Prophecies about South Africa

[Kapoen]

www.drdino.com

Thanks Alida, youre obviously not as lazy as I am It is HOT! today 40 degrees outside!

[AllisonW]

Forumites,

I have found this entire discussion very stimulating and wish to thank all for the continued engagement. If it is not clear i want to highlight again that i am not stating my case to be difficult - even if we get heated at times. We must talk to grow.

JimmyC, i want to share my journey to atheism as i fear that people believe that atheists are damaged emotionally, as you suggest or that we have never been exposed to christianity. Neither of these are true in my case. I was raised christian and attended a convent (perhaps i should blame the nuns!). My family are Christian. At the time that i started my first degree and really entered tertiary education i was exposed to many ideas. I understand why people on this forum respond with anger. When you are first faced with information that you cannot logically counter, you immediately retreat in the superstition of religion and respond negatively. However there will come a day when you can no longer escape logic and the lies just no longer do it for you. It would be easier to believe. It would be easier to ignore the truth but one simply cant. It would be comforting to believe that there is anyone being "responsible" for me. But this is not so. At some point someone used the word "daddy" to refer to the chrisitan god and i thought it was so telling. It is scarey to be responsible for oneself and one's actions. For me atheism is an act of bravery and being true to oneself and one's existence.

To further explain this i want to refer to transaction analysis - one of the best known models of modern psychology. It was put forward by Eric Berne. He states that at any given time, a person experiences and manifests their personality through a mixture of behaviours, thoughts and feelings. Typically, according to TA, there are three ego-states that people consistently use:

* Parent ("exteropsychic"): a state in which people behave, feel, and think in response to an unconscious mimicking of how their parents (or other parental figures) acted, or how they interpreted their parent's actions. For example, a person may shout at someone out of frustration because they learned from an influential figure in childhood the lesson that this seemed to be a way of relating that worked.

* Adult ("neopsychic"): a state in which people behave, feel, and think in response to what is going on in the "here-and-now," using all of their resources as an adult human being with many years of life experience to guide them. This is the ideal ego state, and learning to strengthen the Adult is a goal of TA. While a person is in the Adult ego state, he/she is directed towards an objective appraisal of reality.

* Child ("archaeopsychic"): a state in which people revert to behaving, feeling and thinking similarly to how they did in childhood. For example, a person who receives a poor evaluation at work may respond as they did in their childhood, by looking at the floor, and feeling shame or anger, as they used to when scolded as a child.

As a mental health professional i often evaluate people who are very religious as being stuck in a child state. They believe what they are told. They dont question authority (in this case the church or god), they want to be taken care of, they defer decisions. Remember that this states are complementary in others and result in games that we play between us. For example if someone takes on a strong parent role, you may respond from a child state, this is called a transaction. I feel that when i embraced atheism i was able to move myself towards a more adult state. I know this is a very simplistic representation of a very complex theory and would encourage to read more about it.

Nick, as someone who follows science i must be open to criticism and i want to apologise if i gave the impression that i tampered with information, in terms of the wiki quote. I thought that as i had uppercased my comment and included it in brackets it would be clear that it was an addition. It that was not clear to you, i take the rapping over the knuckles.

Jimmy, i agree with you i AM relying solely on my reasoning skills and intellect. That is the basis of my life decisions. I am not saying that i am not ever affected by emotions but as far as possible i try to engage with all information from this basis. And i must admit to you that i dont ever question my views. This is what i teach my children and the lens that i see the world through. I think that Christians also get angry with atheists as they believe that they are rejecting god. This is not true, - they dont even believe that there is a god to reject. This is what makes it so difficult for me to respond to many threads. As i dont consider the bible to be a valid source of information at all - i cannot even engage with arguments that are based upon it.

I repeat myself again - science is the most reliable way to view the world:

The great advantage of the scientific method is that it is unprejudiced: one does not have to believe a given researcher, one can redo the experiment and determine whether his/her results are true or false. The conclusions will hold irrespective of the state of mind, or the religious persuasion, or the state of consciousness of the investigator and/or the subject of the investigation. Faith, defined as [*] belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence, does not determine whether a scientific theory is adopted or discarded.

A theory is accepted not based on the prestige or convincing powers of the proponent, but on the results obtained through observations and/or experiments which anyone can reproduce: the results obtained using the scientific method are repeatable. In fact, most experiments and observations are repeated many times (certain experiments are not repeated independently but are repeated as parts of other experiments). If the original claims are not verified the origin of such discrepancies is hunted down and exhaustively studied.

When studying the cosmos we cannot perform experiments; all information is obtained from observations and measurements. Theories are then devised by extracting some regularity in the observations and coding this into physical laws.

There is a very important characteristic of a scientific theory or hypothesis which differentiates it from, for example, an act of faith: a theory must be ``falsifiable''. This means that there must be some experiment or possible discovery that could prove the theory untrue. For example, Einstein's theory of Relativity made predictions about the results of experiments. These experiments could have produced results that contradicted Einstein, so the theory was (and still is) falsifiable.

Finally let me highlight that i stated that the defintion of burden of proof that i put forward is NOT for criminal law. Criminal law is a social construct. Laws of science carry a very different definition of BOP.

And finally, finally, Alida you shock me that you children are not vacinnated. I try not to judge other parents but this for me is very sad. Let your children benefit from science. Immunisation has effectively wiped out certain diseases and is THE best option for all children. VERY funny for me that you say that god is will to hurt intentionally if it will serve a purpose (such as your motor bike accident) but then you wont hurt (very shortly) your human children for their own good. There is some incongruency here. Please go and read the thread on free will again. You cannot have free will if your life path is already mapped out. And if you have control (free will)and not god then he cannot be all powerful. SIMPLE despite the BS .

Thanks for the great discussion.

Allison

[AllisonW]

Just to keep it light hearted - although the message is sound!

Have a good evening!

Edited October 2, 2008 by AllisonW

[Maplasies]

When you are first faced with information that you cannot logically counter, you immediately retreat in the superstition of religion and respond negatively. However there will come a day when you can no longer escape logic and the lies just no longer do it for you. It would be easier to believe. It would be easier to ignore the truth but one simply cant. It would be comforting to believe that there is anyone being "responsible" for me.

I repeat myself again - science is the most reliable way to view the world:

Allison

I quoted only a few sentences.

Many scientists, like myself, are well informed of various theories. I have a great respect for science and the way the world 'works'. BUT even when you know about all these scientific facts, you know it needs a MASTERMIND to put this all together. Therefore most scientists I have met all over the world, believe in God - not because of tradition/brainwashing or because they just need a god.... but because they CHOSE.

I have seen God in many people's lives, experienced miracles and seen God's power physically in the power of prayer. It is no lie...

God is all around us, we can choose to be "clever" and turn away from God,

or choose to be clever enough to understand we aren't ever going to be clever enough to understand the science behind the true Mastermind's Creation. This is why even though we are able to solve some of the mysteries and define how it all works, we have to believe, and not question the Origin of our world,

Hope this made sense.

I will not reply again as so much have been said about this already.

Blessings to all.

Edited October 2, 2008 by Agie

[Alida]

And finally, finally, Alida you shock me that you children are not vacinnated. I try not to judge other parents but this for me is very sad. Let your children benefit from science. Immunisation has effectively wiped out certain diseases and is THE best option for all children. VERY funny for me that you say that god is will to hurt intentionally if it will serve a purpose (such as your motor bike accident) but then you wont hurt (very shortly) your human children for their own good. There is some incongruency here. Please go and read the thread on free will again. You cannot have free will if your life path is already mapped out. And if you have control (free will)and not god then he cannot be all powerful. SIMPLE despite the BS .

Dear Allison, don't worry about me or my children. I appreciate your concern, though. I have a degree in Science as well, I understand what vaccinations are, do and the side effects thereof. By the word 'hurt', everybody assumed I refer to the mere prick of a needle. Not so. I referred to the side effects.

My girl did contract chicken pox (from a vaccinated child !) last year. She floated through it all, no itching, absolutely no scars, it was all over in a few days. Nothing serious. In two different cases of personal friends of mine, we saw results of vaccination. Both families have three children. The one family vaccinated only the youngest one, he was constantly ill, runny nose, cough, etc. And that a baby of a few months old and of parents who aim to live healthy. At the time the baby had to receive his first booster, the mom was concerned. She decided to stop the vaccination program. The baby now is healthy and happy. Saw him just this morning.

The second family decided against vaccination of their third baby and he is the healthiest, happiest baby of the three by far !

We can always start a separate topic and discuss it there. I'm willing.

Regards,

Alida

[AllisonW]

Alida, i am shocked about the immunization BUT it is your right not to immunize if you wish too. I have even paid for additional vaccinations from my dr and have been very impressed. The whole creche got chicken pox and my son did not as i had paid for chicken pox vac, which the state did not pay for. I want to give my kids, what i perceive to be the best. BUT this is my perception. I wanted to make it clear that i am not judging you as a parent although i cannot in any way make sense of it.

Just wanted to clear that up:) The discussion for me on religion is a philosophical one and i didnt want my comments to be personal!

Have a good evening.

Allison

[Alida]

Thanks Alida, youre obviously not as lazy as I am It is HOT! today 40 degrees outside!

No problem !! I needed something to do to warm me, it's about 10°C outside, windy, cold and rainy here ...

[bluebonnet]

Alida, i am shocked about the immunization BUT it is your right not to immunize if you wish too. I have even paid for additional vaccinations from my dr and have been very impressed. The whole creche got chicken pox and my son did not as i had paid for chicken pox vac, which the state did not pay for. I want to give my kids, what i perceive to be the best. BUT this is my perception. I wanted to make it clear that i am not judging you as a parent although i cannot in any way make sense of it.

Just wanted to clear that up:) The discussion for me on religion is a philosophical one and i didnt want my comments to be personal!

Have a good evening.

Allison

I am sorry that I am back with my immunization issue, but it really bothers me, and I cannot understand how any mom would prefer not to have her kids vaccinated. Chicken pox I understand, it is not life threatening, but what about for example meningitis? (I asked before, but got no reply)

Meningitis is a serious, sometimes fatal infection causing inflammation of the membranes that protect the brain and spinal cord. It is contagious, as the bacteria and viruses that cause meningitis are spread by methods such as coughing, sneezing and kissing. Young children are more susceptible to bacterial meningitis than others, but vaccinations can help prevent children from getting some forms of meningitis.

However, not all children are getting vaccinated. Only 60 percent of African American children under two years of age are being immunized (compared with 84.8 percent of white children).

I would love to read your comment on this Alida. I know of a few deaths in schools in the USA during the time we lived there. It is sad.

[Gerrie-Brissie]

Alida, i am shocked about the immunization BUT it is your right not to immunize if you wish too. I have even paid for additional vaccinations from my dr and have been very impressed. The whole creche got chicken pox and my son did not as i had paid for chicken pox vac, which the state did not pay for. I want to give my kids, what i perceive to be the best. BUT this is my perception. I wanted to make it clear that i am not judging you as a parent although i cannot in any way make sense of it.

Allison,

It is good to see that you say the following words: "I want to give my kids, what i perceive to be the best." and in previous comments of yours you stated that you base your reasoning on scientific principles.

I take it that you do regularly take your children to the church to let them have a look at the "other" side of the debate. A balanced parent will take the steps to allow their children (with the necessary caution if you please) to experience that which is not harmful and to acquire all the knowledge available to them before making a decision on which way/point of view is for them the most acceptable.

In this I reason that if you do not take your children to the place where they could encounter the people who do believe in God and be able to listen to those people stating their side of this debate, you are failing to execute the scientific principles that you claim you live by.

As a parent I did not have a "church" in which the atheist point of view is practiced, but in the schools and in all textbooks this point of view was constantly brought forward and my children were exposed to that teaching perpetually. At a stage they asked me about the evolution theory; I tried to answer them and stated that I reject it as it was never proven beyond doubt as the alternative to the teaching of the Bible but encouraged them to go forth and research it for themselves and to be open minded when these things are taught in for example the school.

I am glad to say that all three of them did just that and came back to me after a time (it was in fact a couple of years) to tell me that they do agree with me that it is not an alternative to what the Bible teaches us about creation and that they definately agree that to call them the decendants of animals is the ultimate degree of disrespect for their dignity and that they are happy to accept creation as the truth.

About the question of whether there is a God or not, I am totally agreeing with what the Bible states in Psalms 14:1 (and the same is repeated in Psalm 53:1) that it is a fool that says in his heart that there is no God.

Good day to you.

[OZSAFFER]

Nope, the BOP rests with whoever accuses the other of having done something in contravention of the law. I can tell you right now that using the legal system to bolster your argument is not going to fly. (But I can make it work for you, for a small fee - surely you know that lawyers are committed to the cause of all god-fearing people out there? )

JDJoburg!

I'll offer you $ 10 000.00 to make it work for me (ZIM that is)

Allison!

I think your comic insert sums it up 100%.

As usual this debate will end - inconclusive!

NOW - back to - "PROPHECIES ABOUT SOUTH AFRICA"

[SueB]

The great advantage of the scientific method is that it is unprejudiced: one does not have to believe a given researcher, one can redo the experiment and determine whether his/her results are true or false. The conclusions will hold irrespective of the state of mind, or the religious persuasion, or the state of consciousness of the investigator and/or the subject of the investigation. Faith, defined as [*] belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence, does not determine whether a scientific theory is adopted or discarded.

A theory is accepted not based on the prestige or convincing powers of the proponent, but on the results obtained through observations and/or experiments which anyone can reproduce: the results obtained using the scientific method are repeatable. In fact, most experiments and observations are repeated many times (certain experiments are not repeated independently but are repeated as parts of other experiments). If the original claims are not verified the origin of such discrepancies is hunted down and exhaustively studied.

Some examples of the human influence on scientific experiments:

"Strange as it may sound, interference can only occur when no one is watching. Once an observer begins to watch the particles going through the openings, the picture changes dramatically: if a particle can be seen going through one opening, then it's clear it didn't go through another. In other words, when under observation, electrons are being "forced" to behave like particles and not like waves. Thus the mere act of observation affects the experimental findings."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/...80227055013.htm

"In experimental science, experimenter's bias is bias towards a result expected by the human experimenter. David Sackett[1], in a useful review of biases in clinical studies, states that biases can occur in any one of seven stages of research: (1) in reading-up on the field, (2) in specifying and selecting the study sample, (3) in executing the experimental manoeuvre (or exposure), (4) in measuring exposures and outcomes, (5) in analyzing the data, (6) in interpreting the analysis, and (7) in publishing the results. The inability of a human being to remain completely objective is the ultimate source of this bias. It occurs more often in sociological and medical sciences, for which reason double blind techniques are often employed to combat the bias. But experimenter's bias can also be found in some physical sciences, where the experimenter rounds off measurements."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimenter%27s_bias

"From the moment a creature becomes aware of God as God and of itself as self, the terrible alternative of choosing God or self for the centre is opened to it." CS Lewis

Cheers

Sue

[AllisonW]

Alida, i am shocked about the immunization BUT it is your right not to immunize if you wish too. I have even paid for additional vaccinations from my dr and have been very impressed. The whole creche got chicken pox and my son did not as i had paid for chicken pox vac, which the state did not pay for. I want to give my kids, what i perceive to be the best. BUT this is my perception. I wanted to make it clear that i am not judging you as a parent although i cannot in any way make sense of it.

Allison,

It is good to see that you say the following words: "I want to give my kids, what i perceive to be the best." and in previous comments of yours you stated that you base your reasoning on scientific principles.

I take it that you do regularly take your children to the church to let them have a look at the "other" side of the debate. A balanced parent will take the steps to allow their children (with the necessary caution if you please) to experience that which is not harmful and to acquire all the knowledge available to them before making a decision on which way/point of view is for them the most acceptable.

In this I reason that if you do not take your children to the place where they could encounter the people who do believe in God and be able to listen to those people stating their side of this debate, you are failing to execute the scientific principles that you claim you live by.

As a parent I did not have a "church" in which the atheist point of view is practiced, but in the schools and in all textbooks this point of view was constantly brought forward and my children were exposed to that teaching perpetually. At a stage they asked me about the evolution theory; I tried to answer them and stated that I reject it as it was never proven beyond doubt as the alternative to the teaching of the Bible but encouraged them to go forth and research it for themselves and to be open minded when these things are taught in for example the school.

I am glad to say that all three of them did just that and came back to me after a time (it was in fact a couple of years) to tell me that they do agree with me that it is not an alternative to what the Bible teaches us about creation and that they definately agree that to call them the decendants of animals is the ultimate degree of disrespect for their dignity and that they are happy to accept creation as the truth.

About the question of whether there is a God or not, I am totally agreeing with what the Bible states in Psalms 14:1 (and the same is repeated in Psalm 53:1) that it is a fool that says in his heart that there is no God.

Good day to you.

Hi Gerrie,

Some responses to your comments:

As a parent i do not take my children to church. This is based upon the fact that i feel tht organised religion is very damaging ( a point that i was trying to avoid saying until you have now put me on the spot). I dont think that organised religion is just the strange other, i think that it teaches exceptionally unproductive thought patterns and emphasises dependancy. Furthermore, the values of patriachy that are endorsed by religion are exceptionally problematic for me. I had to giggle when you claimed that you had "exposed" your children to atheism through their school. That is scarcely exposure and i would bet very good money that no christian parent here would take their child to a satanic coven meeting or even an atheist society meeting to exposure them to the other side. However, if that is your defintion i am covered. My children attend a creche where grace is said before every meal and they learn about the christmas myth of jesus. My son, who is only four himself questioned these issues. I did not force him but simply stated how I and his father percieve the world (Like you did? ) I was so proud of his understanding. He came home the other day and told me that his friend no longer believes in Jesus. I asked him why? He told me that he had explained to him that he wanted to be a scientist and go into outer space one day and that his friend had decided that he also wanted to be a scientist and did not believe in God. Furthermore my son (without any prompting) had asked this child have you ever seen god. Of course the other child could not answer. What is the point of this story - the logic is so simple that even a four year old can get it!

Bear in mind that i have always made a point to highlight to my son to respect other people's views. The main reason for this is that i dont want him exposed to any bullying from adults who seem to feel that small children are a blank canvas for their poor views. In years to come i believe that he will be in a position to hold his own and i will encourage him to challenge others. We have bought extensive books on science, cells, the big bang etc and read them to the children from young. Teachers at his montessori school have commented on his excellent grasp of concepts and maths. I do believe that this is do to the good foundation of logic thought that we have laid out. ( sorry, like all parents i am very proud! LOL)

Perhaps you could share with your children some of the scientific information that has been shared on this thread. I am sure this will assist them.

Have a good day.

Allison

Edited October 3, 2008 by AllisonW

[AllisonW]

Sue B,

Scientists accept the influence of human beings upon their scientific method. Indeed all valid sound scientific experiments deal with this through a number of methods.

I quote: While performing experiments, Scientists may have a preference for one outcome over another, and it is important that this tendency does not bias their interpretation.[7][8] A strict following of the scientific method attempts to minimize the influence of a scientist's bias on the outcome of an experiment. This can be achieved by correct experimental design, and a thorough peer review of the experimental results as well as conclusions of a study.[9][10] Once the experiment results are announced or published, an important cross-check can be the need to validate the results by an independent party.[11]

(Wiki) - Science)

How do scientists do this:

* scientific method is not depedant upon one process - observations are made, a model is generated and then a hpothesis is set up. This is then tested.

* Scientific method requires repeatability - which means that anyone who carries out this experiment should get the same result.

* Scientific method insists upon the proposer being able to defend his view with hard evidence so others - his peers - get to challenge him.

* Experimental design allows us to reduce researcher bias through for example the blind experiment model.

so your point while noted does not in any way reduce the value of the scientiifc model. Indeed scientists have long recognised this and sought to deal with it.

Thanks

Allison

[Stepchook]

Furthermore my son (without any prompting) had asked this child have you ever seen god. Of course the other child could not answer. What is the point of this story - the logic is so simple that even a four year old can get it!

If you go by that logic, then it would be fine to touch two electrical wires because - by your logic - you can't see the electicity, so therefore it doesn't exist!

[Arleneg75]

I take it that you do regularly take your children to the church to let them have a look at the "other" side of the debate. A balanced parent will take the steps to allow their children (with the necessary caution if you please) to experience that which is not harmful and to acquire all the knowledge available to them before making a decision on which way/point of view is for them the most acceptable.

Just curious to know how many christians here take their kids to the mosque, temple or synagogue to expose them to all the knowledge available?

I'm Catholic and the only other religion my children are exposed to is Hinduism because their dads family are Hindu. But even then, they don't really know much about it. But I will certainly answer any question they have about it when they are old enough.

Every parent raises their children the best way they know how and if you are Christian, it is natural to raise your kids with Christian values. Same goes for whatever your beliefs are. I really don't want to get involved in this debate. Just had to comment on that statement.

[SueB]

Changed my mind, sorry.

Edited October 3, 2008 by SueB

[AllisonW]

If you go by that logic, then it would be fine to touch two electrical wires because - by your logic - you can't see the electicity, so therefore it doesn't exist!

Pygmalion your point is taken. This would not be something that i would say to a christian. I think that i have already demonstrated arguments that are far sounder. This was a quote from my four year son and i therefore expect it to be slightly flawed in terms of conceptual thoughts. It was used to demonstrate that even on his very limited level he understood that this "god" story didnt quite make sense to him. The point is that once you remove the pressure to believe something just because you should, the information remaining is very weak. Dont worry we are still working on him!

Allison

[Emille]

I have started a topic Atheism/evolution versus Christianity, Argue your case here

Please use that forum to discuss the topic relating to atheism/evolution versus Christianity - and NOT this one on prophecies about South Africa or any other forum on Christian matters.

This forum is for comments on the original post regarding the prophecy.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Emille

[AllisonW]

Emille,

Please dont take this the wrong way but i dont think that you have the ability to manage where people post. You were not the original poster for this topic and certainly not one of the hosts, so i will conitnue to post on any thread that i see fit to. I am sure that you meant it in a positive way, but i think the instruction manner of your previous post may not go down well with all. The hosts were part of the discussion and were certainly aware of it so i am not aware that i or any of the others have broken any forum rules.

On the forum, as in life it is difficult to compartmentalise issues as can be seen on other threads. Besides, you have missed the boat by a couple of days, this debate (and i want to highlight not an argument) has largely run its course already.

So please dont try to manage other forumites.

Have a good day.

Allison

[Maplasies]

thanks Emille, I think all these posts aren't just about the topic/debating, but also very much about winding people up and getting attention. Thanks for the new topic, although I can't see that anybody without a 'spiritual life' (?) should come and post here.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Agie

[Red]

Emille,

Please dont take this the wrong way but i dont think that you have the ability to manage where people post. You were not the original poster for this topic and certainly not one of the hosts, so i will conitnue to post on any thread that i see fit to.

Agreed.

I have enjoyed reading the entire thread, and if it is 'moved' people won't fully grasp the debate at hand.

The only place I can ever see this thread moving to, is the cooler and that would be the hosts decision, let's leave it for them to decide.

[Eva]

Well the discussion has certainly gone !!

[KirstyP]

Hi guys! Wow this is quite a debate.

All I want to add is this: I am a born again Christian who was saved from a life of grief and despair because God loved me and did not forsake me. Since that day I have experienced many blessings and have been blessed to be a blessing for Him. I am not naive and I know that hardtimes will come my way (afterall his own son died on cross - is there a harder experience Jesus could have endured?) but I believe that with God's grace I will get through these too.

I am not an expert on theology but I have a questioning mind and I am learning about the greatness of His love everyday. For me - I never knew peace, true inner peace, until I accepted God into my life. For those of you who do not believe in God do you deny me this peace? Can you not just be happy for me, and those like me, who are happy in our faith?

I do not agree with your lack of faith, but it is your choice, you are free to make it and if you are at peace with your choice and are happy then I accept that. Can you say the same?

Christians believe one thing, non-christians another. At the end of the day neither opinion or belief can be totally discounted because it is in part based on a little faith and as long as someone as faith the belief exists. Science cannot discount Creationism totally. My question is why would it want to if Christians are happy and at peace? Surely to each his own?

My 2 cents worth

[Cramer]

Wantbetter, take a look at the above link, thanks Cramers!

Please lets not start on Naas Botha too!!!!!

Getting Back to Naas, aaah Just Kidding!

[LIGGIE]

For me - I never knew peace, true inner peace, until I accepted God into my life. For those of you who do not believe in God do you deny me this peace? Can you not just be happy for me, and those like me, who are happy in our faith?

I do not agree with your lack of faith, but it is your choice, you are free to make it and if you are at peace with your choice and are happy then I accept that. Can you say the same?

Ditto Thank you KirstyP

I've never been blessed more in my life than ever since I accepted God as part of my daily life . . . !

IT IS GREAT!!

HE IS GREAT AND ALLMIGHTY!!!

Regards

LIGGIE