Australian Children/Youth

[Guest Seoul Sister]

Hi everyone,

I am back on my Honesty and Balance soapbox, but have another bee in my bonnet…

Two very sweet, dear friends of mine from this forum have in the past three days discussed the topic of Australia Youth/Children with me. From what I have heard I am seriously concerned... S-E-R-I-O-U-S-L-Y !!! I have spent a great deal of time and effort whipping up my children into the fabulous, well-mannered, educated specimens that they are currently and I am not about to have them ruined. Sharksfan was talking about the monster-delinquents of the UK and I have experienced the same phenomenon in Holland. Respect, honesty, hard-work, loyalty, good manners, being polite, etc are all basics to me, and things that I expect from my children. But from what I understand the average Australian child is 7 light years removed from these unfamiliar concepts...

I had no idea that many of the children in Australia were actually close cousins to British children (in behaviour and attitude). How bad is the situation and how are you combating it, if at all possible. Please don't give me any of those "norms and values should be taught at home" speeches, as I am already teaching my children norms, values and good Christian ethics at home. Currently I have the support and backing of a school, church and society that share my ideas, norms and values to a large extent and it has been a PLEASURE, compared to Holland where it was a constant up-hill battle.

I would love to hear your experiences on this. Have you experienced problems with your children, Ozzie friends of your children ? Do you feel you have the support of the school and society ? Do you send your kids off to school every day only to spend the better hours of evenings and weekends trying to undo most of the damage ? Did putting your children in a Christian or Private School make a difference in getting some support... I am surprised that this issue has never been raised before, as it seems like a really big deal to me. Might even be a show-stopper !!!!

I am looking forward to hearing from you. *Thanks in advance *

Love

Disillusioned Sista

[Annette]

Sista, I have just spent 7 years in the UK among the monster delinquents and my children made lovely friends there and thankfully turned out totally undamaged and richer for the experience. Here, again they have made friends with a bunch of lovely kids who share their values and background. I know it can sometimes go wrong, and that we are lucky. We thank God for that every day, but sorry to have to say this, I know you don't want to hear it - values really are taught at home and you'd be surprised at how resilient the right armour can make kids If you feel you need the backing of a school to achieve this, by all means send the kids to a special Christian school, although sadly, I have found many so-called "Church schools" to use this merely as an excuse for exclusivity and avoiding having to deal with "the rabble". I would rather have my children be exposed to the whole of society and learn how to deal with all kinds of people and circumstances - but that is my personal opinion and choice. There are many active churches and plenty of lovely genuine Christian people here - we have had no problem finding a spiritual home at all. As for finding a society that shares your norms and values - you won't find it here or most other free societies. People are free here to think and believe what they want - we just have to adapt to that and get out of our little cocoon. It makes one re-assess your beliefs and I have found it a much richer experience being a person with strong values and a Christian to boot in a society which often questions this - it makes one stand out and I love it! It forces us to get out of our comfort zone and stand up for what we believe in - it means so much more when everyone else does not think the same way. My children, contrary to what a lot of people believe about kids, actually like being "different".

I have found the Aussie kids lightyears removed from the general "average" kid in the UK, but I have only experienced life in Adelaide - things might be different in other. I have found the average kid I deal with to have manners (not brilliant, but that's true of most SA kids now as well - sign of the times and MTV!), respect, loyalty and honesty. They are hugely friendly and tend to stay "kids" definitely much longer than their counterparts in the UK ...

Nothing will ever come close to anything remotely like South Africa, it's a very strange and very abnormal society ....

Just my two pennies worth ... and not meant to be taken personally at all. I'll get off my soapbox now and hand it over to the next person ...

[Dreamcatcher]

Dear Seoul Sister,

I cannot even try and say that I know it all, or how it is elsewhere. I can only tell you things out of my own experience, and point of view. This is a delicate subject, and I will try and put it across as tactful as I can.

My sister has been in Sydney for the past 5 years, they moved there when the kids were only 5, 7 and 12. She has been back to SA almost every year, and her children seemed about the same to me every year. They were more relaxed, and easy going, but they still had the same good manners and respectful attitude. I have to add that my sister and her late husband have always been very strict.

From my own experience, in the past few months, the following: my eldest son (13) sometimes comments on the way that some children speak to the teachers and that the behaviour of some kids are sometimes shocking. It is not that different from SA, but that is a story for another time...

The children here are much more relaxed about life, and this sometimes comes across as disrespect. We have met a few kids that I have tried to keep our children away from, also nothing new. Some children that you see on the streets look really shabby, and they do stupid things.

My other children have been over to friends' houses, and I usually make a point of going there myself, just to have a look around. (Ask to use their bathroom! ) My kids are in government schools, and I have no problem there. The schools are VERY supportive, and they are quick to phone and tell you that something is wrong, in schoolwork or behaviour. Children with difficulties get a lot of support. I find the teachers here are positive, and still believe that they are there to make a difference, not just teach to make money. Yes, I have "shopped" around for schools, and yes, I did put my younger kids in the school that was rated as the "best" by most of the locals that I spoke to.

You hear a lot of complaints about children and their behaviour, and a lot of it is true. What tips the scales is the fact that schools are VERY vigilant about any problems, and most problems get addressed. That is why you hear about it. It is not just swept under the carpet, as is done in SA schools. There are several government programs attempting to help children from broken or dysfunctional families, whereas in SA, they just don't have that kind of resources, and children are left to fend for themselves. I know, I used to deal with this every day.

So what is my point? Yes, there are problems with the youth, as everywhere else. The government is doing something about it, unlike everywhere else. My children are happy, and we do not experience any problems significantly different from what we were used to. My children's Aussie friends are well behaved, and friendly. I do sometimes find them a bit forward for my liking, but they are not rude.

The churches also have the most amazing youth programs to support you in your quest for balanced children. There are several support systems available, usually at low, or no cost. If you need it, is there for you to use. That is YOUR choice.

Greetings,

Dreamy

[Ajay]

Hey SS,

Good post - it is something that I often hear being spoken about and certainly something that we talk about amongst our friends here as well.

Here's my take on it - the school system here seems to focus on education / learning / socialising, but they seem to allow the kids the freedom to express themselves as well. Now - how they choose to express themselves differs vastly, and I think a lot of that is influenced by other factors as well. The most noticeable difference that I can see in everyday kids is their physical appearance. Boys can have their hair as long as they like, girls can wear full make-up (and, in fact, I've seen boys sporting eyeliner as well ), shirts are not supposed to be tucked in - a whole myriad of things that mean that the kids look SLOPPY - in a big way! However, my experience has been that this is merely outward appearance, and often, kids that look as though they have spent the night at the pub before dragging themselves to school are paradoxically very polite and friendly . There are obviously exceptions and I'm not saying that they are all Stepford Children but for the most part, I would rate them as a good bunch. South Africa has the edge on appearance though - no question. I do have to say that this is strictly a High School phenomenon - in primary school, the uniform is still sacrosanct!

In terms of the teachers - in High School, the kids are treated as young adults and expected to be responsible. Primary school is much easier on the kids here, with less focus on learning facts and more focus on education and the basics. My youngest's teacher is struggling with him and finds him to be a handful - he is used to being kept so busy that he doesn't have time to have fun and as a result, he's having a little too much fun for her liking We're dealing with that, and she keeps us in the loop regarding his progress.

So, in summary, if you were to drive around your neighbourhood after school had been let out, you would be horrified at the outward apprearance of the teenagers. Then, when you walk into the local Wolworths to do your shopping and are served by the same gothic creature that you spotted 15 minutes ago dragging his bag behind him, you would be greeted by a friendly, smiling face - black eyeliner and all

Hope this helps!

Love

Ajay

[Guest Jules]

Hi SS and others

Time to add my two cents worth here (and it ain't gonna be pretty ). It is such a difficult topic to reply objectively to but I will try my best ...

The first experience we had of Ozzie kids/youth was on our second day here, a Saturday morning shopping trip to buy stationery for our kids to start school on the Monday. The thing that struck me the most was that there was a general lack of respect for the goods in the shops. I noticed a lot of kids pick something up to look at, decide that it's not for them and then literally just drop it wherever they happen to be standing . Big W started to resemble a war zone as the morning wore on and for me it was not a great first impression.

The kids started school (state/public school, grade 2 and 6) on the Monday. Everything that has been said so far regarding the teachers I agree with so I won't repeat it, they really do go the extra mile and I have yet to meet a bad one. Not so the kids. Our kids' experiences over the few months culminated in us putting them in private school. These included rudeness and disprespect towards the teachers, damage to school property, daily disruption of the class routine and swearing and abuse towards the teachers. Other kids' behaviour would dominate our conversations at home and really started to take it's toll on all aspects of our kids' lives. It was a very difficult time for us and we wondered if we had made the right decision in coming here. Make no mistake, there were a lot of good kids there too, probably just as shocked as ours by the behaviour going on around them.

Things have improved greatly for them now that they are in a private school and they are a lot happier. The general behaviour and attitude of the other children is more in line with what they were used to and with how we expect our kids to behave. The discipline seems to actually have an effect on the kids, manners and respect are taught and expected, the uniform policy is more strictly enforced and the teachers can focus more on actually teaching rather than trying to get things under control in the classroom. We haven't looked back and it was the best decision we made Again I have to stress that this is my personal experience and opinion based on one state school and from what I have heard about other schools from other people.

As far as older kids are concerned, what Ajay says is true, they do look sloppy but are friendly enough. Having gone through a rebellious phase in my teens too I am all too aware that physical appearance does not change who you are inside so that doesn't concern me too much. For most it is just a phase and they soon grow out of it.

However, to get back to my first comment about the lack of respect for property, this for me is the biggie. I find it very similar to the UK, having grown up there. Graffiti is everywhere. Here in Brisbane they have started using local artists to paint on walls and electric boxes , mostly Australian landscapes or aboriginal style art, to try and deter vandalism and graffiti. For some strange reason it actually seems to work, most painted walls won't be touched but just down the street you will see a plain wall that has been covered in graffiti. Vandalism is a problem. My hubby works for a land developer and they experience vandalism on a fairly regular basis, both to the materials lying around the building site and the machinery they use. We have had our own house that the buiders have just about finished building vandalised over the weekend, windows smashed and doors ripped off, thankfully there was no structural damage. All of these things are done by kids/teenagers. There seems to be a general lack of respect for other peoples property or workmanship and this is my biggest gripe with the youth here.

SS I hope this has answered some of your questions. On a positive note I have to say that the morals, values and manners that you teach your children at home will most definitely stand them in good stead. I have found that my kids tend to naturally seek out friends with the same values as themselves (this could well change when they become teenagers ) and for the most part I am very happy with their choices. For us, putting them into an environment that minimises contact with children who may not have been brought up with those values and whos' behaviour is not acceptable to us has been a positive step.

Hope this helps !

Love

Julie

Edited June 22, 2006 by Jules

[vaalie]

After living in different areas in South Africa then the UK for 12 years - now in Adelaide I must say generally speaking I have never come across such well balanced, well mannered children as here in the outskirts of Adelaide.

[Riekie]

One thing which really struck me when we came to Oz was the naughty children! They must be the tantrum kings of the universe - I have NEVER seen such naughty kids in my life! (Don't know if you watch Super-nanny - but those kids might just as well have been Aussie kids!)

With my kids being much older when we got here, I knew their upbringing would stick and that they would not copy the bad behaviour of the Aussie kids, and so far, they have only done me proud - in fact, I have been complimented a zillion times on my kids!

I think, in the case of the Aussies, it is very much an inability to parent their children. If you see the number of babies screaming at the top of their lungs for literally hours on end while mum carries on with her shopping - completely ignoring the baby - I can understand that they'd grow into kids which are simply allowed to throw tantrums, bite, kick and swear at their parents! It is so upsetting to go shopping and see all these kids so unhappy & frustrated, and mum just couldn't give a damn!

I was at a birthday party last weekend - ALL South Africans - and quite a number of children ranging from a few months to teenagers - most of the little ones born in Australia. Not one tantrum. Not one kid crying for anything. No fighting, nagging, or wrecking the place. They were all just "normal" kids having a good time. Which just proves my point: discipline begins (and remains) at home. If your kids start acting out in Aus, it is because you allow them to.

My golden rule: NEVER ALLOW SOMETHING ONCE IF YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO ALLOW IT ALWAYS!! Don't think you'll teach them how to behave when they get older if you allow them to misbehave now (and it works the other way around too: if you teach your kids the good solid basics when they're tiny tots, they'll make you proud when they're teenagers). Consistency is the key and respect the base. The first time your kid comes home from school with any unacceptable behaviour they got from their friends, you draw the line right there and then - don't think it's cute and allow it, 'cause you'll regret it! Don't make up for guilty feelings (for placing them in a situation where they have to adapt to their new country, miss their friends etc) by turning a blind eye at the first signs of unacceptable behaviour.

This is my take on the situation and so far my approach has been fool proof - we are a very close family, my kids are just amazing and I'm very proud of them - no regrets.

As far as the schools go: I have only experienced them to be very positive towards teaching kids the good values and basics at school. Kids acting out are frowned upon and their behaviour addressed. If their behaviour continues, the parents are called in to address the problem. The school works very closely with the parents to identify and solve behavioural problems. They always act on any concern a parent may have about their own (or other) children and will support you in whatever it is you feel needs attention. Most schools have merit systems in which you can earn or loose merits (and with that privileges). I would not blame the school system at all for the Aussie kids being so misbehaved and disrespectful. (And by saying that, I am generalizing, as my daughter's friends are really lovely kids and so are many others!)

I have a friend who is a school psychologist (in Aus) and working with high school kids at various schools. She told me that the kids acting out and misbehaving are the kids who do not come from loving homes where they learn the basic life skills in a loving, caring environment. 99% of kids misbehaving are doing so as a result of some or another "problem" at home. It could be abuse, neglect, substance abuse, absent parents, financial problems, divorced families etc. The kids who end up on night time television because they stabbed someone at a station are from certain areas which are generally known for their social problems and undesired home situations. You do have the "bad" kids in "good" areas too but your kid might not even come across them at all.

SS, I don't think you should be too concerned about your kids. Remember, you call the shots and as long as you stay in control you can't go wrong! You love your kids - its obvious - and they look like well balanced, lovely, happy, carefree kids. You won't loose that if you don't loose control. Lots of love and guidance is all it takes.

[Guest Seoul Sister]

Hi everyone,

Thank so much for your valued input and honest responses. I realize this thread is a really tough one to contribute to and appreciate all the thought and effort you have put into answering in such detail and with such great examples. I have really enjoyed seeing how your individual styles of parenting shimmer through your observations of the local children/schooling/societal situations. Knowing what to expect and preparing myself for it is a luxury which I have from being part of this forum and I have all of you to thank for that.

Well done to all of you for the fabulous job you have done with raising your children !

Knowing what I do now, I am growing more and more negative towards my pending move and life Down Under. This will probably shock most of you, as Saffers seem to embrace their new lives in Australia and grab on with both hands for all they are worth.

Thanks again.

Love from Korea

SS

Edited June 22, 2006 by Seoul Sister

[Dreamcatcher]

Dear SS,

I am sorry to hear that you are growing negative. But that is normal too. I think all of us go through a stage in our planning where we just can't see the positive side of our decisions anymore.

What is troubling you at the moment, is a great big issue. Probably the biggest of them all, because for almost everyone here, we did it for our children. There are concerns in the behaviour of the children, and the behaviour is not much different from children in SA. Kids are being brought up more "liberal" which is something that us "boere" cannot, and will not accept.

If we are going to get paranoid about this, there will never be a place good enough for us. I remember a time in my life when I could not sleep at night. I was constantly planning escape routes and making emergency plans in case of fire or burglary. This got so bad, that I saw a threat in everything, and did not sleep for weeks. It got to a point where I had to sit down and have a very solemn talk to myself. I had to convince myself that I AM a good mother, and that I WILL do the right thing when something happens. I had to use this exercise again recently. Mothers' instinct is a great thing, and if you add to that a good dose of common sense, heaps of prayer, and a mountain of faith, you will make the right choice. As Riekie said, you should not be so worried about your children. (Look who's talking ) You are a sensible person, and things will work out well for you, whichever way you go.

We had our period of indecision, and sometimes I even thought to just stay in SA, but I'm so glad that we did not. We are happy here, and I have so much more time to spend with my children. In SA, I had to rely on the school and the church to help me raise my kids. Here, I have a greater part in that wonderful experience. That makes everything worthwhile.

Thinking of you....

Greetings,

Dreamy

[Annette]

I have really enjoyed seeing how your individual styles of parenting shimmer through your observations of the local children/schooling/societal situations.

So, the real motivation behind your original post show itself!

Joking, of course, but on a more serious note - don't beat yourself up about having negative feelings - I suspect what you are experiencing is probably more apprehension than true negativity. Apprehension is completely normal and human and all a part of the process. Negativity on the other hand can be a very destructive mindset which is difficult to get rid off. From what I've seen of your posts, SS, I don't think negative comes into the picture at all

[Queensland Girl]

Dear SS

I understand 100% where you are coming from.

Ozzie parents have been disempowered COMPLETELY!

Their children are taught from child care that if their parent so much as lifts a hand-that is abuse and they must immediatly come tell the teacher.

The child here has more power than the parent and this is due to stupid political correctness gone haywire.

This is a worldwide phenomena found in most western countries I hear.( Not the case in Asia I hear)

My experiences though have been VERY similar to those of Jules although I have never had my children in a state school.-but I hear about them from my kids.

The motto of our little school is Imagine,Listen, Respect and it shows.

They have VERY strict uniform policy and we sign an undertaking as parents to assist in this. my daughter of 16 wears no make-up to school and has to wear her hair away from her face.Our children also sign that they will adhere to the behaviour policy.

My sons wear shirt and tie daily.

My elder son though wears his pants low which irritates me no end.

SS-this is probably the most important thing I am going to write today.

My children WANT to be at this school-they might hate school per se-but they want to be in a private school as they know that at some of the state schools they will NOT get ahead.

They know if you are expelled from a Private School in Australia they will not be accepted into another private school.

You can be expelled VERY easily as the waiting lists are long.

eg: boy of 15 expelled yesterday for bringing pornography magazine to school.

Two boys expelled last month for taking two drinks from canteen fridge and not paying.

If you are found with alcohol,cigarettes,or drugs on your person it is immediate expulsion.

A boy was almost expelled because he showed a brown eye(mooned) at his mates in the boys locker room.

And remember -soort soek soort- EVERY child brought home I have loved. I have also made friends with their parents. We work as a team and have a phone around when we are told of eg of a party.

On weekends we have a problem with "open parties"-or you have a party and some mate tells his mate on MSN and half the Gold Coast teenagers pitch up. Binge drinking is an issue- although drugs are around the children who use them are seen as losers.Once they start clubbing (over 18 ecstacy seems to be the problem drug)

The children also seem to be more sexual(or much more relaxed about sex than we were)

Academics:60-70% of kids from private schools go to Uni-in some private schools it is up to 90%

In the public schools in our area it is 40-50% go to Uni. They are also big on more practical courses.

So what am I saying?Choose the right school. I do NOT want to disparage the public schooling system as I have heard of remarkable public schools, but in our area it would NOT be a good option for our kids.

[hannesb]

The Australian situation sounds very similar to the bad behaviour we've experienced here in Canada - no respect for adults (or property), a sense of self-entitlement, rude and obnoxious behaviour, etc.

I do think it's a bit worse over here, though...For example, smoking is allowed on school property (in fact, it's seen as a basic human right by parents!!), kids are allowed to wear anything they want to school, make-up, jewelry, pyjamas, see-through clothes, etc.. Then there are the behavioural problems...In some schools here there are now a permanent police presence, because school authorities are basically powerless to address these issues.

Immigrant childeren (from the far east, africa etc) seem to be the best-behaved here. I don't know, maybe South Africa was not only in a political but also in a cultural time-warp all these years...Bad behaviour amongst western childeren seem to be the norm, and accepted by society - "after all," we're told, "the poor little lambs are just expressing their individuality"!

[DesertDaisy]

Bad behaviour at schools is just as common in SA. My old highschool has recently had to install security cameras in the classrooms as one of the teachers was attacked by a pupil during class. The teacher was powerless to do anything in retaliation. And this is in a good, solidly middleclass area in a good part of the West Rand in a good school.

When my eldest niece was just 10, she was slashed at by a fellow pupil in her class with a razor blade. Fortunately my niece was not injured. Again, this was in a good school, in an upmarket area of the Northern Suburbs of Joburg - wealthy, well-educated etc etc.

There is a drug problem at a primary school in an upmarket area of the West Rand as well. A PRIMARY SCHOOL. And a wealthy, parent-subsidised school.

The discipline problem stems not from the schools, but from the families.

No matter WHERE you live in the world, you will get children with attitude and behavioural problems. It has little to do with location, but all to do with family life.

[Guest Seoul Sister]

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for your detailed and informative responses, both on the forum and by PM. Thanks also very much for all of the encouragement and kind words to cheer me up. Of course they worked !! I feel clued-up enough on the challenge now, to have an idea of what to expect and make the best choices for my boys. Hehehehe, Annette, ja, lekker uitgevang ne !! It was actually an added bonus I didn't think of, but it was amazing how you could see what the philosophy is behind the actions.

There are clearly a few of you who share my ideas on parenting and I appreciate your input and practical advice, as I think I now have a plan of action that will work. Each and every one of you made some very valid points, and I am sure you have helped many parents out there. QLD Girl, you hit the nail on the head with Soort soek soort. That is exactly what I found here in Korea and your situation sounds the same as mine, with most of the parents ending up being friends. We even have a Sunshine Class coffee morning every Tuesday where we all get together for the mother of all chats. It's fabulous and amazing how much we have in common (except for our kids sharing a class) even tho' we are from 7 different countries. This is what made me realize that what I want for my kids isn't so exclusively Saffer after all !!

Thanks everyone, you ROCK !! I am really lucky to have all of the support and kind help I have had from all of you ! I will write another piece once I have my kids enrolled at a school in Oz, to tell you what I have found and how things are going... Might be interesting for those still waiting to get to Oz, to know whether my plan of action succeeded.

Love and warm sunshine greetings from Korea

Seoul Sister

[fatcat]

Hi

Canadian schools were mentioned in a previous posting and I feel that I need to add to that just in case Saffers reading this forum end up with a poor image of Canadian schools. Our high school is very strict eg: no sleevless t-shirts, no part of stomach or back showing, no ripped jeans etc etc and smoking is most definately not allowed. I initially thought the respect for teachers was lacking but I realised that it is not, teachers treat the pupils ( I'm talking about high school) like adults and value their opinions - teachers word is not law.

So to wrap it up - it does not matter whether we are in SA. Aus or Canada we are going to hear stories about good schools and bad schools - choose wisely for your children.

[Riekie]

And remember -soort soek soort- EVERY child brought home I have loved.

This is SO true!! The kids my daughter have as friends are really lovely, well-balanced, well-behaved kids!!

[jonathanb]

Hi

What most people forget when comparing schools in SA and schools elsewhere is that they compare "ALL" the schools in the other country with "ADVANTAGED" schools here. To be fair, you need to compare "ALL" our schools here as well.

When you do that, then you start to see that the SA schools system is really in a poor shape. You must also then compare the all the kids here with all the kids there, then you will see that most of those kids over there are really pretty tame compared to the kids here.

[ExASP]

I read all the posts with interest and my two cents worth is similar to everyone here. We have a few public primary schools two public high schools and about four or so private schools that is from transition to year twelve.

The teachers here have complimented me plenty of times on my kids good manners and the fact that they dont disrupt lessons, vandalize school property and respect other kids and their elders.

I dont have angels but alot of the kids here come from broken homes and single parent families. As in the mother has never been married and has 5 kids from 3 diferent fathers and so on.

I must say that my children has so far managed to befriend Ozzie kids that have the same level of manners and morals.

(I do agree on the bathroom issue hahahah)

Uniform is encouraged and in private schools it is compulsory. Bullying is a serious issue and the give immidiate attention to it. I must say that I think they have a more open approach to parent involvment and I can see the teacher any time I want. I also have noticed that the teachers here are willing to go the extra mile if they see a child is willing to learn.

I would say that I have seen about half and half of rude and well behaved kids here.

[Queensland Girl]

Hi

What most people forget when comparing schools in SA and schools elsewhere is that they compare "ALL" the schools in the other country with "ADVANTAGED" schools here. To be fair, you need to compare "ALL" our schools here as well.

When you do that, then you start to see that the SA schools system is really in a poor shape. You must also then compare the all the kids here with all the kids there, then you will see that most of those kids over there are really pretty tame compared to the kids here.

Very true. We were not really comparing apples with apples.

[jonathanb]

Hi everyone

The first post mentioned the Aus kids as being delinquents like the British kids. We have just had 2 16yr old British boys from a visiting rugby team stay with us and what a pleasure. They were so much more relaxed than the SA kids, very well mannered and polite. In fact the whole team of 45 were a pleasure to spend time with. The only trouble was when SA kids started it.

Cheers

Edited August 4, 2006 by jonathanb

[Annette]

Hi everyone

The first post mentioned the Aus kids as being delinquents like the British kids. We have just had 2 16yr old British boys from a visiting rugby team stay with us and what a pleasure. They were so much more relaxed than the SA kids, very well mannered and polite. In fact the whole team of 45 were a pleasure to spend time with. The only trouble was when SA kids started it.

Cheers

..... and I'm assuming you're forgetting to mention that they were from a private school?

[jonathanb]

..... and I'm assuming you're forgetting to mention that they were from a private school?

No actually they were from a normal public school just outside Leeds.

Remember that most people (white people) compare our bad "white" schools and kids with all the kids and schools in other countries. People here in SA seem to forget that it is 11 yrs down the road and to do a comparison, you need to compare the worst schools over there with the worst schools here and that means the bad schools in areas like KwaMashu, Soweto, Tembisa etc. Doing a comparison like that, I would much rather send my kids to the worst school in the worst area of almost any first world country than one of those schools.

The same goes for kids behaviour. Just look at the number of kids in SA in jail for murder, rape, theft etc compared to elsewhere then tell me who has naughty kids.

[Karen]

I have to agree with Fatcat's sentiments totally.

I am an ex SA high school teacher who works in a large public secondary school in the suburbs of the Greater Toronto Area. I have been doing so for 13 years now.

Now, most of you would be shocked and horrified if you saw the kids I work with - they can wear mostly anything, except indecent clothing and t- shirts with obscenities etc. There are kids from a myriad of countries, so some students wear hajibs or traditional clothing etc. It is all accepted and well tolerated. The clothing and make - up seem to make no difference to the learning process. I had one girl with multiple piercings, blue hair and very different fashion sense, and she was one of the best students I have ever worked with- smart and no trouble at all to anyone. She sure taught me the lesson of never judging a book by its cover!

My school has almost 2,000 students and they come from all walks of life. We have kids in wheelchairs, autistic kids, kids with emotional problems in alternative programs, minimal intellectual dysfunctional kids, brilliant students and those who have learning and other disabilities, and they all co- exist peacefully and with great respect for one another.

Sure, we have problems with drugs and other deviant behaviour, but for the most part, we have wonderful students who work hard and are great to work with. I brought my own two kids up in this free system and I wish I could have been through it too. It is so much better to have teens be able to express themselves at this age and then get over it and go on to become upright young adults and good citizens.

Good values, morals and religion, as far as I am concerned, are all the job of the parent, not the school or even the teacher.

[Tracy]

This has been SUCH a good read for me!

As a high school teacher AND as a parent - I've posted sometihng today in which I have touched on this whole topic and I am re-assured by everything I've read. I've already experienced the "bad things" written about here in my school!

Yes, I'm concerned about my daughter but I don't think she is as concerned as I am! She's quite happy! The grounding in discipline she has from her upbringing in SA will carry her through all the nonsense here. And yes, it happens all over the world. Kids inherently know what is right and wrong and whether they can push the boundaries.

I often think we have all lived a "sheltered" life in SA or that we just bury our heads in the sand?

So many positive things have come out of this thread.

One thing I TOTALLY agree with is that parents are completely to blame ar praise for their children's behaviour.

All our kids will be just fine as long as they have boundaries, that we speak to them and that they know we love them.

Tracy

[Dax]

What Karen said about schools in Toronto is in broad sense applicable to Schools In Adelaide as well.

The one difference is that most primary and secondary state schools have uniform policies that they enforce. It would be against Aussie Privacy laws, otherwise I would have liked to post the recent photo-day picture of my Year 5/6 crowd and I. OK, some kids were wearing different versions of the school uniform, e.g. slacks in lieu of skirts and vice versa, or neatly tailored jeans. Kids who are immigrants from the UK complain bitterly about the uniform thingy, but that’s the “law” at our school.

Also, we have our moments with some bad apples, and they can REALLY test your patience and resilience. Due to them, there are days when you feel sort of at the end of your tether. However, there are systems and procedures that we use to deal with them and both school management and the Educator’s Union support us.

For some people from RSA (and with me at first it was not different), due to a conservative background or coming from a sheltered type of family or background, their first contact with the education system of a Western First World country, can be quite a culture shock. In these societies, consumerism and the mass media have influenced values and mindsets for a few decades now – something with which RSA is only catching up since recent times.

The only advice I can give in this regard if you are unsure or feel out of your depth is to try and learn and adapt as soon as possible. Don’t be scared to ask questions, read up as much as you can. Especially if you plan to teach in the South Australian system, try to work-shadow experienced teachers or try to meet up with people like me and Karen (remember that Karen is in Toronto of course). Whenever possible I would be more that willing to have a prospective teacher observing in my classroom in order to get their heads around Aussie aspects of teaching.

Cheers,

Dax

PS: Dagse Karen! Goed om jou hier op saaustralia te sien.

Tracy,

You have a point, if we lay our kids' foundations right, they should be allright anywhere. All of the best there in The Alice!