What is wrong with Aus?

[Emille]

Afrikaans first / English second:

Dis ook wat ek graag wou weet voor ek hier aangekom het. Almal se net hoe wonderlik dit is en dis goed om te weet wat mense ervaar as negatief- sal afhang van mens tot mens. my post is maar net vinnig die goed waaraan ek kan dink. Ek dink dis goed dat mense die ander kant van die coin ook hoor. party mense helder Aus op asof dit utopia is. nie SA of Aus is utopia nie- alles is nie sleg in SA en alles is nie goed in Aus nie. maar all in all dink ek as jy n objektiewe sommetjie (wat onmoonlik is) sal maak sal Aus baie baie ver 'wen' in wat goed is

This is also something that I wanted to know before we came. Everybody usually just tell you how wonderful things are here in Aus and its good to balance that with what is negative- but this would be very subjective and differ from person to person. its good to hear the other side of the coin. some people present Aus as if its utopia. Sa is not only bad (may be in Joburg it is...) and everything is not good in Aus. but i think if you make a calculation Aus will win hands down with its positives

REMEMBER NEVER TO COMPARE THE NEGATIVES OF ONE COUNTRY WITH THE POSITIVES OF THE OTHER COUNTRY- COMPARE THE NEGATIVE WITH NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE WITH POSITIVE. I learned this when we lived in the UK and i started comparing the negatives of London with the positives of Cape Town- big mistake

[Queensland Girl]

Emille- I think this is a regional problem. I can basically see any discipline of specialist in two weeks. ( I also have private health)

[AllisonW]

I agree with Emille. You cant compare. I dont know why people get sensitive about this issue. I am not going out of blind loyalty and i am sure that there will be problems. Some might not even be problems, just differences. This is a great thread and i like knowing what to expect when i get there.

Keep them coming!

Al

[Cyberdeth]

Guys don't take my post out of context, I'm not sensitive about this subject, and I agree it's good that you have questions about a country. I'm not blindly advocating Australia, although it does seem that way. I've been to a couple of countries and when going to a country I see it as an adventure. It's a change in lifestyle. It's a change in how you approach life. Like I said no place if perfect and for some people the grass isn't greener on the other side.

I think, don't go to Aus with any pre-conceptions. You can get some advice from people, but the only way you will really find out, is if you try it yourself. Be willing to learn and be willing to experience a new way of life. I'm not saying Aus is the best country for everyone, there are a lot of other places which are better, Canada comes to mind, but a lot of people choose Aus for it's location.

It's climate is similar to ours, the people, even though a bit arrogant and such, are pretty similar actually, the environment is similar. Crime is pretty low, unemployment, barring the recession, is actually pretty low. Interest rates are pretty low, i think it's about 6.5 or 7% now.

The reason I'm leaving is not the crime, it's the AA market or any of those, they do play a part, but it's not the reason. I'm purely moving to further my career. Why don't I go to the UK then ? Like I said the weather sucks. America, the land of the free just got a little harder to get into the past couple of years.

So I'm saying, it's good that you ask questions. But like Emile said, compare negatives to negative and vice-versa. But also look at your current situation that you are in, and ask yourself, if you have kids or want kids. Do you want your children to live and grow up in a place where crime, corruption, murder and rape is at the order of the day. I can almost forecast what's going to be on SABC news tonight, or on news24. Woman or teen raped by 4 men. Man killed over a cellphone. Zuma's case thrown out of court because the docket "went missing". Man hijacked in secure complex. But I'm not negative

[bluebonnet]

I agree with Emille. You cant compare. I dont know why people get sensitive about this issue. I am not going out of blind loyalty and i am sure that there will be problems. Some might not even be problems, just differences. This is a great thread and i like knowing what to expect when i get there.

Keep them coming!

Al

You will be fine in Australia, 100% fine. and very happy. Do not worry about all the "problems" which are sometimes, as you mentioned, just differences that we have to face.

[bluebonnet]

Ok dit gaan nou baie weird klink maar al wat ek mis is Fruit & Veg City!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Al wat ek nie van Aus hou nie is die Asian Invasion......

I will not comment on this, honestly, this is rude. VERY RUDE INDEED I am also a foreigner in my current country, and would not like the Swiss talking like that about me. (SA/USA Invasion,,there are many South African/US citizens in Switzerland) Are you not a foreigner/immigrant in Australia yourself??

[bluebonnet]

My wife is of Chinese heritage, even though she has never set foot in China. She is highly educated, and extremely hardworking. A comment like that of Trudie is highly offensive, and is very hurtful. It borders on racism.

Please do not let it bother you, it is not worth it. My son's best friend in the International School is Chinese, he helps my son with Mandarin, not an easy subject this year. I was also hurt at first and commented on it, but let it be.

[AndreaL]

Ok, so everybody keeps on going on about how fantastic Aus is. It has to be, I'm going also.

BUT

Nothing is perfect.

So what would you say is bad, sucks, or has room for improvement in Aus?

This was the original post, a healthy and realistic question for someone about to leave everything they have ever known behind, so how did we get to where we are now in this topic.

Chastising and blaming one another, accusations and denials of racism, turning on one another, becoming defensive........... I really hate it when it ends up this way.

We are supposed to help each other not turn on one another.

Coert was out of order and Mara has dealt with this, TrudieD used an unfortunate choice of words- the reason I say that is because they are not hers.

" Asian Invasion" is a phrase coined by Australians that Trudi has obviously picked up from Australians.

This all dates back to the Pauline Hanson/ One Nation days, the very woman who when asked if she was xenophobic said " please explain", obviously she didn't know what it meant and aren't we lucky she is not ruling the country.

There are Australians who don't like immigrants, particularly from Asia- you get people everywhere in the world with prejudiced ideas.

Fear and suspicion of other cultures is rife throughout the globe, but South Africans get nailed for it more than others.

Who has not heard statements like this......

" The Germans steal all the loungers round the pool"

" Americans are loud and brash"

" British people are all dirty"

" Chinese people spit everywhere"

" Indians eat with their hands"

" South Africans are arrogant"

" Europeans pick there teeth all the time and the women don't shave"

......... I could go on, but what is the point, it is so silly and we haven't even started with religion........ only joking.

I would love to hear what the Japanese think about foreign visitors to their country etc!

Every nation views others subjectively and it is normal, it is when it gets malicious, physical or destructive that it becomes something sinister and not a wrong/ right stereotype.

Maybe it is time to get back to the subject at hand, so............ after thinking for at least 30 seconds, one of my gripes is the Australian media...... every story is blown up enormously and usually ends up on either "Today Tonight" or " A current Affair" complete with digruntled members of the public and calls of " and I want to know what the government is going to do about it!"

And this can be something ridiculous like a man forced to use a weed-eater to cut the long grass outside his house, because despite calling the council 6 weeks ago they still haven't done it!

Hey but, the flip side is if you make a noise about small problems then they don't become big problems.

Gotta love the Ozzies, they surely are " fair dinkum"

[AReyeP]

I will not comment on this, honestly, this is rude. VERY RUDE INDEED I am also a foreigner in my current country, and would not like the Swiss talking like that about me. (SA/USA Invasion,,there are many South African/US citizens in Switzerland) Are you not a foreigner/immigrant in Australia yourself??

On the subject of racism, the Australia I knew and grew up in was (despite what people may think to the contrary because of the so called "White Australia Policy") a very tolerant society. I myself grew up next to a half Japanese Aussie family (the dad was Aussie, the mum Japanese), and their 2 boys were half Japanese. They were our best friends and no one gave a hoot if they were of Asian background - they proudly called themselves Aussies, and this in a time (the 1960s) when people of European descent made up the bulk of the population. Both were in the Air cadets as teenagers, and one of them went on the join the Australian Army.

One of my mother's best friends during the early 70s (a white woman) was married to a black guy. This was out of the norm in those days, but no one gave them a hard time. He was a nice bloke and was always welcome in our home.

Later in life (the 90s) I worked as a security guard at a factory for a decade. We had some black Mauritian guys working there, and a guy and his wife from Ghana (both recent immigrants and black). The Mauritian guys adopted the Aussie culture as their own. They followed Aussie Rules too and next thing you know they were just like the rest of us. The ones from Ghana were cleaners, but they'd have a laugh and a joke with us and we were calling them "mate" just as we would anyone else. Sure, there were a few rough nuts that would crack the odd "racial" joke, but they'd throw one back and we were all laughing and the best of mates. And that, as my father once said, is the Aussie way. If you can cop a joke and give one back, you'll be right.

To sum it all up, what really irks me more than anything else is when some know it all comes up to me and says "ooooh, Australia is a very racist country, isn't it?" I disagree. It believe is one of the most tolerant countries in the world. Some people just abuse that tolerance though, and that's when the problems start.

Yep, as in any country, you will get racism in Aus, but I think this is a term that's been used out of context to a large degree these days. The Australia I know is generally a very tolerant culture, albeit a bit of a larrikin culture in many ways I suppose ... I see it as like a diamond in the rough. It's far from perfect, it has its faults, but it's ours, and we're happy enough with it and would like to keep it. One of our greatest fears is losing our culture and our ways to that of another. That's why many people fear having a huge influx of people from a vastly different culture coming into the country. Immigrants are welcome so long as they accept our ways, and make an effort to understand and respect our culture. They can still observe their own culture, so long as it doesn't infringe unfairly on the local one (eg: try to ban Christmas carols being sung at schools and you're sure to cause resentment). That's why the Italians and Greeks fit in so well - they kept their Italian and Greek traditions too but they embraced the local culture too. The Lebanese on the other hand, whilst the majority of them are decent people, have a bad reputation due to a small hard core element that goes around bad mouthing Australia. One example seen is the Lebanese flag superimposed over the Australian one with a statement below saying "Under New Management". Australia welcomes immigrants looking for a better life, but in general isn't very tolerant of those who want to trod all over local customs to recreate the very system that caused all the problems back where they came from. Likewise, those who come to Aus and make no effort whatsoever to try to fit in will probably find they won't fit in. No surprise there, but then it's no good trying to blame "racist Aussies" in such a situation as some do.

Anyway, sorry for waffling on so much I'm just trying to paint what I see as an accurate picture so as you have a better idea of what to expect. Saffers shouldn't have a thing to worry about Your culture and general ways are very similar to Aus. Despite the ever present shadow of crime, I feel more at home in SA than I would in America, Britain or Canada, and I don't have any fellow Aussies to make me feel at home. Take away the high fences where I live and it could look just like a suburb in Aus. But more than that, it's the local South Africans that make me feel at home. You should feel the same in Aus, and you have the advantage of having so many expatriates to share your experiences with and ultimately make new friends. Plus you won't have all the problems SA now has what with brutal crime, corruption, neglect of infrastructure etc. Some of you will miss home terribly, especially if you have family here, and for these people it will indeed be a difficult transition. But I honestly believe you have a better chance of making a go of things in Aus than anywhere else.

Last year we were travelling on a bus in Perth, it was around lunch time and the bus was pretty full.

My teen son stood up for a lady as she got on the bus and offered for her to sit down. Well, blow me down if she didn't turn on him and say "do I look cripple or something?"

He was SO embarassed as everyone turned to look. But let me tell you, I was the PROUDEST Mom in the world!

There ARE still lots of young people with manners, and we need to encourage them to maintain this good behaviour and take responsibility for those within our own social circles.

I personally have no qualms in correcting rude/naughty children if they misbehave or forget their manners in my home (if the parents don't bother to discipline them). My space, my rules!

Good on you zorba! This is exactly one of the biggest problems in Aus today. Parents don't teach their kids manners, morals or discipline. Maybe it's because they fear some do gooder accusing them of being a child abuser if they give their toddler a pat on the bum for misbehaving. As for manners, it's easy to think twice about opening a door for a lady or offering a seat for fear of being sneered at for doing so. I remember once holding open the door for a woman at a 7-11 one day, and got the rudest of looks from her. Yeeeeez! Sorry maaam! I guess that kind of thing is seen as male chauvenistic or whatever these days. Good manners are out of fashion, and many of the youth of today know it. I think though this is also a product of American influence via the media/TV etc. Add to that Aussies have had it good for so long they have forgotten what hardship is all about.

And you know something? That's why I welcome Saffers into Aus - seriously, you'll be a good influence on us, and maybe remind us of all we once had that was so good before we forget altogether.

[AndreaL]

The Australia I know is generally a very tolerant culture, albeit a bit of a larrikin culture in many ways I suppose ... I see it as like a diamond in the rough. It's far from perfect, it has its faults, but it's ours, and we're happy enough with it and would like to keep it.

Bravo

How very beautifully put.

[GTrotter]

Lol, I actually find this quite amusing. The way world dynamics are shifting our children would probably be moving to asian countries in 20 years time. the east will be the new destination of choice for immigrants and they might start complaining about the pale invasion!!

[bluebonnet]

Lol, I actually find this quite amusing. The way world dynamics are shifting our children would probably be moving to asian countries in 20 years time. the east will be the new destination of choice for immigrants and they might start complaining about the pale invasion!!

Funny is it not. My son (15) thinks it is cool to study Mandarin, and it is good to have a knowledge of the language for the future...(his words) I admire him, I have a difficult enough time with my german.

[Michelle Taylor]

Liewe gros Zee, iets erg het met jou post gebeur. Jammer om te sien dat mense so hand uit ruk.

[bluebonnet]

Hi Coert

My seun is in n staats skool vir begaafde kinders in Queensland. Daar is 300 kinders in die skool. Slegs 50 van die kinders is blank. Die res is van Chinese en Indiese families. Die werketiek en gedrag van hierdie kinders is uitsonderlik.My seun se beste vriende is een n Muslim en die ander n Korean van geboorte. Hulle is so Australiaans as wat kan kom, en is die wonderlikste jong mans. Vir my is die een van grootste plusse van Australie- dat my seun kan meng met all rasse en gelowe en glad nie dink hulle is anders nie. Vir hom is hulle maar net sy pelle.

Ek het tot dieselfde gevolgtrekking in die USA gekom. Chinese, Indiese, Koreanse en so aan kinders presteer meestal beter. Die rede is dat hulle van kleins af meer gevorder word deur die ouers ook. Alles moontlik word gedoen om hulle kinders beter te laat presteer. Ek dink dit het te doen daarmee (somtyds) dat hulle nie die kanse gehad het nie, en nou in hulle nuwe land hulle kinders n beter lewe wil gee. Maar dit is die mentaliteit van hierdie kinders ook, hulle werk harder, speel minder computer games, party minder, ens. In ons dorp was meeste dr. uit die Ooste. Dit begin in die skoolbanke. My seun is in n Internationale Skool hier in Switzerland,,hulle is 15 studente in sy klas (9th en 10th graders) en uit 8 verskillende lande..baie baie interessant, hy kry beslis n uitstekende opleiding en leer dat almal maar net dieselfde is, maak nie saak van waar jy is nie.

Ek dink mens kan Australia baie met Switzerland vergelyk,,baie naby aan perfek, behalwe Australia het die mooi weer. en die see.

[ZLeigh]

Nee sies nig, dis nie my skuld nie!

[AllisonW]

As English speaking south africans we are always joking that we will be able to speak afrikaans forever in Oz and the kids will not be able to understand as they wont learn it. Now hubby jokes that they will learn to speak mandarin and then we will be stuck! So he says that if they are speaking mandarin in front of us we will know that they are up to something.

I think that the multi cultural nature of Oz is part of its charm. AreyeP, i think that your piece was wonderful and just made me more excited about coming to Oz.

This is not a negative thread at all.

[IslandStyle]

My son (15) thinks it is cool to study Mandarin, and it is good to have a knowledge of the language for the future... (his words).

That's great - I wish I could learn a new language, would love to learn Japanese.

[IslandStyle]

I actually find this quite amusing. The way world dynamics are shifting, our children would probably be moving to Asian countries in 20 years' time. The East will be the new destination of choice for emigrants and they might start complaining about the pale invasion!

;] Very interesting viewpoint!

[IslandStyle]

One of my gripes is the Australian media... every story is blown up enormously and usually ends up on either 'Today Tonight' or 'A Current Affair', complete with disgruntled members of the public and calls of "...and I want to know what the government is going to do about it!"

And this can be something ridiculous like a man forced to use a weed-eater to cut the long grass outside his house, because despite calling the council 6 weeks ago they still haven't done it!

Hey but, the flip side is if you make a noise about small problems then they don't become big problems.

That's great to hear - if that's what's really happening down under, then I'm _so_ looking forward to go there!

[IslandStyle]

...for some people the grass isn't greener on the other side.

No really, it's _not_ greener! With the exception of certain areas in NSW and QLD, maybe.

I'm not saying Aus is the best country for everyone, there are a lot of other places which are better, Canada comes to mind, but a lot of people choose Aus for it's location.

(Off topic) Canada _barely_ scores higher on _some_ ratings. In fact, I've found them to be very similar - except for the weather of course. I'd love to hear from you on why you would think so, but I'll rather first scan the forum to see what has been said.

America, the land of the free just got a little harder to get into the past couple of years.

What's so nice about that place?