Retention Of Citizenship

[Mara]

If you have lived in Australia, full time, since your arrival, there is no need for a police clearance when you apply for citizenship. That is my understanding...

In our case, as we migrated to NZ, obtained citizenship there, then moved to Australia, the Aus Government obtained a clearance for from NZ for our time spent there, and because they held our police clearances from RSA.

HANSA : Congratulations maaaaaaaaaaaaate!!!!!!!!!!!

[HansaPlease]

Thanks Mara.

That was the reason, spot on, I couldn't quite remember the reason for not having to do PC...

[andrea_vk]

Thanks Hansa and Mara

I would probably need a police clearance, since after validating my visa went back and lived in SA for another 3 years.

Thanks

Andrea

[Riekie]

I must be the odd one out but I chose to relinquish my RSA citizenship for a few reasons:

I have no intention of ever returning to RSA. Not for a visit. Not to live.

I don't have the energy to deal with the red-tape and beauraucracy in RSA in order to retain my citizenship, renew my passports everytime they expire and re-apply to retain my citizenship every 5 years etc etc. Just getting a simple birth certificate took more than 2 years and 3 attempts, and it is still wrong!

If I retain my RSA citizenship and I do ever want to / have to return to RSA for any reason, I will have to travel on my RSA passport in which case, Australia will have no right to assist or retrieve me should the sh!t hit the fan while I'm there.

If I don't retain my RSA citizenship and I do ever want to / have to travel to RSA, I can just do it on my Aussie passport, no problem.

I don't need a piece of paper to tell me where my roots are, and I don't want a piece of paper to prevent me from looking forward and moving on. I'm a South African born Australian and proudly so (for both parts).

That's just me and just my personal opinion. I don't think it is wrong to want to keep it, I just thought I'd share my own reasons for not retaining my RSA citizenship.

PS: Congratulations on the Citizenship HansaPlease! So happy for you! Wow, what a long road it's been.

[AndreaL]

Congratulations on the citizenship HansaPlease.................boffin

I am writing mine on Feb 9th, so I hope it goes as quickly as yours and then I can defer my Uni debt this year

Do they ask the same questions that are on the citizenship website ( the four sets of five practice questions)

I've already bought the Australian flag stubby holders in anticipation...............

[21yearsoutofrsa]

I think I read that there is a poll of 200 questions and 20 are picked at random for each test. There are a few (rights and obligations) that you have to get 100% correct, and there are 4 of those (I think).

When I did the test a couple of years ago it took me 15 minutes of admin before the test 2 minutes 27 seconds to do the test and get 100% and 5 minutes of admin after the test.

I read the book they have twice before the test. Having an understanding of the Westminster system before did help.

[AndreaL]

I think I read that there is a poll of 200 questions and 20 are picked at random for each test. There are a few (rights and obligations) that you have to get 100% correct, and there are 4 of those (I think).

When I did the test a couple of years ago it took me 15 minutes of admin before the test 2 minutes 27 seconds to do the test and get 100% and 5 minutes of admin after the test.

I read the book they have twice before the test. Having an understanding of the Westminster system before did help.

They've removed the mandatory questions in October 2009, the pass rate is now 75% not 60%, so I just wondered if there were any other changes

[NotLookingBack]

I must be the odd one out but I chose to relinquish my RSA citizenship for a few reasons:

I have no intention of ever returning to RSA. Not for a visit. Not to live.

I don't have the energy to deal with the red-tape and beauraucracy in RSA in order to retain my citizenship, renew my passports everytime they expire and re-apply to retain my citizenship every 5 years etc etc. Just getting a simple birth certificate took more than 2 years and 3 attempts, and it is still wrong!

If I retain my RSA citizenship and I do ever want to / have to return to RSA for any reason, I will have to travel on my RSA passport in which case, Australia will have no right to assist or retrieve me should the sh!t hit the fan while I'm there.

If I don't retain my RSA citizenship and I do ever want to / have to travel to RSA, I can just do it on my Aussie passport, no problem.

I don't need a piece of paper to tell me where my roots are, and I don't want a piece of paper to prevent me from looking forward and moving on. I'm a South African born Australian and proudly so (for both parts).

That's just me and just my personal opinion. I don't think it is wrong to want to keep it, I just thought I'd share my own reasons for not retaining my RSA citizenship.

PS: Congratulations on the Citizenship HansaPlease! So happy for you! Wow, what a long road it's been.

Ditto, same here!!

[Mara]

Riekie, you are not alone, we all relinquished our RSA citizenship as well, did not see a need for it as we had absolutely not intentions of every living there again and although we visit, we also prefer to do so on our Aussie passports.

[HansaPlease]

PS: Congratulations on the Citizenship HansaPlease! So happy for you! Wow, what a long road it's been.

Thanks Riekie.

I can appreciate your reasons for not wanting to keep your SA citizenship. At the moment it's a personal thing for me, I still consider myself to be mostly South African, but every time I jump through the silly retention hoop, or have to wait months and months for a new passport, or for that matter, have to deal with any South African home affairs/consular department, I wonder whether it's all worth the effort.

Anyway, I digress. For the moment, we still visit SA every couple of years (it used to be once or twice a year, it's now becoming once every three years or so), but I think somewhere along the line I might get a bit fed up with it all and I might relinquish my citizenship. I spent 20 years in SA, 7 in the UK and 5 in Aus, so maybe once the Aus years start catching up, I'll feel less South African.

[Superkruz]

As it happens, I received my letter from the Australian government today saying that my Aus citizenship has been granted.

This is incorrect as Citizenship is only granted when you attend a citizenship ceremony and make a pledge of commitment to Australia.

The letter you are referring to is merely one that says your application is approved - it does not grant citizenship.

[HansaPlease]

This is incorrect as Citizenship is only granted when you attend a citizenship ceremony and make a pledge of commitment to Australia.

The letter you are referring to is merely one that says your application is approved - it does not grant citizenship.

Same thing different spelling - I know what you mean, I'm aware that I'm not a citizen until I have attended the ceremony, I probably should have chose my words differently, like: "application has been accepted"...

[Enrica]

Splitting hairs, wow what a sensative bunch. Congrats Hansa on obtaining your Aussie Citizenship good onya mate !!!!

[Riekie]

I can appreciate your reasons for not wanting to keep your SA citizenship. At the moment it's a personal thing for me, I still consider myself to be mostly South African...

...so maybe once the Aus years start catching up, I'll feel less South African.

For me, it did change over time. Initially I thought I'd retain my RSA citizenship, but when I got to making that decision, it was just easier not to. I'm not good in dealing with the Eish Nation....

[HansaPlease]

As it happens, I received my letter from the Australian government today saying that my Aus citizenship has been granted.

Thing is, before I crack open the champagne, I haven't yet received my retention of SA Citizenship permission letter, so before I can attend my Aus ceremony to make it official, I have to wait for my letter from the SA High Commission first (well, I don't have to, but as I would like to keep my SA citizenship, I want to)...

Watch this space...

Quick update. That was January.

I've now received my letter from the local council with my ceremony date. Thing is, I've still not received my retention letter from SA. At the time of applying for retention (October 2011) the waiting time was 3-4 months. They have now changed it to 3-6 months. I've emailed the SA Consulate to ask how it's going and they told me not to attend my Aus citizenship ceremony until I have received my letter, and that I "only applied in October, it can take 6 months".

(for the record, you apply for retention from SA Consulate in Canberra and it is sent to home affairs in Pretoria for processing)

I'm going to have to post-pone my ceremony until I get my retention letter, otherwise I will lose my SA citizenship.

Aah, the slowness of home affairs almost makes me nostalgic.

[Superkruz]

the waiting time was 3-4 months. They have now changed it to 3-6 months.

This is crazy! In 2007,when I applied for retention of citizenship, it took 10 days from the day that I sent my application to the day I received the approval letter.

[HansaPlease]

This is crazy! In 2007,when I applied for retention of citizenship, it took 10 days from the day that I sent my application to the day I received the approval letter.

Ridiculous isn't it. I applied in 2005 as well, and I think it took 2 weeks in the UK.

6 months to write a letter. Seriously?!

[21yearsoutofrsa]

Looks like they want to loose citizens.

At the end of the day the citzens they lose don't vote for the ANC.

Let's face it, a lt of people will not be prepared to wait..

[SANZOZ]

Here is a question.... does this letter granting dual citizenship from SA expire at all? Is it something we could apply for way ahead of time? I am just thinking we do not want to have this kind of drama and my hubby is still hooked on retaining SA citizenship as well.

[HansaPlease]

Looks like they want to loose citizens.

At the end of the day the citzens they lose don't vote for the ANC.

Let's face it, a lt of people will not be prepared to wait..

I have to admit, I almost decided not to wait and to just drop my SA, but I still feel the need to keep it...

It gets better, if you want to officially renounce your SA citizenship, the letter for that takes 9 months!

[MrsMupersan]

It gets better, if you want to officially renounce your SA citizenship, the letter for that takes 9 months!

This is the bit that confuses me.... In order to hold dual citizenship, you have to apply to do this. But then you also have to apply to renounce your citizenship. So what actually happens if you don't apply for either???? Do you, or don't you, have citizenship of ZA?

[21yearsoutofrsa]

The South African Citizenship Act provides for retention of South African citizenship PRIOR to the acquisition of a foreign citizenship. A condition of attaining dual citizenship for all South African citizens aged 18 years or older is that they must apply and be granted permission to retain their South African citizenship prior to the acquisition of a foreign citizenship.

If a South African citizen does not obtain this prior permission they will automatically lose their South African citizenship on voluntary acquisition of a foreign citizenship.

http://www.sahc.org....Citizenship.htm

Very clear in my opionion

When I'm asked what citizenships I have I no longer put down South African

You can of course renounce citizenship for other reasons other than aquiring another citizenship of another country.

[HansaPlease]

This is the bit that confuses me.... In order to hold dual citizenship, you have to apply to do this. But then you also have to apply to renounce your citizenship. So what actually happens if you don't apply for either???? Do you, or don't you, have citizenship of ZA?

This confused me as well. If you don't apply for either then you automatically lose your South African citizenship. But then that's the same thing as applying to renounce your citizenship? So why do they have a renounce option when you lose it anyway?

It says on the SA High Commission site that if you apply to renounce you will get a letter which allows you to enter/leave SA on your foreign passport "without penalty" I don't understand how this is different to turning up in South African on your foreign passport if you didn't renounce and lost your citizenship automatically.

I'm at a loss too. Here's the link for the record.

http://www.sahc.org.au/citizenship/Renunciation.htm

[21yearsoutofrsa]

you can renounce for another reason. the act has to take into account ALL situations, not just citizenship by naturalization.

If you are a South African by birth and a Brit by decent you are a dual national, but NOT by naturalisation,.

Under these circumstances you may decide to renounce your RSA citizenship (you don't like the international policies, whatever reason). In this case you will have to renounce, there is no automatic option.

There are provisions within the act that makes it impossible for you to become "stateless". Ie you cannot renounce your RSA citizenship unless you are a citizen of another country

[HansaPlease]

Quick update. That was January.

I've now received my letter from the local council with my ceremony date. Thing is, I've still not received my retention letter from SA. At the time of applying for retention (October 2011) the waiting time was 3-4 months. They have now changed it to 3-6 months. I've emailed the SA Consulate to ask how it's going and they told me not to attend my Aus citizenship ceremony until I have received my letter, and that I "only applied in October, it can take 6 months".

(for the record, you apply for retention from SA Consulate in Canberra and it is sent to home affairs in Pretoria for processing)

I'm going to have to post-pone my ceremony until I get my retention letter, otherwise I will lose my SA citizenship.

Aah, the slowness of home affairs almost makes me nostalgic.

And the final update - I received my retention of citizenship letter yesterday from Home Affairs and I have my Australian Citizenship Ceremony tomorrow night!

A summary:

Applied for retention in October 2011

Applied for Citizenship December 2011

Wrote Citizenship Test January 2012

Received Retention Letter from Home Affairs March 2012 (yes, 5 months for a letter)

Citizenship Ceremony March 2012

Hope this helps those who are in the process.

And I guess the answer to the question: Is it possible to have South African, British and Australian Citizenship at the same time, is a resounding YES!