visas & employment agencies

[antzy]

Hi all,

I'm trying to get some advice on what the best way is to relocate to Oz...i havent quite made up my mind where in Oz(possibly Sydney/Brisbane)....i need to know a few things:

I'm a single parent, 30-something (more like almost-40!)...radiographer and i'm not keen on doing the sponsorship thing....i believe one forfeits quite a bit in terms of state benefits.

I dont mind waiting a few months for visas and i dont mind spending a "bit" of money on getting there. Other than PR, does anyone know how the Skilled Independant Visa works? OR any other suggestions.

I'm getting alot of pressure from the employment agencies to find me a job...sponsored...but I feel that I could negotiate better salaries if the employer didn't have to pay commission and/or not be committed to a particular work set-up should i be unhappy where i am placed.

The decision making is quite a daunting task in itself. Anyone with advice or suggestions?

antz

[Nilo]

Hi Antzy

I admire your guts! Single parent and prepared to make the BOG move! Well done.

I would advise to find a job on a 457, you arive with work in hand and you will be earning $$$$$!

Before you come have all your documentation ready to apply for your PR Skilled Independant Visa. Once you'r here apply immediately! Do your IELTS here (they are not as full as in SA)

Bite the bullet at the Sponsor Emloyer for the time the PR takes. Once you have it you'll be glad you did it. You will then also have a better idea of how things work here and what max salary you can expect. You will also be able to go for face to face interviews.

On a 457 alone you will not have Medicare but once you have the PR app in you qualify.

There are not many advatages of being on a PR in opposition to being on a 457 for the first two years, so thats no issue.

Hope this helps a bit. But please this is just my advice and might not be for you.

PR takes about a year and a half and 457 (once you have the job) about 3 months.

Good luck

Nilo

[Mara]

The only other thing that makes a huge difference between 457 and PR is if you go to ACT or NSW, if you have school going children as they would have to pay foreign student fees.

[Sam]

Another issue with sponsorship is that you may be binded in a job that you don't like and the salary may not be to your satisfaction. With PR, you instantly have medicare, choice of which city you want to be in, choice of where to work, and you don't have to pay those hefty fees for school in those areas Mara is talking about. PR may take longer but you have to get your passport and other documents ready anyway. Plus your occupation is fast tracked because it's on the MODL list, so how long can it really take?

Sponsorship for some is the best choice. You can have your sponsor pay for your relocation and initial setup costs and everything is done in 3 - 4 months. Taking time to get PR is better for others because it gives you freedom and choice from the word go.

Good luck with your choice.

[antzy]

hi all,

thanks for the input....and encouragement....my daughter is 3, so not "quite" school-going, but this forms an imortant part of my decision...i need to make sure there is stability for her too and would prefer to not have to move her around. that's why i want to be sure where i go and how....any idea of costs for pre-schoolers in your area as well?

nilo, you say pr & 457 has no difference in the 1st 2years...in what way...i thought pr = PR...no limits?

i'm also curious about the weather and lifestyles of the people in your areas...i hear sydney is very wet for most part of the year - coming from durban, makes it difficult to adjust to "jhb/ct" weather...

i was told brisbane is similiar to durbs...and perth like ct...

cheers for now

antz

[Teresa]

Hi Antz,

I agree with sunflower, we also were not sure which route to go.. After reading the criteria for ENS scheme(employer nomination = sponsorship ) on the DIAC site..we decided to go with the longer but safer route.

our Resons:

=You can go anywhere in OZ thus not being bound to one state.

=Signing a job offer/ contract thousands of kms away without seeing the area, was very risky

=Being bound to that contract for 2 - 4 years, well that also didnt stick very well.

=To be able to sponsor some one, the employer need to prove to the gov, that they are battling to find some one in their own country to fill the possision, why?? thats when warning lights should go on!

=You are not earning what you can on PR being that this is a sponsorship, mean that the employer wil 9 out of ten times offer a lower salary that people with PR.

well, that was our reasons. We have friends that went on a 457 and are very happy they did, so I think it is a personal choice one has to make because cicumstances differ.

Hope this helps.

good luck!

Teresa

[Nilo]

Hi Antz

I have just reread what everyone has said, oh and by the way what I had said too, It's the BIG move not the BOG move, slip of the finger sorry!

On a 457 you will be "tied" down to the employer sponsoring you for the period of sponsorship. We asked for a 1 year 457 because we knew our 136 would come thru before the year was up and thus didn't need the employer to sponsor us anymore. So for what Teresa has said you are bound to one state is not for the 457's 4 year period but for the time you chose.

I realize that if a contract is sighned in a rural town that's not well known to anybody you might be taking a chance, but to sighn a contract for Brissie or any of the big cities, is not that big a risk. We didn't do a LSD didn't even know what it looked like here, and we're VERY happy. So I would say calculated risk.

The fact that the sponsor needs to prove to the gov. that they can not find someone, in their own country, to fill the possision is a world wide phenomenon. Do you want to tell me that all those companies are bad?

Australia, as for the rest of the world including SA are experiencing shortages in trained/skilled Artisans, IT, Dr's, nurses etc etc, that it why it is easy to get work on a 457 or temp work visa in most countries in the world. Not neccessarily because the company is bad! (there are exceptions to the rule)

We are earning more than we would have on PR (even though we have PR now) a whole $4 per hour more! My hubby is still with the company the sponsored our 457 even though he has been looking around. A sponsoring company can NOT pay you a salary under the av. as they have to send your contract to the powers that be and they will not grant the visa if you are being exploited! AUSTRALIA IS VERY FAIR!!!!! The Worker has many options if he/she is treated unfairly.

The whole trick is to be informed!!! Do your homework!! Don't rely on other's information only! Do your own research!

Okay that's all for now.

Lovies

Nilo

PS: Brissie is very dry at the moment but it is still warm and humid some days. Mostly it is okay just those extreme ones here and there. We live on the North side about 12 k's out of the city and it doesn't even feel as if we're in a city. Winter was a bit cold for us but we were not acclimatised, should be better next winter.

[Mara]

Well said Nilo, I do sometimes scratch my head when I see the things that people take as gospel.....he said, she said.....need I say more! I suggest that people realise that this is Australia, not everyone is out to get you.....although it does happen......I think it is rare. They are known to be a country that is ready to give you a go!

Companies in Australia only resort to "importing" workers, when they cannot source them locally. A happy worker is a good worker, now who in their right mind would try to exploit a "well qualified" worker that is extremely important to their company's wellbeing? After all the "imported" worker is not bound hand and foot to that company, he can always find another sponser and take out a new 457.....or am I wrong?

[antzy]

Teresa..thanks...as i'm not in a hurry, i might just go the PR route. It's still early days for me, so have time to decide.

i do agree Mara, not all have bad intentions, but it is a well known fact that some immigrants have been exploited...my 1boss is a great eg of that and i know of some other people too. But as you say it is probably the exception rather than the rule...i'm hesitant of the areas that i might be placed, as i have never been to Oz. And i am quite confident that one can negotiate a better rate of pay directly with the employer, than thru an agent, as the employer has to pay agent fees and commissions for as long as you are contracted there.

what's melbourne like, weatherwise?

what's LSD?

any input from Sydney?

chow-chow

antz

[Nilo]

Hi Antzy

An LSD is Look See Decide. Could also be a drug that you get addicted on as soon as you have visited Aussie and see how good life is here. (joke)

As far as I know it can be rather chilly in Melbourn but that said I am told that it's very arty and beautiful.

Sydney is just as lovely and very "with it" but also more expensive than most cities in Aus.

Perth is said to be calm and quiet and is also rather on it's own there far to the west.

Brissie is hot and rather Humid (not that bad) and at the moment VERY dry!

Cairns is hugely tropical and steamy half the year and wet the other.

Have I got it right guys?

Nilo

PS: Ah, nearly forgot Adelaide. Aparently a lot like the Cape cold, wet and full of wind.

[MannyT]

Hi Antzy

I will to respond to your post taking into consideration your stated circumstances/considerations.

- The main advantage with the 457 visa is that approval time would be quicker (than PR) and you may be able to negotiate that your sponsor pays for your flights and moving expenses.Your sponsor may also be prepared to arrange and pay for your accommodation for a short period after your arrival.

- The approval time for a PR visa will be longer but there are also many advantages that go with arriving in Australia on a PR visa.

- Freedom of choice regarding where you may want to live and work in Australia.

- You will qualify immediately for very valuable benefits like Medicare, child benefits(Centrelink), cheaper education costs (compared to people on temporary visas) etc..etc..You will actually enjoy most and/or the same benefits as OZ citizens.

- Some people have found the time they spend "in limbo" while on a temporary visit (until they are granted PR) rather disconcerting.

- There are no restrictions on the purchase of a property/house/flat if you on a PR visa.

- Radiographers are in high demand all over Australia so you should have no problem finding a job with an employer of your choice once you arrive(on a PR visa). Those "same" recruitment agencies that are falling over themselves to arrange 457 sponsorship will still be quite happy to arrange job interviews for you once you have arrived in Oz(on a PR visa).

- My recommendation to someone in you situation would be that you choose one of the "smaller" cities, like Brisbane,Perth or Adelaide to move to, all three of these cities have therr own particular attractions and are all great places to live and raise a family in. One could probably say that about all the cities in OZ.

The most important thing is to select the visa that best suits your personal circumstances and needs.

Have fun with the process.

Enjoy!

Manny

[antzy]

Hi,

thanks for the input...that's what i like: specific, useful info...as you've probably figured i am battling with the decision as to where to go....but it seems its either Brisbane or Sydney (most likely the latter as i have friends there), but dont want that to influence my decision too much....friends can also relocate.

I also prefer making more calculated decisions...hence the questions.

this seems a fabulous website for that!!!!!thanks to all!!!

enjoy the GAME...good luck to our Boks...or have you been converted?

antz

[AfrikaSon]

Hi you,

If and when you can, try speaking to Debbie Tait on 011 868 3204 - oh yes she's good! They have offices in Sydney as well, and very clued up on all the know-how re different choices.

All the best!

[Bob]

Antoinette,

the world is your oyster.

As a Radiographer, you won't have any dramas about work . . . or where!

The main issue therefore is what are the pros and cons of coming and living in Australia.

From how I see it, they can get you working in Australia in a flash with the minimum of personal checks, in very short time on a 457 temporary visa.

However, you'll get no more help from the Australian gov't in the way of Medicare, child endowment payments for your little 3 yr old, you'll have to pay top dollar for child care and any schooling, there is no First Home Owners Grant of $7 000 tax-free for buying your first home in Australia, etc.

. . . . . and, on top of all that, you still will have to go thro prodecure again, all the paperwork, to be granted a permanent visa to see you working after your temp visa runs out.

A permanent visa takes a little longer because they have to check you out with a fine tooth comb . . . health checks, personality checks, police checks, work record, etc.

This obviously takes longer, but if you are a straight forward case with all your paperwork on hand and ready to go when requested, you could easily be "fast tracked" for your visa application as an occupation in high demand.

I think we'd only be talking about a few more months' waiting here . . . . and then you can forget having to apply all over again for permanent residency.

With PR you get choices . . . choice of where you want to live, choice of where you want to work, choice of child care places for your little one and choice of school, etc. and you get all the Australian gov't benefits . . . fortnightly child endowment payments for your little one, free school dental treatment, Medicare, cheap prescriptions, etc.

You and your 3 year old will have all the same choices as a home grown Aussie.

. . . . and, by the way, Adelaide is a bl..dy good spot to live in and bring kids up in.

It's about the same size as Perth and Brisbane +/- 10% and has affordable housing for people starting off the ground in Australia, unlike Perth and Brisbane. Housing is about half to two thirds the cost of housing in Adelaide with a similar climate to Perth . . . long, hot dry summers / cool damp winters.

The lifestyle in Adelaide is pretty relaxed and easy going . . . and safe.

My wife's nephew (a mechanic) left for Perth earlier this year but chose not to stay as the rental and housing was beyond his means . . . . no worries about work, lovely city, but hellish expensive to live there!

I've lived in four capital cities around Australia in my time and they are all great places to live and work.

If I were a South African, I'd be hard pressed to choose.

In the end, it comes down to how you feel about a place, the friends you make in a place, the affordablility of a place and the future prospects of that State.

Only you can decide on those features.

Edited October 25, 2007 by Bob

[anita1]

Hi all,

I'm trying to get some advice on what the best way is to relocate to Oz...i havent quite made up my mind where in Oz(possibly Sydney/Brisbane)....i need to know a few things:

I'm a single parent, 30-something (more like almost-40!)...radiographer and i'm not keen on doing the sponsorship thing....i believe one forfeits quite a bit in terms of state benefits.

I dont mind waiting a few months for visas and i dont mind spending a "bit" of money on getting there. Other than PR, does anyone know how the Skilled Independant Visa works? OR any other suggestions.

I'm getting alot of pressure from the employment agencies to find me a job...sponsored...but I feel that I could negotiate better salaries if the employer didn't have to pay commission and/or not be committed to a particular work set-up should i be unhappy where i am placed.

The decision making is quite a daunting task in itself. Anyone with advice or suggestions?

antz

If you can, use a sponsor - they pay for all and you need to work 1 year back. Then you can move out to where you want to.

[TheBs]

If you can, use a sponsor - they pay for all and you need to work 1 year back. Then you can move out to where you want to.

Just be careful here. A sponsor does not automatically pay or assist with one's costs. It is an individual decision by each sponsor.

[antzy]

Hi everyone,

thanks for all the replies....perhaps i'm just feeling anxious to go now...the forum is partly responsible for this...all the comments and encouragement makes one wanna get there NOW!

Does anyone know anything about the 119/857 visa?(regional sponsorship with PR benefits?) The one agent(employment) is totally against it and another is keen...my other thought is that my daughter will be between 4&5 (if i go PR) and this would make it harder to take her away from her familiar surroundings (ie her dad)...and moving to a place with no "support" in place could make difficult for adjustment. I'm not worried about me, but her...can anyone relate?

Bob, when you say "fast-tracked" do you mean once my PR has been approved or before as my skill is in demand? I know there is a shortage of Radiographers around the world, so partly i feel i should be able to land a job easily...why only rely on agents, I say?

And as far as I know, the agents/employers wont pay for relocation costs, so I am not bargaining on that...It just makes your indebtedness greater.

Afrikason, I'll be phoning Debbie soon. Thanks for the lead...is she an agent?

For those living in Sydney region, what is the average income one would need to get by for instance for a family of 2? Not living IN Sydney....considering daycare, etc...PM me for more confidential info.

till next time...

antz

[LeeInOz]

Hi everyone,

thanks for all the replies....perhaps i'm just feeling anxious to go now...the forum is partly responsible for this...all the comments and encouragement makes one wanna get there NOW!

Does anyone know anything about the 119/857 visa?(regional sponsorship with PR benefits?)

Bob, when you say "fast-tracked" do you mean once my PR has been approved or before as my skill is in demand? I know there is a shortage of Radiographers around the world, so partly i feel i should be able to land a job easily...why only rely on agents, I say?

Afrikason, I'll be phoning Debbie soon. Thanks for the lead...is she an agent?

till next time...

antz

Personally I would go back one step. Before contacting agents, get your skills assesed

Download . Download doc 1121i, skills and get assesed as skill 2312-29.

But before this also get booklet 6 and any other information.

You need this done to practice anyway

From what I see 457 is faster. What you could do is submit a PR application, and a 457. ( The last approved visa overides the others. So if 457 is approved then you move, and when the PR comes through.

I know several people who were on 457 and are earning below the going rate, and as soon as their contract is coplete will move. Employers seem to be more organised than pay heaps to get you herer and want you tied down for a year. Most insist on 2 years as a Temp, then sponsor PR with a further 2 year contract.

[Bob]

Bob, when you say "fast-tracked" do you mean once my PR has been approved or before as my skill is in demand? I know there is a shortage of Radiographers around the world, so partly i feel i should be able to land a job easily...why only rely on agents, I say?

Antoinette,

I don't know the answer to visa questions. I'm one of those lucky ones, like Mara and others, who have never needed an Australian visa.

I have heard of people with skills desperately in need of being granted their visa sooner, rather than later compared to the average waiting period one would expect to hang out for.

I'd be getting in touch with a hospital to see if they could do with your services, get them onside and say you'd be interested in working for them, but you need to get hold of a PR visa first.

If they were any good, they'd help to pull a few strings for you and get you working at their hospital sooner than if you did the whole visa arrangement yourself.

If they don't come up with any help and weren't interested in pulling strings to get you over, I'd see that as a sign that once I worked for them things wouldn't be much different. They would be a hopeless place to work in. Just try another hospital or radiography practice.

Don't give up . . . . you get out of life pretty much what you are capable of putting in.

I'm mentioning PR because of the cost benefits of getting your little girl in child care. That will cost a fortune if you have to cough up for it all on your own, which I'd imagine, you'd have to do so on a Temp visa as Australian gov't benefits are next to nothing. The Australian gov't subsidises the cost of child care for working mums.

[LeeInOz]

Antoinette,

I don't know the answer to visa questions. I'm one of those lucky ones, like Mara and others, who have never needed an Australian visa.

I have heard of people with skills desperately in need of being granted their visa sooner, rather than later compared to the average waiting period one would expect to hang out for.

I'd be getting in touch with a hospital to see if they could do with your services, get them onside and say you'd be interested in working for them, but you need to get hold of a PR visa first.

If they were any good, they'd help to pull a few strings for you and get you working at their hospital sooner than if you did the whole visa arrangement yourself.

If they don't come up with any help and weren't interested in pulling strings to get you over, I'd see that as a sign that once I worked for them things wouldn't be much different. They would be a hopeless place to work in. Just try another hospital or radiography practice.

I'm mentioning PR because of the cost benefits of getting your little girl in child care. That will cost a fortune if you have to cough up for it all on your own, which I'd imagine, you'd have to do so on a Temp visa as Australian gov't benefits are next to nothing. The Australian gov't subsidises the cost of child care for working mums.

To work in many fields, you MUST have your skills assesed first. Nursing Radiographer etc.

I know of electricians who come on 457 and are paid as trade assistants because they dont get their skills assesed in the state they are working. The employer loves this because they have skilled people being underpaid. I know of more than a few in this situation.

If you get your skills assesed there, THEN look for a sponsor, you will be worth more because you are closer to a known commodity. Radiographers are in high demand everywhere www.A-I-R.com.au. the assesment is normally valid for a few years.

My wife got her nursing skills assesed then we looked at state sponsored visa for South Australia. It turned out to be as drawn out and more complicated than independant visa. After the application for 136 once we had gone for medicals suddenly we started recieving emails as if by magic from many states. Our visa had not yet been approved but this was a signal I think that it was almost complete.

From the many I know you lose time on the one hand by appying for PR but you gain in many ways, apart from having to then do all the stuff from here.

One thing I discovered is depending on your employer, if you come on a sposored visa, you can claim a living away form home on your tax treturn. The employer has to agree to do this. So this can cover your airline tickets container visa application cost etc. You must be employed out of Australia for this to work.

You cant do this on skilled independant

[Guest wilna]

Does anyone know anything about the 119/857 visa?(regional sponsorship with PR benefits?) The one agent(employment) is totally against it and another is keen...

Hi antzy

Ons gaan op die RSMS 119/857 visa oor......

- dis ook 'n permanente visa.

- jy moet eers 'n sponsor kry.

- jy moet vir 2 jaar vir jou sponsor werk.

- dit moet in 'n regional area wees.

- vat so tussen 4 en 7 maande. (dis wat ek gehoor het)

- dis 'n goeie opsie as jy nie genoeg punte vir die 175 PR visa het nie.

Groete Wilna

[antzy]

Hi Wilna, uiteindelik iemand wat iets van die 119/857 weet...niemand kon tot dusver uithelp nie. Waarheen gaan julle? My vriendien, ook 'n radiografis, gaan net buite Perth werk op dieselfde visa...lyk my nie dis 'n algemene visa om te gebruik nie...ek hoop dis goed.Ek het wel genoeg punte vir 175, sal dit 'n probleem wees om aansoek te doen vir 119?

Does anyone know what areas are considered "regional" outside Sydney?

By the way: I am AIR assessed and approved. So , i just need a job and a visa (or the other way around)...

So am I right in saying i can apply for both 457(or any other sponsorship visa) and 175 at same time? Would I then need to go for 2medicals, etc because it being 2complete seperate applications?

Bob, you mention the costs being high for daycare for my daughter- is that just in Sydney or everywhere? Also, would it be better for a single mom to start off in a less busy/expensive city/region?

Thanks for all the input - again.

[Guest Bronwyn]

Hi Antzy

You may want to consider Adelaide, South Australia. As a single parent (or any parent) there are many benefits to living here, as follows:-

-It's regional and so you will get in easier & faster

-The city is big enough not to feel like a 'dorp' - 1,1 million people

-I see you are from Toti, and Adelaide is also a laid-back, friendly kind of a place

-You are close to the sea and so your child will be able to play on the beach, go to free vacswim (lifesaving) classes in the holidays, etc

-It's close to the mountains so there are very beautiful walking trails and parks dotted all over the show

-There are various nature reserves where you can see kangaroos, koalas, etc, as well as possibly having a koala as close as your back yard if you live slightly out of town

- I have been to a few countries, but never seen anywhere quite as beautiful as the Adelaide Hills. You can't even capture it in a photo, you have to see it in person

-This is known as the 20 minute city so you will never be far away from anything. Personally I think this is a bit of a stretch, as it takes at least an hour to drive from one side to the other, but basically if you are at work and your child becomes ill, for eg, you will probably be a 20 minute drive away, maximum

-School fees are free (and we have a temporary visa). There is no financial pressure, you can buy their school uniforms at K-Mart (like Pick 'n Pay). The Aussie parents seem to work to a very strict budget and moan about paying $10 for anything, so extras are rarely required. If a teacher has a birthday, for example, and you get asked to contribute towards a gift, they don't expect you to donate more than $5 and most kids will only hand in around $2....Quite a change from the never-ending demands we were used to.

-Housing is a lot more affordable than the other major cities. We are expecting our boom any day now due to expansion of the mining industry, new ship building contracts and a welcoming attitude to immigrants .

-Weekends will fun (and practically free), you will be rushed off your feet visiting the museum (actually very interesting! ), beach, botanic gardens, zoo, parks, & going to never-ending school sports. Kids are encouraged to participate in everything, and are usually rewarded with a certificate or a medal just for trying. My kids now have sport 7 days a week

-There are at least 3 Uni's here, as well as a choice of high schools, Private & Government. Some specialise in music & arts, some in languages, some in Agriculture, etc. The choices are huge.

-If you or your child need to rely on buses to get to school or work they are reliable and cheap, and run all day & night, even on weekends. My friend's son is only 10 and he catches a bus home from school every day with absolutely no problems and no-one bothering him.

-People say it's a family-friendly city, and it's true. You can really have a great life here. Because you probably won't have a support structure at first you will want to make life as easy as possible, and here you can do that.

-South Aus is known as the Festival State because of the year-round concerts and events (wine-tasting, wierd hippy bands, horse races, V8 Supercar races - the choice is, well, daunting). We get more big concerts (Rod Stewart & Elton John, Gen Stefani, Roger Waters, Robbie Williams - off the top of my head) here than Joburg does.

I hope it helps. I'm sure a lot of the above will also apply to other States, but I only know Adelaide!

Bronwyn

Oh - BTW - There is a big South African community here, so if you need some maatjies (even until you make Aussie friends - haha) you will have some. I have made some real friends this way. In the beginning you might need someone to help you out a bit. Things (like interviews and work functions) happen, and without granny or aunties, etc, it can be very daunting. It helps to know people who understand & can jump in & help if you have an emergency.

Edited October 29, 2007 by Bronwyn

[Guest wilna]

Hi antzy

Ongelukkig is nie baie werkgewers bereid om jou met die RSMS visa te sposor nie omdat dit bietjie langer vat maar jy kan altyd probeer.

Ons gaan Adelaide toe, ons is natuurlik baie opgewonde,

jy kan hier gaan kyk waar regional areas is. http://www.immi.gov.au/employers/rsms_postcodes.htm

en hier verduidelik hulle die RSMS visa http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/skilled-wor...rsms/step-3.htm

Groete Wilna

Edited October 29, 2007 by wilna

[TheBs]

So am I right in saying i can apply for both 457(or any other sponsorship visa) and 175 at same time? Would I then need to go for 2medicals, etc because it being 2complete seperate applications?

We are also trying to find out about this ............... if we apply for a 175 and go for medicals can we then use these same meds for the 457?

Many thanks