Goldie Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Well today was the second time in a year that my younger daughter, who is a gentle natured and loving child (I swear I'm not being biased), has been punched in the face at school. She's 9! The first time was at another school in another town, so I can't even say it's the particular school. She spent 2 hours in sick bay with an ice pack and no one saw fit to phone me and notify me that there had been an incident. My older daughter was with her when she went to sick bay and overheard the secretary saying that this was the 5th child that had been hurt today. Later in the day, the school went into "lock down"......I had to have it explained to me what that was all about, cause I'd never heard anything of the sort. Apparently a particularly bad behaved child in the school went beserk and they had to lock all the kids in the classrooms until they had him under control. Huh??? I'm feeling a bit dispondent at the moment with things. I don't want to have to tell my daughters to learn to retaliate when things like this happen, as this is just stooping to the same level and I would like them to be bigger than that. But gee whiz........ these are 9 year old kids. The child was "spoken" to !!!!! Damn good hiding is what he really needs. At the end of last year, the same daughter's teacher suddenly went on leave and only returned this year. The story is that one of the unruly kids climbed into him. Punching and kicking him in the groin. The teacher grabbed the child's arm to restrain him and the teacher got suspended because they aren't allowed to touch the kids.Do I have to put my kids into private schools to avoid this?? We have 3 children and we really can't afford that route, but really starting to feel a bit let down by the lack of discipline in the public schools.My kids are far from angels, but have been brought up to know that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable. Can't understand how these kids get away with it. Have overheard some of them effing and blinding at their parents, who don't even batter an eyelid. 2 girls who my daughters had made friends with, returned from holidays with pierced lips......aged 10 and 12 Needless to say, I've told them that they need to find new friends. I'm far from a prude.........believe me...........but some of these kids are out of control!!Sorry for the gripes, but I just had to let off some steam. Anyone else had any similar incidents and if so how did you deal with them??Candice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarinaPer Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Hi CandiceThat is shocking to hear. I really feel sorry for you since you don't want to just take the kids out of the school. And making a big who ha about it takes a lot of energy. In this case I think it is worth while letting the school know that you are not happy with what has happened. I think you seriously need to re-evaluate the school. From personal experience - the management style has a lot to do with a school. I can't (dont) want to believe that this is present in all Oz schools. Thinking of you and praying that you get a solution soon. Karina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omzig Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Candice,I grew up in Germany where the behaviour that you are describing is considered normal. School uniforms were not used. There were gangs and drugs in school. And so what? It's just an early introduction to the real world.The fact that a 10 year old has had his lips pierced doesn't mean that he will turn into a useless and antisocial adult. Your daughter was punched by an antisocial kid? Negative experience - the best teacher. Bad language? She will get exposed to it sooner or later.I wouldn't worry too much about it.I'd worry if the academic standard was poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartie Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Well today was the second time in a year that my younger daughter, who is a gentle natured and loving child (I swear I'm not being biased), has been punched in the face at school. She's 9! The first time was at another school in another town, so I can't even say it's the particular school. She spent 2 hours in sick bay with an ice pack and no one saw fit to phone me and notify me that there had been an incident. My older daughter was with her when she went to sick bay and overheard the secretary saying that this was the 5th child that had been hurt today. Later in the day, the school went into "lock down"......I had to have it explained to me what that was all about, cause I'd never heard anything of the sort. Apparently a particularly bad behaved child in the school went beserk and they had to lock all the kids in the classrooms until they had him under control. Huh??? I'm feeling a bit dispondent at the moment with things. I don't want to have to tell my daughters to learn to retaliate when things like this happen, as this is just stooping to the same level and I would like them to be bigger than that. But gee whiz........ these are 9 year old kids. The child was "spoken" to !!!!! Damn good hiding is what he really needs. At the end of last year, the same daughter's teacher suddenly went on leave and only returned this year. The story is that one of the unruly kids climbed into him. Punching and kicking him in the groin. The teacher grabbed the child's arm to restrain him and the teacher got suspended because they aren't allowed to touch the kids.Do I have to put my kids into private schools to avoid this?? We have 3 children and we really can't afford that route, but really starting to feel a bit let down by the lack of discipline in the public schools.My kids are far from angels, but have been brought up to know that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable. Can't understand how these kids get away with it. Have overheard some of them effing and blinding at their parents, who don't even batter an eyelid. 2 girls who my daughters had made friends with, returned from holidays with pierced lips......aged 10 and 12 Needless to say, I've told them that they need to find new friends. I'm far from a prude.........believe me...........but some of these kids are out of control!!Sorry for the gripes, but I just had to let off some steam. Anyone else had any similar incidents and if so how did you deal with them??CandiceCandice, I am not in Oz yet so have no right to comment on a personal note but from what I have heard from people who are there and have been there are on holiday, alot of the kids there are out of control. Bullying and punching is not acceptable in my books and if that makes me a prude so be it - I dont care!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Rebecca's school is great... and so far we haven't had an incident like this...However, Rebecca did come home today saying that... and I quote...'Hey Mom, James told to me and Ashwin to fu@k off'....I was blown away... Rebecca knows what to say and not to say... the fact that she repeated it direct and didn't say... Mom, he said 'Ef off'... was a surprise to me in itself...I think it all comes from what these kids are taught at home, and I genuinely feel for teachers and headmasters... the kids can get away with a lot... and I don't think it's because the teachers like it....red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebonnet Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Sorry to hear about your trouble, this is terrible. I know I do not live in Australia, but I lived in the US for 17 years, and had my fair share of bad experiences in public schools, believe me. My heart goes out to the teachers, they sit with these kids, some with ADD, others ADHD and some just with no respect and no manners. I decided that my kids will not learn well in a classroom where the teachers constantly have trouble with kids who just do not want to learn, have no respect for the teachers, and some are even agressive, ect. ect. I then decided on private schools, and that was the best decision I ever made. Yes, it is expensive, but worth it. You seem to be very calm about your experience, I admire you. I am not so sure how I would have handled it, but I think not so nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 She will get exposed to it sooner or later.Hey Omzig,I hear what you are saying, it just must be scary for the poor kids who haven't grown up like that... I look at Rebecca and think to myself at seven, she still has plenty time to learn about the nasty side of life...Take care,red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartie Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I agree, u can expect it from a teenager but not a little one.I definately blame the parents all the way...... And if you cant smack in Oz u can certainly take away the kids privileges - That never harmed anyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omzig Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 (edited) I agree, u can expect it from a teenager but not a little one.I definately blame the parents all the way...... And if you cant smack in Oz u can certainly take away the kids privileges - That never harmed anyoneWell, and I disagree, and here is why:Bad parents will be as prevalent in the RSA as in Australia. Well, probably more so in RSA, but let's not get into the demographics issue. The exposure to the "bad" language will be comparable. I'm pretty sure that a 7 year old in RSA is exposed to the same language as a 7 year old in Australia. The only real difference is that the SA kid will never say the "bad" words in front of you, because of fear of immediate corporal punishment. That kid will, however, still use the acquired bad language in front of other kids. I'd rather have the transparency and the trust of my kid(s) and deal with the issues by providing logical explanations as to why something is "bad" or "good".Smacking is conclusively and scientifically proven to be a useless, archaic and harmful form of discipline. I'm glad that it's outlawed in Australia. Pity that some South African parties so strongly oppose anti-smacking laws. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_puni...oral_punishment Edited February 5, 2009 by Omzig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebonnet Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Candice,I grew up in Germany where the behaviour that you are describing is considered normal. School uniforms were not used. There were gangs and drugs in school. And so what? It's just an early introduction to the real world.The fact that a 10 year old has had his lips pierced doesn't mean that he will turn into a useless and antisocial adult. Your daughter was punched by an antisocial kid? Negative experience - the best teacher. Bad language? She will get exposed to it sooner or later.I wouldn't worry too much about it.I'd worry if the academic standard was poor.I have to say I do not agree with you. I have not seen 10 or even 12 year olds have their lips pierced here in Switzerland or Germany or any of the places we have been to in Europe. Yes, many 16 year olds and up, but not 10 year olds. As for the schools, my son is in an International School here in Switzerland, no gangs, no body piercings, no drugs no alcohol, that I can assure you. They will not last very long, the principal does not tolerate any noncense at all. I do not think being puched in the face by an out of control kid needs to be tolerated and seen as a negative experience. As for the bad language, yes, kids will get exposed to it, but they can also choose their friends and hang out with those who prefer to watch their language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polly Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 So far we have not had any incidents like that (nothing even close). My kids are in a government school. We cannot and I don't think will ever be able to afford private schooling. That said, we are quite happy with the school. It is a relatively small school, but has a very good reputation. Classes are smallish (around 18 to 20 kids).Some private schools in surrounding areas have had some absolutely terrible things happen, so I don't think it is restricted to public schools. You have to look carefully at the area you stay to see what the schools are like With zoning, you will probably end up paying more to get your child into a good school.I taught in a very high-class school in South Africa where we were forced by the education department to take back a student who verbally abused a female teacher (to the point she laid criminal charges) and threw urine over another. Unfortunately this happens everywhere. It isn't just Australian kids, or US kids, or British kids. The problem is everywhere these days. All we can hope to do is teach our children better.Hope you get this sorted or find a good alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartie Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 (edited) Well, and I disagree, and here is why:Bad parents will be as prevalent in the RSA as in Australia. Well, probably more so in RSA, but let's not get into the demographics issue. The exposure to the "bad" language will be comparable. I'm pretty sure that a 7 year old in RSA is exposed to the same language as a 7 year old in Australia. The only real difference is that the SA kid will never say the "bad" words in front of you, because of fear of immediate corporal punishment. That kid will, however, still use the acquired bad language in front of other kids. I'd rather have the transparency and the trust of my kid(s) and deal with the issues by providing logical explanations as to why something is "bad" or "good".Smacking is conclusively and scientifically proven to be a useless, archaic and harmful form of discipline. I'm glad that it's outlawed in Australia. Pity that some South African parties so strongly oppose anti-smacking laws. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_puni...oral_punishmentI will agree to disagree as this could go on forever but at the end of the day rubbish breeds rubbish!!! We grew up with smacking and we came out alright. Sometimes talking just does not work. I have a teenager and talking does not work hence I take away privileges and boy oh boy THAT WORKS !! Edited February 5, 2009 by Smartie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Right or wrong aside.I wonder if there would be any merit in setting up a meeting with the Principle to discuss this. Firstly, I would want to know whether my child had been punched by the same child or by different kids. Secondly, I would want to know if there was a specific victimization of my child happening, or was it purely a random incident. I would be very firm in pointing out that it is the schools responsibility to ensure that these things do not happen and if they were not prepared to deal with it effectively (ie, this should not occur again to your child), then I would be pressed to take legal action.Heck - I have no idea whether you would have any legal grounds or not, but if you come across as firm, in control and as if you were a professional advocate, chances are, they would buy it and take it seriously. It is difficult to explain, but it is all to do with your manner - for example, my husband has that firm, no nonsence demeanor about him. That coupled with a clipped German accent - when he walks into the bank for instance to sort out a problem, people fall over themselves to sort it out. If I walk in and am nice and apologetic (even though the fault is with them), I get ignored. I then get cross and I get no assistance either.I would say - go straight to the top and tackle it hard. Don't get emotional - be factual, firm and controled. Let them know that you expect them to sort it out, because it is their job and that you full expect not to have to visit them again with a similar complaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omzig Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I have to say I do not agree with you. I have not seen 10 or even 12 year olds have their lips pierced here in Switzerland or Germany or any of the places we have been to in Europe.Hi Edwina,and where exactly did I say I saw this?I have seen a red herring before though.My argument is that it probably bears no reflection on their personality as adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyC Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 My wife is a teacher in one of the primary schools here in PE. The kids have very poor discipline and they are a cocky and arrogant bunch. They sometimes get away with murder and make it nearly impossible for the teachers to give class - not to mention the fact that they are distracting other kids who actually want to learn something. It really is a pity that they took away corporal punishment. These days teachers have to break a kid down emotionally and humiliate him personally in order to get him to behave. In the old days "6 of the best" used to do the trick - quick and efficient. I was in Std1 (9yrs old) when I went to the principles office for the first time. I got two lashes with the cane. Do I have emotional scars - no way! Did I commit the same offence? Nope... Kids that bully others should be expelled immediately. The sooner they learn their lesson in life the better for them. Rather that than go to jail one day for criminal activities.OZNSW, I am really sorry to hear what happened. No child deserves to be mistreated and humiliated like this! Alle voorspoed en sterkte vir julle.JimmyC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartie Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Well said Jimmy C. It seems morals and ethics in this world are slowly dimineshing and its up to us as parents to instill them again. Here here to all those good parents bringing up their children with good values and good morals. The world needs each and everyone one of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joefromsa Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 OZNSWI'm sorry to hear what happened...Amandla to Corporal punishment, Amandla.... (it works....)It is also a management issue, by both parents and the principal... clearly this child is not being managed at home and the parents think it is best to shift that responsibility to the school, ie. teaching staff and principal...My view point, approach the principal, call a spade a spade... if it happens again and he is cannot manage the situation, threaten with laying a charge at the police station and going to the local papers... I'm sure the principal would not want the school governing body questioning his ability to manage the school.If the people in your area think that you are over reacting... tough.... no 9 yo should go through that... school is suppose to be fun....The other solution is to teach your kids to fight back and then apologise... that also works...joefromsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omzig Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Smartie,all this talk about "instilling them AGAIN", and "I WAS smacked and I'm OK" makes me think that you mean the good old TRADITIONAL values, could this be so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindyM Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Hi CandiceI really have to agree with Gizmo and go to both the headmaster and teacher. Ask if they have a high number of children who are a disturbing influence in the school and in her class room. Ask other mothers that are hanging around - believe me- most of them will not like their kids to be hit for no reason. Time will tell if your kids are going to be affected by the behaviour of a few unruly kids and if they feel threatened to play during breaks. If thats the case then I would start looking again at schools and ask what their bullying policy is- they all have them. My son was in a state school for 4 yrs and not once was he hit or bullyed. Its all to do with how strict the headmaster is in accepting types like that into the school. Never heard of a "Lock Down" happening. Good luck and I am thinking of you as non of this is easy or nice to go through.Lindy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrea Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I have never experienced any such dramas at our local public primary school. My kids school is so 'loving and caring' its ridiculous. If I was you, I would be camping outside the school demanding to see the principal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartie Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Smartie,all this talk about "instilling them AGAIN", and "I WAS smacked and I'm OK" makes me think that you mean the good old TRADITIONAL values, could this be so?I dont know what u are going on about but this was actually Candice's post and she needs our support so I am gonna close the door on this one in respect to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted February 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Thanks for all the replies. Gizmo, the 2 incidences were at 2 separate schools unfortunately, so no, not even the same child or her being victimized.Omzig, I know well that piercings do not reflect personality as adults............I happen to have a few myself....but I'm and adult and did not need my parents' consent to have these done. Here in Australia you need a parent's signature to have anything pierced if you are under 16, so it baffles my brain that a parent would sign for a 10 year old to have a big diamond stud in her lip. Plenty of time for that later in life if they choose to do so. As for swearing, my children are far from sheltered, but have been horrified at how some children speak to their parents or teachers.Anyway, I do not want my childrens' life experiences to be learnt through being punched and bullied and having to learn to do the same back. Especially seen as the 2 at school already are girls. Will defintitely be monitoring the situation. I'm sure it's not a problem at all schools, but has just been unfortunate for us that both schools seem to have a major problem with bullying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartie Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Hi Candice, My 15yr old had a second piercing done to her ear a few weeks ago and I also had to sign the consent form. We are still in SA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanne Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Candice, I am sorry to hear about your daughter, i would take this further if I were you, a 'talking to' is not enough. JimmyC, I agree wholeheartedly, this child should be expelled. Kids need to understand that bad behaviour leads to negative consequences. Failing to deal out punishment is not doing perpertrators or victims any good at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted February 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I dont know what u are going on about but this was actually Candice's post and she needs our support so I am gonna close the door on this one in respect to her.Thanks Smartie Didn't realise this would open another whole can of worms Was just trying to vent some frustration and look for a bit of advice. Which I have got.....Thanks all. I'm glad to see I'm not alone in thinking it is an abnormal situation and not one to have to just sit back and take.Candice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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