Neels Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Chzaau,I get that, but I'm equating dollar with dollar earnings vs rand with rand earnings.Vida and Seattle to be honest are more like fast food coffee shops these days compared to places like Tribe, Rosetta, Deluxe etc, and coffee and a muffin + croissant there is R80, sure, sure it's a R100 in Aus, but the minimum wage is $19 an hour, so about 1/2 hour of work, I've got to work more than half an hour to earn my coffee here in middle class, middle position creative job. A visit to the Biscuit Mill on the weekend after a pizza and two beers you're out R150. What about those on minimum wage in SA, I mean to be classed as quote on quote black middle class the monthly income is R4,000.I don't really eat fast food, I cook my own meals and make lunches etc and we live pretty frugal lives, but they are advertising Mac meals / Burger King on the radio and it's R60 a meal now at either for burger, coke, fries. Again R60 is a chunk of change for a takeaway, nasty burger, or maybe it's just me.So as it's been bought up time and time again, I think if you were on the upper end of your income potential in SA it would afford you a better quality of life here, esp. with things that many have become entitled to, but for those in the middle to lower class Aus provides more of an equal opportunity.CheersMattYeah Matt, My friends call the way I explain it the "working man exchange". You take the same guy, doing the same job here in RSA than in Australia. Then he takes one day's wage and buy the same stuff; 1 kg rump steak, 10L 95 octane petrol, a sandwich and coffee for lunch and a 6 pack of beer. Here you pay in Rand and Au$ over there. I bet you, you'll spend at least 10 to 12% more of your wage here in South Africa on the same stuff. So in my view, that's how much more you'll be able to do with your wage in Aussie dollar. I don't know if that makes any sense.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansaPlease Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 My hubby looked at the price of beer on the Coles website and nearly had a heart attack.... $58 for a case and they dont have Castle Light....we have a lot to learn....how exciting, so looking forward to landing next month.That's near the top end. "Normal" lager-type beer is somewhere between $37 and $45. Premium goes up from there. Plenty of lighter beers to keep your husband happy, and the choice is actually so vast it's confusing. Beer is one thing they do very well here. I bought a 6 pack of those Jim Beam and cola mixers to take to a barbie and nearly died when I had to pay R380 rants for them. That was the first and last time.Where on earth did you buy them? That's almost double what they should cost! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heidim Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 PARKS, if you're coming to Brisbane, there's a SA expat shop in North Lakes that sells RSA beer, wine, any alcohol you can think of.... And right next to the expat shop is Springbok foods with Mrs Balls. I need my Mrs Balls for cooking!!! So you can do a once a month trip and stock up on all your RSA booze.It took about a year to stop converting. The first three months drive you nuts though! While waiting for those AUD$ to roll in! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 We figure that converting to rands is a good thing...means we spend less and save more (we have a lot of those 'over my dead body am I paying that' moments)!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurferMan Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Does anybody have some charts that show the price of say, bread, milk, beer, petrol in SA from 2004 to 2014? It would be instructive to overlay that with Aus prices. Im betting the Aus prices are flatter, meaning less jumps. Of course we will ignore the bread and milk price fixing in SAA.....(Ya I said it!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donovan83 Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 My Vida Coffee and Muffin are R50+, parking in the CBD is R12 an hour. I have no idea where you get a R6.00 pancake, but here in the Southern Suburbs at my local cafe it's R60 for French Toast, 2 strips of bacon & topped with a couple rocket leaves. We treated ourselves to a Tappas for 2 at the Chef's Warehouse the other day it was R200 a head with a glass of wine. A bottle of craft beer here is R40-R50 a bottle. At these prices are looking more like Aus prices even when you convert to rand...LOL... those prices are nowhere near Aus prices.I spent $8.50 on a coffee and muffing this morning.Parking in melbourne - "early bird special" - $12 an hour. I saw $8 an hour once somewhere.French toast with bacon here would probably be about $14 to $18.I saw a special - "$34 for 3 tapas!"The cheapest wines I've seen are about $7 a bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreshStart Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 LOL... those prices are nowhere near Aus prices.I spent $8.50 on a coffee and muffing this morning.Parking in melbourne - "early bird special" - $12 an hour. I saw $8 an hour once somewhere.French toast with bacon here would probably be about $14 to $18.I saw a special - "$34 for 3 tapas!"The cheapest wines I've seen are about $7 a bottle.Sigh. Point missed, though it seems Neels got it. I'm comparing rand with rand vs dollar with dollar earnings. Legislated minimum wage here is R15+ rand an hour here: workers, cleaners, informal tradesmen and the like are paid 3-5 times less in SA compare to the USA and up to 10 times less per hour than Aus. So as I shared, if you were in the middle to lower class in SA you'd be in a better position to eat out than in Aus than SA. Your $8.50 muffin and coffee vs my $6.00 muffin in coffee is not a huge difference, yet on my wallet it's harder hitting given my income.CheersMatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansaPlease Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Ahem... Call me juvenile, but I found this hilarious... I spent $8.50 on a coffee and muffing this morning. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnno Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 @Matt, it's convenient to use the lowest wages in SA as a reference point to justifying just how expensive SA is when only getting paid R4,000/PM. I agree and I do not know how those people put food on the table, never mind buy a house. But for people who are immigrating (mostly on some skilled or business visa), I doubt these people are on minimum SA wages and they probably will not be on min wages in Aus either. In fact for skilled and professional people in our circle of family, friends and old work colleagues in SA, I've been hearing the exact opposite. Wages have doublers in the last 10 years. Of course things have become more expensive in SA but restaurants are full (Mugg and Bean during the day is always busy. A family friend of ours owns two of them and he's become pretty wealthy from these businesses.The problem is that the ZAR does not go very far outside of SA so holidaying in Europe, USA, Aus etc is bloody expensive. At roughly 10:1 that $10 coffee and muffin is impossible to swallow.....literally and physically!Just use The Spur menu as a reference.....your eyes will water! A Goodie burger in SA is R68.90 the same meal in Aus is $17.95 (R179.00)and that is still considered good value in Aus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joweni Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 So if I read this correctly-you pay double for a hamburger here in Oz. Well that's OK cos as a lowly school teacher I am earning 3x more in Oz than I was in South Africa ....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronwyn&Co Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) Ahem... Call me juvenile, but I found this hilarious... Yes I think he purposely omitted to spellcheck Sounds like someone got the bargain of the decade.... Edited October 1, 2014 by Bronwyn&Co Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnno Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) So if I read this correctly-you pay double for a hamburger here in Oz. Well that's OK cos as a lowly school teacher I am earning 3x more in Oz than I was in South Africa .......as a school teacher you should know it's a bit more more than double for the same burger in Oz....closer to 3 times more, do the sums Edited October 1, 2014 by Johnno 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreshStart Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 @Matt, it's convenient to use the lowest wages in SA as a reference point to justifying just how expensive SA is when only getting paid R4,000/PM. I agree and I do not know how those people put food on the table, never mind buy a house. But for people who are immigrating (mostly on some skilled or business visa), I doubt these people are on minimum SA wages and they probably will not be on min wages in Aus either. In fact for skilled and professional people in our circle of family, friends and old work colleagues in SA, I've been hearing the exact opposite. Wages have doublers in the last 10 years. Of course things have become more expensive in SA but restaurants are full (Mugg and Bean during the day is always busy. A family friend of ours owns two of them and he's become pretty wealthy from these businesses.The problem is that the ZAR does not go very far outside of SA so holidaying in Europe, USA, Aus etc is bloody expensive. At roughly 10:1 that $10 coffee and muffin is impossible to swallow.....literally and physically!Just use The Spur menu as a reference.....your eyes will water! A Goodie burger in SA is R68.90 the same meal in Aus is $17.95 (R179.00)and that is still considered good value in Aus!Johnno,Thanks, yes, I totally get that, but just wanted to point out what 'middle class' black South Africa looks like in rands and cents. There is all this talk about the growing middle class, but as you said, how on earth do they survive on R4,000 a month.RE those immigrating, I think there are two camps, and going to stick my neck out here. But there are those that have a skill like teaching, and trades like plumbing, electrical etc that are paid much better in Aus than in SA where trades people are often looked down upon. If we are honest how many of our parents suggested we become Doctors, Lawyers or Accountants, to follow the money, because being a trades person isn't seen as a respectable middle class job by many.These trades and skilled folks seem to be doing much better in Aus than they would in SA, time and time again I've read success stories here of how Aus has given them a quality of life they probably couldn't afford back in SA.Now, onto Doctors, Lawyers and Accountants, those jobs are over glorified in SA, when they leave they find they are often stepping down a rung or 3, because historically in SA we've seen those jobs as 'better' or 'elite' compared to trades people. These are the guys that often moan and suffer as they look back at how 'good' SA life was, big houses, cars, maids, au pairs etc and find it hard living in Aus by comparison because Aus is a leveling ground.Also I think age has to be factored in, I'm not sure how old you are, but if I look at those I know in the 20-30's age group in current middle class, white south Africa, most in trade jobs, teaching and at least in my creative circle don't own homes and are just scraping by, where as by this age many of our folks owned homes, cars and were set on a career path.So for them Aus offers more bang for buck and better quality of life.As it's been shared many times before, if you're a millionaire in SA, send your kids to private school, live in gated or secure complex and find yourself disconnected form the world around you, stay, your money and job will afford you a quality of life that Aus can't give you. But you better have deep pockets because you'll need to be able to support your kids, either financially or in having them take over your business as I doubt there is much future for them in the corporate workforce.CheersMatt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronwyn&Co Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Yes I agree Freshstart. It's been discussed many times. For example you might pay $1,45 for a litre of petrol but work in McDonalds in Aus getting $18 per hour.In South Africa that petrol costs - what (I'm out of touch) maybe R14 per litre but you work in McDonalds getting R3000 pm. It's unaffordable for the vast majority. People on the upper end in SA feel the pinch but I don't know how most ordinary people get by (well I do- they catch a taxi & eat a lot of pap). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joweni Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Well if you are so very perdantic Johnno-a bit more than 2 and 1/2 times but then I still get paid 3xmore here than there so to my way of thinking i am still on top and then of course it is safe enough to walk to my favourite burger joint here so I save on petrol and get to work off a few calories (or kilojoules if you prefer!!!!) before I consume some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunnyskies Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 <p>LOL... those prices are nowhere near Aus prices.I spent $8.50 on a coffee and muffing this morning.Parking in melbourne - "early bird special" - $12 an hour. I saw $8 an hour once somewhere.French toast with bacon here would probably be about $14 to $18.I saw a special - "$34 for 3 tapas!"The cheapest wines I've seen are about $7 a bottle.Early bird parking is a daily rate not hourly. Depending on where the car par5is it will cost you between $10 and $23 for the day. Just don't arrive late or it will cost you $23 for an hour capped at about $80 for the day. Hence I'm on the train as I type this.You can get clearskin wine for about $4 a bottle, but no guarantees that your head won't pound in the morning. I find it a bit silly to do comparisons with South African pricing unless you are paying with Rands. Yes Australia is more expensive because everyone earns a living wage. Don't like it don't eat out. That is what we do when we don't feel like eating a pork chop for $37. Although as a family we very seldom eat at restaurants with those prices, and we cook a mean steak on the BBQ. A good Thai/Italian/Chinese/Japanese meal will cost a lot less. Our favourite dumpling bar in Melbourne costs us $80 as a family of 4 and the food is great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funtobeaussiechick Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) Not a good comparison at all.You're quoting world class game parks aimed at tourists who holiday in Africa with Dollars, Pounds and Euro's! Friends of ours are leaving on Friday for a few days camping in the Cederberg, R150 per camp site for a family of 4! I popped out for breakfast this morning complete with ocean views and free parking where I enjoyed a double shot barrista coffee (flat white) for R15.00 (roughly $1.60) and a pancake for R6.00, about AUD70c! My holiday house in Cape Town is a short walk from the beach and it rents out in peak season for R1,500 /day. The equivalent in Dunsborough WA is MANY times more. Our rugby tickets for Newlands last week were R550 each, we looked at going to watch the Boks play in Twickenham next month but with tickets starting at GBP489 (R8,800) per ticket (all sold out) with equivalent seats to what we had at Newlands costing GBP889 I think we'll give it a miss! Anyway you look at it, SA is VERY cheap by comparison! Its not fair to call it very cheap when most of the South African population are earning paltry Rands. Its all relative. I equate it to me buying a $2 2 litre of milk in Oz which if a person is earning $20 an hour is not too bad. Now in SA a person who maybe earns R200 per hour and a 2L milk costs R20. Now tell me how many people in SA actually earn R200 per hour, not that many i can tell you. Here we go again, compare, compare, compare Edited October 1, 2014 by funtobeaussiechick 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansaPlease Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) Yep, a R15 coffee is indeed a huge luxury when you earn R100 a day as a gardener. A gardener in Aus by contrast earns about $20 an hour. That $4 coffee doesn't seem so expensive now. Edited October 1, 2014 by HansaPlease 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurferMan Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 Geez if I convert my day rate to an hourly rate and then convert that to ZAR, if I tried to charge clients that I would never get any work!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeferg1 Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 I totally agree with AFreshStart - my husband is working as a boilermaker here and we would never afford the lifestyle we have here if he was doing that back in RSA. He is currently earning $197 000.00 pa - yes he's on the mines, and yes, it won't last forever, but hell, you make hay while the sun shines. Where in RSA would you earn that as a "mere" boilermaker? We have friends here and back in RSA she was a teacher and he a policeman - here they live in a beachside property and certainly have no money worries - again, what would they be earning in those occupations in South Africa? Nowhere near what they are getting here.I bought my husband a coffee machine for father's day - the (normal) price was $200 - we got it on special for $50 - gotta love Oz sales - so just a couple of hours work. My mother in law wanted to buy the same machine but it was going for over R2000...... now that's a huge chunk out of a middle class salary. Converting, the price is pretty much the same, but it's the percentage of your salary that, in my opinion, makes Oz so much more affordable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurferMan Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 I also love the book sales here, $5 for any book. We gorge on these sales. Books that normally cost way over $100. I have more disposable income in Aus than I ever had in SA. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadEnoughofJuju Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 I have been told by many of the locals that if you pay more than half of the normal advertised price then you paid too much. I love Aussie sales which are real sales.Talking about disposable income. In South Africa I bought a Nintendo Wii by accident (long story) and could simply not afford games or extra consoles or gadgets while we were still in RSA simply because it was just too expensive and there wasn't any cash left at the end of the month for anything extra. Since we have been here I have bought several extra controllers, games and associated gadgets as we actually have extra money at the end of the month. I checked online last night to see if I could get 2 wii remotes with built in motion plus in South Africa (and get our friends to bring them with) cheaper than here and I nearly fell over backwards when I saw what they cost. A new remote (without protective cover and nunchuck) was advertised for anywhere between R600 and R800, I can get a pack here with remote, protective cover and nunchuck for under $30, in fact I saw a set of two with all the bells and whistles advertised on ebay for $29.95 including shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurferMan Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 Yeah, and online shopping here rocks, way ahead. I am also enjoying having money at the end of the month. I can also afford to buy the kids things I would not have in SA. And that on a fat income. Crysis 3 for PS3...R300 on Kalahari!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chzaau Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 Yup, houses are nice and cheap as well, it very easy to live in Oz, no worries mate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreshStart Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) Yup, houses are nice and cheap as well, it very easy to live in Oz, no worries mate.No different from New York, London, Hong Kong & Toyko, the latter of which is more expensive than any Aus City per m2. Globally The Economist has shared its earmarked at least 12 countries of the 19 they have been following that show signs of over inflation.SA is not exempt from the ridiculous property market. We bought our first flat 10 years ago for R325,000, we sold it 4 years later for R690,000, we then bought our house for R1,4 million and have just sold it for R2,6 million, again 4 years later... how many 30+ year olds in this current economic climate in SA can afford that? I can assure you that our salaries have not increased to keep up with that kind of inflation.So, yip, housing in SA is also nice and cheap, no worries mate... Edited October 2, 2014 by AFreshStart 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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