Retention Of Citizenship

[Superkruz]

Does anybody know whether SA allows you to retain SA citizen if you get citizenship of a third country - ie if you already hold SA and Australian citizenship and want to get another one.

[zoot]

havent heard of anyone having any such problem - there are many people who already hold dual citizenship either through descent or through marriage and then acquire an additional citizenship.

[Feetjie]

Suzy, go easy on me here. This is what I said : : "I was born there, lived there most of my life, my daugther, brother and sisters live there, so I guess I still want to maintain some "official connection". Who knows what might happen in the future when we grow old... we might want to move back to SA (unlikely, I know, but possible), so having the citizenship kind of maintains that emotional connection for me"

I would not regard myself as being dedicated to SA but I do, and always will, have some connection with SA in the same way I will always have a certain kind of love towards the mother of my children, even though things went pear-shaped and we divorced many years ago. I still love her for the children we have... in the same way I still love SA because it is the country where I was born, the memory of good times I had there, the fact that my precious daughter still lives there, etc. It does not mean I want to live there at the moment, just like I dont want to re-marry my ex at the moment, but I can still love it and have fonds memories of it.

Just like you, I came to Aus for a better life and all the good things it offers and I am proud to be an Aussie citizen. I settled in well and hardly ever think about my life back in SA, ie I've moved on. At the same time though, if I had a magic wand and could fix all SA's problems today I will be back there tomorrow - maybe you don't feel the same but I suspect there are many South Africans all over the world that feel the same as me.

I suppose I feel that I am a South African living in Australia. My Australian passport just allows me to live here for as long as I like, it allows me to write "Australian" on forms asking for my nationality, but deep down in my soul, I am still, and will always be, a South African. Maybe it would have felt different if I moved here when I was a child, or if my parents were Aussies, but I was 44 years old. I love Australia and will never say bad things about it but in my heart I am just a South African who lives here, and I dont think that will ever change, no matter how bad things become in SA or how great Australia, or any other country for that matter, is.

As a parent I will always love my children, despite any faults they have, simply because they are my flesh & blood. They might do bad things, make me angry, but I will still love them. In the same way I have a special place in my heart for SA, despite its faults, simply because I am South African - thats it.

If I move to the USA, for example, and a Yank asks me "what are you"? I could answer Australian or I could say South African, because I am a citizen of both countries. The truth is I will never be an Australian. If an Indian person was born in India and lived there until he was 50 years old, then lives in China for a number of years, does that make him Chinese? Certainly not - he is still an Indian. He might even have a British passport, live in China, but he is still an Indian. In the same way I am a South African, regardless of where I live or the passport that I carry.

That is why I want to have a South African passport - because I am a South African. Other people might think I'm silly, but on this topic I honestly don't care what they think, just like they should not care what I think when they make their decision on this matter.

I hope you now have a better understanding of how I feel.

You even made me emotional - this is the Superkruz I know ....

[Enrica]

This would be true if there was an expiry date, but there isn't. Once the application is approved it remain valid indefinitely.

My Dual Nationalality Certificate was issued with a 5 year validity, and I have to re-apply every 5 years!!! Which is a nuisance

[Superkruz]

My Dual Nationalality Certificate was issued with a 5 year validity, and I have to re-apply every 5 years!!! Which is a nuisance

This is the first time I heard of this. Does this means you have to re-apply every 5 years or does it mean you have to acquire the other citizenship within 5 years? If it is the former, it will be a real pain!

[Superkruz]

- You don't need SA citizenship to hold a bank account in SA.

- You have to apply for a blocked bank account, it does not automatically happen

Suzi, I agree that you dont need SA citizenship to have a bank account in SA. Many South Africans, who are not Australian citizens, have bank accounts in Australia, so the same logic would apply in SA, I assume. Since citizenship is not the deciding factor, what is? Is it perhaps residency - ie people who live, or have the right to live, in SA?

About the blocked account - Would you please send me a link to a website that confirms the fact that one has to apply for a blocked account, and that it does not happen automatically?

I had a look at the SA reserve bank website and found some information in section T of the exchange control manual of the SARB. It seems to indicate the opposite to what you have said but I am not sure whether I am interpreting this correctly - please help!!

Par 6.2.5.2 of the manual states: "Persons regarded as South African residents (see definition in Section A), who are leaving the Republic to take up permanent residence in any country outside the CMA may, before departure, apply to an Authorised Dealer for emigration facilities."

Par 6.2.5.8 then states:

"Control of blocked South African assets : After having been accorded the applicable emigration facilities the remaining South African assets of the emigrant must be brought under the physical control of the Authorised Dealer concerned. This action is to ensure that all capital accruing after date of emigration and the proceeds of any asset subsequently sold, are placed to the credit of a blocked account with the Authorised Dealer concerned.

Physical control should be exercised in the manner indicated below:

Banking accounts - All banking accounts must be designated "emigrant's blocked"

[Chocolate]

Hi Guys,

Please excuse my ignorance!

Do we have to apply to retain SA citizenship if we

plan to officially emigrate? (Officially emigrating so we can

take out/transfer our pensions/retirement annuities etc)

And, what happens when you apply for Aus citizenship down the line?

Do you still get to keep SA citizenship or is that again a different

application?

Thanks

Chocolate

[Enrica]

This is the first time I heard of this. Does this means you have to re-apply every 5 years or does it mean you have to acquire the other citizenship within 5 years? If it is the former, it will be a real pain!

It means I have to renew my dual nationality with the SA Embassy every 5 years !!! Pain

[Enrica]

Hi Guys,

Please excuse my ignorance!

Do we have to apply to retain SA citizenship if we

plan to officially emigrate? (Officially emigrating so we can

take out/transfer our pensions/retirement annuities etc)

And, what happens when you apply for Aus citizenship down the line?

Do you still get to keep SA citizenship or is that again a different

application?

Thanks

Chocolate

Before you take out Australian Citizenship you need to apply for the retain your SA Citizenship, this can take between 2- 6 months. So Ideally before you are due for Australian Citizenship ie 6 months prior , if you are going to retain SA citizenship , it is adviseable to apply.

You cannot have taken Australian Citizenship and then apply,as the SA Authories require a letter from the Australian to confirm that you are not holding Australian Citizenship. We all know that the Australians will not issue a letter if you have applied for Aussie Citizenship. To retain your

SA Citizenship is a personal choice. Weather you migrate officially or not you would need to apply to retain your SA citizenship if you want to keep your passport

[Enrica]

- Just for the record, my Mother is Australian & she loved South Africa .... it also broke her heart to leave, but she is so grateful to be back. I was an Oz Citizen before I ever set foot in Oz, but I am so proud of my Ozzie passport .... & have no intention of ever renewing my SA one.

So my fellow Saffas, if you are proudly South African then stay there. If you are brave enough to make the move & become an Oz Ctizen, embrace your new life and your new and country with enthusiasm. Please don't winge about how pedantic the Aussies are ... ie... crossing the t's & dotting the i's because that is what makes this country work so well!!!

Dear SuzyQ

This is rather harsh and A TOTALLY UN-AUSTRALIAN comment. Having an Australian Passport doesnot make you a good Australian, Ozzies are tolerant of other people, their culture and beliefs. Because I choose to retain my SA Citizenship does not make me any less Australian than you or anyone else here. Becuase you had Aussie citizenship, you could probably never understand the stress and hoops that the rest of the Saffers had to jump through to get here.

Especially the costs involved .

As a good Aussie you should show a little more tolerance. A comment like "if you are proudly South African then you should stay there" is out of line. Shame on you fellow Aussie!!!

PS Why did you have a South African Passport in the first place?

[21yearsoutofrsa]

PS Why did you have a South African Passport in the first place?

Just like Australia, South African citizenship can be acquired by decent, or naturalization. It is not only birth that RSA citizenship can be acquired.

South African citizens may acquire RSA citizenship for their children by decent. Many people will obtain citizenship this way without even knowing it was done on their behalf by one, or both of their parents.

[Kit]

ag nee, so you have to renew it every 5 years - that doesn't seem right?!

[SuzyQ2]

Dear SuzyQ

This is rather harsh and A TOTALLY UN-AUSTRALIAN comment. Having an Australian Passport doesnot make you a good Australian, Ozzies are tolerant of other people, their culture and beliefs. Because I choose to retain my SA Citizenship does not make me any less Australian than you or anyone else here. Becuase you had Aussie citizenship, you could probably never understand the stress and hoops that the rest of the Saffers had to jump through to get here.

Especially the costs involved .

As a good Aussie you should show a little more tolerance. A comment like "if you are proudly South African then you should stay there" is out of line. Shame on you fellow Aussie!!!

PS Why did you have a South African Passport in the first place?

[/quote

Enrica, I was not nasty, merely stating fact, so perphaps you can lower your nasty tone a tad???? Guess I had to have a SA passport because I was born there & it's law?

My heart goes out to all the Saffas that have to jump thro the hoops, wish it was easier & wish there was a way that all our 'non-qualifying' friends could find a way in. Just for your info, I had major stress .....the invasion of personal privacy for Aussies to sponsor in their their spouses is also quite a hoop, if not worse!!!!!!!!! One of my best friends came in on a skills visa & trust me her personal questionnairre was not detai;ec like mine

I think you took my words out of context .... why would anybody be poudly South African & then want to leave ????

[SuzyQ2]

Suzi, I agree that you dont need SA citizenship to have a bank account in SA. Many South Africans, who are not Australian citizens, have bank accounts in Australia, so the same logic would apply in SA, I assume. Since citizenship is not the deciding factor, what is? Is it perhaps residency - ie people who live, or have the right to live, in SA?

About the blocked account - Would you please send me a link to a website that confirms the fact that one has to apply for a blocked account, and that it does not happen automatically?

I had a look at the SA reserve bank website and found some information in section T of the exchange control manual of the SARB. It seems to indicate the opposite to what you have said but I am not sure whether I am interpreting this correctly - please help!!

Par 6.2.5.2 of the manual states: "Persons regarded as South African residents (see definition in Section A), who are leaving the Republic to take up permanent residence in any country outside the CMA may, before departure, apply to an Authorised Dealer for emigration facilities."

Par 6.2.5.8 then states:

"Control of blocked South African assets : After having been accorded the applicable emigration facilities the remaining South African assets of the emigrant must be brought under the physical control of the Authorised Dealer concerned. This action is to ensure that all capital accruing after date of emigration and the proceeds of any asset subsequently sold, are placed to the credit of a blocked account with the Authorised Dealer concerned.

Physical control should be exercised in the manner indicated below:

Banking accounts - All banking accounts must be designated "emigrant's blocked"

[SuzyQ2]

You have to go to your individual bank & they will give you the forms

[HansaPlease]

why would anybody be poudly South African & then want to leave ????

Somebody on the forums a while ago said something that best sums up my reasons for this:

"Ï'm proudly South African, but I'm not proud of South Africa..."

[Superkruz]

You have to go to your individual bank & they will give you the forms

You're stating the obvious here and did not answer my question at all.

My question was for you to give me a reference to where I can verify that your opinion is correct as all the information I could find seems to disagree with what you said. I am not saying you're wrong, I am just asking you to prove your answer. Quite often people would post info on the forum based on something they heard from a friend of a friend etc, so I just want to be sure about the accuracy of what you've said. My question was:

Would you please send me a link to a website that confirms the fact that one has to apply for a blocked account, and that it does not happen automatically?

[Enrica]

Enrica, I was not nasty, merely stating fact, so perphaps you can lower your nasty tone a tad???? Guess I had to have a SA passport because I was born there & it's law?

My heart goes out to all the Saffas that have to jump thro the hoops, wish it was easier & wish there was a way that all our 'non-qualifying' friends could find a way in. Just for your info, I had major stress .....the invasion of personal privacy for Aussies to sponsor in their their spouses is also quite a hoop, if not worse!!!!!!!!! One of my best friends came in on a skills visa & trust me her personal questionnairre was not detai;ec like mine

I think you took my words out of context .... why would anybody be poudly South African & then want to leave ????

Dear SuzyQ ,

I was also not being nasty but merely stating a fact. The fact that one choose to leave their country of birth , does not mean that they have to give up their citizenship. Perhaps you need to choose your words more carefully "if you are proudly South African then you should stay there"- that comes across as hasty !!!

Just for information , even if you were born in SA , and you had citizenship of another country , you could choose not to have SA Citizenship and just be a permanent resident.This you would have decided at the age of 18 , becuase upto 18 you could have dual nationality with no probelems. Except that the Australians only allowed Dual Nationality from the year 2000. They did exactly what the America's did , their nationals could not have dual natioanlity.

Regarding your spouse/or partners application is just goes to prove how wonderfully efficient the Australians can be, they dont want people coming in that are married or defactos for the convience of a quick route to Australian residency.

I have to agree with Hansaplease

Ï'm proudly South African, but I'm not proud of South Africa..."

[IamInACT]

So my fellow Saffas, if you are proudly South African then stay there. If you are brave enough to make the move & become an Oz Ctizen, embrace your new life and your new and country with enthusiasm. Please don't winge about how pedantic the Aussies are ... ie... crossing the t's & dotting the i's because that is what makes this country work so well!!!

Well said ... why go through all the trouble of immigrating ????

[IamInACT]

One thing to consider ... I have been told that if you go to any country and entry on your South African passport and you hold an Australian Passport ... YOU CANNOT approach the Australian Embassy/High Commission in that country where you have entered for any assistance … I think I would place my bets with the Australian Embassy/High Commission. So if you enter SA and get into trouble to have nowhere to turn …

Open to correction …..

[Heather]

Did anyone read my comment and the problems we have had with not having applied for dual citizenship when entering back into SOuth Africa???

[Mara]

Heather, yes I did, and I have been back many times, on both a NZ and AUS passport, yet I have never been asked for my RSA passport, and no, I did not renounce or apply to keep my RSA citizenship.The RSA government clearly spells out that if you do not apply, before you take out citizenship of another country, then you have lost your RSA citizenship, so see no reason why a person should officially have to renounce it.

I am guessing that the reason your children were asked, would be that 8 years ago when you got citizenship they were not yet 21? This is the first time that I have ever heard of this happening to anyone.

I also wonder if it was a little person with a big attitude who decided to give a kid a hard time, just because they can.

[Heather]

Heather, yes I did, and I have been back many times, on both a NZ and AUS passport, yet I have never been asked for my RSA passport, and no, I did not renounce or apply to keep my RSA citizenship.The RSA government clearly spells out that if you do not apply, before you take out citizenship of another country, then you have lost your RSA citizenship, so see no reason why a person should officially have to renounce it.

I am guessing that the reason your children were asked, would be that 8 years ago when you got citizenship they were not yet 21? This is the first time that I have ever heard of this happening to anyone.

I also wonder if it was a little person with a big attitude who decided to give a kid a hard time, just because they can.

Did you officially immigrate??? This may be our reason as we just left to go work in Mauritius and then the opportunity to come to Aussie came about and next thing we were here.

[Mara]

Heather, there you go then, problem solved. Yes, we officially emigrated when we left, ticked all the boxes, and wiped the dust off our feet.

[LeeInOz]

This is the first time I heard of this. Does this means you have to re-apply every 5 years or does it mean you have to acquire the other citizenship within 5 years? If it is the former, it will be a real pain!

I just looked at our certificates issued by the RSA High Commision in Canberra in 2006 and there are no expiry dates on them.

As to another citizenship, South Africa allow it but each time you do apply you need to submit another retention of citizenship application. Not sure about Australia but assume they dont mind. There seem to be no payable fee's or application to keep citizenship either. Just a money making grab. I also heard this morning on 702 that passport applications go up to R 400 at the end of the month so the dept is flooded with over 1000 applications a day