What the hell is going on in South Africa?!

[APingo]

I'm just so fed up with these youngsters who weren't even born in the apartheid era, still using that as an excuse for their bad choices and bad behavior! To them it makes perfect sense to "cry" that they do not get the same oppertunities to go study, and then when they go to varsity, they burn down the buildings...so, where are they going to study tomorrow as there's no building to study in!! They protest against the "poor" cleaning outsource staff's working and living conditions, and then they go and throw raw sewerage at the varsity buildings which the same "poor" cleaning staff now need to clean up...yeah, that makes perfect sense ! And then they go rip the 'colonial' paintings from the walls in the varsity halls which was painted by white racists artist, just to find out afterwards that it was painted by a black man No, let me tell you this, I've gone from wanting to move to oz, to HAVE TO MOVE TO OZ as there's clearly no future for the fairer skinned human race in this African country! Am I bitter? YES I AM! Because I'm being punished, and my kids are being punished for things we weren't even part of!? This country is turning into an international joke!

 

Ok, so now I feel a little bit lighter?  

Edited February 26, 2016 by APingo

[OubaasDik]

On 25/2/2016 at 0:18 AM, LeonH said:

What I find really sad is how so much of the country's discontent is being felt by the born-free generation, and people (black and white) at the moment can't seem to get past blaming each other for their misfortunes. SA is not a place for optimists at the moment.

 

I can only hope things settle down after elections - they usually do. Until then I may just have to stop reading News24

 

 

You're right.

 

And it has got infinitely worse that it used to be.

 

I can remember in the early 80's - I was walking home from wok and the sky had opened - it was p*ssing down. I was soaked through and had reached the point where I didn't really care anymore, and was just enjoying the rain - a black guy ahead of me with an umbrella stopped and gestured to me to hurry and get under his umbrella.

 

I have to admit, I was touched. Such kindness to one of the oppressors.

 

I am infinitely glad that I have my family  - my wife, and my kids out of that hellhole. I am grateful that my dad died last year ..... I miss him, though.

[Riekie]

And now apparently Zuma landed the job of co-chair to the UN health employment commission... WTH?!  Is the whole world blind?!

[SurferMan]

@Riekie

 

Thats like putting Mbeki in charge of AIDS global campaigns, beetroot and garlic nogal! You have to just shake your head. I am keen to see how the local elections get twisted...my bet is that it will be a case of Farenheit 451 Reloaded in a political sense.

[Bob]

With a bloke like Zuma getting a place in the UN, is it any wonder that people are getting highly cynical about politics and government??

 

I am on record here on this website a handful of years ago saying that Greece won't stay in the Eurozone. Over the next few months, Greece will become an even worse financial basket case with the refugee crisis unfolding in Europe with Greece being the main dumping ground.

 

Americans are seeing their land being overrun by foreigners and have a feeling of powerlessness to stop it. They are mesmerised by a man who is telling them what no politician has dared to mention so far.

 

British people I have spoken to widely over the last three years all express dismay at the state of Britain, with its inability to control who enters and who gets welfare. They are voting on whether to leave the European Union in June, or stay.

 

In Australia, we now have boys going into girls toilets at school, and vice versa, in complete disregard to what their parents wish for. Many feel we are entering a moral free fall in society.

 

In South Africa, the white population is getting less and less, the black population increasing daily demographically. South Africa is increasingly becoming more "African" each day, with all the problems associated with lack of government accountability, corruption, nepotism.

 

In a decade's time, only those whites who are too poor or too old or unskilled will be left to become the scapegoat of all the bad things that unfold with the governing of South Africa.

 

There is a feeling among some people in Australia that we are entering a period reminiscent of the 1930s, with the rise of headstrong leaders, nationalism and dictatorial running of government. By the end of that decade, the world exploded.

[SurferMan]

Bob,

 

Keen to get your thoughts on the next GFC...By my reckoning it is not too far off and all the signs are there. If the UK leave the EU, which I think they will, things are going to go south real quick. Can anyone shed light on what caused the migrant crisis in the EU anyways?

[Peterthe1]

1 hour ago, SurferMan said:

Can anyone shed light on what caused the migrant crisis in the EU anyways?

Continuing war in the Middle East therefore the "refugee" crisis. A lot of refugees aren't refugees but are going to EU to milk the system as their own countries don't have a welfare system. There are people that have been displaced by the war, but a lot are there for other reasons. EU leaders being spineless and letting the crisis happen and abandoning the people who blindly voted them in. The "supposed" threat of terrorism is pressing western population into submission.There was less security in the UK at the height of the IRA bombings then there is now with the perceived threat of terrorism. Other western countries have same, over the top, security measures for a perceived threat.

There are a lot of opinions as to why this situation is unravelling but if things don't get sorted out soon there will be a major problem/conflict. Maybe the saying is true that there are to many people in the world and another war or major outbreak of disease is needed to get the numbers down before the world gets overpopulated and destroyed.

[Sunnyskies]

From the Washington Post:

"Since armed conflict between the government and various opposition factions began in Syria in 2011, an estimated 9 million Syrians have streamed out of their homes, according to the State Department. About 6.5 million of these individuals still live somewhere inside of Syria, and at least 2.5 million people have left. Most have either entered another country or been caught attempting to do so and placed in temporary refugee housing -- often little more than a tent city."

 

I've read some accounts of middle class people who have left, and I don't believe that they either needed social welfare in Syria, or are looking to live on social welfare in Germany.  Most of the accounts are of people who stayed and stayed, until the fighting was in their neighbourhood and were left without food, water or safety, and then shifted first internally in Syria and then in despair decided to strike out for something safer.  Their journeys were tough and they themselves questioned the wisdom of what they were doing, but the fear of staying and being killed or having their children killed was too great. 

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/the-economics-of-syrian-refugees

 

I think that saying that someone gives up everything to undertake a perilous journey to Europe knowing that no one really wants you but that you will do so for better social welfare, is like saying South Africans get visas for Australia to live on social benefits once we are entitled to.  I think all South African expats would disagree with that statement, but South African social benefits are also woeful and statements are often made on the forum about how you can get the benefit of Medicare, pension, tax deductions etc etc by moving to Australia. 

 

On that note, admin should probably close down this thread as it is likely to explode.

[SurferMan]

Hmm, interesting. It was my view that the wars were a constant and did not peak, causing the mass migration.

[BrendanH]

In my view it is about multiple sudden power vacuums in the region.

 

The US pulling out of Iraq and in roughly the same persiod the Arab Spring which lead to civil war in Syria. Obama backed Syrian rebels which inflamed a conflict which would have fizzled out otherwise.

 

Out of those major vacuums emerged Daesh which rose in a whirlwind of violence.

 

There are economic refugees who have taken advantage of the situation to swarm into Europe for the benefits but there are also legitimate refugees fleeing the conflicts.

 

It is a cluster**** which proves that in certain places stability under the guy you don't like is preferrable to the alternative.

Edited March 9, 2016 by BrendanH

[Sunnyskies]

 

 

Here is a timeline of events in Syria:

2011 - Arab Spring protests in Syria (much the same as occurred in Egypt etc) but President Assad's government wasn't going to go easy and started crackdowns on dissidents.

Mass protests continue, leading to armed rebellion.

2012 - the conflict becomes sectarian in nature, with the government being Alawite  and linking up with Shia groups against the predominantly Sunni rebels.

Syrian government gets support from Russia, Iran and Iraq.

2012 - ISIL leader turns his sights on Syria, sending commanders across the border as the civil war worsened.

Even though ISIL and rebels are Sunni muslims, ISIL uses the chaos in Syria to its own advantage, taking over territory and attacking rebels and civilians who don't subscribe to its strict interpretation of Islam.   Effectively a reign of terror - read the State Department's account of what is happening to the religious minorities by ISIL  http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/rm/2014/231483.htm

2013 - Iran backs the Syrian army.

2015 - Russia, Iraq, Iran and Syrian government set up a joint operations room

September 2015 - Russian air offensive starts (remember the Russian jet that is shot down by Turkey)

The impact of ISIL in Syria has been to turn what was effectively a battle between the government and the rebels into a three way confrontation, with both the Assad government and the rebels both battling each other and now each having to battle ISIL.  When towns have been liberated by rebels, ISIL have arrived and started killing minorities, so necessitating that the rebels permit the government forces to retake the towns.  

It was the actions of ISIL that prompted the flow of refugees from Syria, as their actions are not reasoned and if you are not with them you will probably die.

 

There is also a whole line of thinking as to what happened with Al-Queda to allow the rising of ISIL and how the withdrawal of US forces effectively gave ISIL the ability to rise.  There is also the whole argument that ISIL is a result of the imprisonment of Al-Quada with members of the Iraq army permitted a joining of forces between the two.  If you then want to go back in time, you can also look all the way back to the Reagan era and the provision of weapons to the Afghan mujahideen, some of whom ultimately formed the Taliban, and subsequently Al-Queda and then ISIL.

 

So in a nutshell this is not something created overnight, nor is it something that can be dealt with by a few ground troops in Iraq.  It is as BrendanH says a giant cluster**** that will take a really long time to resolve (if ever).  There will be displaced people forever, just as there were people displaced from Vietnam and Korea...

 

Edited March 9, 2016 by Sunnyskies

[LeonH]

IMO most of us on this forum are, or are planning to be, displaced people - it's just the degree of choice we have in the matter that differs.

 

I for one am flippen glad that there are countries like Australia that will consider taking us in! That said, I don't think the situation in SA can easily be compared to that in Syria and other genuinely conflict-torn countries. I suspect we would all feel much more charitable towards refugees if we had to walk just a mile in their shoes.

 

Yes, there will be bad eggs among refugees/immigrants. But there will always be a small number of baddies in any sample of humanity, regardless of where they come from

Edited March 9, 2016 by LeonH

[blung]

Here's a really good podcast on the Syria conflict for anyone that's interested..(just skip over the intros til he gets to chatting to Michael Weiss)

 

https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/inside-the-crucible-syria-and-the-islamic-state

[SurferMan]

Back to South Africa, I am not sure the Government can keep the lid on the violence for too much longer. That they have done so for >20 years is amazing. But in truth so have most of the tin pot dictators in Africa and elsewhere. My mind is casting about for a means as to how that society can transition to an accountable Government without bloodshed and I am at a loss as to how this may be achieved.

 

I just look at things I deem to be utterly silly, like torching a library. I get that anger needs a target, but honestly, a library, a school, university etc et al. Why? Whatever did a book do to you in a normal sense? Maybe I am just too simple minded to grasp the complexities and undercurrents. I was in the mix as a kid in the 80's when the ANC and IFP were going toe to toe in far northern KZN. I watched two factions hack each others members with pangas from the school bus, wide eyed with terror.

 

I am a bit of a history buff (wannabe!!!) and have some very old books I have found over the years which describe the birth of SA in detail. Man alive you should read some of the accounts of violence in there. Books are "Natal the Zulu Country and Lost Trails of the Lowveld by T.V. Bulpin" are good samples to get a clinical account of how hard life was in those days.

 

From what I can glean South Africa has always had some sort of war going on. Yes it has been coached in various definitions: "Mfekane, Xenophobia, factionalism" etc et al. What was interesting is that people name there businesses after this event, like Mfecane Tours.

 

I really hope the good folks there vote for a better change and in doing so get a result more conducive to prosperity.

 

[Mel-B]

My dad had a gun pointed in his face yesterday in Pta, he got out of his Landrover on site (does road works / light maintenance for government). Heard a noise, he thought his car was being broken into, so walked around and walked into a cigarette truck being hijacked mid hijack. The "man" put the gun to his head and said "turn around and walk away very quickly". Sounds ridiculous, but my dad was "lucky"; that thug had the power of his life in his hands. That's why I moved, I dread the thought of thugs choosing whether we live or die. I feel ill after the news, been sweating for hours.  Anyway. Just another day in beautiful SA.

[SurferMan]

I am so sorry Mel-B. yet again glad I am no longer there.

[MelG]

:oh no Mel-B - I'm so glad he's alright ╭დ

[tcmiller]

Seriously, South Africa scares the k@k out of me these days. Black student wearing a t-shirt that says "f*** all whites" as if its nothing. A senior ANC member posted to his facebook page that blacks should do to whites what Hitler did to the jews. And he gets suspended on full pay! The anti-white rhetoric is really getting to me. The violent nature of the university protests is scary.

 

A friend of mine recently came home to find his house in progress of being robbed. Needless to say he was shot and is now in hospital in a coma. 

 

I simply cannot wait to get on that damn Qantas plane already. I was actually tempted last week to just quit my job and book an earlier flight but I am still struggling to sell my house.

[SurferMan]

@tcmiller

 

Mate, when do you land brother? I am about to move from Perth to Brisbane. Be cool to catch up matey. SOOOOo glad I dont have to stress anymore over that :censored:. On our last day, we were swimming in our pool and some locals (not residents) were taking pot shots at us in our pool. Thank you Lord we are LONG gone from there.

[JandBwithR]

South Africa is slowly falling back to its older ways. There are too many hungry and desperate people in this country. The future today still looks exactly the same as it did 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. 

[tcmiller]

@SurferMan Fly out 1 August. Cannot wait!

[SurferMan]

Dude I would have just gotten settled in Brissie, look forward to meeting you there! In the mean time, keep that head down and in the trenches, don't let the bad guys get you!

[Peterthe1]

On ‎11‎/‎03‎/‎2016 at 11:31 PM, JandBwithR said:

South Africa is slowly falling back to its older ways. There are too many hungry and desperate people in this country. The future today still looks exactly the same as it did 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. 

I'd say that SA is getting worse. I left 13 years ago and things were bad then. I had a 4 week holiday there 4 years ago and couldn't believe how much things had deteriorated from when I left in 2003. The hate towards whites seems to have gotten a lot worse. Back in 2003, before I left , people used to dread how things would go once Mandela is gone. It seems the predictions weren't to far off the mark. Back then things were slightly better because the country wasn't run by a total idiot.

[Shellfish]

I have the 702 EWN feed on my facebook page and it's rare that a day goes by when a headline doesn't make me think - "you've got to be kidding me..."

[TeeTMI]

A friend sent me a link to the Deputy Finance Ministers statement confirming that following the recent upheavals with the Finance Ministers position changes.  Stating that it was the Gupta's that had approached him and offered him the position of Finance Minister at that time.   (the comment is at about 2:50 in)

 

http://mg.co.za/multimedia/2016-03-16-mcebisi-jonas-confirms-gupta-job-offer