Donovan83 Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 I'm back visiting Johannesburg for the Christmas holidays. As much as we all know the problems here, one thing Joburg has is a great climate. Every day here it's been more or less the same weather, and at the very least it's been the same season from one day to the next. No freezing winds, no sudden cool changes, no bleakness just blissful warm sunny days with golden sunshine. So my other half and I have decided to 'f off' from Melbourne, mainly because I can't handle the climate. If job opportunities weren't really a major consideration then we'd both jump on a plane to Perth in a heartbeat. Unfortunately the economy there isn't looking like it's in good shape, both the general feel of job availability and also from anecdotal evidence looking at some friends over there in similar occupations. So we're considering whether we might give Sydney a go. My main question is how the climate compares between the two cities, and I it'd be really nice if I could get some experiences of other people who have lived in both Sydney and Melbourne. I'll go to Sydney for a visit before moving, but there's only so much you can experience or gauge from a place on a visit (hence my huge mistake of moving to Melbs). How does it compare in terms of sunshine? Is it possible to more consistently lead an outdoor lifestyle? Are there nice beaches near the city? Are there nice places to cycle (especially cycle paths)? Living in Sydney, have you ever felt like you just needed to escape to go somewhere with some sun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarinWise Posted December 25, 2015 Report Share Posted December 25, 2015 Hi Donovan, Merry Christmas...... You must be loving the JHB climate...... As you know, I am also not a fan of the Melbourne climate, (amongst other things), and altough I have never lived in Sydney, I have visited there on many occasions-and let's face it-it can only be better than Melbourne. I consider Sydney one of the most beautiful cities in the world, and it never fails to "Wow" me.The climate is way, way better, and there is " Eye Candy" everywhere. Get there asap......Just think of last winter here in Melbourne, and wheel spin out of here as fast as you can. Can you really see yourself going through another winter here? Think about that......it's horrible! Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreshStart Posted December 26, 2015 Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 (edited) If it's any consolation, we've just entered VIC from NSW, just under 3-hours till we hit Melbourne and are going, what just happened? Yesterday we left 30 degree sun in Syndey and it's now pouring and 20 degrees and can barely see the sun or roads at this point. Apparently it's 14 in Melbourne now, 27 back in Sydney with a quick rain shower predicted between 1-3pm. Visiting Melbourne for the first time for a few days, still looking forward to it, but looking ahead it seems we need to be carrying coats/jumpers as the climate changes throughout the day. In Sydney 90% of the year I live in a Tee, shorts and thongs, my only other shoes are a pair of trainers (which I've worn once) and converse sneakers, which have had a bit more use with jeans at night, but 90% of the time, thongs. The climate is much like our native Cape Town, in summer you get the four seasons with the odd thunder storm/shower, but they clear quickly, though April was a little more rainy. We spend our free time outdoors, use the local swimming pool and beaches, from the City it's 15mins to Redleaf and 20mins to Bondi and 30mins to the Eastern Suburbs beaches like Shark Beach/Nielsen Park, Watsons Bay & Parsely Bay, all favourites. Cycleways connect the city and I can use decdicated lanes and be in the CBD in 12mins and ride up Bourke St from Waterloo to the Botanical Gardens in 20mins, or do a lap of Centennial Park, which is 10mins away. Not sure that helps, by Sydneylife for us is mainly spent outdoors and in total comfort: I can count on 1 hand the times I've needed a jacket over the past year. Cheers Matt Edited December 26, 2015 by AFreshStart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donovan83 Posted December 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2015 (edited) On 25/12/2015 at 8:29 AM, KarinWise said: Can you really see yourself going through another winter here? Think about that......it's horrible! It's not so much the bad winter.. winter is cold anywhere. It's the lack of a compensating good summer. Or a summer at all... yes I know it has been going up to 41 degrees lately, but it's still this sickly weird heat that soon goes back to being 16. 22 hours ago, AFreshStart said: In Sydney 90% of the year I live in a Tee, shorts and thongs, This is all that I want. I hate having to constantly be bracing for cold winds! It does also appear that Sydney has a higher number of sunny days than Melbourne. Would you say the sky is clear on more days than not when you wake up? That's something that has been particularly difficult to deal with down in Melbs, almost every single morning is overcast. I love waking up to a clear, minimally clouded sky. Edited December 26, 2015 by Mara Language Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreshStart Posted December 27, 2015 Report Share Posted December 27, 2015 Yip, most days we wake to clear blue skies. I've noticed that about Melbourne in our short time here. Yesterday morning it was bright/sunny, by 9am it was grey and the breeze had quite a chill, by 1-2pm it was sunny again, it's constantly changing. As a result we all look like lobsters, having skipped the sunscreen (spending all day outside), something we almost never do in Sydney, but enjoying being a bit sun kissed, total holiday vibes. While I have travelled to over 80 cities, lived in London, NYC and a few other places I enjoy both hot and cold climates, but have come to really enjoy the sun. Our first home in Sydney was an old terrace, which are notorious for having little natural sunlight and it really effected me for the first time, spent almost $400 in daylight LED lamps to make it feel better. Our apartment on the other hand is flooded with light. I open the roller blinds wide and just love the light and warmth it brings and am so much happier and energized because of it. All this to say, while the climate is great, where you live also affects things as well. Cheers Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 I was born in the North of England where your lucky to get 2 weeks a sun a year. Its always raining and grey and in winter can get to -8. I have also lived in Durban for 11 years where for the first year I was here I used to be in bed for 8 because I was so exhausted. The humidity here is horrendous and I have struggled with this type of weather. I actually prefer the cold over heat anyday because aslong as your prepared for the cold its fine, with hot weather there's not much you can do and only so many clothes you can take off. Having only been in Melbourne for 2 months we have yet to experience a winter there. It cant be as bad as the UK though. After being in Durban for 3 weeks over the Dec period I'm looking forward to getting back home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellfish Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) I know you didn't ask for opinions other than climate but I will say that I think the similarities between Sydney and Perth begin and end with sunshine. Sydney, lovely as it is to look at, is a big, crowded, expensive city with very mediocre public transport - from what I understand, day to day living is very full on, not 'easy' like Perth or even Melbourne, to a degree. I would look at Brisbane before moving to Sydney personally. I think Q'sland is stunning although admitted I have not been there in the summer Ironically, my husband has a job ready and waiting for him in Perth but we a few things to sort out before going - sell our house and get a school place for our children (we are on a waiting list and I keep hearing that people are leaving Perth but you could have fooled me..). I am concerned that the oppressive heat is going to be too much for my husband - he loves the Melbourne winters. Edited December 28, 2015 by Shellfish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreshStart Posted December 28, 2015 Report Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) Shellfish, Have you used public transport in both Melbourne and Sydney? I must say we've loved using the trams here in Melbourne, but cannot for the life of me understand why Melbourne has STILL not handed over the timetables to Google Maps, the ONLY capital center, it's so frustrating! Yes, we know and use the PTV app, but the maps don't show routes just A and B and don't do a particularly great job of linking things together in the way Google Maps does. Sydney lacks trams, but more bus routes, trains and of course the most scenic way to travel, Ferries. We use public transport daily and have found it to work like clockwork, sure in rush hour buses might be full or late, but come past our place into town every 5-10mins in peak time. More people own and drive cars here in Melbourne, as demonstrated by your 4-5 lane highways. What we have found about Melbourne is everything is so spread out, 30-40mins to the beach from the CBD, and sorry to say, Syndey beaches kill Melbourne's, all 100+ of them. Even getting from one side of the CBD to the other, whereas Sydney is close, call it dense, but oh so convenient. Sydney clocks in 107 clear days a year vs Melbourne's 46, and don't have this 4-seasons in a day that's we've now experienced first hand, nit sure how this compares to Perth or Brisbane, but of course neither of those are finance hubs in the way Sydney & Melbourne are, and the industry that my wife and Donovan83 are in. Don't get me wrong, Melbourne is lovely, the culture/arts, architecture, food scene and it's certainly more laid back and less built up than Sydney. But given the choice, and both were open to us, we chose Syndey and continue to for the lifestyle, pace (work hard/play hard attitude), beaches, scenery and landmarks, clocking in more than double the annual visitors, even though Melbourne seems to be set to overtake Sydney population wise by 2050. Cheers Matt Edited December 28, 2015 by AFreshStart 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibella Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 What are you still on about the weather Donovan! Can you actually seriously tell me that after 3-4 very hot 40 degree Melbourne days you don't crave the cool change? That's what I love about Melbourne summers - tomorrow 36 - next day 40 degrees (not hot enough?) then a cool change comes and it goes down to 30 and some rain the next day. Wouldn't have it any other way. Can't stand the constant heat. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 I'm with you on this one Sibella :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Posted December 29, 2015 Report Share Posted December 29, 2015 I am with you too, Sibella! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellfish Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 On 12/28/2015 at 8:02 PM, AFreshStart said: Shellfish, Have you used public transport in both Melbourne and Sydney? I must say we've loved using the trams here in Melbourne, but cannot for the life of me understand why Melbourne has STILL not handed over the timetables to Google Maps, the ONLY capital center, it's so frustrating! Yes, we know and use the PTV app, but the maps don't show routes just A and B and don't do a particularly great job of linking things together in the way Google Maps does. Sydney lacks trams, but more bus routes, trains and of course the most scenic way to travel, Ferries. We use public transport daily and have found it to work like clockwork, sure in rush hour buses might be full or late, but come past our place into town every 5-10mins in peak time. More people own and drive cars here in Melbourne, as demonstrated by your 4-5 lane highways. What we have found about Melbourne is everything is so spread out, 30-40mins to the beach from the CBD, and sorry to say, Syndey beaches kill Melbourne's, all 100+ of them. Even getting from one side of the CBD to the other, whereas Sydney is close, call it dense, but oh so convenient. Sydney clocks in 107 clear days a year vs Melbourne's 46, and don't have this 4-seasons in a day that's we've now experienced first hand, nit sure how this compares to Perth or Brisbane, but of course neither of those are finance hubs in the way Sydney & Melbourne are, and the industry that my wife and Donovan83 are in. Don't get me wrong, Melbourne is lovely, the culture/arts, architecture, food scene and it's certainly more laid back and less built up than Sydney. But given the choice, and both were open to us, we chose Syndey and continue to for the lifestyle, pace (work hard/play hard attitude), beaches, scenery and landmarks, clocking in more than double the annual visitors, even though Melbourne seems to be set to overtake Sydney population wise by 2050. Cheers Matt Matt, I don't disagree that Sydney has a greater 'wow' factor - I couldn't disagree more about the lifestyle factor, sorry. We own a house in a blue chip suburb in a house with a decent garden (essential for us) less than 10ks from the city. My husband drives to work in 45 minutes and my children go to a very good school. If you replicated our budget in Sydney - for a house with a garden we'd be 30ks from the city, in a very mediocre suburb travelling three hours on public transport and we'd both be working full time to earn the money for this 'lifestyle' - my children would be in after school care at a mediocre school. Our lives are very much about day to day drudgery and family commitments of school, work, swimming lessons, play dates, sports etc Beaches. scenery and landmarks aren't day to day life - they are 'nice to haves' IMO. Anyway - there is no reality only perception as they say... My comparison wasn't actually between Melbourne and Sydney, it was Sydney and Perth. Donovan has been clear that he doesn't want to stay in Melbourne and I respect that. Just based on things I have read previously he doesn't sound like a 'rat race' kind of guy and based on my experience (and perception) Sydney is a rat race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellfish Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 On 12/28/2015 at 8:02 PM, AFreshStart said: Shellfish, Have you used public transport in both Melbourne and Sydney? I must say we've loved using the trams here in Melbourne, but cannot for the life of me understand why Melbourne has STILL not handed over the timetables to Google Maps, the ONLY capital center, it's so frustrating! Yes, we know and use the PTV app, but the maps don't show routes just A and B and don't do a particularly great job of linking things together in the way Google Maps does. Sydney lacks trams, but more bus routes, trains and of course the most scenic way to travel, Ferries. We use public transport daily and have found it to work like clockwork, sure in rush hour buses might be full or late, but come past our place into town every 5-10mins in peak time. More people own and drive cars here in Melbourne, as demonstrated by your 4-5 lane highways. What we have found about Melbourne is everything is so spread out, 30-40mins to the beach from the CBD, and sorry to say, Syndey beaches kill Melbourne's, all 100+ of them. Even getting from one side of the CBD to the other, whereas Sydney is close, call it dense, but oh so convenient. Sydney clocks in 107 clear days a year vs Melbourne's 46, and don't have this 4-seasons in a day that's we've now experienced first hand, nit sure how this compares to Perth or Brisbane, but of course neither of those are finance hubs in the way Sydney & Melbourne are, and the industry that my wife and Donovan83 are in. Don't get me wrong, Melbourne is lovely, the culture/arts, architecture, food scene and it's certainly more laid back and less built up than Sydney. But given the choice, and both were open to us, we chose Syndey and continue to for the lifestyle, pace (work hard/play hard attitude), beaches, scenery and landmarks, clocking in more than double the annual visitors, even though Melbourne seems to be set to overtake Sydney population wise by 2050. Cheers Matt Matt, I don't disagree that Sydney has a greater 'wow' factor - I couldn't disagree more about the lifestyle factor, sorry. We own a house in a blue chip suburb in a house with a decent garden (essential for us) less than 10ks from the city. My husband drives to work in 45 minutes and my children go to a very good school. If you replicated our budget in Sydney - for a house with a garden we'd be 30ks from the city, in a very mediocre suburb travelling three hours on public transport and we'd both be working full time to earn the money for this 'lifestyle' - my children would be in after school care at a mediocre school. Our lives are very much about day to day drudgery and family commitments of school, work, swimming lessons, play dates, sports etc Beaches. scenery and landmarks aren't day to day life - they are 'nice to haves' IMO. Anyway - there is no reality only perception as they say... My comparison wasn't actually between Melbourne and Sydney, it was Sydney and Perth. Donovan has been clear that he doesn't want to stay in Melbourne and I respect that. Just based on things I have read previously he doesn't sound like a 'rat race' kind of guy and based on my experience (and perception) Sydney is a rat race. Oh yes - and if you'd care to compare Melbourne and Sydney's weather for the next two weeks I know where I'd rather be... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donovan83 Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 6 hours ago, Shellfish said: My comparison wasn't actually between Melbourne and Sydney, it was Sydney and Perth. Donovan has been clear that he doesn't want to stay in Melbourne and I respect that. Just based on things I have read previously he doesn't sound like a 'rat race' kind of guy and based on my experience (and perception) Sydney is a rat race. You know me too well, Shellfish Yes, I am not a rat race kind of person. I value things other than the whole "be busy all the time with things to do" mentality - don't get me wrong, I like being active and having a life that is active, but I value things like outdoorsy activities or maybe having a job that contributes to society somehow. While still putting food on the table, of course. Big cities definitely have a lower quality of life for me than smaller ones. The issue is that my other half loves the rat race (or can't see past it)... so one compromise might be to go to Sydney. There's a potential job for me that I could do from anywhere in Aus, which means I'd hopefully be a bit insulated from the rat raceyness of Sydney, while still keeping the relationship and getting my outdoor lifestyle. I think it's because I grew up in a rat race. My life in Joburg from when I was old enough to remember was basically - work for 48/49 weeks a year, be busy, sit in traffic. Things to do were mainly centred around spending money or eating - movies, restaurants, shopping and casinos. Then for a few glorious weeks every year, escape to the coast where you can enjoy the things that actually make you happy. Wash, rinse, repeat, every single year until you die. Somehow I have accidentally rebuilt that same life in Melbourne, after experiencing a happier life somewhere else. I am sure something can be figured out though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elleneo Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I lived in Melbourne for 3 years and now 3 years is Sydney. Weather wise Sydney is way, waaaaaaaaaaay better than Melbourne, if outdoors lifestyle, beaches etc is what u want, braai get outside, at night, 9 months of the year is your thing, Sydney is for you. Yes, Sydney is "busy" but we live in a "blue-chip suburb," 10km from the cbd, husband commutes 30 minutes by train to Chatswood ( that's door to door and he walks to the stations) my daughter is in private school, I hardly ever work. Life is good. I definitely don't feel like I'm in a rat race when I'm driving around to ballet school and shopping, but that may be perception , I understand how initially Sydney is a bit intimating at the start, but more so for people from small towns, jhb,cpt people will be fine. melbourne captures your heart for the culture, the food, the colourful people, but say what u want, the weather is far more temperate in Sydney. Sydney captures your heart for its beauty, diversity, opportunities and great beaches and the weather to go with it.. I'm speaking from 3 years experience in both cities. I love Melbourne but I'd struggle to move back there now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donovan83 Posted December 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 20 hours ago, Sibella said: Can you actually seriously tell me that after 3-4 very hot 40 degree Melbourne days you don't crave the cool change? Not at all - not even slightly. The cool change irritates and frustrates me because it goes from nice warm summery outdoor weather, to freezing cold. For me, I get so desperate in Winter. I've always wondered - why is there no "warm change" in winter? In summer we get a handful of hot days, with a cool change down to near winter temperatures around once a week. Why is there no reverse in winter - it gets to a point where it's never, ever above a high of 15. The average temperature is usually around 8. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RYLC Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I agree that Melbourne is too temperamental weather wise. I attend multiple conferences around Australia each year. One of my favourites was in Melbourne for the first time ever (it's usually in Sydney) during August. I gave it a skip. They had so many complaints about the choice of venue regarding weather that next year it is in Brisbane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreshStart Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Honestly, I don't get the whole "rat race" mentality that's attributed to Sydney, or rather what that means/looks like for you? We live less than 4kms from the City, can catch a bus and in be in the CBD in 8-10 minutes. Yes it's the City, it has a pulse and pace, is built up, but hardly feels like a "rat race" to us. My wife works fewer hours than she did in SA, typically 8.30 to 5.30, is home for both breakfast and dinner and early enough to walk to one of the 3 local parks with the kids, grab an ice cream or unwind with a coffee or glass of wine. We are able to live off a single income, own a home, kids are at great schools and day cares etc. I love cycling as mentioned above. On my days off I cycle into the city and read a book on the lawn of one of the parks in Ultimo before getting ramen and grabbing a coffee and visiting my favourite bookstore. The kids and I hit the cycle track once or twice a week at Sydney Park, weekly trips for arts and crafts at the library next door and walk down to Prince Alfred Park on Saturdays for the kids swimming lessons. On weekends we hit the beaches, park or get away, go camping or head up into the Hunter Valley. As I type this we are on a Farmstay in Rural NSW after spending the past week in an old terrace in Prahran (school holidays) experiencing Melbourne. We live simple lives, value experiences over things and don't feel like we are running in a race at all. Cheers Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OubaasDik Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Let's face it, Donovan doesn't like Melbourne for the weather, I dislike Melbourne for other reasons, which I won't elaborate on. I love Canberra, in SPITE of the place being full of politicians. Many others will think it dull or unadventurous. Go to Sydney, Donovan, if you think you'll like it. Personally, I doubt I could find happiness back in Perth due to the climate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellfish Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 3 hours ago, elleneo said: we live in a "blue-chip suburb," 10km from the cbd, husband commutes 30 minutes by train to Chatswood ( that's door to door and he walks to the stations) my daughter is in private school, I hardly ever work. Obviously we live on different budgets, which was kind of my point.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellfish Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 3 hours ago, Donovan83 said: You know me too well, Shellfish I'm pretty perceptive that way I totally agree that Melbourne winters suck - the rest of the seasons, I don't mind. You are missing a hell of a summer though... I hope you manage to sort out a job in Sydney and settle in well - I reckon you've paid your dues... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendanH Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 2 hours ago, OubaasDik said: I love Canberra, in SPITE of the place being full of politicians. Now this is exactly what I want to hear Can't wait to land in a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozellem Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 I agree with Matt, I cant really see what some people find so rat racy about Sydney. And dont even start with some who liken it to Jhb! Crazy talk, I tell ya. I have always thought that signing up to the "rat race" is a voluntary act that you choose or you dont. If you are that way inclinded, you will subscribe to the race, even if you live in the sticks and have only two people to race against. Sydney, given its obvious size, just gives you more opportunities to compete against others. We live a very chilled life here. My husband gets up at 6:30, makes breakfast, gets ready for work and leaves at 7:15. He is back for dinner at 6pm with the family. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreshStart Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) 9 hours ago, Shellfish said: Obviously we live on different budgets, which was kind of my point.... Shellfish, Trying hard to see your point then in this thread about Sydney vs Melbourne climate, which seems to have turned into a "I can't replicated my life in Sydney because it's too expensive" thread with a lot of hearsay, like mediocre transport and it being a rat race, "from what you understand". Elleneo is the only one who has answered this post with substantial experience, living in both cities and I resonate with her Sydney experience as a fellow Sydneysider, albeit we've only limited knowledge, holidaying in Melbourne, but my brief review above seems to be inline with hers. For some (like yourself it seems) it might be harder, you might have to live further away, compromise on space, you might have to work harder to afford to live in Sydney, but then again salaries here are generally higher as well to offset some of the added expense and many Sydneysiders do it. Donovan83 on the other hand is upwardly mobile, has no commitments, no mortgage repayments, no children and considering he's referred to them as "dream killers" in the past, not sure he is planning on having any soon, so his situation/budget is also vastly different to yours as well. Both cities are beautiful, each have pros and cons and as Sydneysiders I think Elleneo and I have given a good idea of what one can expect of outdoor life and the weather, which is what Donovan83 was asking about as well as debunking the transport myth. I have shared that we quite enjoy an active outdoor lifestyle, despite living in a so called "rat race", so not sure we can add much more to that. Cheers Matt Edited December 30, 2015 by AFreshStart 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellfish Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) 4 hours ago, AFreshStart said: Shellfish, Elleneo is the only one who has answered this post with substantial experience, living in both cities But not Perth (unless she's chosen not to mention it), which if you recall way back when was the purpose of my post - Syd VS Perth. Perth which, btw, has an average salary of 10k more than Sydney but I'm sure that doesn't matter given that apparently income and cost of living has no bearing on lifestyle. Do me a favour and take a drive through the city centre of Sydney at 1 in the afternoon and then do the same in Perth...then let's talk about rat race...(I have done both, btw) Edited December 31, 2015 by Shellfish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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