A most difficult decision

[MichaelvdBerg]

Hi Everyone,

 

Just a quick disclaimer: I wanted to post the question here since here and not on SAUSA,org since this forum is very informative and I still have an Aussie 175 visa so Aussie is not off the cards.

 

We all know why we are here and I doubt that I have to discuss any of the mountain of issues facing South Africa, but still..I swallow hard on the prospect of leaving. Many of you would call my crazy, especially since I'm, at the time of writing this post, a father to a 1 month old beautiful girl. Why am I not on a plane yet? I don't know and things have become even more complex so I thought I'd here some opinions and perhaps there are some of you who share a similar situation.

 

My company recently said that they earmarked me for a move to Seattle next year. I have a senior position so its basically just a relocate to a new life in a first world country. It comes at a peculiar time since my Aussie 175 visa will expire next year if I don't end up using it.

To make things even more complex, a business opportunity has arrived and it is basically a done deal but will require commitment to SA. This will put me on a different scale in terms of finances altogether...

 

I know that money isn't everything but there are other reasons why I am torn between these decisions..so much so that I've even drafted the pros and cons and yet it still breaks my mind.

 

The things that tells my mind to stay:

• Support structure and family bond, especially for our little girl to get to know her grand parents and family.
• We are a very close family and it breaks my heart to leave everyone behind.
• Amazing career/business prospects..as I say, a done deal basically and a great future.

 

Things that make me think about leaving

• How long can SA persist at the current rate?
• I'm not getting younger (36) and losing opportunities like these may very well seal my fate in whether we can go in the future
• Countries are closing up borders

 

This is really tearing me in half and I would appreciate your views and hear some of your stories that may make me think about things in a different way...I would appreciate it

 

-Mike

 

Edited October 27, 2017 by MichaelvdBerg

[TamTam]

I think everyone on this forum is going to question your sanity  

You have a visa - A GOLDEN ticket (you will however have to apply for a child 101 visa for your daughter).

 

Ask yourself this - are the reasons you applied for the OZ visa in the first place still valid? Will you miss the comforts and luxuries in SA, perhaps. But nothing quite compares with the freedom of being safe and knowing your loved ones are safe. You start placing less value on the material and more on the quality of life. Think of it this way, either you pave the way now for your kids or they'll do it at a later stage. Yes you will miss your family and yes, starting again is hard. But it's worth it.

 

I can't speak for USA versus OZ, but the US seems like a bit of a mess to me and the work/life balance is not great (this is just what I am told by friends who live there). What type of visa are you going to be moved on? Is it permanent or is there a risk of having to move back to SA should things cave or you don't like the new role? Whereas the 175 visa you are not reliant on anyone.

 

 

[Clauderoy]

Hi @MichaelvdBerg

 

On the contrary, there is so much I and others could advise you on, but ultimately its your decision. 

There are definately pro's and con's for both, leaving and staying, but I suppose my concern would be that people advise you without knowing the full story. Perhaps your potential career/business project could be life changing but we dont know the details. 

Even though it seems like an easy decision to make,  it never is. Once we had decided to make the move, we literally had a spreadsheet with all our options detailing the outcome, which took into account finances, family life, future plans, etc. Ultimately we made the decision which was best for us. 

So I would say, think about what you want for your family and do that. It takes many hours and thinking and talking and running through different scenarios, and lots of back and forth.

 

Do keep in mind, that depending on your visa, im not sure, you may need that Child 101 visa and that can take a few months, to get her passport and documents together and apply and wait. 

 

Good luck  

[Ta2Bryan]

As we near our Visa Application date I can understand your sentiments more and more.

That being said, if you have a close family unit and good financial prospects in SA, these will need to seriously considered. While money is not everything, you can do more to protect your family with money.

My only big question would be the "What if?"

What if something happened to your little girl, could you live with the "What if...?" Sorry to put it like that, but as a father of 2 young children, that is my driving force despite my doubts and fears of moving to Aus.

 

Good luck with your decision!

[RYLC]

It is complicated and a tough road whether you choose Oz or whether you got o USA / stay in RSA. 

Here are my thoughts: if the choice is Oz or USA then I'd vote for Oz for lifestyle, safety etc. To me, USA doesn't offer a better lifestyle. only 2 weeks annual leave a year instead of 4 weeks for starters. If the choice is RSA versus Oz then you have a lot of thinking to do. A lucrative business opportunity sounds good right now but in the long term with inflation and currency devaluation, will it be lucrative in first world terms? As for family, that's a tough one but planes do go both ways and there is no reason why you can't go to Oz, get citizenship in time and then the world is your oyster on where you want to live. The decision you need to make doesn't have to be so absolute that it's this or that. Put your problem solving hat on to work out how you can get most of what you want eventually (step by step).

 

I guess for me the ultimate deciding factor though is this: either you leave now to pave the way for your daughter or she will leave later as an adult because there are no opportunities available to her anymore. What will you say to your adult daughter about the decisions you made when she asks you why you chose to stay/go. Your highest priority in making your decisions should be securing your daughter's future. Does this change of focus change your answer of what to do?  Sit with it for a bit and see what comes up for you. 

Edited October 27, 2017 by RYLC

[TamTam]

Listen  to @RYLC - her commentary is always honest but very pragmatic!

[MichaelvdBerg]

1 hour ago, TamTam said:

I think everyone on this forum is going to question your sanity  

You have a visa - A GOLDEN ticket (you will however have to apply for a child 101 visa for your daughter).

 

Ask yourself this - are the reasons you applied for the OZ visa in the first place still valid? Will you miss the comforts and luxuries in SA, perhaps. But nothing quite compares with the freedom of being safe and knowing your loved ones are safe. You start placing less value on the material and more on the quality of life. Think of it this way, either you pave the way now for your kids or they'll do it at a later stage. Yes you will miss your family and yes, starting again is hard. But it's worth it.

 

I can't speak for USA versus OZ, but the US seems like a bit of a mess to me and the work/life balance is not great (this is just what I am told by friends who live there). What type of visa are you going to be moved on? Is it permanent or is there a risk of having to move back to SA should things cave or you don't like the new role? Whereas the 175 visa you are not reliant on anyone.

 

 

Thanks for the post

 

The L1B visa I'm going on is a more permanent one or less risky than the H1B visas. The role is pretty much the same and I'm already dealing with the same guys in any case so I guess the advantage is that I won't be looking for a new job and have familiar territory in that sense. I've not heard of anyone being denied once lodging for a green card via the company on those visas so hope it is something long term if we go that route.

[Mara]

I have lived in both USA and Australia, personally,  I found it much easier to settle in Australia. I can only express this in Afrikaans.. dit is asof 'n mens nie vatplek kan kry aan die Amerikaners nie.. hulle was vir my baie oppervlakkig..

 

So if you leave now, you will leave as a family,  how will you feel if one day your daughter leaves and you have to remain behind, just as RYLC said!

Edited October 27, 2017 by Mara
Mobile phone postings cannot spell, so just corrected it.

[Karools]

Disclaimer: my answer below is not meant to offend any person or group. It is simply me stating my opinion in a (subjective) factual manner. You are welcome to disagree, just do it respectfully and I have no issue discussing your objections via pm.

 

We are flying to oz on 3rd of December on one way tickets. 

 

My 10c for this discussion is as follows:

 

Africa is diffusing into RSA. Every day it is becoming more and more like it's northern neighbours. The Europeans tried to create a 'little europe' in the southern tip of africa, but this illusion is now quickly vanishing. The country's future is clear to see, look at Zim, Moz, Zambia, Botswana, Rwanda, Uganda, Congo etc. Each of them different from each other in terms of politics, socio economic factors, future prospects etc, yet ALL of them uniquely African. Would you (or your kids) be comfortable living in one of those countries, even with a good salary? 

 

I (like most people on this forum I imagine) was brought up with a European culture and moral code. Not to say that one culture is better than another one, but personally I much prefer the European code than the african one (or asian, middle eastern, latin etc for that matter). 

 

Would you rather be much richer than your fellow countrymen and living the 'high life', yet be in a poorer position than most aussies or yankees, or would you be happy being just another bloke with an average salary in a country where those with an average salary tend to be in a very good position and quite happy. This choice is subjective, no right or wrong answer, but be brutally honest with yourself. 

 

And yes the personal safety, rand devaluation, family support etc plays a big part, but these things you are already well aware of. 

 

Good luck with your decisions, this is a tough choice with high stakes whatever route you take.

[SimpleSimon]

I’ve lived and worked in South Africa, USA, Israel and Australia. In Australia I work for companies with HQs around the world.

 

No question in my mind Australia is paradise in comparison - great standard of living, clean, effective and efficient socioeconomic systems and warm and caring society. 

 

I came at age. 34. We took 2 steps back at first then moved 3 steps forward.

[ottg]

@MichaelvdBerg

A decision which impacts personal choices and our immediate life are always emotional. However, it should be backed by logic. By just using a list of pros and cons will not cut it, as all you need to do, is to ensure you have more pros than cons and .....voila... you have made the correct choice. I don't think so!

While there are many tools available to help with decision making for different scenarios, the Kepner-Tregoe is well suited for these types of decisions. It comes under different names like weighted decision matrix etc.

Here is an old book that describes different forms of decision making and a free download:

https://www.scribd.com/document/11744932/The-Three-Secrets-of-Wise-Decision-Making

Here is a write up on how to use it. Obviously just change the scenarios to suit your situation. Hope the link works!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w3fvp1p47jnepar/Decision tables.pdf?dl=0

 

[RYLC]

I've been thinking about this overnight and am getting the feeling that your preference is USA for a shortish period and then RSA and that your ticket to Oz is just muddying the waters for you. Whereas I think that the answers on here will be choosing between USA and Oz (assuming that they both offer a permanent spot of equal standing in the respective countries). I'm guessing too that the certainty of your current company taking you to USA and/or the certainty of starting a business venture in RSA outweigh the UNcertainty of starting over in Oz without a job. You'll have to weigh up how much certainty matters to you versus opportunity for safety and a more certain future for your child etc.

 

My thinking is that the business in RSA would be last on the list (no matter how lucrative) and here is why: Let's say it's very successful. You earn millions and have a very "comfortable" lifestyle. What your money can't buy in RSA is road maintenance, law and order, specialist medical care (because the best ones have already left and I'm not exaggerating - first-hand knowledge of distance being travelled for specialist care that used to be available close by).

 

A very good book on this subject is When a Crocodile Eats the Sun by Peter Godwin. It documents the decline in Zim where an elderly couple's expat son sends money but there is nothing in the shops to buy. The oldies have to cart water in buckets and live by candlelight because the country has deteriorated to such a level and basic amenities not maintained. In the end, it doesn't matter how much money you earn personally if there is nothing in the shops. I know it's hard to imagine - hence the book for a first-hand account.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2017 by RYLC

[TetchyWombat]

15 hours ago, MichaelvdBerg said:

The L1B visa I'm going on is a more permanent one or less risky than the H1B visas. The role is pretty much the same and I'm already dealing with the same guys in any case so I guess the advantage is that I won't be looking for a new job and have familiar territory in that sense. I've not heard of anyone being denied once lodging for a green card via the company on those visas so hope it is something long term if we go that route.

 

You probably already know this, but note that the L1B (and other non-immigrant visas) tie your right to remain in the US to your job. If you want to change jobs, or you lose your job, your options are limited (you would have to get a new visa, which probably means winning the H1B lottery where the odds are about 1 in 5, or, you would be forced to go back to SA).

 

If you're not a fan of taking risks, the Australian PR visa that you already have, is superior.

 

If you want to go the L1B to Green Card route, my advice is to negotiate for a contractual commitment from your employer to petition for the Green Card immediately after you move. If you don't do this, they have no incentive to start that process until year 3 or 4 of your L1B's validity (assuming they want to keep you), and until then, you have very diminished leverage to get better pay or work conditions.

 

Also, be warned that the green card process is a long slog. If (like most people) you need permanent labour certification (PERM: the utterly bogus procedure where the employer proves to the government that they can't get an American to do your job, by re-advertising it and then inventing plausible excuses why none of the applicants are qualified). If your employer has their act together and pays competent lawyers, the whole thing could happen in a year, at best, but if the PERM gets audited and you get mediocre support, it could take as long as three years.

Edited October 28, 2017 by TetchyWombat

[Bonny]

Having lived in Australia for 11 years, in your shoes I would go to Seattle. It is a fantastic, first-world city and a gateway to so many other parts of the USA. From what I can see, USA housing is generally less expensive than Australia, in fact I believe the cost of living is just far preferable, and the people are preferable too.

 

Australians are living under enormous strain at the moment with our government in tatters (again), and an ever-present threat of a housing bubble costing everyone their home's equity. Every few months we have billions wiped off the stock exchange for some reason or another, and we manufacture almost nothing here any more. As far as I'm concerned the Aus economy is reliant on property speculation and it's a house of cards. Did you know you'll have to pay over  $100 per day for childcare in Aus for your child to attend kindy? 

 

To stay in SA- It sounds doubtful to me that a business opportunity in SA could be so lucrative as to make staying worthwhile..are you going to earn Rands? As others have said, safety has no price.

 

For us, it would be Seattle in a heartbeat

Edited October 28, 2017 by Bonny

[RYLC]

@MichaelvdBerg I've just looked at your timeline and realised that you must have come to Australia at some point and then gone back to South Africa.  Is that the case? If so then you've had a taste of Australia and decided it wasn't for you?  Because if this is true then you can make an informed choice about Australia. It is not the unknown that it would be for somebody who has not ever lived here. You would already know what you didn't like about it... just wondering how long you spent in Oz and whether things are different now to how they were then to help you decide?

[Mara]

@MichaelvdBerg actually @RYLC has a point, unless you have lived in Australia and gained citizenship, you would not be returning on a visa that would have expired in 2013, so yes, what is the story... you should not need anybody to tell you about Australia, you obviously know what the lay of the land is here.

 

With regard to the post by @Bonny yes the USA seems a wonderful place, if you holiday there... yes you can find cheaper housing, and a cheaper cost of everyday living... but education at university level, without being a citizen could cost an arm and a leg. Also medical cover would make a huge dent in your pocket... unless you have actually experienced the cost of hospitalisation and operations in the USA, be very careful about disregarding this. I spent 36 hours in hospital, just some tests, on oxygen for the whole period, in a private room... want to know the cost US$23,500, I kid you not... fortunately for me, I was there on business and my employer paid the bill...

 

I would not take up the chance, it took some of my family 12 years to get their magical green cards and official permanent residency! I would hate to live in limbo for that long.

[ottg]

To me, the decision you need to make is all about location - USA or RSA. As @RYLC says, Oz just muddles the water.

However, my view is different. With sufficient personal wealth, you can live anywhere in the world even Oz. Also, 36 years is young.

A few questions to consider:

The position in USA, will that mean Directorship or CEO?

Will you have equity in the company or can you obtain equity in the new company or will you remain a salaried employee?

If as CEO, will there be performance bonuses?

 

Now look at the constraints you mentioned:

1.       The things that tells my mind to stay:

a.      Support structure and family bond, especially for our little girl to get to know her grandparents and family.

You cannot measure the value of this in any monetary terms. With sufficient wealth, you may be able to take them with, although perhaps not doable or practical.

b.      We are a very close family and it breaks my heart to leave everyone behind.

If things do go pear shape you may be blamed for the rest of your life by yourself, own family or direct family. No one knows and there are no guarantees. Many immigrants get divorced when it gets tough.

c.       Amazing career/business prospects..as I say, a done deal basically and a great future.

I assume you refer to the USA deal. See my view below

 

2.       Things that make me think about leaving

a.       How long can SA persist at the current rate?

No one knows but on a positive side, new political leaders may emerge that turns the country around. Then you can always return if you need/want to.

b.      I'm not getting younger (36) and losing opportunities like these may very well seal my fate in whether we can go in the future

This is young and give you many opportunities to do what you really want to do.

c.       Countries are closing up borders

May be true, and therefore seize the opportunities when they exist.

 

If you in a position to build wealth rapidly with the new position, you have done the decision matrix and the outcome points to USA then go!

 

Here is a true story with a twist. Someone I know very well was invited to the USA. His employee decided to expand their RSA business to the USA. He was the kingpin and architect in the software development team with a very senior position. The company’s expansion program depended on his expertise. So he went! After 5 years and after launching 3 very successful products in the USA they made him redundant without a visa. The CEOs all retired. He had no equity in the business etc. He had to leave the USA after unsuccessfully tried to gain new employment (it was some visa thing). He then took his family and went to the Cayman Islands and started a very successful business servicing many of the customers in the USA. He has been there now for 5 years, with no intention to return to RSA. Have lifestyle we can only dream about with a large South African community as friends.

Some food for thought!

[WayneAndMel]

@MichaelvdBerg Others have already shared a lot of facts and perspectives with you but as @ottg has picked up, you really need a way to arrive at a conclusion. 

 

The unfortunate thing is we can't remove the uncertainty and risk inherent in your choices for you. Could you make the move to Seattle and your bosses betray your loyalty down the road, causing you to have to come back to SA? Yes. Could you go and everything works out fantastically? Yes. 

 

Could you stay in SA and the country subsequently gets back on a better path? Maybe... These and more questions cannot be conclusively answered and the risk of loss of some sort is inherent in the pursuit of reward.

 

There are questions that can be answered with certainty. Like will you feel frustration and doubt at several junctures along the way to either the US or Australia? Yes, but then these are distractions to the real issue for you.

 

What's also at play for you is the opportunity cost. You effectively have to choose between three options (Seattle, Australia or your SA opportunity) and sense that by going down one path the other two will likely disappear for good.  Such that if your chosen path doesn't work out you could potentially feel doubly bad down the path for having forsaken the 'right' one. 

 

I'll stick my neck out then. Based on what others have pointed out and what your writings hint at I think the Australia visa expiry is a psychological red herring for you, especially if you already visited here and chose not to exercise the option earlier. You may have been keeping it purely as an escape route in case and only you can answer the question whether you would have exercised it before it expired had these other opportunities or your little girls birth not occurred. Otherwise you may be trying to compare everything now suddenly when it's a case of casting your net too widely. 

 

So I think for you it's the business opportunity versus Seattle, but neither is a given it will work out. That's especially since I think you could get the Oz visa again later on. 

 

Perhaps look at it this way. Will you ever get the US opportunity again or just how likely is it at all? If it's not very likely then it's not real, at least not yet. 

 

If it is, how reliable are they as an employer? Could you cope and recover from the possibility of spending years potentially only to be retrenched and have to leave the US to return to SA? It happened to a friend of mine who lived in Portland - incidentally a city which I absolutely loved when I visited and that actually stresses the work-life balance contrary to the perceived big city US norm. Further, I do disagree strongly with generalisations that the US is a mess. Regions in it the can differ substantially in their character and you need to find out just what Seattle is about for you personally and on highly specific facts than other people's perceptions or feelings.

 

If you then realise Seattle is not for you then maybe bring the Australian option back to the table. 

 

I am not putting down Australia in any way. We're here in Brisbane and although there are things I miss and there have been hard times I do still think it is the better choice for us. The thing is in your case, can your immediate family cope with an overseas move at all? Can you cope with uncertainty and sacrifice at the risk of loss? Seattle will also have similar challenges as moving to Australia would

 

One thing to consider is that if you get Oz citizenship there is an E3 visa to work in the US for at least two years undisturbed, that SA will never have. Some people literally drive to Canada for a few days holiday when their E3 visa expires, get stamped in and out and then refresh their E3 visa. 

 

As for the SA business opportunity. I don't know enough to comment on it but do consider its worth versus future costs. Like for example how sending your daughter to an Oz University from SA will cost you up to million Rand in today's money for an ordinary BCom. Especially as SA universities are all falling down the QS rankings on a trajectory to the degraded worth of a current Zimbabwean qualification. That's versus earning Oz $ and paying maybe AU$30k, where it makes more sense/cents. And what about private schooling, never mind the deteriorating economy/social situation.

Edited October 29, 2017 by WayneAndMel
Vague wording

[RedPanda]

Honestly? Just leave RSA.

Choose your destination wisely, based on what you know about the places and what you know about the things that really, genuinely make you happy. It doesn't matter what we think about Australians or Americans, or the state of the economies. What do you want and where are you most likely to get it?


Our 5c
We are happy in Australia because we took a real careful look at it, and then we sat down and evaluated what we honestly want:
We want our surroundings to feel somewhat familiar. You have no idea how well 'bloekombome' manage this. Australia looks and feels familiar in a way that no place in Europe does. It just feels like you moved to a town in South Africa that you haven't been to yet.
We understand the language, so even though we have an accent we can be understood and we can express ourselves well. This helps a lot with integration.

Speaking of which, Australia has a culture that is very similar to South Africans, if a lot softer around the edges. It's easy to 'get' these people.

We came over on PR, so from Day 1 we knew this was not 'maybe' it was permanent.
We like safe communities. In our suburb primary school children walk themselves the few blocks to school, no adult in sight, until they get to the traffic lights, then the school crossing lady helps them safely across. I can just put my tekkies on and walk out my front door and spend the next 10km walking in fern gully forest, beautifully maintained, totally safe. If I wanted to I could go walking after sunset, just take a torch.
We have the convenience of access to all the products that are 'cool'. Even in the far eastern suburbs we have the odd resident Tesla. And with globally acceptable salaries we can afford imported tech. And even if it isn't here yet, the major companies all ship to Aus. That's us sorted as happy little consumers  
The Australians also take care of their natural environment and respect it way more than any other people I have encountered so far. When hiking "leave only footprints, take only photographs".

The thing is, if you want to be special, out earn, out perform, exceed... Australia is not the place for you. Chances are American culture will be more rewarding. I don't mean this in a nasty way, I literally mean Australian culture/society is very flat, and they like it that way. It's ok to do well, but not too well (cue tall poppy sindrome here). Some South Africans don't do well with this, because the successful ones tend to be really driven. So think about it carefully, and talk to some more people.

Anyway, at the end of the day only you will know what your heart desires. [But seriously, South Africa does not have a shining future. If you stay there it will only be a matter of time until your daughter encounters crime/violence in some form. Get out.]

Edited October 30, 2017 by RedPanda

[Samie]

Hie @RedPanda just a little bit off topic, I saw you mentioned Fern Gully, just wondering if it's the same with Ferntree Gully in Melbourne. If it is, we are looking at settling there. We are a young family of 3 and we will be looking at renting a place there, just want to know if this suburb will do in terms of affordability, schools, public transport to Mulgrave. We have a rough idea, but some input from someone who is already there would be good. In SA we are in the Fourways area and we love it. We are looking for something similar, or close to. We land this Nov.

 

Thanks

[SimpleSimon]

I would encourage @MichaelvdBerg to stay in South Africa. Both Australia and USA are highly competitive societies and I have seen many highly successful achievers in South Africa not make the grade here or USA although there are exceptions. There is much less competition in South Africa as Australia in particular has a highly skilled knowledgeable workforce operating in global markets.

 

If you are torn before you come, rather stay and enjoy what you have there even if it may be risky. With risk comes rewards. Immigration takes total commitment and a fresh open mind with a thirst for adventure. You need a solid reason to swop the ultracheap mansion, domestic help and easy money for a much more modest lifestyle. Otherwise you will constantly be saying “when we” and bemoaning your now reduced lifestyle. 

[RedPanda]

@Samie sent you a loooong PM  

[MichaelvdBerg]

Thank you everyone for the replies and advice. It is much appreciated.

 

Just some more info for some people who have asked. My employer is thankfully not one of those use and abuse types. There are plenty of Saffas in Seattle and the CEO is an old Linden Hoërskool guy with very strong values. On the risk of going to the US, I can say that yes, I would be bound to the company, but it is really a good company to be bound to in effect.

I have indeed been to Aus and whilst it was ok, I was in a different state of my life being a bachelor and didn't have the same priorities as I have now. I stayed in Bris-vegas and would most likely return there if I ever do.

I've only been in Seattle for a month and to be honest, their weather sucks but damn the place is beautiful. The people there are surrounded by stunning forests and the Muricans there are actually quite active as opposed to what you'd think about typical US.

 

In contradiction to what SimpleSimon (not calling you out though) and others may think, I can actually live a more humble lifestyle as I had in Aussie a while back and it wasn't actually all that bad. I grew up poor so it is just a matter of adapting for me/us. The one thing RedPanda mentioned about being driven in our carreers and achieving etc is quite how I am. I am in IT and have always been extremely competitive and I do keep myself up to date with the latest tech knowledge, certifications and trends. That is a must in my position as it is especially since we have serious international competition. 

 

My opportunity here is not really a mere salary, that is what makes it tough. This is more like a partnership with people that I trust. People that I know don't change when money is around (I've known then before). They somehow manage to hit contract after contract both here and partially overseas worth millions and want me to build a core competency for them. Whilst it will come with a good salary, the pay-off is years down the line where one might very well be able to leave on one of those visas for starting a business...that is the goal as all involved have children of their own.

 

Another advantage of staying is that my daughter can get to know her family when growing up, at least until we can go at a later stage. Question is...how long is SA going to survive. (Damn I wish I was an economist)

 

So that is the missing details some of you may wonder..that is also why it is so damn hard. My priority is my newborn baby girl and it feels like I can immediately settle her future by going to the US although I am taking her away from her family without even getting to know them. The alternative is something that may not work out...

 

A friend suggested that I try to alleviate the risk by applying for an extension on my 175 or Resident Return visa but I am not sure whether I would be able to qualify giving my reasons as is.

Edited October 31, 2017 by MichaelvdBerg

[TamTam]

Super confused about your timeline - if your 175 was granted in 2008 and the visa allows you to travel to and from Australia for five years from the date the visa is granted (after that time, you will need a resident return visa or another visa to return to Australia). Do you already have a resident return visa / other visa?

 

To me it sounds like you don't want to move to Oz and the visa is just complicating your decision making. In light of creating a safe environment for your daughter, go for the Seattle option.

 

PS - what does your wife/gf/partner/mother to your daughter want - let's not forget about that in all of this.

Edited October 31, 2017 by TamTam

[MichaelvdBerg]

1 minute ago, TamTam said:

Super confused about your timeline - if your 175 was granted in 2008 and the visa allows you to travel to and from Australia for five years from the date the visa is granted (after that time, you will need a resident return visa or another visa to return to Australia). Do you already have a resident return visa / other visa?

 

To me it sounds like you don't want to move to Oz and the visa is just complicating your decision making. In light of creating a safe environment for your daughter, go for the Seattle option.

 

PS - what does your wife/gf/partner/mother to your daughter want - let's not forget about that in all of this.

The timeline was way back when I moved on a 457 just to check things out. I got the 175 in 2013. My wife supports me but as all good mothers say, the baby is the priority.