Help Please with Talented and Gifted and Extension Programs

[AndreaL]

In normal life a HD would be 85% and above I believe in ICAS world it is awarded to the top 1% and D to the top 10% (wow I just checked so he did do well!) http://www.eaa.unsw.edu.au/icas/awards

No the schools do not prepare the kids for ICAS but the format is quite similar to NAPLAN which they get in years 3,5,7,9.............so I think that is why it wasn't such a biggie to him.

[McCabes]

Andrea, don't write your daughter off re being gifted because of personality... A lot of gifted girls (especially) will pull in on themselves because they know they are different and it sets the scene for a lot of internal conflict. It's hard enough being smarter, but to be smarter and know you are smarter - especially at an age when all you want is to be like everyone else..? http://www.sengifted.org/archives/articles/social-and-emotional-issues-faced-by-gifted-girls-in-elementary-and-secondary-school

Have you heard of Dabrowski's theory of overexcitabilities?
http://www.stephanietolan.com/dabrowskis.htm
It's basically a theory that says being gifted is like having an overexcited system, brain/capacity for academic learning included (simplifying majorly here), but that being gifted can also cause everything else to be overexcitable - your senses, emotions, etc. One of my friends thinks my son falls more under this than under the Sensory Processing Disorder bracket. There is quite a big overlap, but while he's bright I really wouldn't consider him gifted.

But, am mentioning the overexcitabilities/SPD because maybe your daughter falls into this? I had major social anxiety as a teen, and still do sometimes, especially in a group (magnified when it's a large group and/or I don't know the people well), and only really could handle 1 close friend at a time. Turns out I hit a bunch of the criteria for sensory processing disorder stuff, and part of that involves not knowing how to handle social situations - to me it is just such a major sensory overload, looking at all those people, trying to read them, listening to what they're saying, processing, trying to work out what they're saying while maybe having to deal with people bumping into you... light - just everything seems to go on hyperdrive - thinking about how to reply (I often end up stuttering because I'm still hung up on all the other stuff...). I will often go somewhere, then get so caught up in all this that I won't remember one thing about the place we were at, because all my attention was on the people and trying to handle that.

But... or so... maybe it would be worth checking in with a OT and seeing if they might be able to help?

I'm probably reading too much into it.. and I'm sorry about that. But it has helped me just to know that I go on overload, and need to breathe and not hyperfocus on stuff. Sometimes it helps just to know there's something going on, and you can cut yourself some slack.

Heidi... I'm allergic to latex. but thanks

Edited November 11, 2013 by McCabes

[chzaau]

Just out of interest, not to attack anybody but some of the "smartest" people the world refers to have actually been drop outs or people who displayed very little educational brightness to start with. A few that come to mind have been Albert Einstein, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs. Another person I have great respect for is Sir Allen Sugar.

I would really suggest watching the TED Sir Ken Robinson talks on how the education system kills the creativity, these two talks are some of the top talks ever done on TED and a real eye opener. I have had the opportunity to hear this gent speak live and he is incredible.

[McCabes]

chzaau, that's not insulting, that's the truth. A lot of gifted kids lose interest very early on in school - imagine being forced to recite the alphabet when you taught yourself to read at age 2.5, and being made to show your working on 24 +33 when that feels like 1 + 1 to an adult. It's cruel. I'm not at all surprised a lot of kids just switch off and bump along until they can get out, or until they refuse to bump along and just walk out.

Our schools - scratch that - no school system has ever catered for gifted folk.

I LOVE TEDtalks, and Sir Ken Robinson is my hero. I wish people would take his advice to heart. In this day an age when anything - any answer to the stuff they learn in school, can be found in seconds online, we should be focussing on building other skills in our kids. Problem solving, creative thinking... how to break stuff down into manageable tasks, and how to find the information you need to take action on whatever those tasks may be (guess this is part of problem solving really). We don't need people who can regurgitate every US president or answer questions on the periodic table when they could easily just look it up...

I'm not saying nothing they teach is useful, but we should very seriously be reconsidering the POINT of school and what we're trying to get out of it... we started out thinking we were training kids for factory jobs - they had to sit still, listen well and follow instructions really well, and cope with doing the same thing day in, day out for years - get to school, sit down, do what you're told, eat when you're told, go home, sleep, repeat...

Then we started training kids to be office workers - basically the same, maybe with a little more tolerance for creativity...

Now...? who knows where the world is heading, economically, business-wise... So we keep plugging the kids into this dysfunctional set-up, hoping that they will be prepared for the environment they walk into when they walk out of school at the end of their 12 years...

I'm not sure they will be though.

Just want to add that I think a lot of gifted kids fall through the cracks completely, because they're not necessarily academically gifted, but gifted in other areas. A lot of importance has been placed on academic brilliance especially, so it's the kind of giftedness that is most recognised.

I know a little boy who has been playing golf since he was 2 - he was swinging his mom's clubs backward (he's left handed) and hitting the ball every time at that age.

He just turned five and came second in a tournament last week - to a 12 year old...

So - what if his mom never played gold? if he'd never had that kind of exposure.

It makes you wonder how many kids have an extraordinary talent that they just never had the chance to explore.

I think it was Sir Ken who asked why we place this huge importance on math and reading. Why isn't dancing or art just as important???

I can only agree.

Edited November 11, 2013 by McCabes

[Nishi]

While we are this topic.

My eldest daughter is from a gifted school in SA.

How on earth do I get her placed in the correct grade when she starts school in auss next year?

She's in grade 4 now and from my calculations because she's an October just turned 10 baby she would be in year 5 next year?

We took the year 5 naplan stuff to her school and they ticked off everything on the list. So she's done year 5 then?

Help please I am so lost.

[WattFamilySydney]

While we are this topic.

My eldest daughter is from a gifted school in SA.

How on earth do I get her placed in the correct grade when she starts school in auss next year?

She's in grade 4 now and from my calculations because she's an October just turned 10 baby she would be in year 5 next year?

We took the year 5 naplan stuff to her school and they ticked off everything on the list. So she's done year 5 then?

Help please I am so lost.

Hey Nishi-I think your best bet is to contact the schools that you are interested in as she can be put on an accelerated program whereby she can be put in a higher grade. Where were you able to get the forms from?

[Nishi]

The naplan I got the books while I was there two weeks ago and downloaded some sample tests.

[McCabes]

I would keep all the tests showing her level of achievement, especially the naplan. Scan it in, with any IQ/psyche assessments you may have had done, then attach that to any mails you send through to prospective schools. Ask them for guidance or what process you will need to follow in order to ensure your daughter is put into the appropriate level class. I think if you can get more info on what process each school follows and how receptive they are it should give you a good idea of which school/s to look at more closely when you get there, or which to put her name down for.

Good luck, please let us know how it goes.

Edited November 14, 2013 by McCabes

[AndreaL]

While we are this topic.

My eldest daughter is from a gifted school in SA.

How on earth do I get her placed in the correct grade when she starts school in auss next year?

She's in grade 4 now and from my calculations because she's an October just turned 10 baby she would be in year 5 next year?

We took the year 5 naplan stuff to her school and they ticked off everything on the list. So she's done year 5 then?

Help please I am so lost.

Hi Nishi

The school will decide what grade she goes in, usually children are placed in the age appropriate year, so she will likely be in year 5 next year.

I don't understand when you say the school ticked everything off on the list, only the authorities here in Australia can mark the NAPLAN tests and no that does not mean she has done year 5, NAPLAN testing is but a small component of testing throughout the year and only used in years 3, 5, 7, and 9. It is used as a method of identifying where students sit in comparison to their cohort, their state and the country as a whole.

Try not to worry too much, you will find the schools good and communication with parents excellent.

The naplan I got the books while I was there two weeks ago and downloaded some sample tests.

I'm sorry, I really don't understand, what books are you referring to...............and the tests change every time.

Some parents don't believe in NAPLAN and their kids don't write them, and NAPLAN isn't used in the overall 'mark' a child receives for the year in their report.

[Nishi]

Okay I am learning fast I thought naplan was like the year end exams we do here. Now I feel like a dunce.

So they will assess her in the new year then?

I am happy with grade 5 she's a little girl in a new country I don't want to stress her out too much.

[AndreaL]

Good thinking Nishi

Better that she be in the age appropriate grade and be able to adapt socially, BTW, I am not sure about private schools (WattFamilySydney) but even a very bright child would most likely be kept in the right age grade and be given extension classes, rather than skip grades as far as I know.

[AndreaL]

I want to share a little story about my own gifted and talented muppet!

I went to pick Mr 8 up on Wednesday and his class teacher informed me that he and his friend (or his wingman as I refer to him) had been naughty in their extension class.............they are in year 3 and go to a special reading program with a ahndful of kids from year4,5 and 6.

Essentially they are doing year 6 work, anyway, bright as they are I think that socially/emotionally they are still quite immature.

The teacher said they had been talking and not listening to the reading teacher. The class teacher told me that Adam's friend does the talking, but Adam needs to learn to be more assertive and block him out or say no when he does the wrong thing.

One issue I have, is that if they have been chatting, rather than working for most of the term, why have I not been told before this? There is no push factor in the extension program, the kids are let know that they are privileged to be able to do this, but if they don't want to they don't have to.....................and to be honest, I think that a 12 year old might have better self control than an 8 year old who might need a reminder now and then to get back on track.

Anyway,Adam's friend has been pulled out of the extension class by his Mum as a punishment.............the funny thing is that I think this smart little boy did misbehave( he pulled faces at the teacher) exactly for this reason.

Last year he went from spelling all his spelling words correctly, to only getting a handful right...............if kids get all their words right they get an extra 10 words as extension, this little imp figured that he would cut his workload by pretending to not know his words.

Adam went to the extension class and didn't act up, he is very shy and wouldn't without his wingman. We had "the talk" about respect for people and listening to the teacher and about not bowing to peer pressure and being able to tell on his friend if he is distracting him....................but the kids have a social code of not dobbing on their mates.

Ah, what to do, it's all good and well having a bright kid, but he doesn't have the confidence to speak up. He also told me that he gets nervous at parade in case he gets called up to get a certificate................." It's not nice to have to get up in front of 500 people" he tells me.

As a parent, this is exactly the problem I had with my daughter, from year 6, she started to purposely do badly so that she would not get awarded certificates and have to stand up in front of everyone.......................anyway, I have given Adam a dose of reality, I told him (truthfully) that every child in the class gets a certificate at least once in the year, no matter what their ability, so doing badly on purpose will not change this, and tried to give him some techniques for focussing on one person, or the wall at the front of assembly etc.

Sigh! If only I could get him to understand how very capable and easy he has it because he is bright, compared to how some kids struggle, but it seems school is as it always has been and is about fitting in........

[McCabes]

Andrea, is there a drama club or like - I don't know know how else to put this but like a modelling agency - somewhere he can go to learn the tricks of dealing with eyes all being on you or coping up on a stage and that kind of thing?

Maybe if you can find something like public speaking or debating that he's into, his interest in it will overcome his fear of being on stage, or having everyone look at him.

Or even dancing or music if he seems interested? there would be concerts and competitions and gradings for those as well.

He is doing fantastically to be doing year 6 work just in year 3 - you must be so proud!

I'm not sure all teachers/schools get the point of extension. Year 6 work in year 3 is good. But 10 extra words after you've just spelt a bunch of others 100% correctly? What's the point. He's obviously good at spelling. Why not give him an advanced book with interesting and challenging words on NASA projects or dinosaurs (gotta love some of those) or detailing the inner workings of a car? That would broaden his vocabulary and extend his knowledge without forcing him to do more of the same stuff he can already do standing on his head...?

Sorry... I probably just don't know enough about the extension program but I think they could try something different here. Like set up a lego table and offer him 10 minutes at the lego table to build whatever he likes if he gets all his work done quickly/correctly. Friends in the USA told me their son's teacher did this for about the same age and it worked fantastically.

Can't you ask that they rather just read the names out and then rather give the certificates to the class teachers to hand out? It doesn't seem like the kids appreciate the act of going up - they might deal better with just having names read out and being able to stay seated?