Human Ashes

[Carl Steyn]

We will be taking our parent's ashes with us when we leave in December. i asked Avbob and they are not sure how to do it. The Australian Customs said they should be placed in a sealed container and brought in as hand luggage.

Did any one on here take ashes with them and how should we do it?

Thank you

Carl

I got my answer - Thank you. I gladly share the information here for other families that also deal with this very sore issue:

Here is the procedure when taking human ashes with you to Australia. (Thank you to the Australian Customs)

1. The original container the ashes was delivered in to you should be left in tact. This refer to both plastic packaging inside as well as the wooden box.

2. Seal this original container in an air tight container.

3. Attach the Death certificate (original or verified copy thereof) of the deceased person to the outside of air tight box.

4. Attach the cremation certificate (only original or verified new version from the company that did the cremation if you lost the original) to the outside of the air tight box as well.

5. Take package as part of your hand luggage.

6. On arrival, declare your package to customs, whom will then help you fill in the correct forms on the spot.

7. Be prepared to leave the ashes behind for further inspection if decided on by Australian authorities. The ashes will be returned to you soonest possible.

8. No tampering or disrespect when dealing with human remains will be allowed or tolerated and will be referred to the Federal Police for investigation if evidence of such acts gets reported.

9. The wooden box will be checked like any other wooden object brought into Australia and may be send for fumigation or destruction. The costs occurred with this will be for your own pocket.

10. The ashes may be subject to further investigation if an illegal substance shows up in any test results taken from the package and its contents. Contaminated ashes will be handed over to federal Police for further investigation.

Questions should be referred directly to Australian customs on their website.

[Orion25]

Thanks for asking this Carl, as we still have my mother in law in a box on the shelf too.

Not sure if we should leave her here or take her with?

T

[Cramer]

Please don't get me wrong, my intention is not to offend, but why would you want to take someones ashes. I find that a little creepy! No offense just trying to understand.

[EricaC]

Nothing creepy about it at all. I know of friends who did this on route to the UK, many years ago. As far as I remember, it was also said to place in a sealed container and put in hand luggage.

Reason for this was, he had family in London already, and the family planned a lovely scattering of the ashes Ceremony for the deceased. That way, they could all be together for it.

All the best T and Carl

E

[AndreaL]

Hi Cramer

In our case, my Grandfather died whilst visiting us on holiday in RSA. Some of the family in the UK wanted some of the ashes to have their own goodbye ceremony................. it helped them have something tangible to say goodbye to, as his passing was sudden and shocking.

[Riekie]

Not sure if we should leave her here or take her with?

Would she have loved to "stay" in South Africa? Not knowing when she passed away - maybe in a time when South Africa was still the country where she would have wanted to be? How about scattering her ashes at some place she loved to be?

If she was contemplating leaving, then help her leave and even if you scatter her ashes here at some beautiful place and not hang onto it if you did not want to.

It is quite an interessting topic and you'd never think of that until someone asks the question. I come from a family who believed in burial only, (we stay where we are buried, even if people move on in life) so we did not have to face those kinds of decisions.

Whatever you do, I'm sure if you do it with love in your heart, you will still honour your deceased loved ones.

[Orion25]

HI Riekie,

Thanks for this.

You see it is quite a weird thing this whole ashes story. My MIL wanted to be scattered over the ocean, or placed in a granite casing on her husbands grave, however my OH and my BIL have never been able to bring hemselves to do either (it's a LOOONNNG story) so over the weekend when we were packing some stuff I remembered my MIL was on the shelf and asked OH what he wanted to do.

This move of ours has now forced him and his brother to make a decision (still not sure what yet) but I really do not think she will be coming with, personally I do not think it is right, to a degree a little "creepy" just a Cramer said, but I will do what my OH wishes.

It is rather a weird topic though

T

[Cramer]

Hi Cramer

In our case, my Grandfather died whilst visiting us on holiday in RSA. Some of the family in the UK wanted some of the ashes to have their own goodbye ceremony................. it helped them have something tangible to say goodbye to, as his passing was sudden and shocking.

Ok that part I understand, makes sense. Also makes sense when you have plans to scatter the ashes and have not yet. My mum's ashes are in the wall at the Garden or Remembrance in PMB and we scattered the ashes of our son whom we lost at a favourite spot in the PMB Botanical Gardens.

I do find it creepy when people keep ashes on there mantles forever, no disrespect meant. I think scattering is a way of moving on and letting go.

[AndreaL]

I have to agree. My MIL has her mothers ashes in her bedside table...... and I know of people who have refused to move away from the town where a loved one is buried..... letting go and saying goodbye is an important part of the grieving process

[Carl Steyn]

All I asked was for help in HOW to do it. Now you lot set off on your personal judgements and stories of your own selfish . I could not care a bit where and what you did with your loved ones as it is not my business.

If you have no answer, do not turn my posting into a chit chat over your feelings or personal believes. Have some respect for a grieving family please!

[AndreaL]

Whoaw, slow down there Carl.......

There is no need to get agro.... Cramer asked a question and I answered, with my personal experience.

Last time I checked, we were allowed to have personal opinions on this forum. No one in any way has been offensive.

I am sorry for your loss. If you want legal opinion it would be best to contact quarantine directly, all you will get on here are our personal experiences of what we did when we lost our loved ones..... if you feel that is selfish *#** then shame on you for having no empathy over others losses.

Perhaps you might get the kind of responses you require in future if you ask a question and stipulate that you would only like how to responses.

Edited to add: Actually I find your response very aggresive and rude

[HansaPlease]

Good grief Carl. I think you have serious anger issues and no people skills. What exactly were you expecting if not replies involving personal experiences and opinions?

If you wanted serious, robotic answers only, perhaps you should include a bold disclaimer at the start of your posts stating that 'humans need not reply...'

[Carl Steyn]

Cramer wrote: Please don't get me wrong, my intention is not to offend, but why would you want to take someones ashes. I find that a little creepy! No offense just trying to understand. - Cramer

Here is my answer then: Would you tell me to my face that I am creepy when I ask you my question in person? I have no anger issues, I simply can not understand why people think they have the right to say such hurt full things without even thinking for a moment what their words do to me and my family. Being anonymous does not give you freedom to write without thinking.

My parents would do anything in their power to keep our family together. We are the last of o family of 8 to leave this country. Leaving my parents behind was never an option as they dreamed of living with the rest of the family in Australia.

Now to call my request creepy or all the other nonsense on here is simply a sad reflection on you. Please think next time before you simply type a response and wait for the conversation to roll.

AndreaL - I have to agree. My MIL has her mothers ashes in her bedside table...... and I know of people who have refused to move away from the town where a loved one is buried..... letting go and saying goodbye is an important part of the grieving process.

My answer to you AndreaL: Have you ever told your mother in law that you do not agree with her holding on the her mother's ashes? Yet you think it is OK to do it on here. How do you think she would feel if she knew you did this to her and the way she choose to remember Her mother.

I am terribly sorry for ever asking this question. I believed this forum to be a place where you can get help, not being called creepy, not being able to move on etc etc by people that does not even know a bit about the circumstances.

[Carl Steyn]

Nothing creepy about it at all. I know of friends who did this on route to the UK, many years ago. As far as I remember, it was also said to place in a sealed container and put in hand luggage.

Reason for this was, he had family in London already, and the family planned a lovely scattering of the ashes Ceremony for the deceased. That way, they could all be together for it.

All the best T and Carl

E

Thank you Erica.

I will phone Australia customs and ask them what container will work best.

[AndreaL]

Carl

It seems to me that it is all right for you to state your opinions or thoughts, but you are not allowing any one else the same courtesy. And yes I still do feel that your response was quite rude and aggressive. There really is no need for that, even if you feel that we have stepped over certain bounds.

Cramer asked the question as he was just trying to understand the why.... perhaps he has never been faced with such an issue. Cramer isn't calling you creepy.

Please don't put words into my mouth. I have to agree with Cramer that it makes sense to transport a loved ones ashes in order to ease other family members grief and allow them to say goodbye in their own way.

The statement about my MIL is a fact, not an indictment of what she chooses to do with her own mothers ashes. Any opinion I may or may not have is irrelevant. I have a wonderfully close relationship with my MIL and we have talked about many issues that may arise as a result of us living in different continents... including death.

My Aunt is the person who would not move from the town where her child was buried............. she had a breakdown and died at 39.

As a mother who lost an infant son soon after birth, I have experienced ( in my opinion and relating to my circumstances) being unable to move on with my life for many years until I decided rather to focus on living rather than grieving. I was unable to bury my child and this caused me enormous issues.

Please don't assume to know my circumstances or make judgements about me, I have made none about you other than I find you rude.

Now you might understand a little more of why I think the way I do.

I am truly sorry that you find people's responses hurtful. I know I, and I'm sure no one else would wish to cause you pain.

I hope that you find an accurate answer to your question.

p.s. Carl, you will find that a lot of the replies to your questions and information you receive on this forum are just opinions or experiences. Just dismiss what doesn't apply to you and always double check that the information is correct with another source.

[Carl Steyn]

Here is the procedure when taking human ashes with you to Australia. (Thank you to the Australian Customs)

1. The original container the ashes was delivered in to you should be left in tact. This refer to both plastic packaging inside as well as the wooden box.

2. Seal this original container in an air tight container.

3. Attach the Death certificate (original or verified copy thereof) of the deceased person to the outside of air tight box.

4. Attach the cremation certificate (only original or verified new version from the company that did the cremation if you lost the original) to the outside of the air tight box as well.

5. Take package as part of your hand luggage.

6. On arrival, declare your package to customs, whom will then help you fill in the correct forms on the spot.

7. Be prepared to leave the ashes behind for further inspection if decided on by Australian authorities. The ashes will be returned to you soonest possible.

8. No tampering or disrespect when dealing with human remains will be allowed or tolerated and will be referred to the Federal Police for investigation if evidence of such acts gets reported.

9. The wooden box will be checked like any other wooden object brought into Australia and may be send for fumigation or destruction. The costs occurred with this will be for your own pocket.

10. The ashes may be subject to further investigation if an illegal substance shows up in any test results taken from the package and its contents. Contaminated ashes will be handed over to federal Police for further investigation.

Questions should be referred directly to Uustralian customs.

[Cramer]

Cramer wrote: Please don't get me wrong, my intention is not to offend, but why would you want to take someones ashes. I find that a little creepy! No offense just trying to understand. - Cramer

Here is my answer then: Would you tell me to my face that I am creepy when I ask you my question in person? I have no anger issues, I simply can not understand why people think they have the right to say such hurt full things without even thinking for a moment what their words do to me and my family. Being anonymous does not give you freedom to write without thinking.

.......

TAKE A DARN CHILL PILL CARL!!!

I never said you were creepy, I said I find it a little creepy . Its called personal feelings! Its like some people can cut the head off a live chicken and some cannot. It is just a view point. I said I found it creepy and would like to understand so that I could be a bit more tolerant about such matters.

I cannot believe you feel hurt by what I asked!

I am not anonymous either Cramer is my name and I live in Canberra

[Mara]

Carl, I certainly agree with the others here, everyone shares their experiences, that is how we learn. Some very strange questions have been asked on this forum, and even stranger answers offered, we try not to take offence.

I was also surprised at your question, must be honest had never thought of it, as our family members have also been buried and not cremated. Each of us is different, now that you have explained the circumstances, it makes more sense.

Perhaps you should try not to take offence so easily, I know, I have been the recipient of your ire before.

[Riekie]

Carl, I see you are a fairly new member with only a few posts. Maybe you are not sure of how this forum operates. Unfortunately, if facts only, is what you want, you'd be better off to google the relevant government departments and print off their PDF fact sheets. This forum is very unique, in that people share from their experiences, which includes not only sharing their take on things, but also their emotional journeys. This is mostly the reason why this forum is such a huge success and hasn't gone down the gutter like so many other forums out there.

All our members are entitled to give their opinion on something and reading through the responses to this threat, I do not see anyone being vindictive of self serving. We all have our heartbreak and sadness and we find strength in each other's stories. I understand this may be a sensitive topic for you, but also appreciate that others would want to share too.

When we join a forum as a new member, it is important that we build credibility in our posts if we want people to take us serious or want to reach out to us. In your thread, you state that you are the first of your family to leave South Africa and that your family are like vultures - in the next thread, you say that you are the last of your family of 8 to leave South Africa and indicate that you are a very close family.

Maybe it would be a good idea for you to browse the various topics on the forum to get a feel for the culture. You'll soon find that we are not just random faceless people, but many longlasting friendships, often resulting in meeting up and continuing the friendship in "real life" have been formed over the years and we are quite a close community.

We would love to help and reach out to all our members but the courtesy should be returned. Our favourite slogan is "paying it forward" as it summarize everything this forum is about.

Take care.

[HansaPlease]

Riekie, you said what I was trying to say, but far more diplomatically.

[Cramer]

My apologies to Carl that he took my posting as being hurtful to himself and his family

[Carl Steyn]

Now Riekie you get into my personality and try and make me a liar? We have many cousins and aunts that stay behind. All my bothers and sister in laws left already. The family I am talking about are cousins and in laws.

May I ask why you decided to do that?What did I do to you that give you the right to judge me and my posts? Are you the God on here that can say and do as you please?

All I asked was a question about how to get my dead parents to Australia.

You lot made a circus out of something that is very difficult for me to deal with.

I cannot stand people that throw their children in parks where they get sucked up by lawn mowers and end up as cow feed, but I did not tell the people that did that so, because I know that it will cause immense hurt to them. Yet, I am being called out for having no people skills?

Do to others as you would like people to treat you.

Mara, you corrected me when I told someone that agents are not the only option - you can do everything yourself. Now you have the right to come and drop your unwanted comment here as well. Do you have advice on how to get ashes to Australia - my question in the beginning? If not, go and stick your long nose somewhere else please.

You lot can gang up on me as and insult me as much as you want, you still stay insensitive people that think it is OK to chit chat over what most normal people have a sacred respect for.

[HansaPlease]

Do to others as you would like people to treat you.

After the way you talk to people on this forum - did you actually write this sentence above?

I get it now. You're a comedian?

[Carl Steyn]

I wrote the following to an Administrator on here:

Kindly remove me from this Forum. I am shocked and very disappointed at the way people treated a very sore and sensitive question I asked and I do not want to be part of such disrespectful group of people.

Regards

Carel Steyn

You carry on making fun of other people's sorrows and get your kicks out of it.

[HansaPlease]

You carry on making fun of other people's sorrows and get your kicks out of it.

I'm not making fun of your sorrows. I'm making fun of your unreasonable responses. I think you're being far too sensitive and defensive, yet at the same time, happy to hurl around the insults.

When/if you move to Australia, I think you should know - it is part of Australian culture to "poke fun at" people. This is usually a good sign because it usually means that they like you enough to share a joke with you (and not that they disrespect you). Don't take things too personally if this happens, because it will happen so often it will drive you crazy.