TamTam Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, MichaelvdBerg said: the baby is the priority Well then there is your answer - a safe environment is the most important thing then. A safe environment now, not a decade from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottg Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 I see many red flags just by reading this. I can share a few real-life cases while personally also been through early startups. I'm not risk-adverse but just learned a few lessons. The only fact now is that you won't know what happens in the future. You only get one chance to negotiate and that is now, not afterwards! 6 hours ago, MichaelvdBerg said: that is the goal as all involved have children of their own Great, they only need someone to go a build it for them! Someone that is prepared to take the risk, run the extra mile, understand the business etc. 6 hours ago, MichaelvdBerg said: build a core competency for them They need something of value quickly at low risk by someone they trust and that trust them 6 hours ago, MichaelvdBerg said: more like a partnership Is it or isnt it? If its not on paper it doesn't exist! Very difficult to put this in place afterwards because.... Let's say 5 years from now, the company is up and running and ready for a buy-out, will the potential investor negotiate with you or with the owners of the business? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelvdBerg Posted November 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, ottg said: I see many red flags just by reading this. I can share a few real-life cases while personally also been through early startups. I'm not risk-adverse but just learned a few lessons. The only fact now is that you won't know what happens in the future. You only get one chance to negotiate and that is now, not afterwards! Great, they only need someone to go a build it for them! Someone that is prepared to take the risk, run the extra mile, understand the business etc. They need something of value quickly at low risk by someone they trust and that trust them Is it or isnt it? If its not on paper it doesn't exist! Very difficult to put this in place afterwards because.... Let's say 5 years from now, the company is up and running and ready for a buy-out, will the potential investor negotiate with you or with the owners of the business? There are 2 businesses involved. Software products-based and consultation-based. I am offered directorship/ownership of the one that builds software as a service products that will be utilised in the projects that will need them for the clients. Myself and the other director will be directly involved with the clients as consultants via the consultation business. There is a lot of work..too much and they have a lot in common and a good position for some of the stuff we've already built that is cloud-based so could be spring-boarded by these projects as the clients prefer not to be doing it or hosting it themselves if the can help it. I understand that I may have been lacking info here. I have done business with these guys before and we've come a long way. My current CEO (the company wanting to send me to Seattle) is also a very decent and moral man so the people involved in this decision are not something that I would raise as an issue...the issue is me :/ As an IT and tech-driven person, I also think a big part of this is not just $$ and 'finally' doing something for myself business-wise but the breadth of cloud-technologies that one gets experience and exposure to is huge. If our country wasn't so unstable, this would have been a no-brainer. Problem is...when I look at all this, it takes 2nd place to that feeling you get when you look at your newborn. Edited November 1, 2017 by MichaelvdBerg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottg Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 Wish life was easier. Often it helps to understand the type of problem you dealing with better. From what you told us; the only decision is now based on your child. If RSA was stable you would have stayed and perhaps so would have many other people on this forum. The reality is that it’s not stable. That said, many others are still happy to stay for many different reasons. In order to move, you will sacrifice quite a few things as mentioned. If you move you gain safety but that may put your wife in an environment where she doesn’t have the help she now has with a tiny baby. Further, if you postpone your move, say by 2 years, it may solve some issues but create new ones. This is a great example of a wicked problem which is “difficult or impossible to solve because of incomplete, contradictory and changing requirements that are often difficult to recognize. ... Moreover, because of complex interdependencies, the effort to solve one aspect of a wicked problem may reveal or create other problems”. How do you solve a wicked problem? You cannot but you can manage it, as you will only know the solution once you have done it and look back in time. https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/article/wicked-problems-5-steps-to-help-you-tackle-wicked-problems-by-combining-systems-thinking-with-agile-methodology Just know that whatever decision you take, will be your best decision! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPanda Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 If the Seattle opportunity is good, I would say go there instead. It doesn't matter how good your personal growth is, or how excellent your earnings or career advancement- if you get a phone call from a paramedic because some imbecile drove your wife and daughter off the road(because he was going 160km/hr in an 80 zone). Or broke into the house and killed them. Or hijacked their car. Or shot them in a shopping mall. I know priorities are different, and that's part of life. But I would not want to raise a child in a dangerous environment, and South Africa is dangerous right now. Just make a list of the friends and family you know directly that have been affected by crime, and how many times. And while you said you wish you were an economist, the 'big economists' of the world have delivered their estimation of South Africa's economy: it's junk status on one and heading for junk on the other two. I would say the one and only real argument for staying in South Africa is family. And nobody can tell you what to decide there. So with that one, it's up to you. Many people on the forum have said it before: planes fly both ways, family can visit, and once your children are bigger they can listen to bedtime stories read over Skype or FaceTime. But we all know it's not really the same as living next door to grandma. We can all give our opinions, but at the end of the day it's a personal choice, and nobody can judge you. Whatever you choose. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superkruz Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 Michael, I returned to SA last year having spent 5 years in Australia and another 5 in USA. Fortunately for me I now have both citizenships so going back (if I ever decide to) will be easy from an admin perspective. If you'd like to talk about life in Aus or USA, please feel free to PM me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelvdBerg Posted November 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Once more, thanks so much guys for your insight. I will most definitely tell you what my decision is as the window of opportunity will not last too long, at least for the staying SA option. @RedPanda You are right. Family is my priority and I am reminded of that each time I look at my 1 month old little girl(sorry, I had to attach the picture). I think I may already know the answer and what I am experiencing now is the equivalent of the short moment of 'what the hell am I doing' before the start of a Midmar Mile race. Edited November 1, 2017 by MichaelvdBerg 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad76 Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Hey Michael, After reading your posts and motivations I think you should really consider SimpleSimon's advice. They way in which you're motivating your options, the desperate search for an answer you're not going to find on a forum etc all suggest that sooner or later either of the two emigration destinations will chew you up and spit you out! The last thing you want to do is force a move, make a mistake and cost yourself time and money - ultimately landing back at square one! PS: I think a Resident Return Visa is off the table! Edited November 1, 2017 by Brad76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelvdBerg Posted November 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 24 minutes ago, Brad76 said: Hey Michael, After reading your posts and motivations I think you should really consider SimpleSimon's advice. They way in which you're motivating your options, the desperate search for an answer you're not going to find on a forum etc all suggest that sooner or later either of the two emigration destinations will chew you up and spit you out! The last thing you want to do is force a move, make a mistake and cost yourself time and money - ultimately landing back at square one! PS: I think a Resident Return Visa is off the table! Thanks for the post Brad, I've seen that happen and one of my colleagues has actually moved back from Seattle just because they missed the family and the ties with loved ones too much. Truth being told, neither staying nor moving is going to feel non-forced as I know I won't be 100% happy with either. I guess you can't have your cake and eat it. I'm not intimidated or anything as such with the migration itself nor the commitment it takes. If I reach a decision, it is done and there is no going back since, as I've said, my priorities are different now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonny Posted November 8, 2017 Report Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) All the best with making a difficult decision Michael. Your baby girl is beautiful! Sometimes just 'getting away' to a quiet spot (preferably in nature) clears the mind, and you realise your answer has been there all along. Edited November 8, 2017 by Bonny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonny Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 @MichaelvdBerg what did you do? Looks like SA was your choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.