The reasons for leaving SA

[Dax]

I left 12 years ago already, but voted a close as possible to the criteria.

Dax

PS in this contex: We think we will loose everything here in Africa You use the spelling lose and not loose.

[No Worries Mate]

Dax

Thanks. Have corrected it! Now I am really confident for my IELTS test this Saturday!

Andre

[Sean Udal]

S.A.D. C.R.I.M.E.

Service, Accidents, Disease, Corruption, Rape, Inflation, Murder, Education

Given a choice, I would rather stay in South Africa, but over the last 2 years my wife and I have thought a lot about the future of our children, and needed to make sure we are making the right decision.

We have SA family that have moved and they are very happy.

Service: ....... ESKOM………. say no more.

Accidents: ........Just watch the news. Are we still the highest in the world?

Disease: .........TB, Aids. No wonder the Australians are so strict on health.

Crime: ........Are we still the highest in the world?

Rape: ........ Our local newspaper said 1 in 2 women will be raped in there life? Are we still the highest in the world?

Inflation: .........I do not believe that it as low as they say. My till slips from the last 2 years seem to indicate otherwise.

Murder: .........Are we still the highest in the world?

Education: .........Private education might still be OK. Government teachers are leaving the profession by the thousands. SA now has the most unsafe schools in the world.

So the decision was easy, especially for our kid’s future.

- We have accepted that once we move, we will become Australian and adopt the new culture.

- There is a good chance I will live in Australia for longer than I have in South Africa. (I hope :-)

- I do agree, there is no point talking about why we left South Africa, once we are there.

- It might be best to stop watching the SA news. I hardly ever see any good news.

Arnotts Mint Slice looks great ! Yum Yum http://www.arnotts.com.au/varieties/MintSlice.aspx

Edited March 26, 2008 by Sean Udal

[Enrica]

Andre,

You cant knock the ex Saffer say we dont care, from my point of view South Africans are consumed by discussing crime and violence and come across as being immuned to other peoples suffering . Crime has permeated every aspect of our lives, South Africans all come across as so aggressive/impatient and and it for that reason that the most Auzzies dont understand what you are going thru. We had to put up with being called "traitors" for leaving South Africa, because we supposed went on a "chicken run". We all left for the same reasons crime and violence . Certainly I take exception to the fact that we are unsympathetic to the crime. Most of us still have plenty of family left behind in SA, which we worry about every minute of the day.

I dont think you need a poll to justify why people are leaving, its the story of Africa. You dont need confirmation of that. I agree with Desert Daisy, I like the idea that Arnotts Mint Slices are the reason why we left SA. I an so tired of having to justify why we left.

You need to make decisions for you and your family, no amount of analysis/polls is going confirm that you are making the right decision.

[No Worries Mate]

Enrica

I do understand your point of view as previously stated.

However you must wonder why you two want to chat about the mint slices....maybe because you are both in Oz? There has not been a comment like that from someone still in SA. Our mint slices have been stolen....

Maybe we are wrong and maybe we need justification......but that is us. It's great if you don't.....you are very lucky.

Make no mistake that I am looking forward to the great adventure, to explore new places, etc.

Andre

[Enrica]

Andre

I thinking you are missing the point.

Our Mint Slices were also stolen..........we have been in the same predicament as you now find yourself in.

I can guarentee you that at least 80% of the Ex Saffers in Australia have had their "Mint Slices Stolen" . None of us would be here if crime was under control

and our kids had great future ahead of them and everything in SA was hunky dory!!!

[No Worries Mate]

So what is the problem with discussing it? It is the reason you are there is it not? The reason I will be there

Otherwise this forum would not exist....

Excuse me but I think this is getting a bit ridiculous....

Andre

[Andrea]

Any one for a 'mint slice'?

I was going to write a long message giving my 2c worth, but quite frankly I'm tired ......... and bored

[Preacher]

I seem to be one of the few that wants to leave for reasons outside crime. Crime is a major factor, but its more then just crime for me. Our quality of life and standard of living is not as high as it used to be. I laugh when I think how many people, who had never been overseas, told me I could not afford to live there. I have seen friends get by on a barmans wage in the UK, and others battle to make ends meet when husband and wife worked proffessional jobs in South Africa.

For me, its everything. The standard of living and quality of life is crap. I get treated like a second rate citizen because I am white. I have to contend with BEE when I start my own thing. I have to live in a country where savages run the show. I have to see the decay around me on a daily basis. Everything is going for a ball of . If the crime problem had to disapear tommorow, I would still leave.

I count the days!

[wislon]

For me, its everything. The standard of living and quality of life is crap. I get treated like a second rate citizen because I am white. I have to contend with BEE when I start my own thing. I have to live in a country where savages run the show. I have to see the decay around me on a daily basis. Everything is going for a ball of . If the crime problem had to disapear tommorow, I would still leave.

I count the days!

What Preacher said.

[HansaPlease]

A bit of a combination really...

Crime, jobs, opportunities, the benefits of living in a first world country, travel, experiences... the list goes on.

I guess if I really had to narrow down the main things that keep me out of SA - Crime and Jobs. Without these two being problems, I'd be back!

[Colling-vrou]

I think SA'ns also discuss the reasons they are leaving to justify to themselves why they are taking such a drastic move.

Back in the day when I was still a student, I would've gone to another country (provided someone bought me a plane ticket) in a second, no questions asked... I would've probably stayed / worked there, met someone, got married, etc. If someone had to ask me why I left SA, I would've answered - "Cause I had the oppertunity and took it" I actually have friends in UK who did just this and they also don't really have reasons for leaving... (plenty for not returning, but mostly the advantages to current country than negatives).

Now, being a mother of 2 and knowing that whatever choices I make, might influence my two boys' lives forever, I have to remind myself of the constant "negatives", otherwise I'll have to put on rose coloured glasses and eventually I wouldnt want to leave.... rather moan about water getting hotter now, than being boiled I suppose.

I also have to agree with Preacher. I am a stay-at-home mom by choice (a very hard choice as well), because I saw the advantages and effects of this by example (primary school teacher)... but that's a whole other topic not meant for this forum. If I have to stay in S.A. I would no longer be able to be a stay-at-home mom.... and then I would break a promise I made to myself even before I was married and was still studying.

I want my boys to be able to go on bus and train rides, walk and play in parks, go to public swimmimgpools and go down to the beach on a hot day. I can't give them that in S.A., or the U.K (last due to weather) or any where else for that matter.

So Oz is my country of choice, but I also still have to remind myself sometimes why S.A. isn't.... for my kids grandparents' sake

[hellsbells]

We left in the '70s because coloureds had no future regardless of who ruled.

[jaxmvr]

Hi

On the question of the crime:

Our household, friends and family experienced the house break-ins, car stolen and things that got stolen and 2 people that got hi-jacked – lucky – only the cars was taken…

But this, in South African term is seen as minor, “not worth the trouble†to report type cases.

So no I have not experienced the major crime on my own rear end yet – but I did not want to be in that position to say yes.

And after the short time in Aus I see that the minor crimes are to be seen / are seen as major crimes and that is how the order is maintained.

I know what you mean if you say that where is a lot of stress and yes it comes and goes but focus on the positive and work to the goals you have set – for me it made the down times shorter. Not just in Sa but the time just after getting to Aus to. The landing is not a smooth touchdown – don’t matter how much you planned it, there is always the odd hick-up.

Just keeping your eye on your goals and working positively towards you new future will make all the struggle the worth wile. The day your kids come into the house with big smiles and you did not even notice that they went out, you will smile and wonder way you have worried so much.

On the future question:

Having better jobs and more money – not always so if you arrive, more likely to step back a couple of notches. But just being “better†of is worth it.

Then BEE has done it for most people in their work, did it for me and my wife. Not something I want to fight for the rest of my working time. Here you start at the bottom yes but you are not “stepped†on for who you are.

The biggest is that this was a move for my kids – no 2 way.

Last: My worst stress was after our visa was granted and before we got on the plane. It was not the “work†but the “what if†something happens to us now that got to me – we have our ticket out.

Voorspoed aan julle almal

Jaco

[Dutchman]

Andre

Did this really happen?

Did this REALLY REALLY happen?

I am shocked... please expand...

I was at a conference last week about the energy crisis......that is of course another topic I will start later.

We were in the queue to get buffet lunch and a friend of mine made a practical joke with a black gentleman standing in front of us. He just tugged on his plate he was holding to make the guy think it was falling from his hand. This guy jokes with everyone all the time like that. He is very well respected in the industry and everyone knows and likes him too.

So the black guy turns round looks us up and down with this grin on his face and says " We are just waiting for Mandela to die, then it is free for all"

Well I still cannot believe an educated person would say something like that. This begs the question does the entire black poulation feel that way, I mean especially the poor. Can't really blame them for having negative thoughts hey! I would too!

Anyway I am not going to put up with something my forefathers caused...and why should our kids.

Andre

[No Worries Mate]

Hi Dutchman

I am not sure what you would like me to expand on. The fact is That maybe playing a joke on someone is not called for but I can hardly believe such a response to it.

The question for me is how many others think this way? Are we going down the Zim route slowly but surely?

Anyway before I get strung up for being negative and not looking at the positive adventure of moving to Oz.....

Andre

[Guest mrs mupersan]

Now that I'm here, I find that crime in ZA is so far from my mind that I've only skimmed this thread as I'm just really not that interested.

Please don't get me wrong here - I am IN NO WAY suggesting that crime isn't an ENORMOUS issue in South Africa.

But once I got to Aus and started living my life in a free, safe, first world society, I haven't given crime in ZA a second thought. My heart tells me that I am finally home. This is how life is supposed to be. Fresh air, safety, opportunities for those who want to grab them, civilisation.... This is what we came to Australia for.

I am concerned about my family and friends who are still in ZA. However, there is absolutely nothing that I can do to make their lives safer for them. Worrying myself sick from Sydney is not going to help. The only thing I can do is hope that all will be well with them and live my life.

So basically what I'm saying is that we didn't leave South Africa for any particular reason. We came to Australia for the opportunities and quality of life we can have here.

Cheers,

Mands

PS - the only advice I can give here is to stop focusing on the negatives and start focusing on the positives of moving to Australia.

[Fern]

Taken from iafrica.com today 1 April

Black South Africans are still optimistic about the country and its future, according to research conducted by TNS Research Surveys, released on Tuesday.

TNS — which has conducted surveys since 2004 on how people perceive South Africa and its future — said that people in metro areas had reached the lowest point in terms of their optimism in the recent survey.

Director of innovation and development Neil Higgs said while blacks were generally more positive and maintained a steady trend, whites had shown a dramatic drop from 59 percent in 2005 to 31 percent this year.

Higgs said coloureds had been trending downwards since 2005 while the Asian figures were erratic, though showing a slow decline.

"Levels of optimism show remarkable robustness. However, the reading in February 2008 is the lowest in four years," he said.

The survey showed that the Vaal Triangle and South Rand areas had the most optimistic people — while the least were found in Cape Town and Durban.

"Younger people, those aged 18 to 24 years, are more positive than those aged 50 to 59. Amongst blacks, people whose home language is Xhosa are the most positive ," Higgs said.

He said 69 percent of the unemployed in the survey were more optimistic than the other groups.

Higgs said the studies were conducted amongst a sample of 2000 adults of which 1260 were black, 385 whites, 240 coloureds and 115 Asians.

just for interest sake

[No Worries Mate]

Based on the survey above....I am

White, in Cape Town and 42 years old.

3 guesses as to how I feel about the future here....

Andre

[Impatient]

On the 4th of March this year I went from being "Not waiting around for any of the above to happen" to finding my life in the hands of 5 armed robbers while working late. Lets just say I dont want my wife or kids to go through anything like that in their lives.

Cheers

Travis (Melissa's hubby)

[KimH]

Just to add my 2c worth....

Andre - I think you have been given a ridiculously hard time on this thread for stating what most of us are thinking anyway. It was a practical joke in poor taste - lets move on from that and look at the response which was not in poor taste but completely ridiculous

I know that we shouldnt harp on about crime esp once we are on the other side but I also know it is such a big part of the reason that we are all leaving - we cant not talk about it. At least now when we are still here.

For those that think talking about crime is "boring" and get angry when you read these threads - dont read them! Its as simple as that.

For those that have been touched by crime, talking about it can be cathartic and a way to share one of the reasons we are leaving so that be the time we reach Aus we can sit back and enjoy those mint slices leaving all this behind us.

Incidently, I am not leaving because of crime but for a whole bunch of other reasons including the fact it is really easy and affordable to travel from Aus. This doesnt mean that I cant respect other people's points of view or reasons for leaving.

Kim

[Guest natalie3]

Ive noticed that the forum has become a place where one has to be VERY careful what you say and how you say it..

However..at the end of the day it is impossible to expect everyone on this forum to have the same political, religious etc beliefs and I think it will do us all good to just "go with the flow" a bit and not get offended so easily...

If someone wants to ask a question that u are offended by than just ignore it..

If you feel passionate about something...have your say but keep it civil and polite..

Please dont try and pick fights and then immediately apologise when someone puts you in your place..this is just NOT cool.

Lets all debate as educated adults (which i believe all of us are)...

Lastly..if you were offended by this post then obviously u are a guilty party..but it is never too late to "change your ways"..i also get angry and frustrated when people misunderstand me and i have also posted things i regret, but am making a conscious effort to think before i type...(well...at least a little )

And that my friends....is free advice.

[SueB]

Sorry decided not to post.

Edited April 1, 2008 by SueB

[No Worries Mate]

Hi Kim

Thanks for the support. Look I think we all think about this a lot. Once you are in Oz you don't, as it is not as close to you. Yes you have loved ones over in SA still but not exactly the same as your own direct family.

However this does not mean we are not going for positive reasons as well!

Andre

[Gizmo]

GOSH, I am SHOCKED!!!

27 people here have been victims of serious crime!!!

((HUGE HUGS)) to all who ticked this option!