Second thoughts

[LadySnoo]

My husband and I made the decision to immigrate a few months ago but have not yet made the first steps. We are starting to have second thoughts about the sacrifice that this is going. We are well off now in our positions as my husband is in a family business we have an aspect of flexibility that we probably won't have if we leave. I would also have the option of giving up my job when we have kids if we stay in SA and I once again don't think this will be possible in Aus.

When we decided it just seemed so clear now I'm feeling like we might regret it. Unlike other people that leave we don't hate South Africa we love it here we just uncertain about the future and I feel like this lack of hate or genuine fear ( touch wood we have never been involved in violent crime directly) will draw us back to SA.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for in this post maybe I'm looking to see if this is a normal part of the process or are we really not yet in the right place to leave.

[Mikej]

Hello LadySnoo

I am coming into this topic a bit late but like everyone have an opinion.

Many citizens leave the countries of their birth to live and work elsewhere, some return some don't and for most of these people this is not really a big deal. Their move is not judged as a measure of loyalty to their country, they are simply citizens who have decided to move elsewhere for their own personal reasons and they may or may not return.

It is only emigrating South Africans who somehow get labelled as unpatriotic. Emigration does not make you unpatriotic and your patriotism should not be a factor in your decision making..

Good luck and and all the best.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Mikej

[LadySnoo]

LadySnoo, just wanted to wish you all of the best with the decisions you have to make, and to say, that if you ever find yourself in Melbourne, you are welcome to visit.

Thank you Mara ! If I find myself in Melbourne ill contact you through the forum.

[LadySnoo]

Hello LadySnoo I am coming into this topic a bit late but like everyone have an opinion. Many citizens leave the countries of their birth to live and work elsewhere, some return some don't and for most of these people this is not really a big deal. Their move is not judged as a measure of loyalty to their country, they are simply citizens who have decided to move elsewhere for their own personal reasons and they may or may not return. It is only emigrating South Africans who somehow get labelled as unpatriotic. Emigration does not make you unpatriotic and your patriotism should not be a factor in your decision making.. Good luck and and all the best.

This is especially true if you are going to Australia above all other countries .

[fezzies]

Tough descision.

My advice is if your heart is not in the move to a new country, and it does not matter which country, then you would be stupid to move and will not find happiness anywhere. It would only create heartache, cost money and a few relationships. It sounds like your life in SA is Idyllic and certainly one that most South Africans would love to live and many would be envious of. This is only important if being envied is important to you. (Not judging, everyone has the right to their own feeling after all.)

It might be good to give a few thoughts to the following before you decide.

1. The family business. Has it grown and provided for the family well throughout the years? Will it realistically continue to do so when your children need work?

2. You dont have to hate a country to want to leave it. Most people I know that have moved here do not hate South Africa, They are however abundantly aware of certain problems that South African has specifically in terms of the future.

3. The Children- What will you feel when in 20 years time one of your children says," Love you but we have to make a move for the sake of our kids." ?

ALSO

Are you assured your future children will be able to attend University, without discrimination, to study what they want.

4. Why did you even think about emmigrating from South Africa to begin with?

Immigration is not easy, the road is long and bumpy. Australia is not the magic problem solver, it also has challenges. Australia seems to be operating perfectly well without many people who are thinking of coming, but it does currently offer people some small amount of security and hope in terms of a future for their children, fairness in giving everbody a chance and the security that more often that not you can physically see where you tax money is going.

Good luck with a very though descision, I certainly am glad I dont have to make it.

We going thru the emotionla roller coaster every day excited then not , good to see others feel same still have alooong way to go ! also have a family business which when we live will end up being shut down

[BriD]

Firstly...just wanted to send huge big hugs your way.

This is SUCH a difficult decision. And if I can offer some other thoughts on the child thing...it is definitely a driving factor for people to Immigrate...the future of our children. But along with that comes huge guilt and confusion when you face that in giving them a more secure future abroad you sacrifice the extended family experience they could have had. They may still see grandparents and uncles auntsAlso cousins every now and then...but it will never match a life spent in South Africa relatively close to all these people.

For me that is one of the biggest things I have to come to terms with. The loss of the extended family.

And then also for yourself...you lose your extended family in a way...you have to make a decision...the children versus my mom, my dad my siblings etc....and everytime the children will win. That is what happens when you become a parent...you would move the heavens and earth for them.

Immigration is heartbreaking....you need to weigh up the pros and cons. There will be many of each for both sides. It is a personal choice in the end.

I often feel we would have been better off leaving before we had kids so that it would just have been us going...not us taking ourselves and the grandchildren away.

[LadySnoo]

I completely understand where you are coming from. I couldn't imagine my in- laws and my parents ( and in turn our) heartbreak if we had to do that. The strength that you will gain from your journey will leave your children in awe of your courage.

Once we are able to make the decision and cast it in stone we will have a much easier ride than those with children. I think about the process for those with kids and even thinking about how hard that plane ride will be for those people makes my head sore never mind all the other things like leaving grandparents and loosing useful support structures.

I don't want anyone to think that I am implying its easier for those with kids , of course it isn't, but i think that you can see your reason each day and that must bring some comfort to you that you are doing the right thing. I hope that I have not made parents feel like their jouries are not as difficult as ours.

.

I guess, I've learnt from reading posts on this forum, that our journeies are so different but at the same time so similar.

This post was confusing when I re- read it but I'm not sure how to clarify it. Lol

[fezzies]

I completely understand where you are coming from. I couldn't imagine my in- laws and my parents ( and in turn our) heartbreak if we had to do that. The strength that you will gain from your journey will leave your children in awe of your courage.

Once we are able to make the decision and cast it in stone we will have a much easier ride than those with children. I think about the process for those with kids and even thinking about how hard that plane ride will be for those people makes my head sore never mind all the other things like leaving grandparents and loosing useful support structures.

I don't want anyone to think that I am implying its easier for those with kids , of course it isn't, but i think that you can see your reason each day and that must bring some comfort to you that you are doing the right thing. I hope that I have not made parents feel like their jouries are not as difficult as ours.

.

I guess, I've learnt from reading posts on this forum, that our journeies are so different but at the same time so similar.

This post was confusing when I re- read it but I'm not sure how to clarify it. Lol

Hi

It's comforting to know it stresses others out too, some parts you wrote about leaving could have been written word for word by us , comfy home nice ,cars. its so much easier (for now ) staying. Daily we debate are we mad are we mad not to, but u know what we gonna give up the family business , and give the new life a go , we s**t scared but hey i think we can build up a good life in Auz too minus the zumas and the next idiots in line

[BriD]

I completely understand where you are coming from. I couldn't imagine my in- laws and my parents ( and in turn our) heartbreak if we had to do that. The strength that you will gain from your journey will leave your children in awe of your courage.

Once we are able to make the decision and cast it in stone we will have a much easier ride than those with children. I think about the process for those with kids and even thinking about how hard that plane ride will be for those people makes my head sore never mind all the other things like leaving grandparents and loosing useful support structures.

I don't want anyone to think that I am implying its easier for those with kids , of course it isn't, but i think that you can see your reason each day and that must bring some comfort to you that you are doing the right thing. I hope that I have not made parents feel like their jouries are not as difficult as ours.

.

I guess, I've learnt from reading posts on this forum, that our journeies are so different but at the same time so similar.

This post was confusing when I re- read it but I'm not sure how to clarify it. Lol

I know exactly what you mean...and I did not think at all that you were trying to say immigration is easier for people with kids. Just was giving my perspective on the things we struggle with as people with kids.

Good luck in your decision, I know it is so hard. Specially when you have a good comfortable life here.

[elleneo]

So what happened at the seminar??

[LadySnoo]

So what happened at the seminar??

Well, nothing particularly special to be honest. They showed us a DVD on Aus and spoke about general stats on population etc. then went on to very briefly explain the immigration process. It was not so much the seminar that was the decider but rather an opportunity to make the decision. I learnt very little from the seminar but became a lot more positive about it rather than looking at it as we ' have ' to go and we being forced out. So in that way it was worth it. They also spoke about their services. We will not be using them as the forum recommends Stephen Dickson so we will be using him.

Oh yes. One stat that shocked me was the life expectancy in SA is 40 odd and in Aus is 80 odd. That did make an impact on me.

[Bams]

Hi LadySnoo

I agree, they only person that can make this decision is you!!

It is a roller coaster with very high ups and very high downs, but I believe anything worthwhile is worth fighting for.

Good luck and I will be keeping you in our prayers.

[Kuipers]

Hi I just been reading through this and would love to add my experiences.

I left home at 19 and went to the USA for 2 years, there I worked menial jobs, being a first world country I earned a livable salary. I returned home because I was young and missed my family.

On my return to SA I struggled to make ends meet because I had no formal education and unskilled work payed nothing. I saved up madly and went to Australia, again doing unskilled work I earned a livable salary and enjoyed myself.

Again after 2 years I returned to South Africa with the cash I had saved and moved to Cape Town there I opened up a small business, I spent 3 happy years in Cape Town and met my wife to be.

By now things where getting bad in South Africa myself and Robin had both been hijacked and this prompted us to sell up and take our chances in the UK, here Robin studied and I worked, we where working our way to applying for citizenship but after 7 years of Robin studying and only working part time and me having to support the both of us on a unskilled wage we finally decided the UK was not for us.

We returned to South Africa, Robin by now had a Law and accounting degree she used these skills and opened a very successful business.

I joined my Father's business and within 3 years it is now a major player in our industry and has employed all my family members, we have opened branches nationally so I luckily got to choose where I live. We chose the Cape and feel it is one of the most beautiful places in the world.

Robin and myself are truly blessed and have the funds to enjoy what South Africa has to offer. We fell in love with South Africa, unfortunately we feel South Africa has not fallen in love with us. What I am trying to say is no matter how much we love this country how much charity or good you try and do, we feel that the current South African leadership does not want us here. We pay our taxes we have created a thriving national company we have created jobs we have complied with BEE we support our local charities.

On my return I can honestly say I felt more welcome by the general population of the USA, Australia and the UK than I do by the general South African population.

I would trade all the wealth in the world to be part of a Nation that appreciates all of its citizens.

[RosFam]

Hi , I have also read your posts and thoughts about the process and what it means to leave. I have spoken to so many people , both here (sydney) and in South Africa about the process and what their experiences were. Some had successfully migrated and not looked back , some where here and struggling with work and the move, others had been here for a period and returned home for various reasons, but the main one was financial. I have been in Sydney now for almost 7 months and there is not a day that goes by when I dont want to get on a plane and go home. I was the gung ho type before I left, that we were making the best decision for our kids and their future, but upon arriving I realised that we had forgotten about US. Leaving family behind with no grandkids and little else in SA is something that I still have not come to terms with. If you read the posts about you will see that when people have good family bonds, such as when they are home with family , their focus changes to the country and other elements. The moment you are here , that focus changes to the void left by family. Its not an easy choice to make and I am not certain I have made the right one, for various reasons I choose not to get into on a public forum.

If I can say one thing, try to imagine how you will be during the process, if you will be strong enough to handle the move and still have a smile on your face. The time spend doing housework and taking care of kids cannot be under estimated. Good luck with your decision but try to be honest with yourself, migration is not for everyone and most people here have struggled to be where they are.

[DanieR]

RosFam I agree with you. We were in Australia from 2007 till 2011, and have now been back in Cape Town for a year.

There are pros and cons on both sides, and although its true that many things are uncertain here in Africa, the grass is also not as green as it used to be in other places (economy, schooling, culture, values, religion).

We love Australia for many reasons but be careful not to expect to much. As RosFam said just be honest with yourself whether you are prepared to face all the challenges.

[Springjock]

The safety of my immediate family is my top priority. I could never live with myself if moved back to SA because I missed my parents and then my wife was raped or my son murdered for his bicycle.

[LadySnoo]

The safety of my immediate family is my top priority. I could never live with myself if moved back to SA because I missed my parents and then my wife was raped or my son murdered for his bicycle.

This is the exact reason why we are making the move. I'm in the processor skills assessment and we not looking back.

[AndreR]

@RosFam makes an excellent point. Everyone has a certain baseline from where they are coming from. I cant say that i'm fortunate for not having a close family, but it certainly has made the decision to emigrate far easier. My kids only have one grand parent left who they see once a year, and the rest of the family are scattered across the globe.

I'm trully envious of people who have close families that stand by each other and can drop in on each others lives without making appointments. I can certainly see what a huge sacrifice it must be to leave that behind.

[Riekie]

There's only 3 things you have to consider in all of this;

What would I have to sacrifice?

What would I gain?

Would I be able to live with my decision?

Wether you stay or go....

It's tough, but take it down to the bone and you'll find the answer.

[RosFam]

It obvious that everyone has their own opinions, but what is clear is that most feel pressure in making this decision. I knew how life would be here , what it would entail living day to day , and living far from people who have played an important part in my life for so long, I took a fair guess but in my experience things have been nothing near what I anticipated.

Often we have to make the decision with limited information, lots of assumption and even more FAITH. Just know that nothing in life is irreversible (bar the obvious two) and with the fear of a "wrong" decision being made, you will be more free to make a better decision. None of this is easy and unfortunately we grow if we like it or not

[Sunnyskies]

Rosfam - I don't know your circumstances but I do know that you are in the phase of the move when you most question your decision. I'm not saying don't go back, as only you can decide what is best for you. Unfortunately you are likely to remain in a state of flux for another year before you really start to settle. If you can before making a decision give yourself a timeframe of 2 years and give it a fair go, you may find that by the time you sit back and consider what to do that you are feeling more settled and happier with your decision

[Lyn]

Rosfam - I have to agree with Sunnyskies and say that at 7 months in - its definitely the time when you start questioning the move. You have arrived, run around sorting your life out, then a few months in - like you said - that void hits. For me it was a deep empty feeling in my gut.

I can remember thinking : What the hell have I done ? Is my heart ever going to be at peace ?

Bob on the forum - gave me some sound advice - do a 3 year aussie apprenticeship - only then decide. I can honestly tell you that if my husband and I had not promised each other we would do this - I would have been on the next plane back to RSA.

For me, there are not many things I miss - just one actually - my mother. I never realised how deeply I loved her - until I moved away.

Four and half years on - I still miss my mother every single day - and the guilt of taking her babies away is still there - the only difference is I have learnt to cope with it. Cry when I must and move on. Its no easy feat. Apart from family and the worry of retirement - life is pretty good.

Please don't feel you are the only one that thinks of returning to RSA - there are many like you - all with different reasons - you do what you know is best for you. I know that taking my children - 18 and 19 back there is out of the question. My children's safety comes before my happiness.

Sending you big

[AndreaL]

I have to agree with the above two posts. There would probably have been many times I would have gone back during the first year, but stubborn pride and lack of funds stopped me.......thank goodness. Seven years down the line I am happier than I ever was in RSA or the UK. Yes, you miss family, but you find ways around this.

In the first few months you are so busy doing that you don't seem to have time for doing, when things settle down and you can stand back and look at your life, you might notice some of the gaps, lack of family support, small circle of friends (if you are lucky) and you even start to forget what drove you to leave in the first place and think only of the good times back in RSA.

However, everyone is different. I do think you need to give it two years. Make a date on your calendar and if on that date there aren't more reasons to stay than to go, you maybe need to make that decision.

This is not a prison sentence, it's a journey, an adventure, and if after a certain time it's not working for you....change it. Just be sure that the whole family is on the same page, it's really tough when one partner wants to stay and the other wants to go.

Perhaps for many people an easier way to do this is to think of your time here as a secondment, i.e. for a contract period. The negative is that you might not truly commit to making it work here. Again, we are all different, so just do what suits your immediate family.

[JaxInBriz]

Thanks everyone for these posts. My partner (let's call him Grumpy as he doesn't want any online presence) has been in Aus since October 2012, initially in Sydney but transferred to Brisbane mid February. He is on a 457 visa and I qualified as defacto spouse. I arrived 1 March to join him on our Ausie Adventure. His employers promised to start the PR process as soon as i arrived but to date nothing has been done, the gave us a budget of AUD15k for our move and furnished rental for 3 months. I have been struggling to find a job, the usual issues apply, I'm not giving up yet :-) trouble is he hates his job and wants to go back to SA. Now reading the posts the posts 6/7 month itch makes perfect sense to me. It's difficult because i've been struggling being on my own all day, I've not met any people in Australia other than people who interviewed me. It's difficult to keep him motivated but knowing but the timing issue gives me hope :-) now i need to find out how to apply for the .PR independently which will be a challenge as i have no idea what skill they used to get us here. A lesson in patience is on the cards for me lol.

[OubaasDik]

Hi Jax

The wife hated it when she came out here, because she didn't know anyone, so she volunteered at the school tuckshop one day a week. It meant she actually met people who weren't me (a pleasant change - she said), she got Aussie WORK EXPERIENCE and she was part of the Aussie volunteering thing.

The last 2 look good on a CV, BTW.

It's just a thought for what you could do - no need to sit and mope at home.

For volunteering - talk to the SALVOS or Vinnies - maybe you can help out in one of their shops ....

[Toitjie]

I like the idea of volunteering. I have decided that when we land, while Im still trying to find a job, I would like to volunteer at the RSPCA. I have a huge comfort zone, and an introvert, so this is going to be a challenge...putting myself out there

for all those that are already in Oz and struggling - I am thinking of you..I can just imagine how difficult it must be. I hope it works out for everyone that feels like this