Diesel Vs Petrol suv/bakkie running costs

[SurferMan]

Hi Craig01,

thanks for sharing matey, sharing the love is always good! Would love to go toe to toe with you Toy-Yota boois and my Amarok/Touareg! LOLOLOL

[Bob]

I guess if you take a trip to any Outback town, you'll pretty well see what the local Aussies are cruising around in. . . . . mostly Toyota Land Cruisers and Nissan Patrols.

You don't see Outback people driving Porsche Cayennes, VW Touaregs or other European 4WDs, and there is a reason for this.

Most 4WDs in the Outback of Australia are diesel, with a handful of cars driven on the bitumen only being petrol, like Ford Falcons and Holdens.

Their cars are simple and functional as their first priority and wide mag wheels come low down on the priority scale, and lots of chrome is non-existent.

Their cars have to be tough, because it's a tough country out there and they can't afford to walk 200 kms back to town by driving an unreliable set of wheels.

If you take a city car out for a weekend bash in the bush, then you don't need to worry about what Outback people drive much because it's not going to affect you greatly.

Diesels are great for towing a caravan or heavy load.

My Nissan Patrol 4.2 diesel loses around 30% fuel economy pulling my 2.2 ton caravan around Australia.

My Subaru Forester 2.5 turbo petrol loses 50% fuel economy pulling my 1.4 ton caravan around Britain and Europe.

Petrol cars are great to drive with rapid acceleration, but they are more race horse than cart horse, so don't load them up too much.

Diesel engines can take hard work 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year and still be there in the morning when you need them. Just look at all the heavy transports crossing Australia pulling 60 to 70 ton loads.

100% of them have diesel engines.

Petrol motors are good for around town and short trips. Their fuel economy can be good if you're only using a small engine under 2 litres.

Your choice of a Toyota Prado diesel is a good choice if you are pulling a camper trailer or small caravan around Australia on holidays, or crossing Australia from one side to the other, a 5 000 km trip one way.

Lastly, if you're going out in the bush, let your tyres down to around 25 psi on dirt / gravel roads because you'll more likely to shred your tyres with the sharp stones if your are inflated too much (40 psi) as you'd have them for driving on bitumen roads.

When you hit the sand, stop the car, select four wheel drive and lock your hubs, if manual, and spend 5 minutes letting your tyres down to around 18 psi.

With the lower inflation in your tyres, they tend to bulge out more giving you a greater "footprint" that doesn't sink in the sand so much. Here, if you do lots of sand driving, it's best to buy a narrower tyre rather than a wide tyre for city driving.

That's because you create a ripple effect of sand immediately in front of your tyre as you drive thro loose sand, much like a bow wave created by a boat as it pushes thro the water, and the wider the tyre, the wider the ripple of sand = more energy to push thro the sand.

Your ideal is get a long footprint front to back to give most traction on the loose stuff, and that's where a narrower tyre with the air pressure deflated to around 18 psi . . . . even 15 psi in tough stuff . . . . is best.

Don't deflate below 10 psi. I've seen tyres come off the rim because there wasn't enough air inside to keep it on with all the push and pull involved.

Have fun out there.

Enjoy!

Edited December 28, 2014 by Bob

[SurferMan]

Howdy Bob,

Mostly agree with you. Diesels are chosen for haulage for two reasons, fuel economy and torque. Dont agree with you on the longevity of diesels over petrol. That is a pure myth. A diesel has a longer perceived lifespan based primarily on its lower revs. I have owned >22 cars already in my life and done millions of km on both tar and offroad. Main reason for their good life span=good service intervals and OEM parts. I drive the hell out of my cars but always service them to spec, and do 2x as many oil/filter changes as is specified.

Agree on the front to back tyre footprint, you always know youre talking to an idiot when they tell you that by deflating a tyre it gets "wider" and not longer as you correctly pointed out. Area=force/pressure. These are the geniuses that spend a lot of time digging. The width of the tyre has no scientific effect on latent kinetic energy to force rolling resistance.

One of the reasons that Toyotas and Nissans dominate is also due to FMA (first mover advantage) VW are slowly pushing into that space but I doubt they will dominate like the 1st two will. I would have put a LC200 in the driveway but I am a fan of VW, having owned around 12 of them already.

When the Rok gets passed to my son, I will look at a LC, I just dont like their lumbering onroad. Prefer the Gen I Cayennes....

[KalahariHarry]

@ Surfer - Bliksem that is big at 150mm wider than hilux, and no packing space now in garage :-) I see one day you will join the toy - yota boois :-)

@ Graig01 - Yes I have checked out pradopoint to see what kinds of tyres the prado freaks are running :-) As I have the stock dunlop grandtrek AT20's on, a very well loved HT tyre (only 17000km's on them). So I'm in no hurry to upgrade, I have to look at tures that will fit under rear wheel cover so max size 265/70/17's i think.

Trev

[Craig01]

Surferman, that is fighting talk right there

... do I feel a 4x4 roadtrip/camping trip/fishing trip/whatever the excuse trip coming up Surferman, KalahariHarry et al?

the Grandtreks are a very underrated tyre. I will not be replacing mine until the tread demands it. I would probably go with Bridgestone AT697s when the time is right but don't see the point in doing it until I have to, the Grandtreks do just as good a job as far as I am concerned.The BF Goodrich is too hard a tyre for my liking but choosing and justifying a brand of tyre over another is a debate on it's own !

Had AT694s on my Defender 110 in South Africa and AT697's on my Cruiser here in Oz - a touch soft but considering the 95% tar vs 5% offroad that I do, I opted for the 'safer' tyre on tar - especially in wet weather

[SurferMan]

Hmm, I am also running HT's on my truck and will be changing for a 95/5 tyre, due to mostly tar and sand when I venture offroad. I reckon us boois should do a road trip....

Be nice to show you guys how a real german does it! :ilikeit: I ran BFs in SA and didnt like them much. I am a fan of Pirelli and Michelin. I also like the Mickey T's and Coopers. The stock HT's on my Rok dont give me confidence in sharp cornering and the wet. Althought the handling is amazing, its no match for the Touareg. I am strongly thinking of geeting me a 2008/9 V10 and tuning it up to 300Kw and 1200Nm, just in case I need to tow 747's or restart the planet if it stops spinning. :jester:

or maybe one of those lekker expedition Cayennes or Touaregs....yummy. Vehicular porn.

I need the bathroom...

[KalahariHarry]

@surfer those do look very nice indeed.

@ craig01I see your in brisbane. Are you perhaps craig from xpertenergy? From west beach whose parents stay in monte vista, ct????

trev

[SurferMan]

Hi Bob,

Here is a link to a good petrol vs diesel debate thingie.

http://www.outbackcrossing.com.au/FourWheelDrive/Petrol_or_Diesel_4WD.shtml

Enjoy!

[SurferMan]

Great article for you blokes.

http://www.outbackcrossing.com.au/FourWheelDrive/Used4WD/Showdown_Nissan_Patrol_vs_Toyota_LandCruiser.shtml

[KalahariHarry]

Interesting reading Surfer!!

[SurferMan]

Yes and the best bit is that its true!

Cant wait for Season 22 of Top Gear. I reckon I'm going to take my Rok up to Lancelin in the next few days and give it a go up there on aired down tyres and see how she goes. I'll take some pics and share with you blokes. Trev, where are you at now mate?

[KalahariHarry]

Hi Surfer,

I'm 50 kms north of brissie. Burpengary.

T

[Craig01]

Hey Trevor ... the same Craig yes....howzit going? You are from Plattekloof / Panorama right?

[KalahariHarry]

Correct Craig, thats me.

Mom still lives in Welgelegen/Panorama and she is coming over end Jan for a couple months.

As You may have seen we skipped the ACT and ended up in the-Queens-Land anyway!!!

We are looking to buy some land up here, and I am exploring the viability of setting up a mini-solar farm, pls pm me with your input on the viability thereof?

Trev

[SurferMan]

Trev,

Keep me in mind, I am working on a ground breaking new app for utilities that will make you more monoey than your current forecasts will.

[KalahariHarry]

Nice one Surfer, when you can send me info with concept - once you "can" divulge info :-)

T

[Caz]

@KalahariHarry, I am not personally a member of this group but you may wish to check it out for some 4x4 info & get togethers in Brissie.

Afrikaans 4x4 Brisbane

https://www.facebook.com/groups/485840538117174/

[SurferMan]

trev,

I would have to kill you after I told you, LOLOLOL. I will tell you once I have patented the idea. Not that I dont trust you, but its such a radical but simple idea it will make me enough to retire the moment it hits the public....

[Bob]

Hi Bob,

Here is a link to a good petrol vs diesel debate thingie.

http://www.outbackcrossing.com.au/FourWheelDrive/Petrol_or_Diesel_4WD.shtml

Enjoy!

Thanks for that article. I guess I have to agree with the bloke who wrote it that crossing Australia with a load . . . in my case, a 2.2 ton caravan . . . is best done with a diesel engine vehicle.

Most of the old retired people (the "grey nomads") buy rigs that are diesel powered and you'll see hundreds of thousands of them heading north into the tropics each wintertime, camping out in remote spots miles away from towns or on a secluded beach some place, just enjoying the warm weather while cold winds and lots of rain lash the southern cities of Australia.

Getting out into the Outback and camping for months on end there is also "diesel territory".

I once had occasion to need to cross a deep creek to make it in to Alice Springs. My petrol engined car, at the time, simply would have died mid stream once the water came up over the bonnet and flooded the engine shorting out the electrics.

My Nissan Patrol with a snorkel fitted, would have simply ploughed through, water all over the engine regardless.

I find the driving, camping, bush and vehicles that people tend to drive quite different in Australia compared to Europe where the preference is weighted in favour of smaller cars that drive on the sniff of an oily rag, pulling light loads only.

[SurferMan]

Haha good one Bob,

Your comment on the petrol vs diesel wading only holds true if your electrical mods are out of harms way, for eg if you had a dual battery setup and plowed in, you would suffer the same fate as a petrol. Take into account the piezo electric injectors, the power to the fuel pump, the EGT sensors, the Air Mass/Flow sensors (they are hugely different the two are) and if they short they will throw the EMS into a right royal fit. Most times you will be lucky to go into "limp mode"

So it totally depends on if youre running a GU/GD Nissan etc, Even the old Toyota 2L/2Y had some electrics in it. That said, I will say that a diesel has a better chance at a river crossing than a petrol, bar ONE thing, water ingestion. Do that in a petrol, and you get to live. Do that in a diesel, toss the motor baby, youre done, thanks for coming out.

All the VW's have triple insulation so worrying about the wade is moot for the most part. That said, being cocky or arrogant has been the undoing of more offroaders than anything else I reckon!

[SurferMan]

Bob have you chipped your Patrol mate? Take a look at the latest 4WD Action mag for a guys who has boosted his Patrol nicely!

[Bob]

No mate. I bought a 4.2 diesel motor Patrol back in 2006.

I shelved out $60 000 cash . . . . . well a bank cheque, actually, which is as good as . . . . and drove away with my Nissan 4.2 diesel Patrol.

I could have saved $7 000 at the time, buying a four cylinder 3.0 litre diesel engine, but I didn't like the idea of them being highly tweaked with 11 micro sensors for the engine management.

On the old 4.2 there are none. The exhaust gas recirculation unit, I blanked off, so that isn't an issue for me nowadays.

If I go thro high water, or across the desert with lots of sandstorms, I haven't got sensitive computer chips all over the place, likely to die on me and leave me in "limp mode" if I'm lucky.

The 4.2 is untweaked. It doesn't kick out quite as many horsepower / kilowatts as a highly tweaked 3.0 litre motor, but the torque is great.

From 1 500 revs, right thro to 3 000 revs, the torque from the motor is 90% + all the way . . . . . just what I need to overtake a long road train out in the bush while pulling a 2 ton caravan, or negotiating a steep sand-dune on the Border Track with Sth Aust and Victoria.

I am an old bloke, used to driving HD Holdens in his day, so computer and chips are definitely out for me.

If you can't fix it with a set of spanners and a screwdriver, it's no good for me and what I want to do over the next few years.

My young bloke (son) who owns his own motor garage, has his eye on my 4.2 as they stopped importing them into Australia after 2006.

If you can get an 80 Series Toyota or 100 Series Toyota both with 4.2 diesel engines, they will be worth a lot of cash in years to come as they are sought after. Dead easy to maintain and keep on the road. On the 80 Series, you need to change the timing belt every 100 000 kms . . . . an easy job.

I've had blokes ask me if I want to sell my 4.2 diesel Patrol as they are no longer available brand new. There is no timing belt to worry about . . . . gears all the way!

No way would I sell my Patrol. Part of the family now.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Bob

[SurferMan]

Hear you loud n clear mate. My Rok will go to my son, hehehee. I also want to get my mitts on a squeaky clean 100 Cruiser, the old mechanical type. I also prefer gear driven timing, my Touareg had gear driven timing not belt, which was awesome. (Its basically a tweaked VR6 motor) Solid as a rock.

Fully get the aversion to sensors n crap. Great if youre in the metro, not so good in the Simmo or elsewhere as you say.

Edited January 11, 2015 by SurferMan

[KalahariHarry]

Hi Gents.

Ordered for Prado:

ARB deluxe front bar

Hayman reese towbar

160lt compressor - I will build this into a toolbox like carry case so its ready to use as you plug it is. A very handy way to use a compressor.

Within the next month also a GME 3540 hidden unit CB radio- the under dash hidden unit with controls on hand piece(mic).

Thats it for now. But will be adding to those soon I Am sure.

Best place to buy a good quality led lightbar???

Trev

[KalahariHarry]

All Fitted would love to post a pic to show you Gents...eish!