OubaasDik Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Wow. This is a read and a half, including the comments!http://www.harshcritic.com.au/2012/melbourne-is-the-shittest-city-on-earth/That's hilarious, and the man has a point Any city that can charge $13 for 15 mins parking deserves to be nuked Now Adelaide - lovely place ...... Edited January 8, 2015 by OubaasDik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXB2OZ Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 One of the things that struck us was having to explain to our children what they should do of someone stuck a gun to the head of one of us.No parent should ever have to have that conversation. Between ourselves, we had to discuss what to do if one of us had a gun stuck to our head.No couple should ever have to have that conversation.I don't think South Africans realise how much of that constant vigilance of surroundings spills over into their everyday lives and emotional "stance". South Africans have a reputation for being aggressive and it is so accurate! But it is a survival mechanism. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouiseMark Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Wow! This thread has given me lots to think about, I too had similar worries. We live in the northern suburbs of Cape Town and have an excellent government school in our area but over the past 2 months our suburb has been hit by a terrible wave of crime. Yes, we both have jobs (hubby earns well and I am a school teacher so my holidays make up for my salary ). We both own a car and we own a house. Hubby will NOT get the same salary in Oz. It is going to be tough and age is not on our side. But we are doing it for our children and their future as well as a safer future for us in our golden years hopefully.We, too, have had thoughts of "have we left it too late in our lives" but i guess we will never know what might have been all we can do it move forward and see what will be!I have been told that nowhere is as beautiful as Cape Town, and I do agree to a point. We have travelled far and wide and everywhere has it's special little something.(Sydney was my favourite!)It all comes down to attitude and determination and appreciating the blessing we have in being afforded the opportunity to try another country. Many many people can't.We are awaiting our PR approval once our medicals are done on Friday. (Had to give the credit card chance to breathe after visa payment! ) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4viljoens Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 In2Minds, we are in the same boat... I am also doubting our decision the closer we get to actually making the big move.. My husband was recently asked to step up as GM in his company... he declined it as he handed in his resignation to pursue our move to Australia. He will be flying out to Brisbane on the 5th of March... jobless... We (me and 2 kids) will stay here for 2 months just till he finds his feet and hopefully a job. I am also giving up a well paid job in a company I love, as Senior Accountant.... On Friday I got really discouraged when I asked some advice on the Facebook Page Jobs for SA's in Australia... most people gave really good advice and encouraging words but there was this one lady that kept saying I will wash windows or clean people's houses.... or I should go do gardening..... She sounds really bitter... but she really got to me... I know taking a few steps back is part of the move and adapting to a new life and proving yourself all over again, and I have no issue with that, but going from a senior position to being a cleaner..... that really got me and I started thinking "are we mad!" What have I studied for all my life? All that sacrifice and long hours.. for what?Then I look at my children and think of their future and what is best for them and how I want them to be safe and have a fair chance in life.... and I think that I would wash windows..... I will be unemployed for the first time in my life... I have no idea if I will find a job, cause so many people say you need the Aus experience and Accountants are "overrated"... so why is it still on the SOL? But I am just glad we have this chance and we are taking a BIG leap of faith... All I can say is you are not alone in this boat and somehow everything always works out in the end... Good Luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2mindsNoMore Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Hi 4viljoensThanks for your encouraging words and good wishes. You know I think there are probably more people in the same boat that we are in than we actually realize. We will just have to lean on each other and support each other. Good luck to you too! I hope your hubby finds a job in no time.Btw I also have a friend who the moment she heard that we are thinking of migrating to Australia told me that she knows people who went over and that the wife is now cleaning houses for a living. Not very nice to hear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermoose Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Guys, this raises an interesting point of discussion. I think most people who emigrate fall into one of two camps:Group 1: Wait until finding a job before moving overGroup 2: Move over and then look for workI have to say that I'm firmly group 1. I don't have the resources (or inclination, to be honest) to make group 2 work for me. I obviously understand that this may make things more difficult, or take longer, or require me to fly over for interviews at my expense (if these are really necessary, I'll plan to do this as part of my visa activation trip), but in the era of Skype, there's no absolute reason for to be meeting in person (other than a prospective employer insisting on it - but most people would be reasonable, I would imagine). I know someone who's leaving for New Zealand in a few weeks after being sponsored within 7 days - from Skype interview in Cape Town to signing the contract.I'd be interested to know what Group 2's feelings are, and what's causing them not to move over to Group 1. Edited January 12, 2015 by mistermoose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4viljoens Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Mistermoose, my husband has started applying for jobs and networking on LinkedIn like never before, with the hope that he might still get a job offer before he leaves SA. He got a call one morning at 3:20 am from Aus for a job interview, but when he told the lady he is still in SA and can do a Skype interview, she told him that would not work for them..... he needs to be there.... He is meeting with an SA guy from Aus in February who is in the same industry as he is, and hopefully this guy can help him or connect him with the right people. We are still applying every day for jobs and not giving up.He has been a victim of crime too many times (bad luck) and is currently drinking anxiety pills every day..... no one should live like that, and the situation at his current company is not so great.... he does not want to sit around and wait till they start retrenching people, as we have been through that in 2013.... Yes, we are taking a big leap of faith.... In2Minds, are you still in Centurion? We should meet up for coffee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2mindsNoMore Posted January 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 4viljoens, yes we are still in Centurion. Coffee is a great idea! I will pm you my contact details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibella Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Just a point about cleaning houses for a living - here it is not something to look down on, and you can actually earn a lot of money. More than many admin jobs.For instance I've looked at admin jobs which pays about $20 an hour while cleaners get paid around $30 an hour. Just a pity I'm so bad at it...Also jobs at shops like K-Mart, Coles or Woolworths. In South Africa most people I knew would rather be seen dead than working in a grocery store.Here these are coveted jobs, it's good for mothers as you can work the shifts you want so get to work school hours. Things are very different here and you need to keep an open mind.For us we are better off here. I don't work, we have two kids in private school and we bought a house last year. In South Africa I had to work and we could never afford to sent our kids to private schools. We did have newer cars though but have figured out what our priorities are. Edited January 12, 2015 by Sibella 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RYLC Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Spot on Sibella.I know a lawyer who needed to convert her qualification and while doing so she was a cleaner. It suited her perfectly. RSA has so many "social" rules about what we can and can't be seen doing - here you can do whatever you want. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiermelk Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 there's no absolute reason for to be meeting in person (other than a prospective employer insisting on it - but most people would be reasonable, I would imagine).I think employers may have experienced issues with people accepting positions from overseas and then not showing up or running into problems with the move. If you think about it there are extra risks in employing someone from overseas, so I suspect they will only do this if the required skills are not available locally or if you accept a salary way lower than the market. Then to be able to accept a salary lower than the market you need someone to look at your CV and then make that call.We were in Group 3. My wife was going to come over and look for a job and my daughter and I would follow once she had a job. In the end she landed a job from South Africa through a Skype interview, she already resigned and had her ticket booked when she applied which might have helped. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oosie Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Just to tell you about the opportunities here in Aus that would never happen in South Africa. I was always a stay at home mom, then we moved to Aus when I was 48 and my husband 53. I looked after our granddaughter when we arrived in Aus and then our grandson when he was born. Our children who lived in Ballarat then moved to Melbourne and for the first time after 32 years of staying at home I decided to do something to earn some money. Three years ago, I was 51 at that stage I enrolled to do my Certificate III in children services, that will give me the qualification to work in child care and kindergartens. I finished my Cert III in 2012 and start doing relief work in child care, I earn $28 an hour and because I am a casual worker I get a 25% casual loading on the $28, if I work a full week full day I earn $1000 a week. I never thought I will be able to do that at my age. Our daughter in South Africa is a Occupational Therapist and there were times that I have to work for 2 full weeks then I earn more than she would with her qualifications. There are so much opputunities here in Aus, this year I do my diploma in Early Childhood Education and care, I turn 55 this year and feel so good about the future and what I am able to do, if we were still I South Africa I would never be able to do what I am doing now. To top all of that I do not pay a lot for my studies, it is with government financial support. I know how hard it is to adapt, miss our daughter in Pretoria and grandchikdren every day but still know it was the best decision we made. We have lots of friends here in Aus, Aussies and South Africans, you will never be friends with all the South Africans here in Aus but you will know who you can be friends with and who not. All the best with all the decisions, the last thing I can say is you have to make peace with the decision of coming to Aus otherwise it is going to be hard to adapt, but if you know that is what you want to do and work hard at it things will work out even if it is hard at the beginning.Linda 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozellem Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Regarding the "dreaded" prospect of cleaning houses. I know a lady in Sydney who took a cleaning job when they arrived. It gave her a steady stream of Aus $, was flexible around school hours and it got her out of the house and into the community. When, some months later, she did apply for a job that she had the experience and degree for, the boss was very impressed and complimented her for the fact that she got up and actually did something constructive, rather than sit around hoping something would come up in her field. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikej Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Most careers are respected in Australia I know there will be jokes about lawyers, property brokers and car salesmen but this is just a bit of ribbing.A cleaner is just as respected as any one else and it can be reasonably well paid. I know of a couple who started cleaning houses and then got a contract to clean first one of the local Woolies stores and then later 2 more stores. The contract for the one store was for $198000 for the year and they had to supply all the equipment and 2 cleaners every night 6 days a week. They would go in when the store closed and work for about 5 hours or go in early in the morning at about 1am and do the 5 hours. When they got the other contracts they started hiring people to help and now they have quite a good company going.On a slightly different note I was really surprised that Woolworths just gives these people a key and they have access whenever they want. There is no-one there to keep an eye on them in case they steal anything.Many cleaners go from cleaning houses to smaller companies that need someone to go in and vacuum the place, clean the bathrooms and toilets and polish the counter tops (desks and reception area). The rates change a lot and they often get between $30 and $50 and hour depending on the circumstances.I also know a guy who was the General Manager of municipal branch who needed flexibility because of his children. He resigned as GM and became the cleaner. He goes in really early while his wife takes the kids to school. He is done by about 11am and has the rest of the day to sleep and take care of the kids when school is out. I have no idea how is salary was effected but I am sure it must have been a big cut. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RYLC Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Yes MikeJ - some more of the reasons why we love Australia - you can do and be whatever you want to be. No jobs are off limits. In RSA as much as a disadvantaged person would find it hard to be say a doctor or lawyer if he wanted to - likewise an advantaged person can't choose to work in a factory / be a forklift driver etc. By the way, forklift drivers here can earn a decent wage. All these avenues that Saffas won't think of because of the RSA mindset and "what people back home will think". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvluik Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 In2minds & 4viljoens ...I share your concerns completely!!!Keep doubting the decision...when I stop in front of my beautiful home or admire the 180° sea view from our deck, my tummy makes a huge turn and I wonder if giving it all up is gonna be worth it... I think its totally normal --- ud be mad if u wernt --- I mean we're leaving all we know & love for the unknown... almost like walking a plank blindfolded! We all know what we have here, the good and the bad, but its atleast known --- the future in Australia is totally unknown to us, jobs, friends, homes, schools and on & on the list goes --- no matter how much research we've done- we're totally taking the leap of faith into the unknown! Every time I start doubting I just think, Id rather give it a go and come back if it really doesn't work out, instead of staying in SA and for the rest of my life wondering what it would have been like! #the greatest mistake you'll ever make in this life, is continually fearing you'll make one #here's to an adventure!!! Heeeha :-) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2mindsNoMore Posted February 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Well said Mvluik! I would also rather give it a go than look back one day and regretting my decision not to take that leap of faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosFam Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I would like to say this thread has struck a chord with me today. The question if to go or stay is a large one, with life changing implications that we cant even begin to understand on emotional level until we begin to move on with our plans that will take us to another world. I sit, with a PR visa for myself and my family expiring in a little over 4 months, after having been in Oz for a year in 2012 and returning after a year that was difficult for so many reasons. We came back because of self preservation, or what we thought was self preservation. As the plane touched down at OR Tambo we knew this wasn't what we wanted, what we had planned. Fast forward to today, we have been treading water here for a year in the hope we would gain back some of the lost confidence and energy to do this again properly. Now is the time, and I am still having doubts about leaving again.My take on it, is that the doubts will always be there , even if they aren't there everyday , they will find you on a bad day. If you want this badly you have to ignore the doubts and fear and move on with your plans as unemotionally as possible. I struggle with this and I have lived there and know what waits ... good and bad.Good luck with your choices... As not for an easy life , but for the strength to deal with a difficult one. I love this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermoose Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Thanks for sharing RosFam. What were some of the main reasons for returning to SA, and what's changed to draw you back to Aus? If you don't mind sharing ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouiseMark Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 @ Rosfam - thanks for sharing.....so nicely put. We all worry...but nice to hear that no matter what you are planning on going back........that has to be good all in itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinky Posted February 7, 2015 Report Share Posted February 7, 2015 Just thought I would put in my 2 cents. My husband is a CA and was a partner at a national firm for 6 years in SA and then ran his own consulting company for 2 years before we came over to Aus last year. He is now an audit manager at a relatively small firm in regional NSW. I am a qualified medical doctor but we have opted for me to be a stay at home mom in Australia. So now we rent a little 3 bedroom house 5 minutes from the beach and have 2 average family cars. We get by just fine and can afford some luxuries, although we do need to watch what we spend. We are definitely not going to live on a acreage with sea views and two brand new bmws parked next to our boat in the driveway. Life is harder here, no doubt, but it is so much better in the same breath. The freedom here is something money cannot buy. There are so many stay at home parents here too. Most people are middle class. The garbage collectors are treated with respect and many women do clean houses for some extra money. It is a wonderful life. Harder, most definitely, but so much better. My advice would be to weigh up what is important to you and if that is the beachfront property and latest model merc, there is no shame in that. But that life is not very likely here for most people, CAs and doctors included. For us, this is enough. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmNew Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 @ Splinky - thank you for your 2 cents. So happy to see that you have embraced your new lifestyle, which sadly most South Africans would see as a step down. I feel that Saffers place far too much value on what cars are in the garage, what we do for a living ( along with the perception that white collar professionals are somehow better human beings than their blue collar counterparts ), how many reception rooms our houses have etc. Perhaps it's just another defence mechanism to cope with the other factors we face on a daily basis? Not sure, but I for one don't like how status is measured here in SA.......We are 2 professionals who are actually relishing the idea of downsizing, not worrying about what car we rock up at work in ( if we even have one at all in Oz) , and starting again, whilst embracing a simpler,more wholesome lifestyle. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2mindsNoMore Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 @ EmNew I agree with you completely. In SA when you meet someone new on a social level, the question of what you do and where you live usually comes up very quickly in the conversation and you are also judged on what clothes you wear and what car you drive. It is a very superficial lifestyle. I am tired of this type of life and I am looking forward to a life where you focus on the things that really matter like your family, the very special time you spend with your children and your personal and spiritual wellbeing and growth. I am sure people who are not in favour of emigrating will say that you can do the same in SA, you can scale down your lifestyle here and focus on the important things in life, but it is easier said than done and there are other factors that play a role. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinky Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 @EmNew- totally agree. The whole status thing has always gotten to me too. To be honest, this lifestyle has been easy to embrace. We found it liberating to leave behind the social expectations we felt in SA and love being just one of crowd here. The great thing about immigrating is you really get to start fresh. With no financial pressures or commitments on arriving here (no credit cards, car payments, mortgage etc), we could choose to downscale and live on a single income- something that was very unlikely in SA. I might go back to work one day but I love that I have a choice to be home with my kids. All the best to everyone here with these big decisions! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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