we were welcomed with open arms by the Freemasons, they arranged a place for us to stay for the first three weeks and took us under their wing, to explain all the ins and outs to us.

Unfortunately for us our move took place way before the internet even existed.