In2mindsNoMore Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Today I am having one of those “immigrating to Australia is a mistake” days. I am in a negative frame of mind at the moment and I know things always look rosier when you have had a good nights’ sleep. But that I have not had for the last three nights because my four year old isn’t well and keeping me awake at night. Also if you have to get up in the early hours and you have so many other things on your mind it is very hard to get back to sleep, so the lack of sleep cannot solely be blamed on my darling four year old. We have a good life in SA at the moment. Both the hubby and I have full time jobs with good salaries. However I have to mention that he was out of work last year for four months and it was a struggle to find another job, for the obvious SA reasons. In the current economic climate I think that you have to be very grateful to have a job wherever you are in the world. My travel time to work is maximum 40 minutes. My hubby’s travel time is about an hour. We have a beautiful house in a security estate and nice cars. We go on local holidays once, sometimes even twice a year. We are able to afford private schooling for our kids. We have a great support structure, which as a working mom I rely on heavily. And the most important is that our kids spend time with their grandparents and their cousins regularly. My husband comes from a large family, my children have many cousins and they love spending time with them.We received our PR in November last year. We applied because we are worried about the future of SA. But who knows what will happen in SA in future, who has a crystal ball to look into? If we move to Australia we would have to go to Sydney because that is where the jobs are in our line of work. Cost of living in Sydney is extremely high. Both of us will have to have full time jobs. How do you manage in Australia with no support structure when both parents work full time? Our travel time to work will be longer because we will not be able to afford a house closer to where we work. Which will mean that we will get home later in the evenings? How much time will we then have to spend with our children?How do you get your head around resigning from a good job? And then in Australia you have to apply for jobs at a lower level just to get your foot in the door. And then even if we are lucky enough to get jobs, will we be able to work for long enough to build up a pension fund sufficient for when we retire, or will we have to work until we keel over?Will immigrating to Australia be worth all that we are sacrificing? Have we not maybe already missed the boat? The world is a different place to what it was say 8 years ago. Even in Australia people struggle to find work, and that is with Aussie experience which we do not have.Maybe I have romanticised the whole idea too much. It sounds so exciting; we are going on an adventure. Our lives are boring at the moment, the same old same old, day in day out. But what happens when you are there and the reality of it all hits you in the face, what then? Maybe I have to re-think my reasons why I want to immigrate.I am not expecting any answers to all the questions I have, I am just pouring my heart out. I had to get it off my chest and that helps a lot. Thank you for allowing me to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funtobeaussiechick Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Ya its a hard one but and if you have a good life you will struggle that is for sure but, one big but we feels so much safer here. That is what its about. you will have less and struggle for at least 5 years. Sorry some typos in that post. It is NOT easy by all means. What work are you both in ? I will then tell you how much you may earn. If you are used to being top of the food chain it will be hard to adapt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2mindsNoMore Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 No probs We are CA's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) it's not unusual to have doubts.John the Baptist, when he was facing a death sentence, sent his followers to ask Jesus whether he was the real Messiah.Jesus didn't say "yes".That would be tooooo easy. Jesus told them to go back and report what they'd seen and heard . . . . . real life stuff.In my situation, I'm not a Certified Accountant.I was only ever a blue collar worker in my working life.In Australia, I managed to retire at 55.My father was an alcoholic due to his war experiences and left me nothing when he died. I have no rich uncles that left me a fortune, unfortunately, so everything I have I earnt the hard way.I own a 3 hectare property up in the Adelaide Hills, half an hour to the east of Adelaide. It is fully owned and I have no debt.My retirement income stream at 55, as a blue collar worker in Australia, allowed me to travel around Australia for several months which I did for the first five years. Eventually, I tired of seeing just Australia, so I tossed a coin, said to my wife it's either Canada / America or Britain / Europe for a few months each year.We decided on Britain and Europe first.We both love travelling and own our own caravan and car now in Britain and also travel across Europe. Last year, we spent a couple of months travelling around Portugal. Great. This coming year, my wife wants to go to Tuscany for six weeks.I put my three kids thro private school locally.One now owns his own motor garage and earns bucket loads of dough, buying a 30 hectare / 75 acre property last June up in the Adelaide Hills really close to me and Mum. He now lives 40 mins from the city centre of Adelaide and runs cattle and sheep on his property which he plays around on during the weekend.My other kid is a practising dentist, just knocked a job back with Queensland Health to practise up in Cairns this year, earning over a million Rand. She is after a job in British Columbia, Canada for a couple of years, as an adventure for a while. Good on her.If this gives you an impression of what is "do-able" in Australia for a blue collar worker, then I suggest you check it out further, for a practising certified accountant and what is "do-able" in your lifetime, living in Australia.By the way, my security is only a busted down four strand farm fence that a cow could walk thro. Needless to say, we leave our house now unlived in for a few months while we're overseas. Nothing has ever disappeared, or gone astray, if that means anything about the quality of life we live here in South Australia.If my life sounds too good to be true, then perhaps some of the South Africans I've got to know would care to verify my lifestyle, here in Australia.If anyone says that Australia isn't the "Land of Opportunity", then maybe they aren't trying. Edited January 7, 2015 by Bob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeighM Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Any sensible person will weigh the cost versus benefit of emigration carefully, so these feelings are perfectly natural. The prospect of being jobless (after working consistently for 16 years) and needing to fend for my family off our our savings scares the daylights out of me. Having to establish a new network and fitting into a new country and culture is also a very daunting prospect, but I lean on the experiences of all those that have gone before, who tell us it certainly isn't easy but, for the most part, gets better with time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miran Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I would really suggest a LSD to activate your Visa. You have to experience this country to really set your minds at peace. We've been here for a week now, not doubting our decision for a second. You have not missed the boat at all, your visa is in your hands. If you don't at least activate it, you'll regret it forever! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2mindsNoMore Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 @BobI have read a number of your posts and I have to admit your life in Adelaide sounds like paradise to me. We would have loved to move to Adelaide. But we will have to take Mara’s advice and go to where the jobs are. And at this point it looks like we do not have a choice but to go to Sydney. Of all the financial accounting jobs advertised on Seek, some 630, only 15 are in Adelaide and about 50% in Sydney. 630 jobs might sound like a lot of jobs but remember we do not have Aussie experience and in accounting you also need industry specific experience.Because we only really know life in SA, we do not really know the value of what we will be gaining in Aus. And we will only really know that once we live there and experience it. The whole safety and security aspect that you mention is a big thing for us.In SA, especially in Gauteng, the stress levels are very high. And it is not only work related stress, it is stress re. financial security; you might lose your job and you are unsure if you will have another one soon. Stress about you and your family’s safety, which we have tried to minimize as far as possible by living in a security estate. Stress about medical care and retirement. Up to recently we thought we were ok because both us earned good salaries and with that we could afford a good medical aid and managed to save for retirement. But in June last year when my husband resigned from his job and was out of work for four months we suddenly realised that things can change in an instant and then all of a sudden you are not so financially secure any more. It would have just made the decision so much easier if either one of us were guaranteed of a job in Aus before resigning our jobs here.@LeighMclarenWe do not have any other option but to do as you say and lean on the experiences of the people on the forum and also to take that leap of faith that so many of the brave forumites have done so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2mindsNoMore Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 @MiranYes I would have to agree with an LSD trip. We are planning do to that in April, but at the moment I am struggling to fit the timing into our work diaries and to also synchronise that with school holidays.I see your RSA location is Moorreesburg, I am always stunned to see people from the Cape immigrating. For some reason I thought that if you lived in the Cape you would never even think about immigrating. We have friends who lived in Pretoria and moved to Stellenbosch about 5 years ago and absolutely loves it there. And other friends who lived in Bryanston that moved to PE and they are also a lot happier there. However the fact that both husbands have very successful businesses probably helps, who knows. All the best to you, I am very happy to hear that you are not doubting your decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmNew Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Hi In2minds,Yes, Cape Town is visually stunning, and yes, our roads have fewer potholes, and service delivery in certain areas is better than in Gauteng. But the crime , stress and fear faced by most Gautengers is certainly here in Cape Town too......I am an Accountant with my own practice and have clients scattered all over the Peninsula. Some clients I dread going to, as I know they have been held up at gunpoint and robbed, more than once. The behaviour of the motorists on the road is appalling and I am not just talking about taxis... To get to another client I have to pass an area that is hotly contested between bus and taxi drivers, and shots have been fired from one to the other. My sleepy little suburb, 2 streets from my house, in the beautiful Durbanville wine town, was rocked this Monday by gunfire . 5 armed men ( using a hijacked vehicle as a getaway car ) entered a property with the aim of robbing it, and were penned in by police and armed response, thanks to a vigilant neighbour, and a gun fight erupted. My own mother was attacked in her house, also Durbanville, a few years ago. The grass is not greener in Cape Town on that aspect. Job security is also not that rosy.One thing I have noticed over the years, is that you don't realise what we face everyday as South African's until you actually leave the country, albeit on holiday overseas. It then hits you that our life is not normal. You don't realise how much you are constantly on alert for danger, everywhere, from your own home, to the roads, to the workplace. Every aspect of our lives feels under threat in one way or another.Yes, some of us are blessed with good lifestyles / double incomes / german cars in the garage, but I will gladly give all of that up if my PR comes through. Just think, up to fairly recently, people headed off to new countries with NO knowledge whatsoever about their prospects there. No Google to suss out the job market, areas in which to stay etc. Just left their old country behind, with a dream of a better life for them and their loved ones in their hearts and minds. It is a leap of faith initially, and a positive mind set to make it work once on the other side. Perhaps we won't all start out with our lifestyles at the same level as we left them in SA, but a few steps 'backwards' to make giant leaps forwards makes it sound worthwhile to me Edited January 7, 2015 by EmNew 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 In2minds, you say you can only go to Sydney because the jobs are there, how did Melbourne compare? At least Melbourne is cheaper to live in. (For me, it is also nicer, but don't tell anyone!)I know you are really worried, but I think what you need to do is to think back to what RSA was like, say 10 years ago, thimk of how much things have deteriorated since then. Now double or triple that deterioration and move forward 20 years... would you still want to be living there?Life is different in Australia, your children do not have to go to private schools, there are some excellent government schools. If you are prepared to live a simpler lifestyle it may not even be necessary for both of you to work... I know how you feel, at the time that we left 21 years ago, hubby and I were drawing six figure salaries, we owned our own electrical engineering company, we will never be in that position again, but honestly we have learned the value of a simpler life and absolutely love it. In Australia you are not judged by where you live, what you drive, or how you dress... you may well find your neighbour is a plumber, as they earn really well and are always in demand. In our little street where we live, we come from all walks of life, nobody looks down on anyone else and we all look out for each other.We left for our children, both are well educated and earn great salaries, they have never been denied the education of their choice because they were not of the right background. My eldest son did two of his degrees in the RSA, his third in Auckland and now has his own law firm. The youngster did his degree at Auckland University and now holds down a great job in a worldwide company, which he enjoys. Neither had to battle to find jobs.. do you think that will be the same for your children in RSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2mindsNoMore Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Hi EmNewYou are so right, we have gotten so used to our way of life that we do not realise that it is abnormal to live in fear and constantly be under so much stress.And I agree a positive mindset will be key, will have to work on that one a bit . Maybe after I have a good night's sleep again it will be easier.I hope you get that wonderful message that your PR has been granted very soon!Where in Australia are you guys planning to go? And when? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2mindsNoMore Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Hi MaraOf the total number of job vacancies I mentioned, about 20% was in Melbourne, so that is definitely an option I would consider.You mention that in Australia you are "not judged by where you live, what you drive, or how you dress...". That type of attitude really embarrass me the most of us South Africans, that we can be so shallow!!I am more than willing to make sacrifices and to live a simpler life if it would mean that I could work fewer hours and have more time to spend with my kids, that is one of the reasons why I want to immigrate. In SA it is no longer possible to get by on a single income (my opinion) and part-time jobs are non-existent. To me it looked like that it would be possible in Australia. But recently when I did some research on the cost of living in Sydney I got the impression that it might not be that easy. But I will also include Melbourne in my research.Thank you all for giving me some food for thought!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmNew Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 @ Mara - I love the repeated reference to no-one caring about what you do, where you come from , what you drive etc ( I have yet to figure out how to copy/paste direct quotes in replies )@ In2minds - We will most likely head to Melbourne first - with me being an Accountant, Hubby in IT, it does makes sense to start there. It's our first choice regardless of job availability anyway in terms of lifestyle and what city offers. Cannot answer as to the when yet - hopefully within the next 12 months. We're holding thumbs for an invite when current round closes this Friday...... Our current thinking is that we make activation trip and move over in one so if PCC's received Feb, then I guess by Feb 2016 latest we'll be there..... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermoose Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 We're holding thumbs for an invite when current round closes this Friday......How do you know it's closing this Friday? Is this published somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermoose Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Wow. This is a read and a half, including the comments!http://www.harshcritic.com.au/2012/melbourne-is-the-shittest-city-on-earth/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmNew Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) @ mistermoose - yes it is published for 189 and 489 classes of visas on the immi.gov.au website, under Work/Workers/Skillselect/Invitation rounds/next invitation rounds - you can see upcoming dates the rounds close, as well as an overall summary of the results of previous rounds. Under Occupation Ceilings, you can even see the total issued per occupation vs the quota available for the 12 month period ended 30/06/2015Just read your link, mistermoose. Well, yeah, um haters gonna hate, I guess One thing to bear in mind is that most of the commenting trolls would only have another Aus city to compare Melbourne with. I wonder what any of them would think about the average RSA city......moaning about robberies and rape stats - I read the stats for Australia regularly, and yes, it is not crime free, but then where is? I think their hearts would stop if they read ours..... Edited January 7, 2015 by EmNew 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermoose Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Excellent find, thank you EmNew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordy Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 It is always natural to have second thoughts. All of us have at some point or another, to one degree or another. I think the big thing about immigration is that it is not just swapping one country for another with the aim of duplicating your previous life in your new, hopefully better country. Immigration, at least to Australia, is about a complete change of lifestyle. It often means a shift in focus from careers to family, from competing with the Joneses to being satisfied with what you have. I would think that almost every South African migrant would agree that the shift is away from 'self-protection' (you mention security estates) to a life with less stress and fear. That kind of change within oneself is priceless and I honestly dont think you even comprehend the value of it until you have experienced it for yourself. Unfortunately an LSD does not even give you a taste of it as it takes minimum 6 months before the fear starts to dissipate. I will give you an example: when we arrived we went to the beach and as I sat on the beach enjoying my new country, I could tell you in an instant, exactly who was where on the beach, whether they were moving towards me or away from me. I could tell which cars were reversing in the car park some 100 meters away. Basically I was on hyper-alert. This was an automatic function that I wasn't even aware of doing. However for my mind to operate in this heightened state of 'self-protection' I was using an incredible amount of energy: emotional energy, stress, etc.Then about 6 to 8 months later we were sitting on the same beach in Australia, and someone walked close by me, startling me. They were no 'threat' but in that moment I suddenly realised I was no longer on hyper-alert and hadn't been scanning the surroundings vigilantly for possible attackers. There was no longer a need.When someone says they have wonderful life with good paying salaries in South Africa, so why immigrate, I think they have missed the point of coming to Australia. Australia has so much more to offer. Imagine being proud of your country on the international political field, instead of embarressed. Imagine being proud of your Prime Minister instead of cringing at what he gets away with. Imagine a national sense of Fair-go and mateship on a national level. Imagine honouring and holding in high esteem those who served and died in the great wars of the world, fighting against evil and for freedom. Imagine telling your child that they can trust a police officer if they get lost or need help.Australia is so much more! 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2mindsNoMore Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Thanks Jordy, I really appreciate your post. It is exactly what I needed and hoped to read. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansaPlease Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Wow. This is a read and a half, including the comments!http://www.harshcritic.com.au/2012/melbourne-is-the-shittest-city-on-earth/Lol. Somebody's a bit angry. And deluded. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I guess you also have to be realistic.When you leave South Africa, you're leaving behind all that is comfortable, all that is familiar.Now . . . . when you turn up in Australia, there won't be lots of family all waiting at the airport for you. There won't be half a dozen old mates to ease you in to your new life. Nobody is going up to you and offering you a job with a great salary and working conditions.Everything you get, you'll have to work hard for, especially in the first few years of living in Australia.Life will be lonely at first. You'll have feelings of insecurity in not having work when you first arrive and not knowing where to live.But . . . . . if you can rise to the occasion and overcome all these obstacles one by one, one day at a time (as the Bible says), then you have what it takes to make it in Australia.I have learnt that without planning for something, most times it is never achieved.I'm a slow learner. I was in my 50s when I came to that little pearl of wisdom, but I know that if I plan for something in Australia, then it is achievable.I've been going to London for the past couple of years, resting up for a few days before getting my car and caravan. I've looked at the lifestyle that a number of people have there and it doesn't interest me one bit.They may drive a Porsche (which are much cheaper there!), but when I look at their environment and how crowded they are, the roads they drive on and the opportunities to really thrash the Porsche, it doesn't come close to being able to hammer a Porsche all day long in Australia.The same goes for places to camp in . . . . beaches, bush, and so on.I see the opportunities my kids have in Australia and I see what the kids of other people have that I know in London.My kids have a far better quality of life, hands down. Their ability to start a business, learn and grow are more "do-able" here in Australia.In short, nothing worthwhile in life is achieved without sacrifice.When you plan to lose weight, the first week of exercise is tough. You're sore all over . . . . but if you keep on, finally you break thro the barrier and exercise becomes easier and easier and the benefits become more and more achievable. . . . . . and that is just in losing weight.All the other things in life require sacrifice, too, but they are just as rewarding.So . . . . are you going to be one of those people who never quite leaves their "comfort zone"?????Are you going to be one of those who looks back on life and says " . . . if only"That is called "regret"You don't have to live with it.Make a plan and stick to it. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2mindsNoMore Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Thank you Bob! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazzn Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Imagine telling your child that they can trust a police officer if they get lost or need help.This comment struck a cord with me. so far I have not even thought about teaching my daughter (2.5yrs old) about going to the police if something happens. How can I teach my child to find a police man if she was in trouble when I wouldn't even trust going to the police myself. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oosie Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hi In2mindsWe have been in Aus for 6 and 1/2 years, came with one daughter, her husband and grandchild, we gave 2 grandchildren here now. Our daughter is a CA as well in Melbourne. We still have one daughter in South Africa with 2 grandchildren and son in law and I go back every 6 to 8 months to visit. We live in Ballarat, about 100 km from Melbourne my husband is a financial manager here, came when he was 52. I will be in Pretoria (Elarduspark) from the 24th of March until the 10 th of April, if you want to talk about Aus and how we experience it I will be willing to meet for a coffee, we are very happy here but it was not easy, it was still the best decision we made.Linda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2mindsNoMore Posted January 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hi LindaThank you for the offer, I would love to meet up for a coffee. I will pm you my details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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