Churches in Australia/Belief in God

[Sunnyskies]

...... if the Masons want to make men better men, they should put their minds to correcting the gender bias that exists in society, as men will only be better men when they are willing to consider the woman standing next to them as their equal in all respects, and not a "special" sub-species that has a "special job in life".

Note: edited, as I really don't feel like having the debate of the sexes. But I've left the comment that applies to the Masons as that is in response to Springjock's comment.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Sunnyskies

[Fish]

...Apologies to men who don't fall into any of the aforementioned categories, but you really are in the minority...

I know it varies but I must say that most of my friends don't publicly fall into the categories you listed. I guess I'm not friends with that many extra-conservative people though so they obviously would not be representative of everyone...

Edited March 3, 2013 by Fish

[Sunnyskies]

Fish - I've taken the comment off as there is no point in the debate.

[Springjock]

I think you've taken this a bit too far, Sunnyskies. Lets keep the conversation mature and sensible. No need to attack people you don't know.

[benp]

Life is full of barriers. We can't all have access to everything.

One of the dumbest comment you've made.

What,full of make-believe, chauvinistic, offensive and archaic barriers created by men 800 years ago to exclude women???

And you do not see the problem with this???

What the hell, let's all go back to caves!!!

[Renny]

I am going back to the actual topic. . . Asking about Christian churches in Aus especially Brisbane. When we went to visit aus last year we attended church with my brother and wife that lives there. Our whole family went to visit as it was my brothers wedding. The people at the church was amazing. When we were introduced everybody started hugging us and was so happy that the family of one of their members came to visit. So many of them where at the wedding and spent time with us during our visit there. They really are a great support group and a wonderful bunch of people. My experience was that the Christians at that church where great people. The church was almost exactly the same as the one we attend here in CT.

[Mikej]

Ha Ha who would have thought that gender issues and not religious ones would risk getting this topic quarantined in the cooler?

I'm going to chuck my hat in with the ladies, there is always something a bit off about organisations that exclude women or reserve appointments for men only. Their corridors and halls have that musty odour of impending death about them.

[OnYellowBrickRd]

@Renny. What was the name of the church you visited and where in Brisbane was it located?

[PrissyMissy]

I cannot believe how off topic this subject has gone - .....

Renny please pm me the church you visited in Brisbane for my future references.

thanks.

[Renny]

Sorry should have mentioned the church was not in brisbane but on the gold coast somewhere in the area of Robina. Half of the time I had no idea where we were. We did not do our own trip planning but only went along to where they took us so I was lost half the time. I will find out from them as they have been living there for 6 years. Maby they have friends in Brisbane or know of similar churches in the area. It was not a traditional church but more like a "AGS" type

[Renny]

Sorry should have mentioned the church was not in brisbane but on the gold coast somewhere in the area of Robina. Half of the time I had no idea where we were. We did not do our own trip planning but only went along to where they took us so I was lost half the time. I will find out from them as they have been living there for 6 years. Maby they have friends in Brisbane or know of similar churches in the area. It was not a traditional church but more like a "AGS" type

[AndreaL]

Most of the South Africans in Moranbah attend Oasis Life Church http://www.oasislife.com/

I'm not sure if there are branches throughout Australia. I've worked with Pastor Trevor on various committees and he is a lovely man.

[heidim]

We have been in Brisbane for 5 months and this is my perception of christianity here in Brissie. Most people are not religious although the majority of private schools around here are linked to some type of religion and people love sending their kids to christian schools. So even if kids are attending a christian school it does not mean that they or their parents are christians. Many times they like the values and since it doesn't get taught at home, they send them to christian schools to teach them the values. There are no religious magazines available in Brisbane on the shelves. When someone at our church asked a 30-year old lady at a book store where she can buy a Bible, the lady didn't know what it was. People who go to the more charismatic churches seem to be quite open and sharing their religion. The Lutheran and Catholic churches have lots of churches around.

Everything depends on where you want to live and what type of church you are interested in. We visited Vineyard, Hillsong and City Point and then we settled with Axis Wesleyan Methodist church simply because it is close to where we live and of course because we like the church. All the other churches we visited were also lovely though. And the Saffers at these churches are really awesome, very welcoming and you are immediately part of the Saffer family.

Good luck!

[AndreaL]

Many people choose to send their children to Christian or Catholic schools because they are non-government or private schools but without the price tag associated with private schools. The first school my daughter attended in Perth was a Catholic school. Catholics and siblings of children already in the school are usually enrolled before non-Catholic enrolees.

I have to say the school my daughter was at were fantastic with me, but I think that is because the head and her family had a long history of helping migrant families. They were even good enough to help me out with the school fees as wee were on a very low income at the time.

[Dieter7]

Hi

We have moved from NZ (Auckland - North Shore) to Sydney last year. We were at the afrikaans church on the North Shore. It was great, the kids went to Sunday school, met a lot of wonderful people.

I must admit I also found that in NZ not a lot of people went to church and if you did not teach your kids on your own about religion or send them to Sunday school, there is no religion. In that church you gave what you can. Outside from church there were not a lot of talk about church or God at all.

Now in Sydney we visited a few churches. The afrikaans one in Roseville, Every Nation in Seven Hills, Christian Reformed church in castle Hill and Vineyard church near Windsor. All of them are totally different but all made us feel welcomed in their own way. I think the people here are a lot more open with their religion and do believe in God and do go to church.

I think you will easily find a church here that you like and be at ease joining in.

Sorry I cannot comment on Brisbane.

[elleneo]

As with Dieter, there are loads of South African families in the Hills district,many of whom are churchgoers...as for brisbane, Im sure you will find a church that you like, there are plenty to choose from.

[Mikej]

So even if kids are attending a christian school it does not mean that they or their parents are christians. Many times they like the values and since it doesn't get taught at home, they send them to christian schools to teach them the values.

This is a common accusation levelled at atheists by Christians. We have no values and without the influence of benevolent Christians we would fall into the abyss of moral dissolution. Unnecessary as it is to point it out I am in any case going to state the obvious, that this is a deeply offensive thing to say or suggest. Christians take it for granted that they hold the moral high ground but what they don't realise is that others such as myself have an altogether different view. A view we generally keep to ourselves for fear of causing offense, a fear not shared by most Christians as evinced by the quoted post.

I am going to offer my point of view in good faith and without rancour. Hopefully we can stay out of the cooler and others will accept this not as a polemic but rather a dialectic where we can share opinions and learn something of each other.

Undoubtedly this will come as a surprise to most Christians but people such as myself consider Christianity to be an immoral and wicked doctrine. I will not explain further for the moment but if you read your bible in it's entirety and apply reason and good sense the only possible conclusion is that this collection of books is a moral vacuum. Here I am not referring to obscure events in the bible but the core doctrines of both the Old and New Testaments. I hold myself to a higher standard than the values of the Christian bible.

This opinion is limited to the bible and it's doctrines and does not extend to Christians themsleves. Almost all the Christians I know are good people but they are good in spite of the Christian doctrine and not because of it.

If others on this forum can accept my motive in the good faith it is offered and are interested in further discussion I will elaborate and give specific examples.

Before the moderators warn me or worse please consider that this post is in response to the opinion of heidim that we, non-Christians have no values to teach our children.

[AndreaL]

My experience of parents who choose to send their children to a school that has a religious connection is that as said before, you get private school quality without the price tag. There is an assumption that the teachers are of a better quality. There is usually more funding associated with these schools due to funding from the supporting religious group. so facilities are better.

The schools generally perform better in terms of NAPLAN results, of course this may be because they control the admission of students and can turn away those without good results.

My thoughts are...there are higher numbers of migrant children in these type of schools, particularly children from Asian backgrounds, as migrants generally place a higher emphasis on education. Also in the case of children from non - English speaking backgrounds, it is essential that the child is well educated, as they often have to help the parents with anything that requires English language skills, form filling and so on.

There are usually a number of children from 457 visa parents, again educated parents will want good education for their children.

I would prefer to think that Heidim's comment is not intended as an indictment on non-Christians and in fact have heard many parents who are not religious say that they like the schools because there is order and good discipline, without suggesting that they as parents cannot supply this.

[HansaPlease]

Undoubtedly this will come as a surprise to most Christians but people such as myself consider Christianity to be an immoral and wicked doctrine. I will not explain further for the moment but if you read your bible in it's entirety and apply reason and good sense the only possible conclusion is that this collection of books is a moral vacuum. Here I am not referring to obscure events in the bible but the core doctrines of both the Old and New Testaments. I hold myself to a higher standard than the values of the Christian bible.

This opinion is limited to the bible and it's doctrines and does not extend to Christians themsleves. Almost all the Christians I know are good people but they are good in spite of the Christian doctrine and not because of it.

If others on this forum can accept my motive in the good faith it is offered and are interested in further discussion I will elaborate and give specific examples.

.

I for one would be interested to hear your theories. It's a subject that I'm quite interested in. For what it's worth I'm not quite sure where I am on the scale between christian and atheist. I've never been particularly sure. Part of me wants to believe but the other thinks that logic and science make more sense to me than something we cannot see. I enjoy hearing both sides of the story. Perhaps one day I'll have it figured out.

[AndreaL]

Guys, can I ask that if you do decide to debate and discuss further, that you start another thread in the same way that Springjock did for Freemasonry?

I think that if you continue in this one titled " Churches in Australia/ belief in God, we are now at risk of getting so far away from the o.p. which was effectively to ask about churches in Australia. Also I think it will turn into an argument. If you start another thread and title it appropriately, then those who don't wish to read it can choose to do so.

I want to encourage freedom of speech and love discussions about alternate philosophies on life, the universe and everything in between, but feel that this thread should perhaps be kept for those who have questions about practising religion in Australia......what do you think?

[Renny]

Before the moderators warn me or worse please consider that this post is in response to the opinion of heidim that we, non-Christians have no values to teach our children.

I am sure she did not say that all non-Christians have no values. Why do you become so affensive when she did not mention you or your religion? From your post you already hold yourself higher than the Christian Bible, by doing this you are already looking down on Christians in general. Nobody is looking down on anybody here or holding them higher than the other.

If I had a choice to send my kid to a place that they teach something that I consider as important, but I did not have the time/knowledge/drive/experience to teach it to them, then I would let someone else teach it to them. Do we not all want the best for our kids? If someone else can offer them that, then why would you not give them that?

[HansaPlease]

I want to encourage freedom of speech and love discussions about alternate philosophies on life, the universe and everything in between, but feel that this thread should perhaps be kept for those who have questions about practising religion in Australia......what do you think?

Absolutely agree!

[AndreaL]

Perhaps I should brush up on when to use the word practice or the word practise too

[benp]

If I had a choice to send my kid to a place that they teach something that I consider as important, but I did not have the time/knowledge/drive/experience to teach it to them, then I would let someone else teach it to them. Do we not all want the best for our kids? If someone else can offer them that, then why would you not give them that?

A bit off topic but YOU must teach your kids, first and foremost, through your actions and behaviour. Family values are taught at home, not school, church or any other place.

All else is just an addition and affirmation of what you taught them from early age. Parent is not replaceble. Not by school, not by church, not by anyone else.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Mara
changed 'thought' to 'taught' : Mara

[Jordy]

The rules stated at the top of this thread of our forum are very specific about this discussion:

Please Read Before Posting This Spiritual Life sub-forum is for the asking and receiving of spiritual support during the emigration process. All expressions of faiths are welcome. Feel free to ask for and receive prayers, words of encouragement, spiritual inspiration and so on.
The debating of religious and moral ideas, insightful topics, etc is strictly prohibited and all such topics will be removed immediately without explanation. As people believe in different faiths, a high level of tolerance and understanding is required. If you do not practice the same faith as the thread starter, please refrain from posting in the thread.

There will be no discussion /debate etc at all on religion, atheism etc It simple is not allowed on this forum. I will remove any response to this topic that does not address the original posters question. Please don't argue with me about this. We have this rule for a reason. This is not a religious debate forum. We are an immigration forum. If you wish to debate religion or any other spiritual topic please feel free to find a forum that focuses on that issue. END OF DISCUSSION.