Will you return to South Africa?

[Riekie]

There's a lot of (conflicting) talk about South Africans returning to South Africa. I was just wondering what the reality is. As you know, the forum polls on SAAustralia are all 100% anonymous, so please make your tick.....

[PappaMike]

As I always say, "My huis is waar my dubbelbed is."

As of 28 June 07, this particular piece of furniture has been parked in Bunbury, West Oz. Before then it was Perth (2 years). So "Bunno" is where my home, and my heart, is.

I'm definitely chuffed with my new lifestyle, we live on the doorstep of the most beautiful old growth forrests (which aren't being protected well by the local State Govt., I might add ) and wineries. The beach is a cool 2km from my doorstep , my parents about 10km

Yes, of course there are things over here that I do not particularly like (e.g. disrespectful youth ), but the fantastically positive things overshadow the negative by far. Where shall I begin...?

But perhaps the biggest bonus of all is the fact that I do not have to live in fear anymore. Not for myself, my bride nor children. Isn't that the coolest thing?

Cheers, PM (see, told ya I'm happy!)

Edited November 15, 2007 by PappaMike

[Garfield]

Hi Annecke

Ek sien nou eers jou mail. Ek was baie lanklaas op die site. Ons probeer ook om die inde2009 te immigreer.

Ek lag so oor wat jy se oor die eier kook, hehee het nooit so letterlik daarna gekyk nie.

Sterkte vir julle met al die planne

Groete

Garfield

Hi Manny

Only see your reply now. To answer your question. I have googled houses in Brisbane and if I see what we can buy for our money, I see much smaller gardens and it just seemed that houses are more expenive.

Maybe I am wrong. We will be leaving on our LSD trip this Wednesday. Cannot wait. Then we will have a more realistic view of things.

Will keep everybody posted on this.

Garfield

[Guest Mauritz]

My philosophy is simple. I class nations/people into either 'builders' or 'breakers'. A couple of 100 years ago a bunch of 'breakers' were dropped on the shores of Aus - the 'convicts'. Just look at this country - look at the opportunities. How can that be???

Southern Africa is supposed to be the heart of the 'origin of mankind'. Just look at Africa - the only continent that managed to move backwards at an alarming rate, the last 50 years. It seems that every soul that left Africa, that is right from the 'origin of mankind', achieved something. Zimbabwe once was known as 'the food basket of Africa' - now people are starving ....... people are starving. How can that be?????

I see myself as a 'builder' and I'm bloody proud of it - what must I do in Africa????? Fight another war???? Fight another group of breakers who are breaking down well established systems???? Build something, only to see it destroyed again. Live my standard of life, established by my ancestors, behind burglar proofing - behind 6ft fences?????? It is time that I join a nation of builders - a place where I belong - a place where I can build.

I'm sick and tired looking at Africa - looking at one country after another turning into a classical Banana Republic. I'm sick and tired - looking at people breaking, destroying not only the land, but themselves. I'm sick and tired of the stupidity - the natural ability to self destruct. I'm sick and tired watching my back for that ever present hyena with the AK47 - the 'king' of Africa.

I'll NEVER go back to stay.

Edited December 23, 2007 by Mauritz

[MANDYL]

ditto ! well said !! jy praat waar !! so bek moet jem kry ! that's the way to go ... ok you get the pitcure ...ja baas ek stem ek bly net hier in my nuwe land en praat oor die ander een !

[JayJay]

Ja Oom Maurits.... maar eintlik is jy 'n laaitie wat ryp gedruk is!!!!

Soos Mandy sê ek ook - well said!!!

Dis wragtig waaroor Afrika gaan!!!

So 'n ietsie on meer lig op die onderwerp te plaas

[Mupersan]

I have wanted to move to Aus for many years, and am only now in a position to actually do it. looking back, i kick myself for not being as focused as I am now.. late start, late bloom, hopefully not too late.. I only found my niche a few years ago, I am now 37, unfortunately, there are no degrees or dilpomas for my industry, in South Africa, but in Oz and a few other countries, these are available.. I hope that I ca study while working, and that this will aid towards my PR.. A long Road ahead...

[Jordy]

I am now 37,

I have no idea why, but the name Mupersan" made me picture you as a ou tannie in her 50's. Wierd how we attach a mental image to a name.

[milo]

I have no idea why, but the name Mupersan" made me picture you as a ou tannie in her 50's. Wierd how we attach a mental image to a name.

No! No! No! I saw a sexy guy in a budgie smuggler looking something like Superman!!!

[Mupersan]

No! No! No! I saw a sexy guy in a budgie smuggler looking something like Superman!!!

LOL ..

I hate to burst a bubble here, but Mupersan comes from our company LOGO, MS, mascotte solutions.. Mandys brother designed it knowing that we shared a liking for super heros and our business was about the entertainment industry, theatre, movies etc.. you will probably see it around oz one of these years... Although, that said... I have Superman screamed at me a few times a day cos our branding is on my bakkie, and my work shirt has a large MS logo on the front.. very effective, and loads of fun

Oh and Milo, I have a tattoo on my shoulder blade with the logo.. but sorry, no smugglers, and pretty well built from climbing around installation sites.

Milo, you made my day..

[Julie K]

We are all exiles, but our roots are in SA, our friends and families still there our ways are forever a part of our life, so instead of hating, let us try and help, for the sake of those, that cannot leave or will not leave, the old the poor and those that are prepared to ride out the storm, and are convinced that things can change, if you read history all that is happenining in our beloved country, has happened in other countries, and history can repeat, as it did in other countries, the old people love their way of life, and their beloved SA, SO LET US KEEP THEM IN MIND

Very nicely said. There seems to be too much of an us-and-them attitude ie. Oz versus SA, when in fact, we are all citizens of the world and the world belongs to each one of us. I am still in SA and moving across in Feb. Right now, I am very heartsore about leaving Africa for I feel it is in my blood. But I do believe I am doing the right thing by moving to Oz and I look forward to my new life there. I feel for the poor people left in SA who would love to get out but cannot. I think we can so easily mask our grief of leaving our country for another land with an attitude of brittle arrogance bordering on rage/anger. While I realise it is important to remember why you have left SA in the first place to make settling into a new place easier, let's not forget the good stuff about South Africa even if we wouldn't ever dream of living in SA again.

JulieK

[milo]

[Dpruse]

There's a lot of (conflicting) talk about South Africans returning to South Africa. I was just wondering what the reality is. As you know, the forum polls on SAAustralia are all 100% anonymous, so please make your tick.....

I am thinking of relocating from the middle -east to Aus on a more permanent basis. For me there would be 3 main reasons why i would never go back to SA:

1) Even if i can make a good living in SA the future looks a bit bleak for my children. Will their SA qualifications be recognised in 10 years time on the international market? Will they have work? Will AA still be a factor? -This means that there will be a good chance my children will look for a better future somewhere else and i will grow old alone with my grandchildren somewhere in a far off country.

2) With crime in SA as it currently is: When is the right time to decide youv'e had enough? Do you need to wait untill a family member is murdered or your wife hijacked and raped? Or is it maybe wiser to leave before misfortune like that befalls you and rather be branded as a "traitor" by those staying behind?

3) Even in this God Forsaken desert shyte hole that i currently live in i feel more positive about my future than ever in SA. Even if all is turned around in SA and the crime is wiped out, the economy is blooming, Mugabe gets jailed, the rand goes up and the petrol price down: -even then there would allways be that worried nag in the back of my head that wonders when all this would end. SA is (unfortunately) in Africa, and the african way of doing things does not create sustainable wealth. And our esteemed pigmented coleugues in SA is exactly the same as the rest of Africa,- and weve all seen how prosperous Africa is.

[AandJ]

You summed it up nicely!!

[Newcomer]

I have no idea why, but the name Mupersan" made me picture you as a ou tannie in her 50's. Wierd how we attach a mental image to a name.

Hey Jordy!! What you mean "ou tannie in her 50's"!!! 50 is the new 30 - didn't you know? (yes, obviously I'm there...)

[Joguy]

I think there's a negative sentiment towards those who want to go back. It takes just as much courage as it does to go over in the first place and it's a personal decision. So good on you too. Go to: http://www.sagoodnews.co.za/

For those wanting to go back also read:

Accidental Expats

Rich Field was voted one of the top 10 marketing personalities in Australia, yet this ex-pat has returned to South Africa. He tells us why packing for Perth is not all it`s cracked up to be.

Click here http://www.marketingweb.co.za/marketingweb...ingweb%20detail

[Riekie]

Ek kan net weer sê : NEE NEE NOOIT NIE!!! Ek is sommer nou kwaad oor MartinP & Ilze se pa se onmenslike aanval waarvan ek nounet op die forum gelees het! Daai land sien my nooit weer nie!! (Ek moes dit net van my hart af kry..... )

[Riekie]

Rich Field was voted one of the top 10 marketing personalities in Australia, yet this ex-pat has returned to South Africa. He tells us why packing for Perth is not all it`s cracked up to be.

Never heard of this guy. Besides, don't know if he is that honest about his reasoning behind returning to South Africa....

This is what he wrote in the article (above):

So coming back was not a decision based on a lack of opportunity or success in Australia

And this is what he wrote on Homecoming Revolution:

Australia is an incredibly regulated country and, because of the maturity of the economy, short on opportunities.

[GerhardinOz]

When people disagree on something there will always be some level of negativity. I have to say I totally agree that if you want to go back or feel that you have to, you probably should without having to deal with other people’s negativity.

But what $%^&&* me off is that you only hear their views in the media and you know half is absolute rubbish and the rest blown out of proportion. Why don’t you hear from the 100 that stayed in Australia for every one that went back? Why don’t you hear from those that went back and then ended up in Australia AGAIN?

I guess it’s frustration more than anything else. However at the end of the day most people are intelligent enough to see what is the right thing to do for them and it doesn’t really matter how much you argue about these things.

[Patrick31]

Everyone has their opinion and this whole leaving SA for OZ is a sensitive topic.

At the end of the day we all have to deal with the consequences of our own decisions.But been in SA and preparing to leave next year i can tell you that 99% of the people i know now support the move whereas maybe 3 years ago when i started the process,only half supported the move.

I can go down the path as to why i am leaving but its been said a million times on this forum by many different users.

I look forward to the morning i can wake up and not worry what our govement has got up to now....

OZ here i come......

[TYTAN]

But what $%^&&* me off is that you only hear their views in the media and you know half is absolute rubbish and the rest blown out of proportion. Why don’t you hear from the 100 that stayed in Australia for every one that went back? Why don’t you hear from those that went back and then ended up in Australia AGAIN?

Gerhad I agree with you boet!

Simply put, while you live in SA, you will only EVER hear form thoose who have returned. Why on earth would you hear form someone 14000 kilometres across the ocean. For every one that you HEAR about returning to SA - we here in Aus, SEE many more coming in...

Also, the media has to report "positive" messages as they are continually "drukked" by the government...

[Terence.H]

There certainly have been a lot of opinions in this thread, and I have to admit I understand some points of view on both sides, I have been in South Africa long enough to see the changes this country has gone through since the end of apartheid, I arrived when P.W was still in office, as a European I didn't understand the full history of this country as it rarely made news in the U.K unless something "newsworthy" happened, and as a result ALL my friends told me I was MAD! to come here at that time. The power of the media (and its bias depending which country you happen to be in) influences people in ways you cannot comprehend.

But I made the choice to come here and nothing would dissuade me from that. I saw this country as a way out of the hell I personally was experiencing in the U.K, I was suffocating in a closed environment, it felt like I had no space to live in.

When I arrived in Cape Town I saw a city with such immense potential, not just the natural environment of the cape, it was because it was so different to my big city mind and my experiences growing up in London, which is all buildings and none or little natural areas, and if there were any they were man made not natural.

So there was an instant attraction to the city for me, I never ever felt afraid to walk the streets day or night, I would not bother closing my security gates or windows, in fact I always left a door open to the garden so the dogs could come and go as they pleased during the night.

Today however things have definitely changed, I no longer feel safe walking the streets, hell I don't even feel safe in the car anymore, I cannot afford to forget to close the security gates, I can no longer leave my door open for the dogs at night.

WHY?

It can only be because there is no rule of law here anymore! (don't even get me started on the Scorpions) the only effective anti crime unit we had!!!!

Even if a criminal is caught these days they will spend minimal time in jail or get a free pass to freedom when some F@#%#@ government official thinks they need to release the pressure on the jail system because they cant cope with the influx anymore!!! MAKES ME SCREAM!!!

I like some of you have experienced personal attacks, I was almost killed after getting off a train in Woodstock, me in my ignorance went to a known problem area according to the police. If its known then why isn't it being dealt with!!!!!!!????

Its because the police are underfunded!!, there is corruption within there ranks!! no one seems interested in improving things!!! just a lot of rhetoric about improvements and no movement forward!!!

I firmly believe that the situation will not improve, but more likely get worse until we have a corrupt free, funded and motivated police force!!! this is not going to happen in my opinion any time soon and things will only get worse from here on.

Said my piece! take it or leave it. I am angry that this country has turned its back in me, and I am sure that natural born S.A folk are even angrier!! I have no other family here but people that have generations of history here should quite rightly be furious!!!!!! I have given many years of my life to help improve things here but to no avail.

I voted NO NEVER!!!!!

Terence

[Doortjie]

I have a few reasons why I will never go back to stay, but another dozen why I will try to visit at least every 2 years.

I've been back in July for a few weeks and at first everything seemed just wonderful - from a tourist point of view. We enjoyed being spoiled by friends and family and tried hard to see all the positive factors – and there are some! Closer to the end of the stay we couldn’t wait to get back “home†– and home is now Melbourne, Australia.

[CapeTownToolNut]

.....And this is what he wrote on Homecoming Revolution:

Australia is an incredibly regulated country and, because of the maturity of the economy, short on opportunities.

I can understand that statement actually,coz ZA and Africa,is/are still a developing third world country/continent.

There's more room for entrepreneurial trailblazers here,and immensly less qualified competition that one needs to compete with.....i.e just open the map book of ZA and choose a relatively remote town/area,and you'll probably find,with more research,that there's room for a hardware store or a tyre dealership or an electrical or mechanical workshop or a bakery or a womens' shoe shop etc.etc.etc.

Australia, being a first world country, is the opposite.

The trails have been blazed long ago,and commerce is already neatly "sown up" so to speak.

It's commercial regulations are exhaustive and they're enforced.

South Africa on the other hand,has many less commercial regulations, and they are rarely enforced consistently,so there's still that "wild west"potential here (along with all the "wild west" dangers of course).

I think that,when emigrating to Oz, one should make peace with the fact that one is entering a very stabilised country,very well run,where most everything is "just so" and there's no room for deviation therefrom.

Yes, one will find some rules and some attitudes of the locals stifling, and overbearing, and, uneccessarily anal.

But - that's only because we are so used to running roughshod over everybody by following the American business system.e.g I want success and I want it relatively overnight,and if I can get away with it,I will hire and fire at will.

My business success must show everyone that I now live bigger, better, faster, and flashier at all costs.

It will be a real test of one's adaptive strengths to "tone down" and partially "lobotimize" that pushy, and sometimes reckless adrenalin driven entrepreneurial that so many South Africans are accustomed to.

[AReyeP]

I have a few reasons why I will never go back to stay, but another dozen why I will try to visit at least every 2 years.

I've been back in July for a few weeks and at first everything seemed just wonderful - from a tourist point of view. We enjoyed being spoiled by friends and family and tried hard to see all the positive factors – and there are some! Closer to the end of the stay we couldn’t wait to get back “home†– and home is now Melbourne, Australia.

It's true what you say - other than the past couple of years, I've lived all my life in Melbourne as have my kids. My kids came over in July to visit here in Joburg and my son wouldn't have minded staying for half a year ... I think it was my wife's family and the warmth and hospitality that he loved. On top of this South Africa has some beautiful landscape and places to see. Sure we saw some of the bad areas of Joburg and the signs of neglect in the CBD were noticable, and I've told them of the nightmarish crimes that occur here. If <shudder> he experienced the horror first hand then it'd change his mind forever. But from a tourist point of view, it can look very appealing. I've sent photos of some of the nicer areas around Newton Park in PE (where my wife and I lived for a year) and Greenside in Joburg back to family in Aus and I sometimes wonder if they think I'm lying about the problems here! Only the 8 foot high fences and razor wire in the photos etc are the giveaway. Of course when you live here it's a different story.

[MarcK]

Hi I am still in the early phase of this process but keen to sell my house. The lady who came and saw it and fell in love with it....well...she would not buy it because not enough security measures in place....even though I have security bars, gates, automated gates/garages, alarms, armed response and a paid for security guard in the street. It gives an indication of how much crime plays on peoples' minds in this country.